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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:36 AM
Original message
Texas man executed on disproved forensics
CORSICANA, Texas -- Strapped to a gurney in Texas' death chamber earlier this year, just moments from his execution for setting a fire that killed his three daughters, Cameron Todd Willingham declared his innocence one last time.
"I am an innocent man, convicted of a crime I did not commit," Willingham said angrily. "I have been persecuted for 12 years for something I did not do."

While Texas authorities dismissed his protests, a Tribune investigation of his case shows that Willingham was prosecuted and convicted based primarily on arson theories that have since been repudiated by scientific advances. According to four fire experts consulted by the Tribune, the original investigation was flawed and it is even possible the fire was accidental.
...
"There's nothing to suggest to any reasonable arson investigator that this was an arson fire," said Hurst, a Cambridge University-educated chemist who has investigated scores of fires in his career. "It was just a fire."

Ryland, chief of the Effie Fire Department and a former fire instructor at Louisiana State University, said that, in his workshop, he tried to re-create the conditions the original fire investigators described.
When he could not, he said, it "made me sick to think this guy was executed based on this investigation. ... They executed this guy and they've just got no idea--at least not scientifically--if he set the fire, or if the fire was even intentionally set."

Even Edward Cheever, one of the state deputy fire marshals who had assisted in the original investigation of the 1991 fire, acknowledged that Hurst's criticism was valid.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/na/chi-0412090169dec09,0,7244555.story?coll=chi-news-hed
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's okay. God will take care of him.
Those are the words of my aunt ringing in my ear. I'm disgusted.
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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah, God Will Take Care Of The Prosecutors As Well
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. hmmm....texas executing innocent man
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 11:46 AM by ooglymoogly
i have a hunch we will see more of that nationwide now that texas and the moral majors pretty much run the country now....so it may be comming to a theater near you soon...or an open stadium.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
50. And they will switch the method to AK47 at point blank.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. That's when you drop a brick on her foot and tell her god'll fix that too
And don't worry none, you won't have a limp in heaven.

Sorry you had to hear that from her; I hope it didn't shatter any personal illusions about a close family member.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Oh no. They were shattered years ago when she stood in my
kitchen and told me she was convinced I was going to hell because I didn't accept Jesus as my lord and savior nor do I believe scripture is literal and infallible.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Awww c'mon, be a sport!
They got a conviction and a death sentence, and according to our Supreme Court, that's good enough to strap someone down. So what if the guy was actually factually innocent, or if a crime hadn't even been committed?

How did the loony segment accrue so much power?
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Kin you say "Jeeeezus"?
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 12:24 PM by PurityOfEssence
I knew that you could.

People who believe in an afterlife have less respect for life. Yes, that's a flat-out inflammatory statement, but it's by definition true: they think there's something more, therefore the earthly dalliance doesn't matter as much to those of us who think this is all there is. Couple this with a forgiving god who'll give you a pass for your evil if you just suck up to him enough and an overriding personal need to get in good with they guy, and it's a recipe for selfish brutality. Thus, Texas.

Yep, it's a whole 'nother country.
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. Well, here is one person who believes in the afterlife, and I'm
scared shitless for THIS life and the planet and all the people living on it. Could you at least put in a disclaimer that not ALL people who believe in God are the horrid people you say they are?
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. hmmm -- texas executing someone on flimsy evidence?
i'm shocked, i'm awed.

well, not so much really.
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. Grrr. This is why I can't support the death penalty
Especially in cases that seem so heinous (killing a policeman, killing your family, etc.) There is so much pressure on prosecutors to get a conviction in these cases.

I once read a book by one of those famous profilers. He interviewed serial killers to come up with one of the first profiles of the type. Later in the book, he came out strongly in favor of the death penalty, which was not in force when he had been doing his interviewing, which made these people available for him to study, but that didn't seem to enter into the equation.

My only exception would be a convicted murderer who proved to be dangerous to other life even while incarcerated (those Aryan Nation guys, Thomas Capano who put a hit out on his mistress from prison, that sort of thing)

Sorry, I know I should take this over to the issues forum.
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ernstbass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is the culture of life
that chimpie keeps referring to. No abortion - no peace for Terri Schiavo - you can only die by execution!!!
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well, it is Texas. Prosecutors can never be wrong. Screws up
their chance for political office.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Bible they swear they believe (in selected matters) says don't do it!
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 12:22 PM by Judi Lynn
Something like Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.

What a staggering shame. This one is goddawful, but then they all are.

Was curious about the man they killed, here's his photo, and it's not when he was at his best, you can be sure!

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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. Wild West Justice
Hang 'em High, Hang 'em Fast.

I'm not at all famiiar with this case. Was Mr. Willingham white or one of "those people"?
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm gonna be sick
I can't think of a worse way to die.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I can think of several
And Bush has inflicted all of them on someone.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. I read this in the Trib this morning and it has altered my view of the DP
I no longer support the DP under any circumstances.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Wow.
Thanks, Walt. I haven't supported it since I was a teenager and it's nice to hear from someone else who feels the same. I don't support it under any circumstances, either.

