MoveOn to Democratic Party: 'We Own It'

[Rose Siding]

WASHINGTON - Liberal powerhouse MoveOn has a message for the "professional election losers" who run the Democratic Party: "We bought it, we own it, we're going to take it back."

A scathing e-mail from the head of MoveOn's political action committee to the group's supporters on Thursday targets outgoing Democratic National Committee (news - web sites) chairman Terry McAuliffe as a tool of corporate donors who alienated both traditional and progressive Democrats.

"For years, the party has been led by elite Washington insiders who are closer to corporate lobbyists than they are to the Democratic base," said the e-mail from MoveOn PAC's Eli Pariser. "But we can't afford four more years of leadership by a consulting class of professional election losers."

Under McAuliffe's leadership, the message said, the party coddled the same corporate donors that fund Republicans to bring in money at the expense of vision and integrity.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041209/ap_on_el_ge/democrats_critics

Here's a snip from the e-mail:

MoveOn includes Republicans, Greens, and independents. But all of us who are struggling for health care, clean air, decent jobs, and a sane foreign policy can agree on one thing: we're better off with a vibrant, populist Democratic Party that's strong enough to challenge the extreme-right Republican leadership.

Why haven't we had one? Under outgoing DNC chair Terry McAuliffe, the Party cozied up to many of the same corporate donors that fund the Republicans -- drug companies, HMO's, media conglomerates, big banks, polluting industries. The result was watered down, play-it-safe politics that kept the money flowing but alienated traditional Democrats as well as reform-minded independents in search of vision and integrity. And so the Party lost ground.

But in 2004, something incredible happened: hundreds of thousands of small contributors gave millions and millions of dollars and changed the way politics works forever. New we have an opportunity to birth a new Democratic Party -- a Party of the people that's funded by the people and that fights for the people. Tell your state Party leaders that you want a DNC chair who will use this new grassroots energy to catapult us to victory at:

[joeunderdog]

1. Dem to MoveOn, "They stole it."

How come you didn't notice?

[Fridays Child]

2. Both sides are true. They did steal it but our leaders also sold us out.

And I wholeheartedly support the spirit of MoveOn's position.

[kurtyboy]

70. What? They stole what we sold to them????

NT

[blondeatlast]

92. Love the graphic in your sig line! nt

[Spiffarino]

3. That's almost beside the point

Sure the bastards stole it. The bigger problem is that the Democratic Party has been sliding rightward for years. Dean's right; the DNC has been turning into "Republican-Lite" and it's killing us.

It's time we stand on principle and not on who's the biggest fundraiser. The donations to the DNC, DCCC and DSCC were astronomical this year not because of corporate fatcats, but because we - DUers perhaps more than others - ponied up for democracy. The DNC promptly took that money and squandered it on their typical play-it-safe Bob Shrum campaign and caused us to lose ground big time.

I firmly believe if the Dems had a vision and a strong forward-looking message, we would have had so many votes that Rove couldn't have stolen it without being caught. The election wouldn't have even been close.

[mistertrickster]

6. Yes, that's so right. If we're going to go down, let's at least go down

fighting for what's right and what we believe in.

Not, "I believe pretty much the same as Bush does except I'm more reasonable about it."

[prairierose]

19. Hear, Hear, n/t

[Snivi Yllom]

29. there was no accountability for all the time and effort donated to the DNC

and that's why a BIG BIG BIG change is coming to the DNC

[Upfront]

33. Doubt it

The stop Dean and people who agree with him effort is in full swing. Hope I am wrong and you are right.

[Just Me]

50. Who cares what the DNC does? We'll just forge forward without it!!!

The DNC can either get with the freakin' program or get the hell outta' the way!!!

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jmcgowanjm]

32. CNN exit poll 1:15am and then 6:15am postelection day

There is no way that the Repubs can explain where
he got 8 million more votes than 2000.

Coups have always been a prominent part of the
American political scene. Teddy Roosevelt, Calvin
Coolidge, Lyndon Johnson, Gerald Ford, and possibly
Harry Truman all took office as the result of coups just in the
last century. Richard Nixon appears to have done so by
violently eliminating the
competition.
        Just because they are not recorded as coups in our
history books doesn't mean that they didn't occur. And
rest assured that when the official history of the current
'election' is written, the Bush coup will not be recorded for
what
it was either. As everyone knows, conspiracies don't exist in
this country; things just sort of happen.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/bush2.htm

[6th Borough]

87. Do you consider FDR's death a coup, or Truman's victory over Dewey rigged

I'm not attacking you in any way; I'm curious as to which event you consider fraudulent (or fatal)...are you referring to Truman's midterm replacement of the deceased FDR or the Truman/Dewey election?

