Venezuela to replace old US aircraft with 50 new Russian MIG-29 Fulcrums

[Minstrel Boy]

Venezuela to replace old US aircraft with 50 new Russian MIG-29 Fulcrums

Dec 15

During a visit to Moscow late last month, Chavez announced his country was planning to modernize its Armed Forces by replacing old European/US equipment with sophisticated hi-tech Russian weaponry ... "We are modernizing and strengthening our armed forces against any form of aggression. We are talking about deliveries of 100,000 Russian machineguns," Chavez told a news conference at that time.

However, it became known later that the operation is far more ambitious than expected. According to the Brazilian newspaper O Estado de Sao Paulo, the strengthening of the Venezuelan army has created concern among top Washington diplomats and its closest ally in South America, the right-wing Colombian administration of President Alvaro Uribe.

Quoting sources at the US intelligence services, O Estado de Sao Paulo says Venezuela is also building a radar network all along its border with equipment provided by Ukraine and China. Despite earlier speculations, Brazil, the southern neighbor of Venezuela is not concerned on these developments. "We see the operation as an internal affair of a friendly nation", O Estado de Sao Paulo quoted Brazil's vice president, Jose Alencar as saying.

...

Also quoting US sources, O Estado de Sao Paulo said Washington would "closely follow the operation", as per declared by the communications director of the US National Security Council, Sean McCormack. Even the incumbent US State Secretary for Latin America, Roger Noriega, had something to say about that: "I think that Venezuela's bordering nations may have something to say about Chavez's decision to purchase combat aircrafts to Russia." Since 2000, the United States has provided Bogota with US$3.3 billion in mostly military assistance, and President Bush promised more when he visited Colombia on November 22. It is, indeed, Latin America's main destiny of US military aid.

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=23952

Roger Noriega

[BayCityProgressive]

1. Good

Chavez is planning ahead. I wouldn't be surprised if the US were planning an attack there. This also strengthens the hand of Cuba, Venezuela's strongest ally.

[madrchsod]

2. Chavez pokes the bush in the eye

and pleases his military by buying them new weapons and these purchases are in good ol`e american greenbacks...oh by the way,this is a very good plane ,so good in fact, that the germans have a squadron of them...

[Easy]

11. Germany "inherited" some MiG-29s from the NVA (GDR-Army),

but as far as I know, the Fulcrums have been given to Poland, and the squadron now flies the Eurofighter.

~Easy

[Florida_Geek]

3. But But But Bush's Friends will not make a dime on this

LOCKHEED MARTIN will be sooooooo pissed that an oil rich country with $$$$ is not buying from them....

[Bono71]

4. The Lockheed planes are probably too expensive...

in all seriousness, they probably don't care.

[Florida_Geek]

6. 4 - 6 Billion is not cump change

plus



the drong type air refueling probably means ... Oh God they will buy the Aerobus tankers.....

[leveymg]

5. Look at What Happened After Noriega Tried to Buy Mig-21s

The planned purchase of Mig-21s to bring down Contra supply aircraft was a prime rationale for more overt US efforts to bring down the Sandinista Gov't in Nicaragua in the early 1980s. They succeeded.

Venezuela should buy some nice Eurofighters, instead. They come with a better warranty - all the oil changes are included.

Has Chavez lost his mind, or is this just Bushco propaganda?

[Dhalgren]

7. Good for Chavez!

The Fascist States of America need to be boycotted on all fronts. The more isolated this oozing pustule is the better. Any aggressive move by the Emperor George-Caligula and his minions will only solidify the growing world-wide opposition.

[Bono71]

8. I am no expert on Venezuela, but I would imagine they sell

the US tons of oil...

so much for "the boycott."

[BayCityProgressive]

9. they do

however a 16% tax has been placed on it.

[Bono71]

13. Interesting...explains why both Democrats and Republicans seem

so interested in the country.

[Dhalgren]

10. Oh, if the FSA wants to give Venezuela money, that's fine,

but Venezuela will do its shopping elsewhere...

[Bono71]

12. I bet Venezuela brings in imports from the US (admit, I may be wrong).

[leveymg]

14. In a calming tone of voice, he said . . .

Do you really talk like that, Dhalgren?

