Christians protest actions that play down Christmas' religious nature

[Moloch]

Julie West is tired of being wished "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." She's annoyed with department stores that use "Season's Greetings" banners, and with public schools that teach about Hanukkah and Kwanzaa but won't touch the Nativity story.

So last week, she sent a baked protest to a holiday party at her first-grade son's school: a chocolate cake with vanilla frosting and red icing that spelled out "Happy Birthday Jesus."

"Christmas keeps getting downgraded, to the point that you're almost made to feel weird if you even mention it," says West, a resident of Edmonds, Wash., who describes herself as a non-denominational Christian. "What's the matter with recognizing the reason behind the whole holiday?"

This Christmas season, West has plenty of company. Christians and traditionalists across the nation, fed up with what they view as the de-emphasizing of Christmas as a religious holiday, are filing lawsuits, promoting boycotts and launching campaigns aimed at restoring references to Christ in seasonal celebrations.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&ncid=676&e=4&u=/usatoday/20041222/ts_usatoday/christiansprotestactionsthatplaydownchristmasreligiousnature

[Beer Snob-50]

1. ARGGGGGGGGGGGH

This is probably the greatest hoax perpetrated on the American People. The idea that people say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" in order to deemphasize Christ is bull!! I Say happy holiday because I do not know the persuasion of the person I am wishing this to. Are they Jew? They celebrate Hanuaka. Are they Jehoviahs? They celebrate nothing. Are they Muslum? I have no idea what they celebrate. And I have no frgging idea about kwanzaa!!

[AliciaKeyedUp]

2. That is a perfectly fine choice

I say "Merry Christmas." And, depending on the beliefs of that person, I expect them to use their seasonal expression of good will.

Merry Christmas.

[bobbyboucher]

77. Figures.

It's all about you.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

87. Actually, it's all about Christ

Since it is Christmas.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

94. and a lot of them are here on DU

Christo-fascist death-cult zombies...

RL

[orpupilofnature57]

106. OH STOP, shrub he's your man not Jesus or Santa, G.E and

halliburton, oh ya and old man POTTER.

[RetroLounge]

124. old man POTTER

He was a great man! Had a servant. Owned a bank!

//sarcasm off

[RetroLounge]

122. Sorry, it's all about Santa and the tree

Christ is dead, deal with it.

What's risen is Credit Debt.

That's your holiday, sweetie.

RL

[AliciaKeyedUp]

130. Christ died and rose again

Deal with it.

Merry Christmas dearie.

[VegasWolf]

134. Pardon my French, but in your brain he did, not mine. n/t

[RetroLounge]

141. Uh, okay. Enjoy your delusions

honey bunch

Rl

[AliciaKeyedUp]

144. I love the responses to faith here

They are almost stereotypical.

[VegasWolf]

145. Actually your blind belief is what's funny. n/t

[AliciaKeyedUp]

147. I'm not blind and neither is my belief

What's funny is your deliberate attacks and lame attempts to get me angry.

[VegasWolf]

152. I never said that you were blind, just your belief. Belief in invisible

beings is irrational and cannot be proved. All you
have is your belief, therefore it is blind.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

155. We all have faith in different things

Some have faith in God or country or science or whatever. I have faith in many things including people, but the foundation of that faith is in God.

If it bothers you, well, too bad.

[VegasWolf]

156. LOL. I never said your faith bothers me. It's very sad in a way. n/t

[AliciaKeyedUp]

157. So, according to your personal attacks

My belief is "sad" or "funny" but allegedly it doesn't bother you.

Sure.

[VegasWolf]

158. Honest, it doesn't! BTW, they are not personal attacks against

you but attacks against this religion crap which I've
had enough of over the last few years.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

159. It is indeed how your worded them

They were comments about my faith, my belief.

If you don't like religion, don't be religious.

[VegasWolf]

169. I'm not religious and I reserve my right to decry its hypocrisy whenever

it raises its ugly head. My prerogative. Ideally you
have other facets to your personality other than this unfortunate
item, that is why I said that i was not attacking you personally.