[buddysmellgood]

63. There is such a thing a probable cause. Show your friends the

Conyers letter to Blackwell. Ask them to answer any of the questions with something better than a "oops" or "Well that's just a glitch." If they persist ask them "Don't you want to live in a democracy?" Then there is always the "Why do you hate democracy?" line. It kills them because they so love to ask "Why do you libs hate America?"

[blondeatlast]

93. The MSM is the problem.

Read "The Republican Noise Machine" by David Brock, who can hardly be called a wacko leftie.

[The Judged]

44. "They stole it," because the DNC & DLC did not do their jobs.

There was clearly a grass roots movement in this country that was unprecedented in voter turnout, and Kerry received more votes for president than every president in the history of this nation, including "W," except for "W's" reported RE-ELECTION to president votes, which is mired in election fraud controversies that are dismissed by MSM that instead report partisan lip service and opinion as fact in the absence of actual journalistic effort to report both the truth and the facts that Americans deserve to know.

What was missing was an election system that was pro-democracy and that ensured all eligible voters that they could vote and that their votes would be counted correctly for the candidates that they chose.

Also, what was missing was vote integrity, vote verifiability, and election officials accountability to the people of their states rather than some notion that we see judges claiming ever since Election Day 2004, that only candidates that had a direct stake in the election and that could demonstrate damages to the court could then have a court listen to and evaluate whether or not there is just cause to even contemplate election fraud or irregularities and expedite a verification of the vote by audit and hand recount.

Finally, what was missing was the DNC & DLC getting their jobs done in advance of this past election to be sure that their constituents were not only registered, but that they would have a reasonable and equal protection under the laws of our nation to cast their votes without intimidation, subjective election procedures and conditions, or wrongful vote denial, and on voting devices that not only would give a receipt, but that could be actually verified to produce accurate vote counts in support of every election tally for every elected official.

[jmcgowanjm]

48. Nice, Judged. Like the DNC were crypto-Republicans

http://www.counterpunch.org/nader12082004.html

[6th Borough]

88. Add timely to your final paragraph.

I'd love to see some a comparison of the average time spent waiting to vote in rural and exurban areas vs. urban/dense suburban precincts.

There are many methods with which to disenfranchise a segment of the electorate.

[blondeatlast]

94. Precisely, and the thing is, it's been happening for years. nt

[johnfunk]

83. "...stole" it? "STOLE" IT? Hey, Terry Mac...

... you didn't even want to listen to the party rank and file. MoveOn.org did.

Y'know what I hate? Professional politicians who claim to be for the little guy, but are in the pocket of big business. People like George w. Bush. And Dick Cheney. And Tom DeLay. And Terry McAuliffe.

Got that, Terry?

I'd be happy with Simon Rosenberg or Howard Dean replacing you, Terry. But y'want to know the truth? I'd be even happier with Eli Pariser as DNC chair. He did something you failed to do -- mobilize the party rank and file.

Move on, Terry. You're over!

[Sterling]

4. Nice, I may have to start unhating MoveOn now.

Well see where this goes but it's a good sign.

[EFerrari]

28. With you

Where is MoveOn? They're too smart not to know what happened. They've had a month to rest up and they're STILL dark.

(Shut up, negative me.)


During the whole first (hopefully last) Bush tenure, I worked with a bunch of 527s. MoveOn was the smartest, the quickest, the best. I'm so disappointed in their disappearing act.

And it doesn't matter if they're trying to be careful. You don't recruit a zillion people, ask for their time, money,creativity and then ignore them if things go wrong. Not cool, and am afraid will really have a stifling effect on the first-time or rare voters that we managed to turn out this year.

[Sterling]

51. I have serious issues with the way Move On operates.

I stuck my neck out and hurried a project together that they needed done in a rush. If I would not have come through it would not have happened, period. This project involved me facilitating a shoot for a famous director for an ad they did in their 10 weeks campaign.

They promised to pay for the gear and crew in a specific time frame. As soon as the project had been done the project director informed me that they would have to wait about a month or more to pay the huge rental budget and crew until they "approved" the work that had been done.

When I complained to the project director she hung up on me and refused to address the issue. I could have sued the shit out of them but did not out of common cause with them but they really left their asses hanging out if I had decided to hold them accountable.

