Group Wants to Develop National Mall in D.C.

[Placebo]

Nobody can spend much money at the National Mall, and some people think that's a problem.

The Mall isn't a shopping center — it's the broad tract of turf that stretches from the Capitol to the Lincoln Memorial. Smithsonian museums line the sides for part of its length.

A private group wants to develop the Mall for more public use. Now it's a site for the odd softball game and an occasional demonstration — it was the site of Martin Luther King's famous "I have a dream" speech — as well as a prime destination for millions of tourists.

The National Coalition to Save Our Mall, which will report on its plans Thursday, wants to pursue the idea of Maj. Pierre L'Enfant, the designer of the capital city, who described his plan in a letter to George Washington.

The Mall should be, L'Enfant wrote, a "place of general resort" lined by theaters, assembly halls, academies and "all sort of place(s) as may be attractive to the learned and afford diversion to the idle."

That sounds like the lower part of the Champs-Elysees in Paris, which developed much later. L'Enfant envisioned the Mall in Washington as such an avenue but that is not being considered now. There are already three broad thoroughfares alongside it: Pennsylvania, Constitution and Independence Avenues.

"Mostly we want to make it livelier and more friendly," said Judy Feldman, an art historian who heads the coalition. She pointed out that there are few benches, little shelter from rain and not many restrooms or restaurants when museums are closed.

full article may be found here: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=8&u=/ap/20041208/ap_on_re_us/national_mall

[fudge stripe cookays]

1. Oh for Christ's sake....

I don't believe this.

FSC

[Karenina]

2. Ya want some FREEDOM FRIES wit dat?

:evilgrin:

[Sandpiper]

3. Yes I've always thought the National Mall needed

More tacky, crappy, business establishments.

I think we should build a national McDonalds between the Capitol and Washington Monument, and a national Wal Mart on the other side.

[punpirate]

4. Given the behavior of this country's people...

... in the last fifty years, I suppose a national monument to consumerism would be appropriate.... *sigh*

Also would take care of that pesky problem of protestors clogging up the view--I'm sure there are many in Congress who would think it much better to see only McDonald's arches and Taco Bell signs....

[Goathead]

5. Martin Luther King

There is a granite slab on the spot where Martin Luther King stood and made the "I have a dream..." speech. It is up on the Lincoln Memorial steps and you can look out and see the whole D.C. Mall. I didn't know that was there the last time I visited the Lincoln Memorial, I just happened upon it. I was more moved by that granite slab than I was with the whole of the Lincoln Memorial and all it's grandeur.
The inscription:

"I Have A Dream
Martin Luther King Jr.
The March On Washington
For Jobs And Freedom
August 28, 1963"

[noamnety]

6. I have a better idea

We could drill for oil in the middle of it, or perhaps try strip mining it.

[ima_sinnic]

8. how about paving it over and charging for parking? (nt)

[TheCentepedeShoes]

23. There are derricks

on the grounds of the Oklahoma state capitol.

[Nay]

7. Oh. for God's sake. You mean there is one place where

the effing CONSUMER can't indulge his consumerism? What a shock. Gotta fix that.

As a frequenter of the Mall in DC, I say leave it the fuck alone. It, the monuments on it, are conducive to thought about what this country used to mean to its CITIZENS and does not need to pander to its consumers.

[piece sine]

11. Wait! Before you have a friggin' stroke....

...actually read the word of the article. What is being discussed is more outdoor cultural events, festivals and celebratory use of public lands for the benefit of ordinary PEOPLE. Nobody's building a damn WalMart!!! The responses in this thread remind me of the most knee-jerk, conservative "fly off the handle" reactionary tirades...but anger for what -- kiteflying contests? Why can't people have more fun on the lawn of the great Mall?!?! Jeeze.......

[Placebo]

15. That's what I thought...

I don't think they want to build a shopping mall.