Sounded like I was listening to the Pyongyang News Hour on shortwave.

Joke, yes? Smile. Doesn't blink.

- Mark

[Dhalgren]

15. Yes, I often talk like that. (Smiles, doesn't blink)

You see, I am against this government. This is a government of thugs, criminals and psycho/sociopaths. This government is in the process of murdering thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians, all in order to rob them of their resources and to establish an outpost for empire in "oil country". So anything that helps to impede this malignant government of ours is an overall good - globally speaking (winks, smiles).

[leveymg]

19. If it were only so easy to jawbone them to death . . .

we'd have rid the world of all evil men in suits a long time ago. Alas, we are still ruled by evil men in suits backed by satellite-guided cruise missiles, fighter-bomber squadrons, armoured columns, and Special Forces brigades.

Makes one marvel at the bravery of those who really do fight them.

Sad smile, sigh - Mark

[Dhalgren]

21. Buck up!

We will all get the chance to display physical bravery, all too soon. Every fight begins somewhere; some little thing that seems innocuous at the time. Each person will have a roll to play - you know, the folks who ran the Underground Railroad, back in slavery days, were heroes, too... In Iraq, right now, there may be upwards to 30,000 resistance fighters actually doing the fighting, but there are many, many times that many making the fight possible.

[leveymg]

27. This is like Spain in 1936.

Dahlgren -

Why does history repeat itself all the time? Revanche, revolution, revanche. Why can't humanity break free, solve its problems on the ground, and reach for the stars?

Someone has to break this vicious cycle.

Okay, let's go back to the beginning of the Spanish Civil War. If you were in America, what would you have done? What would you recommend I do? What should we do differently this time?

- Mark

[Dhalgren]

47. I wish I were wiser...

Man, Mark, how does anyone answer questions like those? I know what I would like to think I would have done back in the early '30s, but I am not sure I would have had the courage. I agree that Humanity seems determined to prove itself less than even our most modest expectations, but we have to make stands - from time to time - against the worst of our species. Just think what we could accomplish, if all the money, time, and effort that is currently expended, world-wide, on wars and greed and dominance were spent, instead, on food, clothing, shelter, science, education, and (yes) even enlightenment? I can hardly bring myself to think of it. This is one (among many) reasons why I become so angry at the soulless idiots who are dragging the whole world down such a savage path; a path with a very visible end.

But we have to stand up on our legs and ball our fists tight and resist - however we can, wherever we are. We simply don't have an alternative.

Thanks for the exchange...

[Vidar]

16. I like Chavez more and more.

[cornfedyank]

17. screw all warmongers

wage peace it's cheaper.

they can kill us, but they can't eat us.

[Tyler Durden]

22. Don't bet on that.

Texans will bar-b-que ANYTHING. I was marooned in Houston for 10 years; I KNOW.

[Bono71]

23. Is it bad to barbeque anything...man I love Texas bbq!

[cornfedyank]

35. they can barbeque my body, but not my spirit.

i hope they choke on the gristle.

"live simply that others may simply live"..mahandus ghandi

[Alpharetta]

18. That's a lot of planes

I'd be buying SAM's and helicopters first. Makes me wonder what his total military budget is.

The details of defending the border with Brazil is a red herring by the author. If he didn't put radar there, you think attackers would ask Brazil for permission to use their airspace? Of course not.

He's not crazy. The obscenely wasteful US-led militarization of Colombia compels him to ramp up Venezuela's military.

[Bono71]

20. Knowing very little about Venezuela do they have a history of

war with Colombia and other South American countries?

[goforit]

25. Not really.....But the Bush PNAC always have.

It is a very wealthy country that the US has been eyeing
for the last 40 years.

Bush regime has been peddling drugs in Columbia for years.Thats why this administration supported the #1 Drug Lord to lead their country(Columbia).
They don't want Ven. to interfere with this business, much less trying an attempt to conquere their oil reserves.
US pretends that they are destroying the drug empire while under the table they are making a huge profit.

[Bono71]

26. Hold on...

You wrote:

1) "Bush regime has been peddling drugs in Columbia for years."

Do you mean since 2000? How long has this been going on, and what are your sources.

