United States Accused Of Interfering In Ukraine's Election

[GHOSTDANCER]

KIEV, Ukraine -- Ukraine's prime minister said it's "obvious" that the United States is meddling in the country's presidential election.

Viktor Yanukovych claims that Americans financed his rival's presidential campaign. He told The Associated Press that U.S. funding is being used to exert the will of Americans on Ukraine.

Yanukovych is facing another election against rival Viktor Yushchenko. The first runoff was marred by allegations of fraud.
<http://www.wpbfnews.com/news/3993039/detail.html>

It's not hard to believe. We've been meddling in the rest of the worlds elections for the past 50 years.

[bobbobbins]

1. but it could also be a tactic by the prime minister...

just to capitalize on the worlds hatred for the US.

[GHOSTDANCER]

3. o ya?

The Bush administration has spent more than $65 million in the past two years in Ukraine as part of a democracy-building program. But officials said no American funds were sent directly to Ukrainian political parties.

[Higans]

34. It Must be getting pretty hard to get people to use the

Vapor votes that they have been spending who know how long tricking the population with.

This planet is ours People. All Humans. Not just slaves at some work station. Or Fodder for some endless war.

What is our goal in Iraq any way? Oh I get it, To get the whole planet to use vapor voting. Right. And to rig every single election Until finally we get it. then what? is Arnold the Ruler of earth? or is Bush keeping it for himself?

Things that make you go Hmmmmm........

[dolstein]

2. I certainly hope so . . .

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to see a DU post that actually supports a PM who was elected as a result of widespread fraud and the poisoning of the leading opposition candidate.

Considering how thoroughly corrupt Ukraine's incumbent rulers are, I would be greatly disappointed if the United States DIDN'T provide support to the opposition.

[makhno]

5. On Ukrainian corruption

Here's a primer:

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=4072

Remember, Yushchenko is very much part of the incumbent regime and so is his sidekick, Timoshenko.

[allemand]

16. I have a hard time taking someone seriously who quotes John Laughland

(that supporter of Mugabe, Milosevic and French Fascist Le Pen) and who thinks that George Soros is part of a neocon conspiracy.

[makhno]

17. When running on empty, attack the messenger

What in Laughland's minor quote in that article strikes you as incorrect? The fact that containing Russia is a fundamental goal of US foreign policy? The fact that 90% of Russian oil and gas exports to Europe transition through Ukraine, thereby making the country an obvious item on the neocons' geopolitical agenda?

Dodging the fact that Yushchenko is little more than a corrupt puppet serving well-known foreign and domestic interests will not magically turn the "orange revolution" into a democratic fairy tale.

Tell me, what in Yushchenko's and Timoshenko's past makes you think that their rule will be any different from, say, the nightmare Russia went through under Yeltsin and his IMF cronies?

[allemand]

20. As I wrote in an earlier post

there sometimes seems to be confusion between two questions:
1. Who won the elections in Ukraine?
2. Whose politics would be the best for the country?

The second question is irrelevant when we are discussing voting irregularities. Even if Yanakovich were better for Ukraine that wouldn't justify rigging the elections.

I am happy to let the second question be decided by Ukainians themselves. The great thing about democracy is that people can vote politicians out of office if they are dissatisfied with them.

I think the fact that the European Union is geographically so close to Ukraine will be a positive factor and beneficial for the democratic process there. Whoever wins the elections will be under close scrutiny not only by other European governments but also by the European press.
The EU will also put pressure on the winner to be open for dialog and reach out to the other side in a country as divided as Ukraine.

Regarding Laughland, I simply find it suspicious if somebody quotes an author who has expressed sympathies for fascists like Le Pen.

[makhno]

23. Absolutely

And it's hard to separate one's own view of what should be from the what is as decided by the people. However, it is also difficult to take reports of voting irregularities in Yanukovich districts seriously, when the media so brazenly ignores similar activities in the regions controlled by Yushchenko's political machine.

As I see it, the country will be fucked no matter what. People camping out in Independence Square should talk to those who were out in the streets of Moscow in August '91, fighting to have their livelihoods snuffed by Yeltsin and his Harvard-educated cronies.

[TankLV]

31. Yushchenko doesn't have a "political machine". The Russian puppet

currently installed has prevented meetings from being held by Yushchenko's supporters = just like our own repuke brownshirts. NO puplicity, no airtime on media - only word of mouth and the dedication of his supporters who refuse to be bullied by the current regime.

You don't know what you're talking about. I've read extensively on the subject - my family gets lots of mail and stuff from family and friends there.

[makhno]

36. Of course not, he's a true man of the people, so says the myth machine

Let's conveniently forget his time as chief of the UCB, a turbulent, corrupt time in Ukrainian politics if memory serves me correctly. Let's also forget his sidekick, Timoshenko, a thief who makes scumbags like Chubais look like choir boys. Perhaps we should also forget the outpour of support from our own propaganda sources for Yushchenko. If nothing else, that single factor should make any critical person reasses his or her support for the cause at hand.

Frankly, I don't know where your friends live, but mine've been telling me it's all Yushchenko all the time in Lviv and other russophobic parts of the country. And even here, removed as I am from the events, I don't see much violence against the neocons' puppet's supporters in the streets of Kiev.

[TankLV]

30. That is just your opinion - certainly not the views of the Ukrainians.

No one is a saint. But the existing regime is the corrupt faction.

Yushchenko's party is fighting for the Ukrainian People.

[makhno]

37. Ah, the 50% mandate!

Just like here at home!

[Voltaire99]

6. Nor should we be surprised...

...to find you supporting imperialism once more, Dolstein.