[Chalco]

36. We already have

outdoor events on the mall. There are festivals there, jusic, demonstrations, etc. It all happens there now. They must be talking about putting up buildings that they can charge entry for.

[LizW]

28. That more restrooms thing is not a bad idea

We were roaming around one morning before everything was open and my husband had a sudden emergency. He begged and a nice security guard let him go into the Freer Gallery. This, of course led to all sorts of bad family jokes, like, "Do you feel "freer" now?" and "What did you think it was, the Loo-vre?"

Har-har. :P

[piece sine]

30. Those wise cracks are pretty good!

I laughed out loud. Yah know, more restrooms are all part of it. But there's little-to-no threat to open green space.

[Florida_Geek]

9. Interesting

I was looking up Judy Feldman and found a link with good pictures of the "secret" Navy project.

http://cryptome.org/usndc-eyeball.htm

[Xithras]

10. There's nothing wrong with a few restaurants and gift shops

It would just need to be handled the same way many communities manage development in historic districts...all designs should be approved by a preservation committee in advance to ensure that they aren't gaudy and that they blend in with their surroundings.

The Mall is a public place, not a monument, and services should be available to assist visitors.

[Anakin Skywalker]

24. Just Not Fast Food "Restaurants", Please!

Don't give in to The Shrub's Economy.

[Xithras]

29. If people want it, and if the decor is in keeping, why not?

I'll agree that a 12 foot tall pair of golden arches towering over the Smithsonian is unacceptable, but if Burger King wanted to build a fast food place on the mall, and if both the architecture and the theme of the building were in keeping with everything else on the Mall, why not?

Personally, I don't see McDonalds forking over the cash to build a beautifully landscaped granite and marble drive-thru anytime soon, so I doubt that type of restaraunt will be clamoring for a spot there anyway.

[VegasWolf]

38. It's faux granite! With that ambulant population, Mickey D would

spend a few bucks. Two or three Pizza Huts would
be a familiar site too.

[northzax]

41. well, where to put it?

this might have been a good idea before they built all those pesky smithsonaisn museums, but there are no longer and undeveloped lots on the Mall, with the completion of American Indian. It's kinda funny that a group that claims to be dedicated to preserving the open space of the Mall would be so interested in cluttering it up with facilities.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. This group fought the WWII memorial. They are good.

The National Coalition to Save Our Mall, and Judy Feldman, are great people. They want the best for the Mall and our nation's image.
They fought like dogs to stop the FACIST WWII memorial.

http://www.savethemall.org/

[Xithras]

13. Facist WWII memorial?

How so?

[piece sine]

14. The Americans who died in WW II aren't fascists.

and the memorial honoring their service (in high Art Deco style) is exactly architectural venacular appropriate for this period of history. You disgrace the memory of people who died to keep you free.

[Placebo]

16. From http://www.savethemall.org/...

Quote:

The National World War II Memorial

The National Coalition to Save Our Mall joins the Nation in honoring those who served in war action and on the home front in WW II, especially those who sacrificed their lives. The Coalition never questioned whether WWII veterans should be honored. Indeed, four of the Coalition’s eight-member Board of Directors are WWII veterans. Rather, the Coalition asked -- Is this the right place? Is this the right image? Is this the right message? And was it right for Congress to override its own Commemorative Works Act (intended to bring some restraint and order to development of the National Mall) when it legislatively prohibited any judicial challenge to the memorial. The Coalition’s attempts to have these questions thoughtfully considered were thwarted by all three branches of the government, including the US Supreme Court.

The WW II Memorial now divides and blocks the grand open space that was the Mall area between the Washington Monument and the Lincoln Memorial. The Coalition opposed this location because it required destruction of the historic Rainbow Pool, part of the 1901-1902 McMillan Plan for the Mall. The Coalition opposed this placement because it severed — both physically and symbolically -- the historic, uninterrupted connection of open space and vista between the monuments to Presidents Washington and Lincoln. And it opposed the memorial in this place because the Memorial plaza’s martial and funerary symbols are better suited to Arlington National Cemetery than to the Mall’s open space dedicated to American founding principles. The massive WW II memorial dwarfs the simple and contemplative memorial for the Signers of the Declaration of Independence in nearby Constitution Gardens, and it encroaches on the Lincoln Memorial grounds and Reflecting Pool.

