Pope weighs into fight to keep Christ in Christmas

[emad]

Times
By Richard Owen
Europe's religious heritage is threatened by waves of 'Christianophobia', the Vatican believes



THE Pope urged Christians to embrace the true meaning of Christmas yesterday, amid a row in Italy over traditional celebrations.

Presiding over a ceremonial switching-on of Christmas tree lights in St Peter’s Square, where 10,000 pilgrims had gathered, the Pope cited a phrase from the Psalms to draw attention to “the meaning of this liturgical season of Advent”, an aide said. “It is a royal psalm which portrays a just and devout king who defends the poor and the oppressed.”

At the weekend the Pope weighed in over whether Italian state schools were right to cancel Nativity plays and cribs because of the alleged sensitivities of immigrant Muslim children. The Pope said on Sunday that Christmas traditions remain “an important element of our culture and faith”. The Nativity scene was “a familiar and expressive representation of Christmas”.

One school at Como has replaced the word “Jesus” with “virtue”, in a carol, and another at Treviso is to stage Little Red Riding Hood this year instead of a Nativity play, arguing that the fairytale also represents “the struggle of good against evil”. Schools from Cagliari to Modena have decided not to display cribs.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1404673,00.html

[emad]

1. Christianophobia? Annual paranoia about dwindling numbers,

sex abuse scandals, imminent bankruptcies of dioceses and, this year, the small matter of the P2 Lodge members finally on trial of "God's Banker" Roberto Calvi 22 years ago in London. Not to mention the emerging role of Opus Dei in spreading global misinformation that resulted in the fiasco of WMD "intelligence" on Iraq....

Post #70 refers:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2829274&mesg_id=2833151......

More from the Times:

“Exaggerated attacks on Christmas traditions reflect a much wider attitude,” said Cardinal Camillo Ruini, a papal aide. Vatican officials are campaigning to have “Christianophobia” recognised by the United Nations as an evil equal to hatred of Jews and of Muslims. Vatican officials argue that Christianity is under threat not only from militant Islam and New Age sects but also from the secular ism of increasingly vocal and influential “anti- religious forces”.

and

The Vatican was dismayed over the failure of the European Union to refer to Europe’s Christian heritage in its new constitution, as well as the rejection by the European Parliament of Rocco Buttiglione as Italy’s EU commissioner because of his traditionalist Catholic views on homosexuality and the family.

[DemBones DemBones]

16. Never fear, emad, the Catholic Church will survive. It will

change, as it has before, and it's predicted that it -- and Christianity as a whole -- will become MORE conservative because that's what the people want in South America, Africa,and Asia, where much growth in numbers is occurring while Americans and Europeans have fallen away from the Church.

[emad]

18. Your optimism is unfounded. The victims of the Uk scandal are

preparing to go public; some have a very high public profile.

Doubtless this will merely accentuate the Roberto Calvi murder law suit currently adjourned in Rome. The Banco Ambrosiano trail leads directly to those paid/sponsored by the P2 Lodge 35 years ago who occupy high public office today, including Shrub and Poodle. The role of General Pinochet is of note as well.

All those cold war secrets finally out in the open.

[Trajan]

2. Today's Christmas traditions ....

Were yesteryear's pagan rituals ....

Funny how ownership only works on their side ....

[Bill McBlueState]

5. Psalms

It's also funny how the Pope cites something from the Psalms to make his point. When the Psalms were written, pagans were celebrating the original solstice holiday. It would be nearly 1000 years before Christmas became a Christian holiday, let alone before there were any Christians at all.

[emad]

7. Yule = Satrunalia, a pagan solstice feast upgraded by the Romans

from the ancient Egyptians who worshipped Isis during the equinoxes ....

[Bill McBlueState]

8. Saturnalia

When I worked at a planetarium, we ran a show called "Old Lights of Holiday Nights." It ran through the celestial tie-ins of various winter holidays and ended with an injunction to "remember the spirit of Saturnalia" and care for the less fortunate. The fundie schools never quite knew what to make of that.

[emad]

14. Saturnalia....

[gratuitous]

3. Jeez, just order the churches to comply, JP

You're the freakin' Pope, arencha? As for anyone else who is not a practicing Roman Catholic, they're outside your purview, and you can't order people to devote their time or spend their money on something they don't believe in.