I had called in a lot of favors and put my day job on the line. They made me look like an idiot to my bosses and were incredibly rude about the whole thing.

It's sad because they are one of the groups I would like to support the most but some of them have some serious ego problems and feel it is OK to burn people who help them. To this day every time I read about something they are doing I half feel like I want them to succeed and half wonder why the hell I would support people with such low ethics and regard for honoring their commitments.

[mistertrickster]

69. Yeah, that's bad. Even big corporate types follow a set of ethics

AMONG THEMSELVES. I wonder if part of the problem was just the wild schedule of trying to do as much as possible at the last minute.

They did finally pay up, didn't they?

They aren't going to get much co-operation long term if they hurt the people who are trying to help them, that's for sure.

[Sterling]

95. It was a little of bit being disorganized and a lot unreasonable

and dishonorable. It was a case of a project director making promises they had no idea if they could keep and not giving a fuck about honoring them when they got what they wanted.

It was really sad and caused a lot of drama for people who had gone out of their way to help them.

Eventually the money was paid but not soon enough to avoid late fees and cause hardship to people on the crew.

[Sterling]

98. bottom line is....

If they do the right thing I will support them in spite of assholish behavior.

[mistertrickster]

5. This is great. We can't take back our country until we take back our

party.

Kerry lost the election in my mind when a reporter asked him "are you a liberal?" and he said, "labels don't matter."

That's the same line Dukkakis used when he was asked the same question in 1988. It didn't work then. It's not working now.

Democrats have to stand for something and they have to stand up for people and they have to stand against the right-wing agenda.

We can't do that if we're the other wing of the war and welfare for the rich party.

He should have said, "Look, if a liberal is someone who wants clean air instead of subsidies for polluters, if a liberal is someone who thinks every child in America regardless of race, religion, or wealth deserves a free quality education, deserves free first rate health care, deserves economic opportunities, and safe neighborhoods, if a liberal believes that our government should stop rewarding corporations for polluting and tax evasion and fraud and outsourcing jobs and stealing from electric ratepayers in California and stealing worker's pensions, then YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I'M A LIBERAL."

That's how you do it. You don't dance around the answer like you're embarrassed about what you are . . .

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. LOVE THIS QUOTE!!

"Look, if a liberal is someone who wants clean air instead of subsidies for polluters, if a liberal is someone who thinks every child in America regardless of race, religion, or wealth deserves a free quality education, deserves free first rate health care, deserves economic opportunities, and safe neighborhoods, if a liberal believes that our government should stop rewarding corporations for polluting and tax evasion and fraud and outsourcing jobs and stealing from electric ratepayers in California and stealing worker's pensions, then YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I'M A LIBERAL."

[ElectroPrincess]

64. Yes, I'm also proud to be a liberal ...

Wake up folks. Those who only wish to describe themselves as "Progressives" are IMHO "Liberals who don't want to be shammed by the connotations that have been applied by the republican hacks."

Let's not slink away or use other labels to describe ourselves, but instead - fight the RW noise machine to reclaim the good name of our LIBERAL political philosophy.

[intheflow]

7. Finally!

It's nice to see MoveOn regrow some huevos. I hope the DNC is quaking in their fat-cat boots.

[MsMagnificent]

8. WOO HOO!

" a consulting class of professional election losers."

It's funny, yet sad at the same time.

Thank God SOMEBODY said it, though!

[RegexReader]

42. BINGO! We have a winner

[Child_Of_Isis]

74. That was my favorite line. n/t

[tilsammans]

9. Excellent!

And don't forget to vote on the Yahoo story!
"Its current average rating is 4.37 with 57 vote(s)."

[SoiledEarthLink]

10. Does this mean Eli Pariser for DNC Chair?

Is he running?

[WhiteTara]

18. I don't think so, but Howard Dean is! eom

[stevedeshazer]

12. I'm Steve DeShazer

And I approve this message BIG TIME.

[seriousstan]

13. Where can I find the e-mail. Anyone with a link?

Thanks

[NashVegas]

17. full text

Dear MoveOn member,

Who will lead the Democratic Party? The answer may come as soon as this weekend, when the state Democratic Party leaders gather to discuss who should chair the Democratic National Committee (DNC) for the next four years.1 The election for chair is rarely competitive. But this year, with the race wide open, we have the chance to elect a leader who will reconnect the Democratic Party with its constituents -- us.