2) What does PNAC mean?

3) How is the US government making a profit off of the drug trade? Which part of the US would that be? I am interested because my brother is a DEA agent.

[Alpharetta]

40. I'll answer some of your questions

You ask what PNAC means. The Partnership for a New American Century is interested in a global military presence for the U.S. They have stated it is important to protect oil resources.

You ask how the US government makes a profit off the drug trade. If you can accept the fact that our government is run by corporations who fund candidates and write policy for their pawns to enact, then it's simply a matter of listing all those who profit from this drug war:
- prison builders
- prison staffing companies
- security companies
- military suppliers
- suppliers to law enforcement
- the pharmaceutical companies

[goforit]

41. In response.......

"peddling" in my vocabulary doesn't mean selling off the street.

It means They have been using Drugs and the destruction of drugs
as a PR scam.
Profiting?...........Monsanto products used to destroy the cocain,
while crack cocain is at its highest usage in history in the US in the last 5 years.
And as of this year heroin is soaring.
Where is heroin from?.......take a guess.
Who is the PNAC?......Look through the archives and do your homework.
Better yet.........google it.

[Tinoire]

44. PNAC...

You have the neo-conservatives and their PNAC who have hijacked the Republican party.

then you have the neo-Liberals and their PPI who are so closely allied with the DLC (Democratic Leadership Council) that they make joint announcements on their appointments. There's a real rotating door between those two. They have hijacked the Democratic Party.

PNAC and PPI are both pretty much the same. http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/ppi.php

If you need to read up, we've got a ton of research on this but a good place to start (for lurkers) is http://www.pnac.info/blog/archives/cat_the_pnac_opposition.html

The Lay of the Land for you & background info here: http://www.garlicandgrass.org/issue5/intro.cfm

[IndianaGreen]

28. Not to mention the sordid history of US intervention in Latin America

Any nation that does not want to end up like Iraq should get top of the line Chinese and Russian weapons, and should have an active WMD program including battlefield nukes to repel an aggressor.

It is sad that the US is now the greatest threat to the peace and security of the entire planet.

[Supersedeas]

24. Hey....what's with Israel and Russia getting all the cushy Def. Contractor

work.

[Chicago Democrat]

29. Simpson's kid says: "HA ha!"

payback's a bitch

[Polemicist]

30. Isn't the MIG-29, "old iron"?

and a generation behind the west, especially in avionics? Isn't Chavez just spending billions for 50 new "target drones" if the US really wanted to take them out?

I understand making political statements, but Russia is a semi-fascist one party state and a fellow oil exporter. I don't see how this purchase gains Chavez much international "capital".

Would he be wiser to buy 50 Eurofighters that would stand a chance against US or Columbian aircraft? And be purchasing from oil importing, liberal democracies that could support a fellow democracy in many ways.

Somebody needs to explain the logic in this one to me.

[Democracy Died 2004]

31. the f-16 and f-15 are as old as Mig-29

so what is the diff? If an airframe is good, and trust me the mig-29 is, why dump it for a new fangled plane? I fully understand why the purchase will be made. Next war will require much fly by seat of your pants aviating and the mig-29 is very simplistic as far as avionics go.

[happyslug]

32. Jets hit a plateau in the 1960s

That Plateau being how fast a plane can go and still maneuver (Around 800-900mph). If you go faster than 900 mph your ability to maneuver just ends, the fuel needed to maintain that speed makes the plane very heavy (See the SR-71 and MIG-25 for examples).

Thus once planes hit the 900 mph mark in the 1960s the trend has NOT been to faster planes but more and more electronics. Thus Jets of the 1950s rarely were "first line" for more than five years at a time, being replaced by better planes every five years or so. Once you get to the late 1960s that improvement ends and you get the the F-14 and F-15 being "First Line" since 1972 (Almost 30 years).

Furthermore electronics have become smaller as the same electronics became more powerful. Thus a F-15 of 1972 if it was still flying (and it may be for all I know) will have Had at least 3-4 complete change in electronics since it first flew. In effect the first F-15 is not as good as todays F-15 even if it is the same plane (Do to the improvement in electronics).