It' simply state-sanctioned murder. And it's too easy to make mistakes. But death penalty mistakes are permanent.

It's Texas. We seem to be big on killing people here.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I supported the Death Penalty until this morning on the train
I read the article in full. The guy was no saint, but they didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt he killed his daughters. I sincerely believe the state murdered a man in thie instance for no reason whatsoever other than for political gain of the prosecutor.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. It's happened before.
You mean you've never heard about Texas and our laws (passed under repukes, of course) concerning executing the mentally retarded?

There's a story in an old issue of Texas Monthly that has been covered in a book called the I Hate Republicans Reader in which a man who had an IQ that made him mentally retarded was about to be put to death. They let him have the usual last meal, telling him he could have anything. He ordered his favorite dessert, chocolate pudding. When the guards came back to escort him to his death, they found he hadn't touched his chocolate pudding. When they asked him why, he said he was saving it for later because it's his favorite. They tried to explain to him that he wasn't going to get to eat it later, but he didn't understand.

Apparently one of the guards was so disturbed by that he resigned a few days later.

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. yup; the case of Canadian Stanley Faulder was one instance
Stan Faulder was executed in Texas in 1999, after a bought-and-paid-for trial and despite the fact that his Vienna Convention rights had been blatantly violated (the basis on which USAmerican and international figures like Madeleine Albright, and the Canadian government, sought to have the execution stayed).

Loads of links for anyone interested:
http://www.ccadp.org/stanleyfaulder.htm

http://ccadp.org/macleansfaulder.htm

Faulder's family and supporters tell a much different tale. Both his trials, they say, were riddled with legal irregularities. The first time, in 1977, he was convicted on the strength of a confession he gave to police -- but which was later thrown out by an Appeal Court. The second time, in 1981, Faulder was sent away on the basis of testimony by Summers, whose real name was Lynda McCann, and her common-law husband, Ernie. Lynda McCann was given immunity in return for her testimony, and both she and Ernie were offered money by Phillips's family.

The victim's son, a wealthy oilman named Jack Phillips, spent $155,000 hiring private prosecutors to pursue the case. Faulder's medical history -- including a childhood brain injury -- was not taken into account when he was sentenced.

Instead, he was classified as a "severe sociopath" by a notorious pro-execution psychiatrist known in Texas as "Doctor Death." Finally, he was never put in touch with Canadian authorities, something that should have been done under the international agreement known as the Vienna Convention. Instead, he was sent to Huntsville to await the outcome of his appeals against his mandated execution.


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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. Welcome to the Light! (nt)
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. it`s texas what does anyone expect
a fair trial? ya right-money talks and the poor die. welcome to the future of america-texas
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think it was John Cornyn, US Senator and former AG of Texas, who argued
or had an argument presented before the Supreme Court claiming that it was acceptable to execute an innocent person as long as that person had received a fair trail.

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A Simple Game Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Please tell me you are not serious!
How can anyone present such a flawed argument and sleep at night.

This is wrong on so many levels that I find it hard to believe anyone could have the nerve to do it.

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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. The Texas AG (I think it was Cornyn) did indeed argue this point. n/t
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Cornyn could be a SCOTUS justice one day, too
He was on the Texas Supreme Court, he was the AG of Texas, and he's a loyal Bush fellow who broke a lot of laws to keep Bush out of jail as governor. Bush owes him big.

He's perfect for the job, too. He's stupid, he's a groper (I know people who work for him), and he's a religious nut with no integrity in any way. He's on Bush's short list, I'll bet.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
43. Wall, dammit, ya gotter kill sumbody! If ya cain't kill the body what ...
... rilly done it, then ya jist gotter git sumbody else ...
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. SHIT!!!
This is the single most important reason why I could never support the death penalty, even in the worst cases, because our exalted justice system may be wrong.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. I bet this has happened
SO MANY TIMES. :-(
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. The death penalty everywhere is little more than lynching
There is no consistency to it, and that's not just in Texas. It is arbitrary, and almost always racist. Whether you live or die depends more on the quality of your attorney than on guilt or innocence. A black man can be executed for a crime for which a white guy might get second degree murder, or even manslaughter, if not freed altogether. Do a Google on Gary Graham one day. He was a bad man who told others he had killed six people, but it's unlikely he killed the person he was convicted of killing. Cops consider that a make-up execution. On the other hand, Henry Lee Lucas was convicted of killing one woman, then later proved he wasn't even in the state. He confessed to over a hundred murders, some of them undeniably him. His sentence was commuted to life by GW Bush. Same basic situation as Graham, multiplied by ten. Bush spared the white guy, let the black guy die.

It's just a lynching system. Society wants blood, and it doesn't matter whose. The less a part of the mainstream you are, the better your blood looks. DUers do it, too. Read the threads on the SUV woman.

People in America equate "justice" with "revenge." That's why our society is so violent. We have no sense of decency anymore.
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paritom Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. Very true
And some can still be saved:
http://www.savekevincooper.org
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
25. Florida, we have a problem...
Holton becomes the second person to be released from Florida's death row in about a year. Juan Melendez walked out of prison a free man last January after he won a new trial and prosecutors declined to try him again. In December 2000, DNA evidence cleared death row inmate Frank Lee Smith of a 1985 murder. But it was too late for Smith, who had died of cancer 11 months earlier.

