Pell (grant) cuts could be dire for students

[enough]

Front page Philadelphia Inquirer today
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10381221.htm

Posted on Fri, Dec. 10, 2004
Pell cuts could be dire for students

The most needy at local colleges might lose aid.
By Patrick Kerkstra
Inquirer Staff Writer


As a freshman, Temple University student Arsema Solomon needed to borrow just $5,000 to cover college expenses that weren't met by grants, some limited family help, and a part-time job.

Three years later, Solomon has added a night shift as a bank teller to her day job - and still mounting costs have forced her to double her student-loan load, to $10,000 a year.

Her financial burden may be even greater next year, if the Bush administration goes ahead with a plan to change the Pell Grant funding formula.

"I already work full-time to supplement my grants and loans," said Solomon. "But I guess I'd just work more."

If the formula is changed, an estimated 90,000 students receiving Pell grants would become ineligible for the program, and an additional 1.2 million students would see their grants shaved by $200 to $300, according to a financial-aid advisory committee created by Congress.

All financial-aid administrators agreed that their campuses would feel the pinch - especially public universities such as Temple and Rutgers-Camden, where more than a third of all students receive Pell grants. But it is too soon to tell exactly what the impact would be.

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[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. It's simple - keep poor people from becoming rich people.

Deny them an education.

[deutsey]

2. "Well, the world needs ditch-diggers too"

Ted Knight in Caddyshack.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. Well, I think Bush has all of DU earmarked for that job

You know, when he puts us in prison camps.

[deutsey]

18. Arbeit macht frei, baby.

The original Main Gate to Auschwitz Concentration Camp

The phrase, which means "work makes one free," was on many of the entrances to Nazi concentration camps.

Funny guys, those Nazis. :puke:

[Cronus Protagonist]

45. And here's the 21st century version...

http://www.bushspeaks.com/home.asp?did=121

[GingerSnaps]

3. When will it take effect?

:shrug:

[Vogon_Glory]

5. Still, You Wonder

As appalling as it is to see more ladders of social mobility lifted out of reach, I still can't help but wonder how many of these kids either didn't bother to vote or voted for the Banana Republicans.

[lolly]

38. I know of at least one

Friend of my daughter's. Prime candidate for Pell Grants. Bright student, not quite strong enough to get Merit Scholarship-type money. Father is disabled, mother has a teaching job. They seem to assume that their 2 daughters will be eligible for lots of financial aid--and they would have been, before AWOL.

Guess who they voted for?

[Vogon_Glory]

49. Reality Checks Instead Of Tuition Assistance Checks

Reality checks instead of tuition assistance checks--that'll ultimately be one of the things that'll make bedazzled lower middle-class voters wise up to the REAL Republican agenda.

With the results of each election since 1998, I am convinced that the ONLY thing that will wise up so many of the deceived voters thinking that the Republican Party has their interests at heart is pain, REAL pain. Most Bush voters haven't gone through the sort of real pain that their grandparents and great grandparents went through in the pre-New Deal, pre-Great Society Not-So-Good Old Days--genuine homelessness, genuine poverty, genuine hunger, genuine illness, being forced to shop at the thrift stores, going to food pantries and being sent empty away.

Thanks to the Banana Republicans' fiscal recklessness, I fear that such painful days of voter education are coming. My chief worry regarding this is whether the Banana Republicans are trying to time such lessons for a Democratic presidential administration and a Democratic-controlled Congress so they can once again duck their responsibility.

[insane_cratic_gal]

6. It's my theory

Bushco is trying to help recruiters stimulate numbers by dropping college ops for highschool kids. Trying to avoid a draft.

The GI bill if you go through all of the red tape is about 50,000 over a period of 36 months. but that number varies..by 1996 96 percent of the services were enrolled in the GI bill. It's one of the top reasons for joining the service.

Poor pay, no jobs, no post education.. leaves things bleak. In a good economy they don't join as often. Forcing those who need pay, or college money to eye ball the military.

Again it's just a theory.

[theHandpuppet]

16. Exactly what I was thinking, too

Forcing more poor kids to enlist for the chance at a college education -- if they survive. A neat trick to keep the wealthy from having to confront the reality of sending their own kids to war via a draft.

[gottaB]

23. I'm sure that's part of the calculation, but...

Defunding the Pell grant program has been on the Republican agenda for many years. IMO the goal is to push people to borrow more. Not just student loans, but high-interest consumer credit cards. That's how a lot of kids try to meet the gap. It's a kind of public welfare scam for MBNA, Citicorp and the other major banks.