Has the bitter taste of the misadventure in Iraq not begun to sour your adventurer's tongue?

[makhno]

7. It's amazing

I'm baffled by the number of ostensibly progressive people on this site who eat up government propaganda on the goings on in Ukraine.

[dolstein]

12. Putin's the imperialist

I have absolutely no qualms about offering support to the political opposition when the party in power is actively supported by Putin and will to such lengths as poisining the opposition leader in order to stay in power.

But hey, if you want to side with Putin, that's certainly your right.

[NNN0LHI]

14. But you don't Know who poisoned anyone. Do you?

Could be his American wife Kathy, that used to work in the Reagan administration that did the poisoning for all any of us know? Maybe trying to collect the insurance? See. My guess was just as good as yours.

Don

[Judi Lynn]

24. Thanks for the info. on his wife. I was WONDERING what her story was

when I heard her accent on a news story lately. I was so surprised! What ARE the chances a guy who's _Bush's front man would marry a Reagan employee?

Whoa!

Her photo:

She is a Ukrainian-American born in Chicago and a former official with the U.S. State Department, where she worked as a special assistant to the Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights and Humanitarian Affairs. Opponents of Yushchenko have criticized her for remaining a U.S. citizen. During the recent election campaign, Kateryna was accused of exerting the influence of the U.S. government on her husband's decisions, as an employee of the U.S. government or even a CIA agent. She had earlier been accused by Russian television journalist Mikhail Leontyev of leading a U.S. project to help Yushchenko seize power in Ukraine; in January 2002, she won a libel case against him. Ukraine's pro-government Inter television channel repeated Leontyev's allegations in 2001 but in January 2003 she won a libel case against the channel as well.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko

[NNN0LHI]

41. Yep. Yushchenko is being brought to you from the same people who...

...gave us Osama and Saddam. Makes one wonder?

Don

[makhno]

18. Poisoned by the reds, you say?

I'm glad you're privy to such information. Perhaps you should consider selling the scoop to one of our propaganda organs. I'm sure they'll be glad to print uncorroborated "insider information" as they've been doing all along the Ukrainian electoral charade.

Glad to see you've picked the Bush cabal over Putin. And they say liberals hate America!

[LisaL]

26. So, I guess you have no problem siding with Bush?

:eyes:

[TankLV]

32. Dolstein happens to be correct on this one.

And we rarely see eye to eye.

Just because bunkerboy and his gang of thugs happens to be on Yushchenko's side on this one doesn't necessarily follow that Yushchenko is the bad guy here - he's the hero here - fighting for Ukrainian Independence from Russia and Ukrainian nationhood.

Bunkerboy and his gang of criminals might have their own reasons for doing so - they just happen to coincide with the correct side this time. It's all very complictated geopolitically, not always if the idiot pretends to support something, then it must automatically be bad - although it should ALWAYS be suspect and investigated thoroughly.

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

[NNN0LHI]

38. How do we "really" know who is the good guy here?

Lets cut through the chaff. In my life the US government has told be that Osama bin Laden and his Afghan mujahideen were valiant freedom fighters. Now they tell me he is a criminal and a terrorist. Also my government told me that Saddam Hussein was a great American ally when he was killing Iranians for us by the boatload. Now he is Americas enemy and a war criminal. Do you understand my confusion here?

Don

[Crunchy Frog]

11. I just hope that someone out there

will start meddling in our elections. If Ukraine needs it, we sure as hell do too.

[allemand]

15. I didn't know we had so many proud Russian Patriots here at DU...

;-)

[makhno]

19. Sadly outnumbered by PNAC ideologues

:P

[Zorra]

4. Imagine that. A republican administration interfering with the democracy

of another country. Who'd a thunk it?

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

[Endangered Specie]

9. They must have taken notes from Haiti.

[Lucky Luciano]

8. It would not be surprising that we are interfering with

the Ukrainian election....but, the Russians are as well....both sides seem to be corrupted by outside countries...hell, the guy we likely financed was poisoned by the other side! Lots of shady shit!

[NNN0LHI]

10. Don't watch the crap. Which one of these candidates does Fox news support?

Anyone know?

Don

[VegasWolf]

13. Can someone explain what bush thinks he means when he uses the

word "democracy"?

[moondust]

21. How about:

A Wal-Mart Supercenter within a 20-mile radius of EVERYTHING ON PLANET EARTH.

Just a guess.

[VegasWolf]

22. or a Christian god in every classroom. n/t

[LisaL]

27. Bush and Co is in charge of everything and everyone?

[Judi Lynn]

35. Oh, God! Can it be proven he thinks?

What he thinks "democracy" means could be anything.

[VegasWolf]

25. Awol scratched his ass and burped. The CIA thought that was chimp

language for "poision somebody", so they did.

[TankLV]

28. I am SHOCKED! Shocked I tell you!

This comes as a complete surprise!

I'll bo back to my medications now.

[VegasWolf]

29. Hope those are the 'over' the counter kind! n/t

[TankLV]

33. Actually, so far this year, I haven't gottne "bitten" by the bug yet.

Hope I don't jinx myself!

A lot have been fallen with some type of stomach flu at work - I've discovered the joys of all the new martini's at our office christmas party last week - 6 of 'em in fact! It was a goooooood weekend - first one I've had in a loooooong while. I can see how it could be addicting! (we were at the cigar/martini bar at the Rampart Casino in Summerlin).

[VegasWolf]

40. Hey, a friend of my wife hangs out at the Rampart! We live over

in Green Valley. Stay healthy!

[Liberal Grant WI]

39. Agree

wouldn't come as a surprise..like you said we have been influencing elections for years and years.