[kapp]

195. AMEN. n/t

[Cobalt Violet]

165. Does Jesus teach you to be self-righteous?

[brentspeak]

193. It's "self-righteous" to stick to one's guns re. belief?

I would never in a million years cave in and surrender my beliefs simply to please somebody else -- especially to someone who disagrees with me over the internet. If you don't like it, that's just really too bad; the Thought Police reveal themselves to be Keystone Kops.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

233. I think she learned that all by herself

:evilgrin:

[Cobalt Violet]

164. Now you are shoving it down peoples throats.

Perfect example. But no thanks :puke:

[shamalama]

214. It's a bit brutal in here today

A guy called Jesus was born, lived, and died. Some people believe He's the Messiah, and as such they started celebrating his birthday. I'm one of those people.

Over time the actual date has been lost, and it has been merged with other religious holidays, but the overall celebration is still going on today.

It's because of these two facts that I use the phrase "Merry Christmas", but I'm certainly in the minority. On January 1 I use the phrase "Happy New Year", not "Happy Holiday". The first Monday in September I say "Happy Labor Day" and not "Happy Unofficial End Of Summer Event".

I'm not shoving anything down anyone's throat, but rather simply trying to be accurate and honest.

If someone gets offended by me saying "Merry Christmas", who's problem is it? We already have Word Crimes; saying a particular word or phrase that is generally considered to be uttered as an offense, like the "n-word" while talking to someone of African heritage. In 10 years will "Merry Christmas" be thought of in the same way?

[phylny]

222. I, too, am a Christian. I've lived in many diverse places.

I wish "Merry Christmas" to people who say it to me first, and to people I know are Christian. It has nothing to do with being "accurate and honest" or not, but it has to do with respecting others. I use "Happy Holidays" to those whose religious beliefs, if any, I'm unsure about. To others, I say nothing but, "Have a good weekend!" of "See you next week!"

I work in an area with many Hassidic Jews. I don't wish them Merry Christmas - I think it would be rude to do so, and it's not an "accurate" greeting or sentiment to them. In fact, I don't say anything to them, because I'm not even sure Hanukah is a big holiday with them (it's a minor Jewish holiday, so I'm told) and it's NOT their New Year on 1/1. What could I possibly mean by saying "Merry Christmas" to them?

I work with Muslim families. I don't wish them Merry Christmas (although they believe in the existence of Jesus, or so I just found out!) - I think it would be rude to do so (and see above).

Amazingly, my faith is still strong. I am not insulted that if someone says "Happy Holidays" or even nothing to me. I will celebrate Christmas the same way, regardless. If someone of another faith says, "I hope you enjoy your holiday" or even "Enjoy your Christmas with your family," I thank them pleasantly, and think to myself, "Wasn't that nice that they thought of me in such a kind way!"

With regards to your claimes of accuracy, how accurate is it *really* for you to wish a Jew Merry Christmas, or a Muslim, or an Agnostic? In those cases, the sentiment is just words, isn't it? Just empty words, with no meaning behind it. They don't celebrate the holiday, aren't Christian, so what would you mean by saying it?

It's like someone wishing me a Happy Hanukah. HUH? What do those words mean to me? Nothing, I don't celebrate it. For people who don't celebrate Christmas, your greeting is similarly without meaning.

[Flammable Materials]

123. Christmas is a usurpation of a Pagan holiday. n/t

[AliciaKeyedUp]

129. Only in part

The celebration marks the birth of Christ. Nothing pagan in that.

[Cobalt Violet]

167. Was there a christmas tree in the manger?

[mitchum]

188. Well, why isn't it held near the birthday of Jesus of Nazareth then?

That would be closer to August

Saturn IS the reason for the season (despite the Yeshua-Come-Latelies)

SEASON'S GREETINGS

[AliciaKeyedUp]

196. We don't celebrate the Presdents' birthdays correct either

I am OK with the convention. If you are not, I suggest you start a movement to change the entire world's celebration of Christmas.

Or not.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

126. Would you like a teacher to force your children to sing Hannukah

songs and recite Ramadan prayers? What do you think of multiculturalism? Are you against that too? Do you answer straight questions?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

127. I don't force anyone to sing Christmas carols

I sing my songs, others may sing theirs.

I have no problem with multiculturism. However, the overwhelmingly vast number of Americans celebrate Christmas. So, I say Merry Christmas.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

133. So I guess you're not sensitive to minorities

that's not surprising.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

136. How so?

You attempt to put words in my mouth but fail miserably.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

138. If you lived in an area that was 40% Jewish

would you still say Merry Christmas?