For years, the Party has been lead by elite Washington insiders who are closer to corporate lobbyists than they are to the Democratic base. But we can't afford four more years of leadership by a consulting class of professional election losers. In the last year, grassroots contributors like us gave more than $300 million to the Kerry campaign and the DNC, and proved that the Party doesn't need corporate cash to be competitive.2 Now it's our Party: we bought it, we own it, and we're going to take it back.

We've made it easy to contact your state Party leaders and ask them support a chair who will represent all of us OUTSIDE of the Washington beltway and engage us in a fight for a bold Democratic vision. If we get enough signatures today, we'll deliver your comments to their meeting this weekend, so please click below NOW to make your voice heard:

http://www.moveonpac.org/dncchair/

MoveOn includes Republicans, Greens, and independents. But all of us who are struggling for health care, clean air, decent jobs, and a sane foreign policy can agree on one thing: we're better off with a vibrant, populist Democratic Party that's strong enough to challenge the extreme-right Republican leadership.

Why haven't we had one? Under outgoing DNC chair Terry McAuliffe, the Party cozied up to many of the same corporate donors that fund the Republicans -- drug companies, HMO's, media conglomerates, big banks, polluting industries. The result was watered down, play-it-safe politics that kept the money flowing but alienated traditional Democrats as well as reform-minded independents in search of vision and integrity. And so the Party lost ground.

But in 2004, something incredible happened: hundreds of thousands of small contributors gave millions and millions of dollars and changed the way politics works forever. New we have an opportunity to birth a new Democratic Party -- a Party of the people that's funded by the people and that fights for the people. Tell your state Party leaders that you want a DNC chair who will use this new grassroots energy to catapult us to victory at:

http://www.moveonpac.org/dncchair/

The Democratic National Committee is the national backbone of the Democratic Party, and it matters who ends up as the new chair. With Democrats out of power in Washington, the new chair will play an unprecedented role as the voice of the Party. And no one will be in a better position to orchestrate a Democratic revival.

The state Party leaders -- who play a pivotal role within the DNC -- understand the importance of the DNC Chair. They have helped to make the election process more transparent, by inviting candidates for Chair to a public forum at their meeting. And for the first time, they are considering endorsing a candidate en masse. If they vote as a bloc, they could determine the next Chair. They represent all of us who knocked on doors, who gave money, who made phone calls -- and it's time for us to weigh in.

The movement for change that we built during the last election is still gathering strength. We need leadership that will break the chains of corporate funding so we can fight -- really fight -- for a better America.

Thank you for all that you do,

--Eli Pariser, Justin Ruben, and the whole MoveOn PAC team
December 9, 2004

1 The Democratic National Committee is the organizational structure of the national Democratic Party. The chair is elected by the approximately 440 voting members of the DNC, who include state Party officials, elected Democrats from all levels of government, and representatives of Party caucuses like the Young Democrats of America and the National Federation of Democratic Women. The election for DNC chair will take place in February, and state Party officials control between one-quarter and one-third of the votes that are likely to be cast. This weekend, they are meeting to hear from a number of candidates for Chair. They may or may not make an endorsement at their meeting, but they have announced plans to do so at some point.

2 "The Next DNC Chair: Why You Should Care," syndicated column by Arianna Huffington, December 8, 2004. Online at:
http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/column.php?id=748

[fnottr]

24. well here's what I send them....

"I urge you to support Howard Dean for DNC chair. He revolutionized fund-raising during the primary campaign, soliciting a heretofore unseen amount of donations not from Corporate America, but from individual citizens. With Dean at the helm, no more will the ranks of the party faithful have to sit idly by while our party is sold out to the highest bidder. By employing a strategy of engaging the electorate intimately in the campaign, we project an image of unity and strength to the rest of the country. We have historically had trouble uniting the disparate groups of people within our party, I believe part of the reason for this is that so much of our base feels disenfranchised from the political process. Howard Dean addressed that by actively seeking donations and input from private citizens. He energized the base in a way to moved us simply beyond wanting Bush out, and toward standing for something. I believe he will continue this vital work as the head of the party."

Ok, so maybe I got a little carried away....
:P

[PassingFair]

40. A whole lot of us are getting carried away, fnottr!

Check out the DFA Forum in the DU Groups section.
I told them that Dean could bring home the bacon without killing the sow. (I'm folksy that way)

[YankeeFan]

45. You "Got Carried Away"

Like hell you did.

I've been saying it for months now.