[brainshrub]

27. I agree 100%

It's an eyesore.

[silverpatronus]

45. i agree...

the wwii memorial really is an eyesore, and it would have worked much better in arlington.

[Sandpiper]

17. The WWII Memorial is an eyesore

That looks like it was designed by Albert Speer.

[Hosnon]

20. Fascist? A little explanation on that statement would help or is it just

lip service?

[Hosnon]

21. I would love it if it was a cultural center for the nation-but be careful

[Dem2theMax]

33. So glad they lost the fight.

So glad my Father and the millions of other men who fought in WWII were finally given the honor they have deserved for many a year. In addition to the fact that it honors ALL people who did their part for the war effort. Those who 'fought' on the home front, by working in factories, etc., as well as those who fought overseas.

As for calling it 'fascist', I think you owe a whole hell of a lot of veterans an apology.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

34. You need to know what you are talking about first

The opposition to the memorial was against the DESIGN, and SITING, NOT the veterans.
Go to the website and learn something. http://www.savethemall.org/wwii/index.html

[Dem2theMax]

48. Wish I had a scanner so I could show you all the information I have

here at home on the Memorial. My personal money went to help pay for it as well. I can't say what else I want to say because I'd be banned.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

51. and I wish I could scan my brain for you

but to synopsise- I am a registered architect, working now for 20 years, and that's after 5 years of undergraduate study. I have a vast body of knowledge on the subject of design, which includes history.

This design was both inappropriate and in the wrong place, and all the money which Wal-Mart and all of you supporters raised to pay for it can't change those facts. Sorry, that's the truth- sometimes people make bad purchases, and this memorial is a lemon. But please read northzax' post again, he makes the case better than I, and captures well the sentiment of the opposition.

[piece sine]

54. Yikes!

you're the worst architect in the world!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

56. Oh and what is your area of expertise?

Please share....

[northzax]

37. um, I don't owe anyone an apoology

the people who built a monument that was straight out of 'conquering hero nationalism' owe all the veterans an apology. have you actually seen the monument? been to the monument? stood on the steps of Lincoln, where Dr. King gave his speech, and Marian Anderson sang, and Abbie Hoffman spoke against war and imagined the crowds stretching to the end of sight united in protest against an unjust system? Isn't that what they were fighting for? well that will never happen again, they built the WWII monument (the fact that it's a monument and not a memorial is patently offensive as well, but that's another story) right in the way. One of the last great open public spaces in the country, stuck between the memorials to our two greatest presidents, is gone.

Have you seen the monument? again, looked at it? anything look familiar? eagles, wreaths and arches. hmm. reminds me a lot of the triumphal arches of Napoleon, and the monuments to conquest raised by totalitarian states to celebrate their accomplishments. Go to the middle of the monument, on a rainy tuesday afternoon, and you feel nothing. THere is no context, there is no sorrow for the dead, even hte gold star wall needs a textual explanation to get it's point across. You are surrounded by arches, the symbol of triumph, wreaths, the symbol of victory, and eagles, the symbol of power. There is no sadness, no reflection. And then, on the sunniest, most beautiful day imaginable, your wedding day, your birthday, the day you won powerball, whatever makes you happy, go to Vietnam, or Korea, and listen to the overpowering sadness about the brutality of war. More Americans died in WWII than in Korea and Vietnam combined, but each of these memrials forces you to feel that loss. WWII does not. And that, quite frankly, is an insult to my great uncle, killed at the Battle of the Bulge at the age of 19.