The same with the MIG-29, a good plane whose electronics have been greatly increased since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Now we are used to electronics being better and better every six months. This is the effect of the vast improvements in Computers in the 1990s. Most of these computers are made in Asia so Russia has as much access to them as the US does. A Plateau seems to have hit the electronic industry just like a plateau hit the Jet Speed race in the 1960s. That plateau being the speed of the human-computer interface more than any reduction in the improvement in Computer speed. As I told someone do you really need a better word processor than Word Perfect 7.0? 8.0, 9.0 and 10.0 are better but even the jump from 7.0 to 10.0 is not as big as the jump was from Typewriters to the First Word Processors, and that jump was bigger than the jump from Word Star (I am showing my age) to Word Perfect 7.0.

Now unlike the increase in speed of Jet Fighters in the 1960s the increase speed of the newer electronics have not produced any side affects that stops the increase in electronic development. On the other hand you are now in an age where each new electronic development is very incremental compared to the first uses of computers, and even incremental compared to the computers use din the early 1990s.

Thus the MIG-29 with 2000 electronics probably is good enough to hold its own with the latest US version of the F-15 (and probably enough to hold its own with the Vaulted F-22 Raptor whenever it is actually fielded). Is the F-15 a better plane than the MIG-29? yes, but is the difference similar to the Difference between a Typewriter and a Computer with Word Perfect 10.0, or is the difference more like the Difference between Word Perfect 7.0 and 10.0? I lean to the latter, which means the MIG-29 is good enough for what Venezuela wants it for (To put up SOME air Defense against an American attack, not to defeat the attack just put up some defense that increases the US costs to attack).

Remember Chavez knows that he can not defeat the US in any Air Combat Fight, or even a Conventional War. On the other hand if Chavez increases the costs of the US to do such an attack Chavez may be able to avoid being attacked at all (Or at least force the US to come out in the open in any attack on his country).

Thus the purchase of the MIGs is a good decision, given the political situation in both Venezuela and Columbia.

[leveymg]

33. The jet is a missile platform, what's important is the avionics-AWACS

For 30 years, missiles could pull more G's than fighters. Fighters can turn faster than the pilot can withstand G-forces for 40 years. None of this really matters if you can "see" the opponent and he can't "paint" you. It's who shoots first. That means the guy with best AWACS, radar jammers, satellites and missiles wins. The jets are almost beside the point -- there's little to distinguish them, really, on the battlefield.

The military bottom line is, the US has supremacy in all the above, Venezuela is just buying a $4-6 billion middle finger in the air by going with Russian iron. Strategically, they're gambling that the US won't attack a Russian client-state. They shouldn't bet the bank.

- Mark

[happyslug]

49. In the early 1970s....

When the US Military improved its training of its Fighter Pilots, the US Military did the improvement by developing "Aggressor" Squadrons to fight the "Regular" pilots. This is your "Top Gun" Etc programs. In those early days the US had a shortage of Soviet Airplanes to use as "Aggressors", so the US used "Downgraded" F-5s with all of their American Electronics removed. The Pilots flying these planes did not like the situation so they went to Radio Shack and purchased Automotive Radar Detectors and adjusted them to the wave length of the Radar used in American Missiles.

In the subsequent air combat the Aggressors developed a policy of firing on detection. i.e. Whenever the Radar Detectors went off, they would fire their missiles based on the incoming Radar signal, they would NOT wait for their radar to pick up the enemy plane, they would just launch their missiles at the radar signal. AS a result their missiles were in flight AGAINST the "American" plane as their own plane was "burning". In simple terms, in these simulation of actual air combat, the Aggressors were all shot down, but they also shot down the planes shotting them down.

From want I have read since the early 1970s the above has NOT changed. During the Iraq-Iran war there were constant reports of French Mercenaries (and other mercenary pilots) flying the Iraqi jets against the Iranians. When Desert Storm came about these mercenaries all left thus Saddam had no pilots to fly his planes (and the ones that did fly the pilots seem to be barely able to take off and land let alone do any air combat). Thus Desert Storm seems NOT to be a good test for American Air Craft Superiority. The Recent War was worse to compare AIRCRAFT superiority, for while Saddam was able to somewhat improve and upgrade his ground forces, his Air Forces just went down hill (Thus no planes took off in the recent War).

