White House wants plans for GPS shutdown

[arcos]

White House wants plans for GPS shutdown

Global Positioning System would be disabled during crisis to keep enemies from using it


WASHINGTON - President Bush has ordered plans for temporarily disabling the U.S. network of global positioning satellites during a national crisis to prevent terrorists from using the navigational technology, the White House said Wednesday.

Any shutdown of the network inside the United States would come under only the most remarkable circumstances, said a Bush administration official who spoke to a small group of reporters at the White House on condition of anonymity.

<snip>

The president also instructed the Defense Department to develop plans to disable, in certain areas, an enemy’s access to the U.S. navigational satellites and to similar systems operated by others. The European Union is developing a $4.8 billion satellite navigation program called Galileo.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6720387/



Next headline will be "White House wants plans for Internet shutdown" :eyes:

[xxqqqzme]

1. shutting down the internet

is written between the lines.

[rooboy]

6. Almost impossible to do...

even if simply for the fact that you could crash stock markets by bringing international commerce to its knees. Too much money is transferred over the internet now.

[Tight_rope]

47. That's Right.....No can do!...It would finish the US economy in 1day.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

51. Impossible

They could probably take down one or two of them, but they would never be able to shut down all of the Internets.

[TryingToWarnYou]

2. Yeah, I should have known...just bought one.

Additionally, if you have access to USGS maps and a compass, with a bit of orienteering experience, you dont need a GPS to determine LAT/LON.

[Brundle_Fly]

20. when the US invaded Haiti, way back in 1994

all the sats went missing for the GPS job I had.

[Charon]

25. Yeah, I should have known...just bought one."

It will be a little harder at sea or in the air.

[0007]

45. Shhhhh! Don't tell numb nuts, he might make us all turn in our

compasses & maps.

[WhiteTara]

57. my thought was Yeah.

..now we can run like hell!

[burrowowl]

3. Learn to use:

a regular compass, how to read maps, and know the magnetic deviation for your area. What can I say?

[Swamp Rat]

12. I have a sextant somewhere too

That Boy Scout training is going to come in handy. Too bad you can't see my smoke signals from over there in the Land of Enchantment.

:hi:

[Ediacara]

43. Declinations are printed on USGS maps

But change constantly. Looking at shapes on a topo map is more useful than trying to use a sextant.

Unless you're in a boat....

[burrowowl]

50. A Brunson compass

is good for measuring slopes and stuff. Yes look at the topo too!

Hi to all that replied! :hi: and let's kick butt :kick:

[Ediacara]

55. You mean a Brunton?

Bruntons are fantastic, and if you're going into geology or surveying, they're WELL worth the money.

[havocmom]

44. Good idea. It alarms me how many don't even know which way East is.

When you mention 'you know, the direction where the sun rises?' you can be met with a blank stare that will turn your blood cold.

There are a lot of people who need to get out more. And there are some who just shouldn't ever leave the pavement. A GPS shutdown would sure confound a lot of people who are WAY too reliant on their Onstar system. Maybe the DOD has a bunch of border collies they will send out in case of a GPS shutdown, you know, to herd people together and keep them safe ;)

Wouldn't hurt for people to learn how to put some seeds in the ground and grow a veggie or two. So many are now so domesticated they can't find their way around and have no clue where food comes from... but hey, it's not like that is as important as knowing what is happening on the latest Reality Show :shrug: Ever think we are gonna be herded off to a feedlot someplace, oh, wait...

[benburch]

4. He's crazy.

His schemes are sounding more and more like the elaborate plans for a New Germany that Hitler was drawing up in the bunker as the Russians closed in.

[madrchsod]

7. dam you hit the nail on the head..

georgie is getting more delusional each day...

[UL_Approved]

13. This is the beginning of the new dictatorship

They are moving so fast...

Nobody can catch up with the bullshit, except for DU.

We need to organize, not just post and discuss. We need secure communications. If this nationalizm trend continues, we will be resistance movement instead of a web forum.

[complain jane]

26. At least he seems to realize

the whole world hates us and some serious shit could come flying over here any time now.

I mean, I guess. That's assuming he's actually considering shutting the GPS down to throw off a missile and not something else in the works.

And yes, I'm 100% sure that the US gov't is fully convinced that it has every right in the world to shut down Europe. After all, "God is with us" (or whatever that Nazi saying was)

[Tace]

5. Jeez, I Wouldn't Want To Be Navigating A Boat Off The Coast...

in some places when they take GPS down. I wonder how many recreational boaters would even know how to navigate without GPS.

Anybody know if there's any other technology besides astro-navigation at sea? Radio beacon triangulation? I'm obviously not a sailor.

On Edit: Oh yeah... a compass! It still would suck without GPS.

[steely]

54. Would you mean LORAN?

I'm a landlubber myself

[hickman1937]

8. I don't understand

The president also instructed the Defense Department to develop plans to disable, in certain areas, an enemy’s access to the U.S. navigational satellites and to similar systems operated by others.