[SaintLouisBlues]

7. Combine this with the new SBA loan cost increases

I just posted a story on that crap.

Hey, they have theirs, so screw everyone else.

[Sara Beverley]

8. We've got to keep feeding the bear, not the minds of our children.

Minorities seem to be under attack from all sides in this country. Even some in my family are swallowing this Kool-aid. We had one good period in this country since WWII and it all ended about 1996-1999. It's been downhill ever since. The downfall began with Whitewater.

[Massachusetts]

9. Well that Sucks, but

depending on where a student wishing to go to college lives, they should remember that the Community College route works. In Massachusetts you can do (2) years at a state CC and then transfer for the final (2) at the University of Mass. Cum average has to be in line etc. Big savings though not glorious or high profile (like Holy Cross, B.C., B.U. etc.). The other problem is that most of these kids out of high school look down on the CC route. That is the fault of Guidance Dept. and uniformed "my child was student of the week", parents.IMHO

[amazona]

14. they look down on it for a good reason

Community college does not lead to the contacts you need to get a real job as opposed to being a barista at a coffee shop. I know plenty of folks who went the community college route. In theory, it might work, in reality, the kids are just further and further behind those who go through a tough freshman year during...their freshman year.

[bicentennial_baby]

22. Excuse moi?

I am about to transfer into UMASS through the Massachusetts Joint Admissions Program. I am a 3.96 GPA Phi Theta Kappa Honors student that Harvard and Cornell both want, and I have already begun cultivating connections in my field (PoliSci/Int'l Relations). Your asinine generalization is a load of crap.

[AP]

26. I have a friend who transferred from CC to Cornell, and the best grad...

...programs in America are filled with students who were once Junior transfers from California community colleges into the UC system.

[amazona]

31. well community college is not that way in most states

It is out-dated programs for IT jobs that no longer exist. A friend spent years getting a graphic design degree at a local community college. Of course he could not get even one job in his field. You see, we have these things called computers now and they were training him to use the old-time drafting tools. I wish I was kidding. I'm not. And this was in the 90s.

[amazona]

30. congratulations

But I bet you know that you are the exception. I know too many to name who went the community college route and went nowhere. I bet you do too if you're honest with yourself. The very best (and certainly 3.96 GPA is the very best) may succeed wherever they go and whatever start they get. It's tougher for the rest of us. We do ourselves no favors by pretending that community college is considered the equivalent of the "real thing" by many employers.

[Ms_Mary]

37. Your area must have

really bad community colleges or you are making some erroneous generalizations based on opinion and assumption.

[Ms_Mary]

35. I have taught community college classes

and prior to my son's birth, worked full-time at one in a non-teaching capacity. I also got my AA before finishing my bachelor's degree. I was well prepared to continue my education. The college I worked for had a remarkably high transfer student GPA. Our students did quite well.

Community colleges open a lot of doors for a lot of people. Perhaps you are also overlooking the importance of skilled workers to repair your car, install heating and air, become electricians, plumbers, nurses, hair stylists. You may not place much importance on the jobs, but they are neccessary and important.

[jwirr]

42. My daughter was head-hunted from a

cc and ended up as an exec. at a large American corp. (Unfortunately she is now among the laid off!!) I think it depends on the grades you get more than anything else. I also would like to see more of the basic classes being given through computer. No, I realize that it is not the same as attending Harvard but it could be a way to finish some of the credits cheaper and then move on to the better schools. Something has to be done - not only do all children need to be educated but in less than 5 years we are going to be needing replacement workers for retiring boomers. These cuts do not make sense.

[silverweb]

27. You're right.

We have a great community college and transfer system here in California. Of course, tuition has gone up twice in the past two years, but it's still a very affordable and effective way to get into the state university system.

Nobody cares where you spent your first two years of college. They only care about which university you got your degree from.

[davekriss]

46. My cousin did that...

Though he had the grades to start better, he began in community college (we used to call it "junior college"), lived at home those years to save money, then transferred to University of Pennsylvania/Wharton School of Business. He graduated from there with honors and has had a successful business career since, including all the material trappings. (He's also a Republican who believes in the Rovian "Ownership Society" dystopia -- buy, hey, he's family. Whaddya' gonna do?)