Dean should have gone against the Bush Leaguer. But who here listened to me? Kerry and Edwards made up the two weakest possible candidates we could have possibly chosen. You should have heard some of the cheers I had to endure when Edwards was chosen as veep candidate. "That's it! We win! Flipper is going down". and worse. And I had to agree with them. Edwards was, and is, a loser. All he really did was put the final nail in Kerry's coffin And in a few weeks Edwards is going to be out of a job.

Dean in 08.

And if he can't get that, let him have the DNC Chair.

Screw THAT! I want Dean to get BOTH!

[sendero]

56. You go right ahead and get carried away...

.... I like what you wrote and agree with it 100%!

[fnottr]

66. Thanks

I's just read the latest update on DFA before I wrote that, and it just seemed to spell out exactly what we need to do as a party. Dean's politics aren't particularly radical in any way, but he's been painted as some sort of extremest simply because he has the balls to stand up to the * administration. He completely defies the 'weak democrat' stereotype that's plagued us for so long. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for Kerry and Edwards, I think they tried to play too nice, and when you're playing against Rove, playing nice is like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight

[sendero]

71. I agree...

Dean would make a perfect DNC chair. And, I respect Kerry and think he's a good man, but I don't want to run him again in 08, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result :)

The Dem party has to turn to a new page in their playbook, or get a new playbook. I was thrilled when I read that email from MoveOn. We're at a fork - it's either MoveOn's way or the DLC's way, and I know the DLC way isn't going to work.

[eridani]

67. This is what I sent

I am writing to ask you to support Dr. Howard Dean for chair of the DNC. Since he ended his campaign for president, he has vigorously encouraged people not actively engaged in electoral politics to join the Democratic Party and to run for office at all levels.

There has been a big influx of members into the party during the 2003 primary campaign season. In WA state, this has been due to the self-organized volunteer campaigns of Dean and Kucinich, and to a lesser extent Clark. The question before the DNC is this--do you want this small army of doorbellers, phone canvassers and small amount donors to become permanent party activists, or not? If you do, selecting Dr. Dean as DNC chair sends a powerful message to that effect.

Additionally, Dr. Dean has been clearly addressing the need for fully transparent, accessible and auditable voting processes. Various statistical anomalies show that it is entirely possible that vote suppression and fraud gave the election to Bush, but it will be completely impossible to prove it one way or another because private companies have stolen auditability from us. If the DNC remains unwilling to address this issue, the Democratic Party might as well resign itself to extinction, sooner rather than later.

[TheDonkey]

14. Pathetic move on Move-on's part

They have given no reason to believe that their method of sucess works. I like Move-on but the arrogance of statements like those aren't good for anyone. We need to work together if we want to succeed not start pointing the finger.

[catgirl]

20. I AGREE!

I volunteered for MoveOn for awhile until I realized they were completely disorganized as far as- get the Vote effort. I went to a local DFL office and they put me to work. I got so much more accomplished with the DFL in ONE day than w/ MoveOn. Then I read an article on Yahoo where MoveOn took all the credit for the huge voter turnout. I e-mailed Eli expressing my rage and, of course, never heard back. They are arrogant and self-rightous.

[Voltaire99]

53. Wrong. Light a fire under your complacency.

We're sick of hearing about "working together" when what it means, ultimately, is a watered-down version of Republicanism.

You'd better bet we're going to point the finger--a lot of fingers. This party has much to answer for, much that needs changing, much it must once again become.

[Renew Deal]

76. It's not about their method of success.

It's about the leadership style of the party. It's about a party of the people and for the people instead of the lobbies and for the corporations. I'm glad that Move-on spoke up and I like what they said.

[Bono71]

77. I agree, it could split the party right down the middle...

The fact is, we lost a high turnout election in 2004. This should never happen to democrats. High turnout should mean victories. I think (only my opinion) some of the rhetoric put forth by Moveon (though on point) cost us key swing votes. In short, I think MoveOn sometimes alienated swing voters with its message...

The Democratic Party should be in charge of the campaign. It shouldn't be a committee approach.

[IndianaGreen]

90. If you are not against the war, we ain't got nothing in common!

and if you don't support equal rights for all, including marriage rights for gays and lesbians, then we don't even have a basis to have a dialogue.

[VegasWolf]

15. Finally, McAuliffe and the other "leaders" have to go!!!! n/t

[catgirl]

22. Let's Point Fingers

Sure let's take it out on the dem leaders now. The fact is, the repugs stole the election. You're playing right into their fingers now. Would you be blasting Kerry, McAuliffe and others if we had won (well we know we won)? I doubt it.