The Israeli-Arab conflicts are more interesting. The problem with that conflict is the only direct conflict since the Yom Kipper War of 1973 was the Syrian interference with the Israeli Invasion of Lebanon in 1982. In that conflict the American made F-15s were superior to the Soviets MIG-23s flown by the Syrians. This appears to be more do to the Superior electronics in the F-15s of 1982 to the Electronics of the MIG-23s of 1982 than any real difference in the planes (Through the MIG-23 is a early 1960 design compared to the 1972 design of the F-15, furthermore the MIG-23 appears to have been designed as a Fighter-Bomber/Attack Plane more than the pure fighter of the F-15).

Thus the MIG-29 and SU-27 were design in response to the F-15 and appears almost a decade after the F-15. I have not read of any direct conflict between the three planes (Remember the Syrian were flying MIG-23s, MIG-25s and MIG-27s, all early 1960s designs, not the MIG-29 or SU-27s). While the MIG-29 were in Saddam's Arsenal During Desert Storm he only used one or two in Combat the Rest he flew to safety in Iran (Or shot down in the Attempt to get to Iran).

Here is what the Federation of American Scientist have to say about the MIG-29 and F-15 (For Details see:)
http://fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-29.htm

"The MIG-29 has a few advantages over its more electronically advanced American counterparts. At about 40 miles apart, the American planes have the advantage because of avionics. At 10 miles the advantage is turning to the MIG. At five miles out, because of the MIG weapons sight and better maneuverability, the advantage is to the MIG."

[Randi_Listener]

34. You're wrong.

The Mig-29 outclasses the F-15E in almost every relevant category.

[Carl Brennan]

38. Good write up. I worked on F-4's on

the flight-deck of an aircraft carrier back in the 70's. The F-14 was a quantum leap ahead of anything that was ever produced in the East. It was like a gun to the bow and arrow.

I like your take on Chavez's probable use of the Migs. If the US launched an air attack with Migs around the US support ships would be more vulnerable to attack. But I have this feeling that the airwar would be alot like what happened in Iraq: the Iraqi planes could not move without being spotted due to US high tech surveillance.

But the US could not launch an attack on Venezuela now even if it wanted to. It doesn't have the manpower and in order to subdue the country they would have to take it in a ground assault.

In a weird way the Iraq War has given Venezuela breathing space to determine its own destiny. Let's hope other countries can do the same without the US trying to beat them into submission.

[Randi_Listener]

36. Pilots being equal, the Mig-29 is as good as any dogfighter we have.

Put it up against the F-16 or F-15 or F-18 or F-14 and the Mig-29 is the better fighter.

[Selatius]

39. MiG-29s can be extremely formidable with right avionics and a good pilot

Russia sells avionics upgrade packages to nations that possess its warplanes such as China, India, Poland, various other nations of the old Soviet bloc, and now Venezuela. Of course, if a nation doesn't upgrade avionics in its fleet of MiG-29s, they will eventually grow obsolete, but these packages are a practical way of keeping these machines up-to-date. Of course, the truly state-of-the-art equipment is still reserved for Russian models, not its export versions.

Customers who buy Mikoyan-Gurevich or Sukhoi warplanes usually sign licensing agreements dealing with upgrades to engines and avionics, maintenance of the planes, etc. It's part of the package.

[Carl Brennan]

37. Who is a more reliable source

of parts and supplies: Russia or the US?

The US MIC has shot itself in the foot on this by being so hostile to Chavez. Heck, if I was Chavez I would be very worried about cooperation with the US on supplying parts and tech help on aircraft purchased.

All the US has to do is recognize Chavez as the democratically elected leader of the country.