Go see another monument to triumph, the Marine Corps Memorial, with the great triumph of raising the flag on top of Mt. Suribachi, a triumph of will power, effort and sacrifice. A proud moment for the Corps. Where does it rest? not in a park, not in a city square, but in the graveyard of those who died there, symbolically saying, 'this was possible because of those who died' It is a proud monument, but a sad one as well.

Oh, you want one more thing? check out the lead contracter on the construction, owned by IG Faber. Yes, the same IG faber who used Jews as slave labour to build munitions to kill US soldiers during WWII. Who's insulting who? learn of what you speak before your reflex.

The monument evokes fascism and totalitarianism. it is in it's very nature. This is not a monument to the dead, it is a monument to victory. Democracies do not build monuments to vicotry. Our entire society is a monument to the victory of the US Forces in WWII. The fact we are all here is a monument to victory. There is more true emotion in the small memorials scattered around the US in every town listing the dead from that town in the war than there is in this entire monstrosity. This was not built to truely honor the dead, it was built to honor the living, to assuage the guilt of those who came later who never lived up to the mythology they created about their parents. I celebrate that victory every time I tell my grandfather (Submarine Service) that I love him. We do not need to celebrate victory, the war was just, we were just, and we prevailed. Every breath you take celebrates that fact. Let us not celebrate the living with cold stone and bronze, let us celebrate them with our lives. Instead, let us only build monuments to those that paid the ultimate price, the ones that did not get to enjoy the greatest economic boom in world history, the ones who did not get to use he GI Bill, or housing stipends or the like because they didn't come home. The ones that don't have grandchildren to thank them by living their lives well, because they never got to have children. Nations that do not reember the horror of war, can never really appreciate the sacrifice of those who fought one. This monument glorifies war. and that sickens me.

[Dem2theMax]

49. Again, if I say what I'm feeling, I'll be banned.

And you aren't worth it.

[northzax]

50. oh, that's a nice amusing way out

ON EDIT: you know what? forget all this stuff, if you have a problem with my personal opinion on the monument, please simply take a moment and refute it. Tell us what, exactly, you disagree with. Tell us what it make you feel (I've already said it does nothing for me) tell us why you feel this particular choice of architecture was a good choice for the monument. If you think a monument to victory is appropriate, tell us why. If you think hiring a contractor that used slave labour for the other side during the war was appropriate, tell us why. There is no need to make it into a personal attack, comment on the reasons you disagree with my statements, which are, after all, my own opinion. Don't attack me, attack my comments. You say you contributed money for the building of this monument, that's great, why? Are you happy with it? does it meet all your expectations? Could it be improved? I would actually like to hear a reasoned defense of this particular structure. please? I await your response.

thus ends the edit. I have left the remainder, my original post, for the record.


when all else fails, blame your inability to formulate a sentance within the rules. very mysterious.

I can't imagine that there is anything you can say that would get you banned, unless you are incapable of comprehending what I just wrote. If there is something in my opposition to a hollow, unemotional, non-contextual and triumphant monument, to the first monument to victory that our nation has ever built, that inspires you to banning behaviour, then maybe you should reread it.

Have you stood in the middle of the memorial? (I was actually there yesterday, and have been there probably 50 times, in all weather, with all crowds. I assume you have as well. And therefore you know of the emotions produced by these monuments.

I lost family in WWII, and family returned safely. I would have preferred a monument to the ones that died, not to the ones that lived. And the great majority of people, not just esthete artiste types, who see this monument feel that it isi a monument to victory. This is our Arc d'Triomph. You may not like that, but it is, in fact, reality.

Notice that there is no monument to victory in the Civil War? only to the dead. No monument to victory in WWI? only to the dead. Why a monument to victory for this war?

[Dem2theMax]

52. PM in your box. nt.

[Bridget Burke]

53. Please, share it with us all.

Two uncles & my father were veterans of that war--8th Air Force. My uncles went on to careers in the Air Force (one commissioned, one non-com). They're both long gone. Age took its toll--along with the smoking & drinking that got them through the war & the long peace.