[PassingFair]

41. Bet your buttocks, I would!

If Kerry had won, it would be triple time to clean house. The Move-On/Dean folks would be holding some feet to the fire. We are not saying anything now that we weren't saying before the election. The difference is, with the loss, we are now being heard.

[Sterling]

47. You would have a leg to stand on but....

Your candidates could give a fuck about any stolen election.

[donheld]

57. It would be our job to be blasting kerry and McAuliffe

If we as democrats don't put the fire to their feet who will, our party will continue to sink into oblivion


BTW welcome to DU :hi:

[Voltaire99]

59. The stolen election whining is tiresome.

While serious, disenfranchisement didn't lose this election. It was lost when the Dem bosses pushed their GOP-lite candidate to the front of the pack by orchestrating the destruction of Dean.

You can comfort yourself with the myth of unfairness, but it will require you to help explain why two successive candidates couldn't get sufficient numbers to bury a dud like Bush.

[Smirking_Chimp]

16. New Party?-Liberal Democrats

We should just start a new party and call it the "Liberal Democrats" as opposed to the corporate "Democrats". Keeping Democrats in the party name would make long time dems feel good, and having liberal there would distinguish those who are proud to be liberal, and those who are ashamed to be.
You could have Greens crossing over, conservatives, Libertarians, independents, whatever, if you can get someone who is not ashamed of who he is.

[ElectroPrincess]

65. I like the sound of that ... Liberal Democrats? Yes, I'm there :-).

[6th Borough]

91. Hell, the Alaska Moderate Republican Party is left of the Dem "center" /nt

[Hekate]

21. "Liberal powerhouse MoveOn.org" -- wow, nice recognition!

We've come pretty far when that's the adjective linked to MoveOn. I'll be looking for the letter when I check my e-mail later.

Go, Eli! :bounce:

Hekate

[SoiledEarthLink]

23. Does moveon file an expense sheet or summary of donation distribution?

Where can we go to see how moveon spent our money? Something like the Sierra Club puts out every year that tells me where my hard earned money was spent. I must have sent moveon.org at least 1500.00 bucks this year alone and would really like to see how they spent it, what their top guys were paid etc. If the Sierra Club, TWC, NRDC can do it then moveon certainly can. Am I wrong to want to see this data?

[seriousstan]

25. How does this affect their status as a non-partisan 501c?

"But this year, with the race wide open, we have the chance to elect a leader who will reconnect the Democratic Party with its constituents -- us."


"Now it's our Party: we bought it, we own it, and we're going to take it back."

Maybe I am confusing the rules with those governing the 527 but I am almost certain there are rules dictating how directly they can be aligned with a party.

Anyone know the specifics and ramifications of this proclamation?

These are some of the things I have found and am wondering about....

"The Internal Revenue Code allows 501(c)(3) organizations to lobby on any issue that does not favor any partisan candidacy or particular candidate for political office, up to a percentage cost of the organization's total expenditures during a given fiscal year."


Any endorsement of a political party by a 501(c)(3), or staff acting in an official capacity is specifically prohibited by IRS regulations.

[hedda_foil]

39. Easy. They're not a 501c3.

They're a PAC. They also have a 527 arm and a 501c4 for lobbying activites. No 501c3.

[seriousstan]

46. But there are limits on the political campaign side that is very low

1. A §501(c)(4) organization may participate in lawful political campaign activities involving the nomination or election of public officials without adversely affecting its exempt status, provided such activities are insubstantial in relation to its overall activities.

I beleieve the term "insubstantial" is important here.

[Eloriel]

But the PAC shoudln't be -- at least not like that.

You don't go campaigning out of your lobbying group, so IMO your point is irrelevent since they HAVE a PAC.

[Cronus Protagonist]

26. Can we join the Move On Party?

I'm up for it.




http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

27. 'Bout damn time!

Maybe there is hope............ :shrug:

[Downtown Hound]

30. The pukes might have stolen the election

but the Dems let them do it. They had ample warning about the voting machines and decided to do nothing about it. We can't allow that kind of laziness. Too much depends on it. Thank God for moveon, they give me hope.

[mike_c]

31. MoveOn rocks, and the DNC "leadership" is a waste of space....

I agree with this email completely. "...a consulting class of professional election losers" indeed!