[ausiedownunderground]

42. Venezuela would be the jungle version of Iraq!

Venezuela has only 2 classes - upperclasses making up about 5% of the population and lowerclasses making up 95% of the poulation. Chavez caters for the second. There is no real middle class in Venezuela. The upper echalons mainly existed on the oil money and on denying education and health resources to the rest of the country thus dumbing down the population while keeping its life expectancy short. Actually this sounds a liitle bit like another country i know? Chavez is out of the military but originally comes from a poor native venezuelan background, rather than a spanish conquistidor ancestery. Chavez is definately not perfect as shown by the fact that he lead a failed military coup in Venezuela. However he knows how to get his natural constituency onside. He is the first Venezuelan leader to direct huge sums of oil money to the 95% lowerclasses at the expense of the upperclasses. His policies focus on education and health of the lowerclasses. Over time if allowed to his government may well actually develop a solid middle class in Venezuela. Like any leader he has probably squandered some of the oil money but by comparison to previous Venezuelan leaders the majority of Venezuelans are finally getting something from their vast oil reserves. This is why he is supported so strongly by the lower classes. It is this constituency that has saved his bacon on 2 occassions from CIA backed coup attempts. Like in Iraq The Bush Gang has not done its homework on its likely oppossition should the smirking chimp decide to "Bring it on Hugo"! Resistance to a Bush invasion would be huge!! If Chavez is clever he will already be stockpiling Kalashnikovs, Rocket proppelled Grenades, plastic explosives, mines, Igla anti aircraft missiles and kornet anti tank missiles in jungle weapon piles all over Venezuela - a la Saddam in Iraq in anticipation of a guerrilla war against whats left of the US army and Marines. The expensive weapon purchases of MIG-29 Fulcrums and rumoured "Sunburn" surface to surface and surface to ship missiles is probably for posturing reasons only! It'll be the majority of the population supported Guerilla war that will "Kick the Rethugs butts" out eventually. You would have thought that the US would have learnt this fighting philosophy by now???
However i must also add that i have seen the MIG-29 Fulcrum take on an F-18 Hornet a few years ago in a mock dogfight at one of Oz's international air shows at Avalon Air Base. The MIG won, but not because of its speed but because of its awesome manuevarability advantage. In fact after the dogfight the MIG-29 pilot treated the huge crowd to breathtaking display of its acrobatic potential. Everyone was talking about it after the show - it was definately the highlight. If Chavez can hire some russian merc pilots to fly them for him i dont think USAF pilots would find it a piece of cake! taking over the skies over Venezuela!

[DoNotRefill]

43. Well, if they're going from the AR or FAL or G-3 series to the AK....

It's going to mean a HUGE drop in military effectiveness. Past 400 yards, an AK is useless, to the point that you might as well be throwing rocks as shooting.

[happyslug]

50. With the Average combat being 90 Yards?

Now the AK-47 is indeed marginal over 400 yards (The AK sight is only set for 50 and 300 yards) but not a significant disadvantage given that average combat is 90 yards. 90% of all infantry fights are within 300 yards (95% within 400 yards).

Furthermore the Russians always equipped their Platoons with at least one long range rifle (Generally the SVD) for any action over 400 yards (and this "sharpshooter" is generally the third in command of the Platoon and follows the Platoon leader in any attack). Thus while adoption of the AK reduces the range of each soldier, adoption of the whole Soviet Weapons system does not. The later is what Chavez appears to be doing, not just adopting AKs. The combat mix of AKs, SVDs, RPKs, and PKs. I suspect he may get the SVDs and PKs in 7.62mm NATO so to have exchangeable with his existing weapons. TO my knowledge he does not have any M-16s (But I did read a report his troops did have some Israeli GALILs). Thus Chavez may order the AKs in 5.56mm, but the 7.62 x39 and 5.45x39 are also very good rounds (for all practical purposes as good as the 5.56x45mm M-16 Round).

My point here is what Chavez is buying is a complete weapons system NOT just some AKs. The Weapons System is as good as the American M-16, M249, M240 (The FN MAG in US Service) and M24 (The Remington 700 Sniper Rifle used by the US) weapons system.

[DoNotRefill]

52. I think you'll find...

that US forces are ROUTINELY engaging targets at distances greater than 700 yards nowadays, and geting hits at that range. And I'm not talking about snipers and the m-249/240 folks, I'm talking about your average 11-bravo.

[happyslug]

53. That is NOT the reports I am hearing

If you drop out the traditional and non-traditional "Snipers" using the M24 system or the Barrett 50 Caliber Sniper Rifles (and variations of both) I have not heard of ANY 11B taking on anyone above 300 meters/yards.