Is he claiming the right to shut down europe too? Does this make him Imperial Master Of The Whole World now? Can't wait to hear what France and Germany have to say about this.

[BonjourUSA]

16. Galileo will work next year.

[Sin]

9. Yea I'm betting

There going to try to target just civilian use of it.
The of course army will have it just in case * needs to round up people that don't fit into * world.

[benburch]

10. If he is trying to prevent a cheap cruise missile...

this will not do it. Yes, GPS is the quick way to make a flying bomb accurate, but there are other ways that you cannot jam. With today's tiny and powerful computer systems, and extremely accurate clocks, even a sun sensor can be enough to acquire an accurate enough fix to hit a big target like, for example, Central Park. I really think a very accurate guidance system is well within the range of what a skilled engineer could develop in a few months time.

[benburch]

11. Even an intertial navigation system can be built cheaply.

See; http://www.electronic-engineering.ch/study/ins/ins.html

This is all within the realm of what any small electronics fabricator could manage almost anywhere on the planet.

[RedCon1]

19. Improvised cruise missiles launched at Central Park are...

completely inconsistent with terrorist doctrine. They would be more likely to bury U-238 along a well traveled path or to burn some DPU in the atmosphere or something wonderful like that.
edit:typo

[benburch]

34. Well, that was just an example...

Now imagine 30 or 40 such vehicles (costing less than $10,000 each) all headed for city centers on the eastern seaboard. Sure they won't have pinpoint accuracy, but even if we knew they were coming, there is little chance we could intercept all them and shoot them down.

I figure the airframe to be wood and fabric, with as little metal in it as possible to make radar interception difficult. There are many choices for power plants.

Seriously, the V-1 worked as a terror weapon for the Nazis, and modern technology makes such a vehicle simple to design and deploy.

[RedCon1]

48. I don't believe it's as simple as you think but it isn't outside the realm

of possibilities. My intention wan't to challenge you however. I was simply pointing out that terrorism is an unconventional doctrine which relies on stealth, surprise, and patience more than improvised cruise missiles and other technologically sophisticated means. Incoming cruise missiles don't scare me as much as missing Uranium.

[Old and In the Way]

14. Lots of unintended consequences....but I wouldn't expect them to

think about that...

[truthisfreedom]

15. what about the children? how will the thought police track our children

if the gps systems are down?

we need some kind of prioritizing going on. these bushies don't know where their priorities are... are they going to track our children or shut off the whole fusebox any time they get the willies?

[mommadona]

17. Here's the priorities

http://www.arpa.mil/

[HuffleClaw]

18. hmmm. i wonder how the folks at OnStar will react

[htuttle]

36. They won't be able to

Their system will not work without GPS.

[0007]

46. .....and they'll be pissed also!

[DoNotRefill]

21. Ummmm...

this has been in the works long before Bush took office.

Another thing they've been playing with is spoofing GPS for non-US-military receivers. Net result: You aim at spot X,Y, and hit spot x+10,y+10. It's not hard to do.

[DoNotRefill]

22. BTW...

They've always played with GPS signals. Remember when the first commercial GPS transceivers came out? Remember how inaccurate they were? That wasn't a problem with the GPS system, it was deliberately made that way.

[Historic NY]

23. I feel sorry for those poor people who can't read a map........they will

be lost forever trying to get home from the store. I recently saw an article about GPS causing an accident on some interstate, the driver kept following the instruction and it told him to turn the wrong way.
I wouldn't even consider buying a vehicle system. Then again it used to be easy to stop at a gas station for directions, unfortunately one must find attendants that speak English today.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. So how many freighters will run aground

when they turn the damn thing off? Besides people who can hijack planes with boxcutters don't need GPS to destroy us.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

29. Supposedly the hijackers did use GPS

IIRC.

I remember hearing/seeing some reports about Atta going to the WTC with GPS equipment a few days before 9/11 so that they would know where to go.

Granted, that could have just been a BS gov't propaganda story to pave the way for something like this.

However, the idea itself doesn't seem that sinister to me. I'm not sure what good it would do, but I'm also unclear on how this would adversely affect most of us. (I've never used or seen GPS personally.)

[complain jane]

27. George knows the difference between GPS and Etch-A-Sketch?

Who'da thunk. :hi:

[Deja Q]

28. You mean, GPS isn't secure?

Who the fuck designs these systems anyway? Microsoft?!

BTW: I don't know Galileo's political background, but given the context in which his name was used, I'm not sure he'd be very happy over his name being used. Pity his name is only a purchaseable trademark these days. :eyes:

[Trajan]

30. GPS has always had a 'selective availability' mode ....

The military uses GPS at it's highest fidelity ....

The civilian channels can be 'spoofed' when in SA, (a well known fact), where errors can be introduced during non-military communications to throw users 'off-course', as it were, if and when necessary ...

This is a red herring ....

[htuttle]

31. This is dangerously stupid

I wonder if they realize how omnipresent GPS is in our nation's transportation infrastructure?

