Virgins Rally to Promote Abstinence

[Thurston Howell IV]

KAMPALA (Reuters) - Hundreds of virgins gathered in the Ugandan capital Friday to meet the country's first lady and renew their pledges to abstain from premarital sex.

<snip>

"Well, we say we are crazy. We are crazy about Jesus, because he is our redeemer and our shield," he said to loud applause from the crowd and from First Lady Janet Museveni.

<snip>
"You can sense the cynicism and animosity," he told Reuters. "We are promoting abstinence because Uganda is under attack from an agenda driven by homosexuals and Western experts who are out of touch with how the AIDS epidemic is driven in Africa."

<snip>
He said they should abstain from sex now, keeping their "valuables" until later, when they would enjoy it more. "You know what it is like when you eat a young, unripe mango?" he asked. "That's right. It is very, very bitter."

For some more interesting perspectives, get the complete story at:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20041210/od_nm/uganda_virgins_dc

[autorank]

1. In Uganda, can you be charged w/perjury at a demonstration?

[quaoar]

2. But unripe mangos

are more firm.

Or so I've heard. :)

[mitchtv]

34. Tart

[northernsoul]

31. nope, perjury only happens if you're under oath

which usually means you're offering testimony in court.

[KDLarsen]

3. Let's hope they don't look to the Bible Belt for inspiration..

.. because according to Bible Belt teens, anal & oral sex isn't considered sex at all.

[Thurston Howell IV]

7. Jeez, if anal sex isn't sex

what is it? Just a friendly scrutinizing of the interior of one's partner's rectum?

The article mentions an organization called "True Love Waits." I'm pretty sure that's an American right-wing Christian organization. Not sure if it is tied to James Dobson or not, though that rings a bell.

[KDLarsen]

14. Well, their fucked up idea..

.. pretty much says that if the girls vagina isn't touched, then she's still technically a virgin.

[UL_Approved]

4. I am starting to wonder about this story

This sounds just like the rhetoric that a bunch of hapless, soft-willed little honkies shout at pro-fundie rallies. Then I started thinking...

Why IS homosexuality becoming such an enforced taboo? Why ARE all fundamentalists trying to hunt down the homosexual crowd?

Well, I can think of several reasons.

1. Scapegoat. People who are different give rise to grounds for discrimination.

2. Homosexual lifestyle has a higher risk of transmitting HIV.

3. Dissent. Most people who I meet who are gay have one thing in common: they aren't afraid of making statements about the world they live in. They have a higher likelihood, in my opinion, of causing dissent in societies. I think that is the real reason why homosexuals are persecuted.

[Thurston Howell IV]

5. Homosexuality transgresses traditional boundaries

and calls into question the social conservative worldview. And their viewpoint doesn't really accommodate dissent. I believe reason #3 that you list is the driving force.

I agree that your other points play a role as well. From their perspective, AIDS is a godsend. Transgressing boundaries calls for punishment, otherwise others might be tempted to cross those (or other) boundaries as well. And scapegoats are politically useful.

[UL_Approved]

8. At least I'm not alone in that belief

Martin Luther King, Jr. stated in his book "Why We Can't Wait" how this comes out as a problem for ALL people. He points out that injustice of one kind sanctions all injustice. To acknowledge that any injustice is valid is to justify injustice as a whole. No prejudice or discrimination is unique or independent. This is why the persecution of homosexuals is wrong.

[JusticeForAll]

10. Please don't call AIDS a godsend...

I understand your context, but it could be phrased much differently. No one is thanking any God (except maybe Falwell) for AIDS.

[Thurston Howell IV]

13. Didn't mean to offend or promote insensitivity

Originally, I was going to include the parenthetical statement "pun intended," but didn't because it seemed extraneous. It's not a point I'm stuck on, however Falwell has a fairly large following, and I have heard related comments over the years by acquantances. So "no one" seems like an underestimate.

Obviously, such a sentiment is cruel in addition to being mistaken.

[Mike Niendorff]

6. A line from Sinclair Lewis keeps coming to mind these days:

'Every man's a king, as long as he has someone to look down on.'

(ie: the worse things get, the more the appeal of bigotry grows).


MDN

[Erika]

17. Excellent quote

Now if we can only get these people to read Dickens, Hugo, and Zola.

[neweurope]

19. They have to start someweher. First they get the homosexuals because

unfortunately a great many people agree on using them as scapegoats. In Germany many people consciously or subconsciously felt uneasy with Jews. The rest followed. The rest will follow. Sneering remarks about "intellectualism" etc. have already been made, eh? Protecting homosexuals and their rights with all might is very important to protect the rights and freedom of all of us.