Now during the Invasion I read a report of the 82nd Airborne issuing M-14s to some of their troops, generally one per squad, but that is similar to how the Russians use their SVDs, more than how the US uses their M24s.

While I heard of the 82nd airborne using M-14s I have NOT heard of any other unit using M14s. I have read of units using AKs (Do to lack of M16s).

From the reports I have read good reports when a full power cartridge weapon is issued on one to a American Squad or one to a Russian Platoon basis (The typical Russian Platoon are much smaller than an American Platoon, almost the size of two American infantry Squads). The full power cartridges weapon gives the Squad/Platoon an ability to "Reach out and touch someone" ability. One the other hand, the weapon do to the power of its cartridge suffers in fire fights where accurate volume is more important than cartridge power. Since the invasion the problem in combat has been such close in firefights NOT long distance firefights (In this I must exclude Snipers who have engaged at these ranges but Snipers have traditionally been in a league of their own, attached but independent of the operations of Squads and Platoons).

Anyway we are discussing CHAVEZ and his adoption of AKs. My point is the adoption of the AK is a good choice for Chavez for the complete weapons system (Which includes the SVD) is a god mix of weapons for combat purposes at typical combat ranges.

One last comment. AS I read more and more about the SVD, it becomes clear that it is NOT a "Sniper" rifles like the M24. Instead it is more like the old M14 in that it is to provide long range firepower to the average trooper (Thus its role in the Soviet Squad). the M24 on the other hand is a specialty weapon carried by snipers operating independent of the Squads and Platoon (Generally attached to Company or Battalion level). The SVD is designed to be used by EVERY Soldier in the Army, while the M24 is designed to be used only be those soldier trained in the art of Sniping. Now the old Soviet Union also had its Snipers and most of them used SVDs, but even these "snipers" preferred a better weapon if it could be had.

Again I am getting off topic, which is the "weapons mix" not which weapon is better than another. The AK/SVD mix is a good mix and has been since both were adopted in the 1960s. It is similar to the M16/M14 mix used by some units in Vietnam and the 82nd Airborne during the Invasion of Iraq. My Point is Chavez's choice is a good choice.

[Judi Lynn]

45. Thanks for posting that Rogershot! Far more handsome than some I've seen

of him! What a genius, he is. What style! What suave....

From the article:

Also quoting US sources, O Estado de Sao Paulo said Washington would "closely follow the operation", as per declared by the communications director of the US National Security Council, Sean McCormack. Even the incumbent US State Secretary for Latin America, Roger Noriega, had something to say about that: "I think that Venezuela's bordering nations may have something to say about Chavez's decision to purchase combat aircrafts to Russia."

Noriega's statement came as green light for US allies in South America to challenge the operation and points out directly to Bogota. Colombia hosts the US second largest embassy in the world, only behind Washington's diplomatic representation in Baghdad.

Since 2000, the United States has provided Bogota with US$3.3 billion in mostly military assistance, and President Bush promised more when he visited Colombia on November 22. It is, indeed, Latin America's main destiny of US military aid.

It is not possible to even think about an armed conflict between Colombia and Venezuela at this time. But, with Colombia being permanently aided by Washington is normal that Venezuelans believe they need to balance the military power of its neighbor.
(snip/...)

I surely didn't know our 2nd largest embassy is in Colombia, f'r crissakes. It'd be great to hear the public explanation for that. It oughta be a doozie.



Which one is Albert Schweitzer? So hard to tell!

[DoNotRefill]

46. Y'all are on crack...

if you think the Venezuelan Air Force, equipped with Mig 29s, could stand up to the US Air Force. Hell, the Venezuelan Air Force, equipped exactly the same as the US Air Force, couldn't stand up to the US Air Force. There's a LOT more to air superiority than the planes.

[Deja Q]

48. Such as the pilots and their training. Of course, as long as the US has a

solid economy, it will never be in danger.

Whoops, did I let the cat out of the bag? O8)

[0007]

54. Like 16% of our oil comes from Venezuela - Get a grip DoNotRefill

[w4rma]

51. Chavez must break out of this Russia/Cuba group and use EU allies. (nt)