Do they realize how many police, fire and public works departments rely on GPS to enable computerized dispatching? No GPS == no computerized dispatching == trying to find a dispatcher who remembers how to do it without computers in an emergency. Not to mention creating nationwide, or even worldwide, confusion right when it hurts the most.

That's not even touching on the economic effects of severely disrupting long-haul trucking, taxicabs, tow trucks, and just about any other dispatched fleet in the country (or world). Even if GPS is down worldwide even only for a single day, it would cost billions, I'd bet.

How much use could 'terrorists' possibly get out of using GPS? Not NEARLY as much as emergency first responders get out of GPS, that's for sure.

This is just dangerously stupid.

[w4rma]

32. That seems to be precisely the opposite of what they should do.

Rescue crews will be relying on GPS tech during emergencies and losing GPS could create even MORE emergencies for folks who were relying on GPS which will stretch rescue crews even thinner.

[fortyfeetunder]

33. GPS is young!

GPS is only a latter 20th century development; we've only had it for the last 30 something years, and for consumers only in the last ~10yrs.

The issue would be for businesses who rely on GPS, and this would be the problem

Now if Bush were to stop the magnetic field so our compasses wouldn't work, then that would be some serious shit!

[DELUSIONAL]

35. Most of the world is PISSED OFF at the bush gang

shutting down the GPS is going to make him even more hated than he is now -- that would be quite an accomplishment -- even for the idiot savant.

[Stockholm]

38. Possibility to jam GPS already exist - RW propaganda

US already did that in a NATO exercise earlier this year in Northern Norway.

Basically, GPS and the Russian version is military hardware "allowing" civilian use.

The Galileo version (EU project) will be a civilian project - for primarily civilian use.

And hopefully a lot more accurate than GPS.

[belab13]

37. the Europeans anticipated this.

http://www.useu.be/Galileo/

[Cocoa]

39. it's comforting to know Bush is on the case

working hard to keep me safe from those forest critters. :scared:

[Megahurtz]

40. Hey, didn't North Korea do this one

several months ago during some emergency to keep the people of the country from communicating to the outside world???

:nuke:

Sounds like the Bushster is getting ideas.

[Just Me]

41. I wonder how much money his cronies will make off this porker.

If he's planning on shutting everyone down,...he's gonna just piss people off even more than he already has.

I seriously do believe that Bush, himself, is the greatest national threat, EVER!!!

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

42. Make that a GLOBAL threat (nt)

nt

[LiberalFighter]

49. If GPS is shutdown.... what will our military use?

[Nihil]

52. "Not quite so smart bombs"? "Pretty dumb bombs"?

"Dumb as a bomb-aimer" bombs?
:evilgrin:

[steely]

53. Another hair-brained idea from the asshat.

The civilian service could be shut down or limited - it's been done before. This was always part of the plan - but when the civilian side embraced it, the pressure for much more accuracy (during peace time) opened the door for the civie side. Now it's regarded as a utility (like the phone, electricity, water, etc)

The russians used to have Glonass - not sure of its status anymore.
GPS also has a detente mission - used for detecting nuke related stuff.

Reliance by civies worlwide upeon the system is widespread as pointed out - to include ships and planes outside of the US.

It would have to be a MAJOR threat.

[BiggJawn]

56. I FART in the general direction of your vaunted GPS...

I'm not very skilled, but I *DO* know how to use one!

And I'll bet Al-Kah-Seltzah knows how, too.

[DemoTex]

59. Fool-proof! Tamper-proof! A very different kind of SEX!

The SEX-tant. Needs a clock. Place cannot be determined from the heavens without time. I should have known BJ would chime in on this. Just like my HF folleys, eh BJ! Can we spell a-n-a-c-h-r-o-n-i-s-m? Sure we can. Anchor it in with a boat-anchor or two. I'll bet your got one!

73's
K9STR

[BiggJawn]

60. So the scoutmaster was giving a talk on Celestial Navigation...

And he figured maybe it was a little over the guy's heads.

Especially when the Eagle scout with ALL the computer merit badges came up to him and said "Mr. Jones? Where can I get one of those Sex Tents in time for the next camporee?"

As long as Chimpy does't kill WWV...Shoot, we could ALWAYS use CHU for time.

[DemoTex]

58. The airlines (and FAA) accepted GPS if, and only if this could not happen.

I think the promise was made by Bu$h, Sr. It is a critical blend in modern navigation avionics architecture. Differential GPS gives small airports a very flexible ILS (instrument landing system). GPS is used on the North Atlantic Track System (where your airline is assigned to fly from JFK to LHR, for example). GPS is blended in all the new-generation airliners avionics systems. Shut down GPS, shut down and strangle the near-dead airlines. Hell, Bu$h has done that with fuel prices. What does he want, short of the ruination of the US airline industry and the leagalization of cabotage (foreign carriers flying US domestic routes)? Verb sap!

[alexisfree]

61. I put a computer in the car to get the hell out of here in a war(SEE PIC)

[alexisfree]

62. $3500.00 down the toilet if the govt shuts down the gps system