[Mike Niendorff]

20. I think "the art of picking a fight" is also heavily in play here

They want to marginalize ALL their opponents, so they're specifically picking on those they perceive as the "most easily marginalized" in order to falsely frame the debate in terms favorable to their own propaganda efforts. Sorry if that's a bit wordy, but I think the concept is important, even if I'm having a hard time articulating it succinctly.

The more I watch the wingnuts, the more I'm convinced that the way they pick fights is strategic, and is designed to "herd" people toward their side by forcing their opponents to defend people and causes that they think will make them either look "bad" or, at minimum, "out of the mainstream". Then the wingnuts swoop in and proclaim themselves defenders of "traditional values", "the family", god, country, faith, hope, etc. And every time we try to challenge their claim to these terms, they immediately attack "those marginal people" again, knowing that the whole progressive movement will come to their aid (which they will then immediately use to try and scare "middle America" away from the progressive movement). And they keep doing it because *it works*.

That being said, I honestly think it's time that the left started picking a few fights of our own. Call out their bigots, crooks and hypocrites, and force the whole movement to either embrace or reject them -- publically, and as frequently as possible. We seem to spend so much time being angry about being victims of this kind of tactic. Why not start turning it right back against them instead? If they want to exploit our willingness to defend the rights of the minority, why not start exploiting their willingness to stand with the crooks, the bigots and the Robber Barons? We are FAR less marginal than they are, even at our most extreme, but there just seems to be this sense out there that Good People Just Don't Do That Sort Of Thing. Well, so far it appears to me that the Good People are getting bloodied because we simply won't fight back. And the more they see that in us, the further over the line they're going to go. So, instead of just blocking and blocking and block every abusive punch they throw at us (until we're beaten and bloodied and ineffective), it just seems to me that maybe we need to start hitting back and forcing them to defend against US for a change.

Anyway, I got off on a bit of a rant there (me? ranting on DU? Imagine that :) ). But still, I hope there's something in there that contributes a little to the dialogue, albeit in my typical overly-aggitated manner.


MDN

[neweurope]

23. You're right. Action, not reaction is the word!

[Thurston Howell IV]

29. Counterattacking is a good idea

Something that really gets their goat is calling them on racism. Republicans are very sensitive to the charge -- large portions of the middle class who support Republicans do not want to (consciously) support racism. Rush Limbaugh is a good target here. He makes comments that cross the line regularly on this issue.

A lot of good points being made on this thread. The question is, how do we turn this into action?

[countryjake]

21. Can I add a #4?

4. Patriarchal society. The entire concept of "the family" as valued by conservative leaders is disrupted & threatened by anything which strays from the tradition of fathers as the head of the household & obedient wives, serving as exclusive breeders, producing offspring, maintaining & continuing one man's "family" unit.

Just as, not so long ago in this country (USA), wives & children were looked upon as "possessions" of the husband, with hardly any individual rights, the trend to condemn most of the steps forward we've made to change that shows how desperately threatened our ruling class must feel, as they spout off about "returning to moral values". It's got nothing to do with religion or Christian values at all, except for how an organized group (such as a church) can be used to promote & preserve a political system

The attack on homosexuality goes hand in hand with the fight against abortion rights...some of them have even described the pill & use of condoms as homosexuality in heterosexual relations. They see it as one concise battle, that's why we keep hearing about preserving the traditional family.

We're the ones who need to make that connection & demand an end to any second-class citizenship, whatsoever. An attack on homosexuality is an attack on any & all minorities & is not actually separate from the attempts to restrict birth control & deny abortion or even from preventing intelligent sex-ed & promoting abstinence instead...they all stem from the same exact fear. The battle is against patriarchy & the system which cannot survive without it.

[UL_Approved]

22. I agree

This is a point I should have mentioned. I am counting the days until protest comes to a head in this country. I guess that the forces of oppression are on us. I just hope that people in this country really do believe in freedom.

[SemperEadem]

30. they are this century's witches for huntinhg, drowning and burning

[Ediacara]

9. What Disinfo BS

Everyone in Africa is going to be dead in 20 years. When people rally with signs that say:

"Condoms are completely not effective."

The end of the world is nigh...

When this level of hate is acceptable:

"You can sense the cynicism and animosity," he told Reuters. "We are promoting abstinence because Uganda is under attack from an agenda driven by homosexuals and Western experts who are out of touch with how the AIDS epidemic is driven in Africa."

As he spoke, a group of teenage boys walked past carrying a homemade sign saying: "Please open your eyes and ears homos."

It makes me want to give up on this planet...

[Thurston Howell IV]

15. There are many reasons to give up on the planet

The post by Magellan discussing the devastating effects of AIDS on women in Africa, and the horrendous abuse they suffer is yet another one. There are many more -- I won't list them because my point isn't to drive you to despair.