[hellbound-liberal]

34. I agree that the time is right to take advantage of the movement

that WE have begun, DESPITE THE DNC, not because of them. here's my letter:

Dear DNC, I am writing to express my support for Howard Dean as the new leader of the DNC. We need a smart, articulate FIGHTER on our side, one who can give as good, if not better, than he gets. One who can go toe-to-toe with Ed Gillespie and not back down. I am one of the growing number of disgruntled Democrats who is sick and tired of seeing my beliefs marginalized by a party that is beholden to special interests. Now more than ever, we need to DISTINGUISH ourselves from the Republicans, not ACT LIKE THEM! If you fail to take advantage of the impending disaster in Iraq and with the economy here at home and continue to offer weak leadership in the tradition of Terry McAuliffe, you are going to go down without my help. I was a Precinct Chair in the previous election but I am becoming convinced that devoting my efforts to helping the Green Party elect people at all levels of government will do more to return the government of this country back into the hands of the people than wasting anymore time on your "Republican-Lite" approach. I sincerely hope that you make the right decision at your meeting next week. The future of OUR democracy is at stake. Thank you.

[PassingFair]

43. BEAUTIFUL LETTER, irksome one!

Used the caps, because that's what I just shouted out loud!
Thanks!

[Erika]

35. I agree with Move On Org!

We need to sharply define the differences between the parties. Democrats are the party of the people concerned about the people.

Too many of our candidates ran as Bush lites.

We need to start being proud to be called liberal.

[DS1]

37. So, in effect, they've outlobbied the lobbyists with cash?

Am I reading this right?

[jmcgowanjm]

38. The Democratic Party is dead

If you can't even get enough voting machines for your
precincts...

You know, when the street army takes back Ohio for the
Dems, it's going to be very interesting to see who in the DNC
they hand it back to.

[Just Me]

49. Aw shit, Eli,...YOU GO!!!!

I LOVE MoveON :loveya:

The DNC has stifled the ingenuity and vision and brilliance of our people.

It's time for new leadership, new direction, and unleashed passion!!

GO, MOVEON, GO!!!

[4dsc]

52. With Dean and Moveon..

I could see the beginnings of a beautiful thing..

[goforit]

54. Yes..........As it should be!!!!

Dean is our next FDR!!!

Dems and Repugs have shown they are a bird of the same feather.

And the jig is up.

[Voltaire99]

58. And without them, many of us shall be moving on...

...from involvement in this party. It either reforms itself, or it's going to have to find other saps to care about it.

[IndianaGreen]

55. Here is what Howard Dean said on the same topic...

BTW, I have been a MoveOn member since the days of the Ken Starr Whitewater fiasco. I agree with them 100-percent.

Here is what Howard Dean said on the same topic:

Remarks by Governor Howard Dean On the Future of the Democratic Party
The George Washington University

Here in Washington, it seems that after every losing election, there's a consensus reached among decision-makers in the Democratic Party is that the way to win is to be more like Republicans.

I suppose you could call that philosophy: if you didn't beat 'em, join them.

I'm not one for making predictions -- but if we accept that philosophy this time around, another Democrat will be standing here in four years giving this same speech. We cannot win by being "Republican-lite." We've tried it; it doesn't work.

[hollowdweller]

60. If the Democratic Party can start raising money like Dean did but on a

larger scale, it can return to it's populist message and start winning elections again.

[SoiledEarthLink]

61. I just realized something

Moveon as a 527 can not be aligned with the Democratic party. How do they plan to pull this off?

[Boosterman]

62. Actually my problem was...They own us?

[Pachamama]

86. They aren't "aligned" with the Dem Party - and they have a separate PAC

that is allowed to do what your considering "illegal" and against the rules....

Trust me - the MoveOn folks while many may not agree with them on all things, they are a smart bunch of people and the last thing they will do is risk doing something that would lose them their 527 status or any other for that matter. They run the divisions separately....

[Chicago Democrat]

68. Purge Liebermann and all WAR LOVING DEMOCRATS!

NO COMPROMISE! LIEBERMANN MUST DISOWN WAR OR SWITCH PARTIES! FUCK HIM!

[VolcanoJen]

72. KICK!

:dem:

[CheshireCat]

73. Taking back our Democratic Party

I am ready to fight to take back the Democratic party. If this proves an impossible task, I will no longer vote for a candidate just because he or she has a D by their names.

Here is a message I just sent to the DNC:

I have worked with and voted for the Democratic Party since 1972. Since the early 1980's,I have watched the Democratic Party change.

Democrats were once a bold group of Americans who truely believed in equal rights, a living wage, a clean environment, and workers' rights. They stood up to those who would rob Americans of these rights.

Now, the Democrats (most of them, anyway) bow to their corporate masters as they stuff their pockets with mega bucks. They tremble when Republicans challenge the values our party, acting as if they are ashamed of what the Democratic Party has always stood for.