[drscm]

10. Who cares?

If these folks would just go to community college they would get some of those great jobs that bush talks about...oh, wait....

[Massachusetts]

11. Please understand

that I think bu$hco and his circus are evil. I'm just throwing this information out there as an alternative to students and parents who don't know and can't afford a $80K plus college education.
They may not get a great job at first, but they have been educated and aren't in "hawk".IMHO

[Renew Deal]

34. I was ready to blast you.

I'm a student. I would tell you who cared. :pals:

[LeftHander]

12. And Shrub got slid through....

A "C" student my ass...was probably a "D" and failing student but kept in the system by his wealthy daddy....

[lakelly]

13. God Bless America

Just one more way for Bush and co to put us all in our collective places. There's them and theres us. Bush is trying his damnedest to undo the middle class and the New Deal. Something tells me he hasn't seen the movie "Nicholas and Alexandria". Too bad because I smell the faintest whiff of something in the air. Could it be the next American revolution?:headbang:

[JPace]

15. I've heard that European Universities are free.....

so this is just another act that is draining the lifeblood
from our nation. We will be not only poor but ignorant in
the future. I don't know what an anti Christ is, but if its
someone who is determined to destroy good than bush is just
that person.

[lonestarnot]

17. could be? Is this really speculative...

Post graduate studies locked up for now.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tempest]

20. You're not too bright

Pell grants are given mostly to lower and middle income families.

Families who are driving 10 year old cars and can't afford to go to a casino.

[bicentennial_baby]

21. Weird...Mine got jacked up higher!

I just got my bill for next semester, and my Pell grant increased by a large amount (over 1000). Strange...

[AP]

24. I think the Republicans want to spin it this way:

I think they want to say the average award is increasing, while they cut off a lot of people from elligibilty.

I think the fund is actually getting smaller and they're giving way fewer grants.

That's second-hand info. If anyone knows the story, post it.

I think you're benefitting from the spin strategy, but while you're getting more, many others aren't getting anything at all.

Bumping people out of higher education, and increasing the amount of debt you have to go into for college is a gift to banks (it shifts wealth from the bottom to the top) and it also will radically change America into an hour-glass economy, which is exactly what Republicans want.

[bicentennial_baby]

25. That sucks...

I hate this shit...but I wouldn't be gettingit if I didn't need it. I'm po!

[prairierose]

28. Yes, it really hurts the students

but it also hurts post secondary schools that are state funded. we'll see how long I have a job when the student numbers go down because they can't get enough money to go to school or they get drafted.

whoopee....I'm sooo excited about the future NOT


:nuke:

[gottaB]

29. You could always go back to school, get a different degree

:evilgrin:

[prairierose]

40. can't afford it!!!!! n/t

[gottaB]

44. Then you may be eligible for a Pell Grant

:) hope my diabilical wit is shining through

[prairierose]

48. yes it is!!! LOL

:evilgrin:

[Just Me]

32. Fascist Feudalism has no space for human potential!!!

Only the most fortunate and/or most predatory, survive. It's worse than the "natural" world,...much more destructive.

[AuntiBush]

33. Student here - Already Happening!

Yes... it hit me in September, this semester and even more on my fasfa pell for January. No bull!!!

[UVASAM1]

36. from a current student

this may be just frustration, but cmon, 10k in debt a year to go to college?

I know all kinds of people who borrow that. Does it suck? Sure. But they need to focus on the bigger problem -- the fact that college at a private school costs about 160k for 4 years, and about 80k for a state school like UMichigan or UVA.


maybe i'm frustrated b/c most people at my law school have ug and law debt that is well over 100k

[WindRavenX]

39. fuck

Thanks Bush for making me even more in debt! :puke:

[Esslinger]

41. No Child Left Behind?

[LynnTheDem]

43. Kerry WARNED America in the debates that bush was cutting Pells

And bush called Kerry a liar over it.

[Just Me]

47. Human potential being crushed by human weakness/sin/selfishness.

Go figure. The "conservative" way in the U.S.A. We wanna' MAKE life,...not preserve it,...since we deliver it,...it (life) is suppose to serve us and make more life. We don't give a damn about "quality" of life,...as long as there is mass production to serve life,...most of all,..our life.

Yep. Crazy, dysfunctional human beings.

Doncha' wish they could all be sent to an island to live amongst themselves,...knowing that they would never make it,...without those of us who are compassionate?

They would be begging for us liberals,...