My father left the Air Force but was called back up for the Cold War. There's a memorial at the site in the far-north where his plane hit a mountain. (Where's the memorial for the Cold War? Ask Bush Sr.)

And I don't see how that ugly building in a totally unsuitable place would have helped any of them.

[Dem2theMax]

58. No. It's personal. I hope you can understand. nt.

[piece sine]

55. did YOU see the WW II Memorial?????

Everyone one of your observations is absolutely incorrect. I don't think You've been there!

[Shakespeare]

59. northzax, I love you.

Beautifully said, and captures exactly the reasons I, too, was against the construction of that monstrosity. None of us is suggesting they don't deserve a memorial, but not THAT memorial, and absolutely not in THAT location. I lived in DC until a few years ago, and cringe to think what they've done to the mall.

I have two all-time favorite memories of the mall: The first was watching people cross-country ski across the mall after the big blizzard in January 1996--what a kick! The second was sitting in a hot, dusty tent during the folklife festival in 97 or 98 with maybe 20 other people, watching Beausoleil play and standing about 10 feet away from Michael Doucet.

DC is a great town (or it was before the bushies moved in).

[liberal N proud]

18. Lets put up Bible vending stations at each corner

In between we could put televangilist bars and prayer cafes.

[Megahurtz]

19. Possibly all of the income generated by this mall

will be funnelled directly to the White House.

Government money laundering perhaps?

Probably just another front (you know Cheney and his shell corporations)

[wuushew]

22. This is the dumbest thing ever

Union Station and its asociated shops are only a few blocks via foot or metro from the Mall.

[grasswire]

25. very true.....

there's shopping just a couple of blocks away in every direction. The Union Station shopping is excellent, the MUSEUM SHOPS are world class shopping opportunities, the shops at National Place are close by, and gee....restaurants are everywhere.

[silverpatronus]

46. the mall is REALLY LONG...

and getting to the only metro stop on it from either end is a decent walk. the other two close stops (arlington and l'enfant plaza) are a pretty decent walk from the mall too. arlington is all the way across the lincoln bridge. i wouldn't disagree with a few more bathrooms, a tasteful cafe or two on the edges and a few more benches, but all TASTEFUL and only a few.

[seemunkee]

26. Open, green, quiet

Don't change it.
We need to stop building monuments for every thing and leave it alone. I like going down to the museums and walking across the mall. Walk a couple of blocks and you will find all the restaurants you need.

[northzax]

39. you are correct

I think the greatest tribute to America is the fact that our great common open space is actually that, open space, used for everything. The fact that I can play softball in the shadow of the Washington Monument, while familes have picnics and tourists rest for a while in the shade, tells me something is going right. it is not a "Park" used for decoration, it is a 'park' used for recreation. that sets us apart from most world capitals, and by gum, i like it that way.

[donheld]

31. ANYTHING for a buck

this is really obscene. Commercialize everything why don't we.

[HuckleB]

32. Why can't anyone leave anything alone?

The mall rocks. It's a beautiful space. This is ridiculous.

[VegasWolf]

35. Buy a Big Mac after touring the Museum of natural History. n/t

[northzax]

40. er, you can already do this

there is a McDonald's in American History.

[VegasWolf]

42. The dino burger? BTW, we have them in our hospital. n/t

[RaRa]

43. Sigh, I used play on those "odd softabll games"

back in the early Clinton years. It was so cool how there would be dozens of games going on...shouting out to the tourists walking under the trees to "watch out!" before a home run would smack them on the head. We would sometimes play the White House politicos...next to the Washington Monumnet...but it had the feel of a small town to it...

[northzax]

44. it is a small town

DC is a very small town

[RaRa]

47. I know. very much...

I was trying to convey the irony I felt when I was there.

[Eurobabe]

57. build underground for cripes sake

stop destroying the vistas!!

[VegasWolf]

60. and a small, but tasteful, WallMart. n/t