Defense attorney McClain is a member of Florida attorneys' group called Capital Collateral Regional Counsel-North, which contends that Florida's capital punishment system is "plagued by error."

According to CCRC-N, Holton is the 23rd Florida death row inmate to be exonerated since 1973 and the fourth "in the last 25 months."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/24/death.row.release/index.html
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KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:32 PM
Original message
Is the German guy still on death row?
I heard about this case a while ago, which had a German citizen (can't remember his name) sitting on death row in Florida for the alleged killing of his girlfriend, while they were on vacation in Florida. IIRC, a lot of evidence pointed at the mans innocence, but of course, that was not enough to get him cleared.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. Executed the wrong man...and the killer went free
SONUVABITCH! And I know people (some of my own relatives for instance) that would say that this is still OK. They would say with a straight fucking face "thats alright, I am sure this guy they executed probably has done something wrong in the past". No shit.

Don

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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. Hey, it's Texas! Weve got plenty of extra people
to execute or stay on death row or simply harass if we want to. And as long as the trial was "fair", what's the big deal? It's not as if we are running out of people to kill.
(Sarcasm off)

What happened in Illinois, the bias in applying capital punishment, and stories like this have made me change my mind about capital punishment. I used to be for it in cases of serial killings and repeat offenders only, but I can't even legitimately support that now.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. "in cases of serial killlings"....little known fact!
During Bush's governorship, he "stayed" one execution--which eventually proceeded.

He did, however, commute one prisoner's sentence to Life. Therefore, serial killer Henry Lee Lucas died in prison of natural causes.

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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. What's even more nauseating...
are some of the people down here who when they hear of a death penalty case being disputed elsewhere in the US say "Ship them down here, we know what to do with them"...I figure the next step will be to change the TX state flag so it will have a picture of an electric chair.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I've heard loads of Texans say that.
Had a neighbor once who proposed the state of Texas could make money by taking the "worst of the worst" from every state and putting them to death, "assembly line style." She laughed after she said it. I wanted to throw up on her shoes.

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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. I've heard plenty of non-Texans
declare "at least the crime was committed in Texas where they know what to do with these murderers" when discussing the postpartum psychosis among those religious-brainwashed psychotic women who killed their kids. It takes forever to through to them about what mental illness is, especially for those women, who are hearing voices, etc.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
35. WWJE. Who would jesus execute. n/t
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BlueCollar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
38. Takes 12 Texas citizens to convict
nuff said...we're screwed
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samtob Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
39. I would read this before
jumping on the "innocent man" band wagon. There is much more to this story than the forensics, good or bad.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/acrobat/2004-12/15310514.PDF

I am going to have to read more to make up my mind.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. I don't have to
as I am against the death penalty in all cases, even clear, proven guilt. But I'll look at it anyway. Just making the point that there are people who are against it unconditionally, like myself.

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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. I read it. There's not anything more than bad forensics and worse assumpti
They decided he didn't act sad enough over his children's deaths, so they killed him. That's basically it. They decided he was guilty, so they told an arson investigator to prove it, and then got a bunch of bogus "he shoulda acted different" testimony. Once the bogus forensic evidence was discounted, there was nothing but speculation.

That alone should have led to a retrial.

As for determining whether he is guilty or innocent, we can't do that from this distance. The point is that he was convicted on false evidence. That's all.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
44. Burn Baby Burn.
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 09:19 PM by Jack_DeLeon
we dont need no water let the motherfucker burn.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
46. Bush doesn't give a damn
Bush sent a clear message he doesn't care if they fry some folks that were falsely accused when he appointed Paul G. Cassell as 10th Circuit Judge in Utah.

Cassell testifed before Congress that the risk of an innocent person being put to death is outweighed by the benefits that capital punishment has in our society. He argued "in virtually all moral problems in which we sense a conflict between justice and utility, we are prepared to concede that there is some point at which utility will take precedence."
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. WTF? eom
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. You can read about Cassell here
http://www.independentjudiciary.com/nominees/nominee.cfm?NomineeID=24

"The Utah Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers board of directors voted unanimously, nine to zero, to oppose Cassell's nomination."

He was confirmed anyway. Of course.
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AngryWhiteLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
47. Ahhh...Texas. Land of stupid Xtian fundy cowboy-justice shitheads.
Too bad, we can't reverse the results of the Mexican-American war...the MAJORITY (read NOT all) of Texans are racist, homophobe, Xtian fundy, DUMBASSES.

I wonder if the jury members realize that they are DAMNED to their mythical Hell for KILLING AN INNOCENT!

JB
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
48. Texas is the murderer. eom
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
51. Charge Hair Boy Rick Perry with Murder
It's about time. They knew about the exculpatory evidence, they knew it was valid since their own expert, Mr. Cheever, admitted as much, and they executed the man anyway. In addition, charge every judge who allowed this to proceed. Fuck them. They are murderers.
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