The Democratic party has allowed the Republicans to push us far to the right. We are now somewhere to the right of Richard Nixon in 1972.

The Democratic Party must return to its working and middle class roots. This means getting rid of special interest politics.

I want my Democratic party back and I'm willing to fight for it.

No longer will I support or vote for some candidate that sounds like a Republican, but wears the Democratic label. The same goes for Dem candidates that talk like a Democrat but vote like a Republican.

Show your true base that the Democratic Party is coming home by voting for a DNC chair that will declare independence from special interest.

Bring it on!

[Psephos]

75. Someone whack those motherfuckers with a clue-by-four

MoveOn does not own the Democratic Party. You may agree or disagree with MoveOn's vision and methods, but this claim of ownership is arrogant, imperial, and bound to split the party at a time it needs to find common cause.

In fact, I can think of almost nothing more damaging to the Democratic Party than conducting ideological purity purges. What's next, public hangings of the kulaks? Political power is aggregate, and involves finding ways to work together to defeat the opponent. THE REPUKES KNOW HOW TO SET ASIDE THEIR DIFFERENCES ENOUGH TO PUT TOGETHER A MAJORITY. WE BETTER LEARN.

Did Rove write this letter?

[Sideways]

78. Whatever

:wtf: Are you blathering about. Your post is incoherent and weird. We need to learn from a party of slime and ooze? Fucking ridiculous. Belch. Barf. Bugger off.

[mb7588a]

80. clue-by-four indeed.

Nothing blathering about this.

[IndianaGreen]

89. The party is already split! As to a common cause, it's the war, stupid!

And the war is the reason the party is split!

[mb7588a]

79. Way I see it,

MoveOn.org and others like it have already split the party's money and volunteers. It was blatantly clear in this last campaign. The law saying that the party and 527s can't interact at all IS A GOOD ONE. They solicited absentee ballot requests, but never followed up with them. If the party and 527s could coordinate on the ground, local organizers would be killing each other. They ran ads that Kerry had to denounce because they were so outlandish. Bush didn't have to respond to their attacks, which were few and far between. Bush only had to be held accountable to what came out of Kerry-Edwards/DNC.

They are so easily painted as the extremists that few take them seriously when they're trumpeting.

MoveOn's methods are pathetic and receive my pity. I've seen first hand the blast emails and faxes from them in a Senator's office. I've answered the thousands of calls they can get made in a day. Most emails are trashed, and most calls are unanswered or dodged. I ran into volunteers this campaign cycle who refused to help the party because they were already helping ACT or MoveOn. Their ground games were months behind the party's, but people did just because "It's not the party."

We need ONE united front - not 8. Forget these party-splitting idiots.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

82. Ed Shultz is railing on that right now on his radio show

He's pissed about MoveOn's claim about "We bought we own it....:shrug: I have XM in my vehicle and I usually listen to Americaleft channel 165, I think, about this time of day because I like to listen to Randi Rhodes. Seems she has been replaced in that time slot with Ed Shultz. :wtf: I wonder why the switch in programming? I would much rather listen to Randi Rhodes then Ed since I am not an "Edhead"

[CatholicEdHead]

97. I thought it was quite good

Ed is right, the Democratic party is easily splintered. We are too busy fighting ourselves after the election. I guess that is human nature but MoveOn is doing internal dividing in this finger pointing.

Building for the future does not always mean you try to tear down other parts of the orgization.

I would call today a "tough love" day on Ed's show. I respect him for that.

[lcbart]

84. It's about time.

Someone said it.

I'm so tired of the talk of capturing the centrist vote, becoming more moderate, reaching out to the red states. I don't want to reach out to the - I want to spray paint them blue.

There are key issues that I as a 'liberal' will not negotiate on.

I will never vote for a Democrat who.....
- is not pro-choice.
- has not shown a solid history of being environmentally concerned.
- uses military power as an absolute last resort.
- does not think we are part of a larger concern.

It's time for change, and if Moveon can accomplish it - all the better for us ( or me )

[SOS]

85. McAuliffe Out - Dean In!

:)

[Chicago Democrat]

99. Yes! McAuliffe Out - Dean In!

:)

[frustrated_lefty]

96. About time.

Stupid son's a' bitches should have supported Dean to begin with instead of some botoxed Herman Munster with an urge to concede before the day is done. Instead of the Dean scream we got the Kerry sigh. And, oh, how so very motivational that sigh was.