Of course, if the Catholics (and other Christians) were to spend a little more time working to make sure that people didn't have to work 18 hour days at three jobs just to make ends meet while the fat cats at the top of the heap get another massive cash infusion from the public coffers in the form of more "tax cuts" (which are nothing more than transfers of wealth -- I don't pay taxes so that Dick Cheney can get a personal $90,000 windfall like he did last year), then folks might have a little more time and money to devote to some of the higher things in life, rather than scrabbling to keep body and soul together.

Didn't Jesus address this point rather directly, and on several occasions? Then why are so-called church leaders spending so much time and energy on matters (abortion and gay marriage) that Jesus never mentioned at all?

[DemBones DemBones]

15. This pope has spoken often against economic injustice,

for labor unions, for rich nations forgiving the debts of poor nations.

[gratuitous]

17. No offense intended

But talk is notoriously cheap. I notice that when some American Catholic Bishops were up in arms about John Kerry and abortion, they weren't shy about saying publicly and repeatedly that he and others who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion should be denied communion in their churches. I'm unaware of any concomitant action being advocated against folks who propagate economic injustice and illegal wars of imperialism.

I'm also not singling out Catholics, though it is a story about the Pope that spurred my initial post. Folks all over Christendom, and particularly Christians in the United States, have much for which to answer.

[AngryOldDem]

19. Couple of points

>>>But talk is notoriously cheap.>>>

It was said so in this exact thread -- the Pope has no purview over anyone not Catholic, so why should anyone outside of Roman Catholicism care what the man has to say? I think if he said nothing about these issues some here would be calling him a fraud for falling down on his job. And this particular issue of keeping Christ in Christmas is one on which he is more than qualified to offer an opinion.

I have read some of JPII's encyclicals on social justice and they are wise, thoughtful, and in some ways prophetic of what is going on. The world would do well to listen.

And as for Communion, I have to note that the MAJORITY of American bishops were silent on the matter of pro-choice politicians and Communion. There are only three that I can immediately think of who came out loudly and often about it: Burke, Bruskewitz, and Chaput. Like any other loudmouth segment of a group, they get the most press and it appears as though they represent the Church as a whole. They do not.

Most bishops -- including my own -- said that the matter is a private one between the individual and his or her conscience and/or confessor, which I daresay is the opinion of most Catholics. Rome, through Joseph Ratzinger, clarified the issue thusly: If someone votes for a pro-choice politician for the sole reason he or she is pro-choice, that would be considered a sin. However, if other factors were involved, the pro-choice position would be mitigated. I, a Catholic, voted for John Kerry because in my conscience I knew we could not stand another four years of Bush's war, economic poverty, etc. Kerry's opinion on abortion weighed little in my decision. Merely voting for a candidate on a pro-choice or pro-life stance will, at the end of the day, do little to address the causes underlying abortion. There are better ways to work the issue than solely at the voting booth.


The Church has taught that one's conscience should be one's guide to making political decisions.

I agree with you, though, that we DO have a lot to answer for.

[Fenris]

4. The Pope offers an opinion? How rare!

[gandalf]

6. What happened to your name, dame anastasia?

It's probably more convenient this way.

OT: Did you follow the news regarding the "accident" of Rafi Eitan?
http://www.barrychamish.com/html/raful.html
http://www.barrychamish.com/html/raful2.html

Quite dangerous to work outside if one is a little bit older.

[emad]

11. It was that DU name-change amnesty after 2Nov, Gandalf, just

too tempting...It was either going to be Nom De Guerre or GCB/CMG (Brit diplomatic terminology...)

Thanks for the links, adding them to my reading list.

The Rabin stuff is particularly interesting because as far as I understand it it is linked directly to the London assasination bid on Shlomo Argov - a nasty bit of Gelli brothers turf wars whihc I hope to post about later this week.

Good to hear from you!

[Hand]

9. Oh, for the...

Memo to JP II: Get a nice big cup of

STFU!!!!

[wildwww2]

12. I`ll second that motion. And I only wish there was a hell for Bu$h

and that pompous ass to burn in. Piss poor leadership on both of their parts.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[w4rma]

10. "portrays a just and devout king who defends the poor and the oppressed."

“the meaning of this liturgical season of Advent”, an aide said. “It is a royal psalm which portrays a just and devout king who defends the poor and the oppressed.”

That is indeed what Christmas is all about. Not selling and buying and giving gifts.

He is a good Pope. I worry that the Pope who replaces him will be one who doesn't share this Pope's ideals.

[KansDem]

13. Oh? We're supposed to celebrate the "Christ" in "Christmas?"

Silly me! I thought it was the "mas" as in "mass" spending, "mass" consumption, and "mass" debt.

Oh, what won't those Christians think of next!