I derive inspiration in looking back on history and seeing that real progress has been made over time. The founding of democracies, the abolition of slavery, women's rights, child labor laws, our understanding of mental illness and how we deal with it, increases in health and longevity, etc, etc... None of which is to say that those gains are fully realized, or to deny that there is still much evil and injustice in the world or even to ignore that Bush/Cheney is working actively to dismantle a lot of that progress. Unfortunately, slow progress is the rule, but there is progress nonetheless.

I also get inspiration from people like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Noam Chomsky. They were/are fully aware of the evils of the world, but chose to continue the struggle and make a very real impact on the world.

Our connections to others, either immediate ones like friends and family, or more distant/abstract ones like community, are important in helping to sustain one over the long haul too.

And, as Nietzche said, the thought of suicide gets one through many a long night. But jeez, I hope it ain't that bad!

[BUSHOUT]

11. Mmmmmmm. virgins. yummy!

:evilgrin:

[magellan]

12. These people are uninformed

It isn't homosexuality that's spreading HIV/AIDs the fastest and saving it till marriage is no protection for women. From the Democracy Now! website, an excerpt from Amy Goodman's Dec 1, 2004 interview with Stephen Lewis, United Nations Special Envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa:

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about the global picture.

STEPHEN LEWIS: Well, the global picture is very depressing. The report of November 23, just a week or so ago, the update until the end of 2004 indicated that it is women in particular who are vulnerable and they are. They are incredibly disproportionately vulnerable. They are more vulnerable physiologically and they are more vulnerable because of gender inequality, because of cultural inequality. You indicated, when you were reading earlier, that 57% of all of the infections in Africa now are amongst women. Amy, in the age group 15 to 24, where there are over six million people infected, 75% are young women and girls. I mean it is appalling what is happening. We are depopulating parts of the continent of its women where we're using language like women are an endangered species in certain countries and it’s objectively true. And the inability of women to refuse sexual overtures, to say to a man wear a condom, to negotiate safe sex, the destructive power relations around sexuality in areas of gender inequality are dooming women in huge numbers and there is no infrastructure, legal construct, which says women have property rights, inheritance rights...there are tough laws against sexual violence and rape because when societies are falling apart there's a lot of sexual violence and that spreads the virus as well. The virus spreads in significant measure by predatory male sexual behavior, and we are trying around the world to shore up those women's rights activists who are trying to empower women and inch our way toward gender equality. That's the only way to break the back of the pandemic because the women carry the burden of care, they do all the work and they are being ferociously assaulted by the virus.

(Lewis is the former Canadian Ambassador to the U.N. and a former Unicef official. In May 2003 he founded the Stephen Lewis Foundation to help women dying of AIDS in Africa and the orphans they leave behind.)

See the entire rush transcript: UN Special Envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa: "The World is Facing an Apocalypse and the Int'l Community Response is Abysmal"

[KitSileya]

24. It isn't that they're uninformed.

They're MISinformed. The Catholic Church is actively promoting the belief that condoms do not block the virus, that the virus is smaller than the microscopic holes in the condom. This is hogwash, of course, but as long as the Church keeps pushing this from Manila to Nairobi to Nicaragua, girls, especially Catholic girls, are going to keep getting infected. It's a disgrace, and it isn't alleviated by the hamstinging Bush is giving health organizations with his gag rule.

[Ms_Mary]

27. As is much of Bush's abstinece only education push.

It's one of my biggest social complaints against him. To withhold information is to misinform. To misinform with the intent of withholding information is criminal, IMO.

[essarhaddon]

16. stupid virgins

They don't understand that their virginity is a victory of some nutty and evil men over their bodies. Curious that the virgins are usually females. Virginity in their case is not a victory of willpower, is a victory of chauvinism and machismo over the female body. Even I can see that, in spite of being a male who deeply distrusts feminism.

[mademoiselle defarge]

25. Why do you deeply distrust feminism essarhaddon?

[essarhaddon]

28. Because thin is the line

separating a constructive, legitimate feminism, from a vindictive feminism that views all men as oppressors.

[zann725]

18. Well, this is the season of Virgin birth!

Anything IS possible!

[xchrom]

26. the disease in the christian church has spread

hysteria, superstition, marginalizing ''foes'' and corraling the ''faithful'', creating false tenents, marshaling hate as love.
the christian church is going to be a very different thing in a few short years -- and it is creating a new war.
i'll be interested to see where all this goes.

[Dr Fate]

32. Christmas is the season for "..round young virgins.." is it not?

n/t

[DS1]

33. It's not an official rally until it's crashed by the Free Mumia crowd

:-)