I don't attempt to put words in your mouth. It's pretty obvious where you stand. And what you're here for. It's not for rational discussion, that's for sure.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

140. Yes, of course

And I would be equally cool if people responded Happy Hanukkah in return.

Why not celebrate your faith as you believe it?

Actually, I came here for rational discussion and got sidetracked by the hundreds of posts that mocked my religion.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

150. Yes, this Catholic agrees that we're so persecuted!

/sarcasm/

Most of your threads are attempts at divisiveness. Most non-believers on DU are very accepting. I think this Christian victimhood bullshit is an attempt to sow the seeds of division. So much for your spreading the positive aspects of Christianity. :eyes:

[VegasWolf]

170. Thank you Cathy in Cambridge! n/t

[mitchum]

191. And another thanks! n/t

[AgadorSparticus]

230. you tell it like it is, Kathy! good for you!

[AliciaKeyedUp]

231. The divisiveness is the fault of the others who post it

I have only responded to it.

I am sure numerous DUers -- Christian and non-Christian alike -- are tolerant folk. That's a good reason to be here. My gripe is with those who are not so tolerant.

[Behind the Aegis]

78. Funny

I say "Happy Chanukah" to Jews, "Merry Christmas" to Christians, and Happy Holidays to "unknowns." I figure by doing that, I am showing respect for their holiday. I do not IMPOSE my beliefs on them, but I do correct them when they wish me a Merry Christmas, as I am not a Christian. But, if someone says "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings," I return the saying! It is not all about shoving your religion down other throats, but about appreciating other's faiths and appreciating your own faith by demonstrating good will, not superiority!

[AliciaKeyedUp]

88. I celebrate my holiday, you are welcome to celebrate yours

And I think you are making a fine choice that works for you. It doesn't work for me.

[Behind the Aegis]

90. OK, then

Happy Belated Chanukah and a Joyous Solstice!

[AliciaKeyedUp]

96. And Merry Christmas to you

See that wasn't tough on anyone.

[SemperEadem]

217. Just say "Party on..."

that'll cover everyone without their panties being in a bunch over how they're being addressed.

[RetroLounge]

91. Who gives a sh*t what you "expect" them to say?

Happy Festivus...

RL

[AliciaKeyedUp]

97. Merry Christmas

nt

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbyboucher]

108. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

:cry: :cry:

[AliciaKeyedUp]

128. True to form

NWT (not worth text)

[RetroLounge]

142. NWT

but you KEEP ON POSTING.

Must be worth something.

Can you save an internet soul?

RL

[AliciaKeyedUp]

149. A response to a post

Isn't necessarily for the poster, it can be for the others who read it.

And any soul can be saved, not sure if I am the one to do it.

[RetroLounge]

225. god-damned sure you're not the one

but don't let that stop you.

RL

[illflem]

3. Could it be

that many use Happy Holidays in order to include the nondenominational Happy New Years in the statement?

[melnjones]

6. That's why I say it. nt

[bunkerbuster1]

10. Well, that's why retailers have been saying this for decades.

Damn, people are thick, aren't they?

[RetroLounge]

95. Thick, stupid and playing the Christo-Victims.

I wonder how this Christ dude would feel about so many of his rabid followers hanging on their own little persecution crosses?

RL

[Theres-a]

19. thank you!

it seems as though the msm is fanning a fire they started themselves!

[progmom]

53. amen to that. nt

[Art_from_Ark]

192. Dad-blamed arsonists!

[KDLarsen]

4. Muslims usually observes the Ramadan

.. which usually ends with great festivity during which the children are given presents, sweets etc.

But that falls on different days each year.

[Beer Snob-50]

16. Thank you for enlightening me!

I appreciate it.

[KDLarsen]

41. No problem, forgot to add one thing

.. the celebration at the end of the Ramadan is called Eid ul-Fitr which can be translated to 'little feast'.

[StuckinKS]

72. Other celebrations

But you never hear of the public schools putting on Ramadan programs where the all children learn Ramadan prayers and recite them to their families in the auditorium.

And you don't hear of any town or city sponsoring a Passover Festival for the entire community with public funds.

Also, I can't think of any other religious event where we expect to be greeted by the merchants where we are shopping.

Poor, put-upon Christians.

[Cobalt Violet]

168. We never learn about all the Hindu holidays either.

I think they have the most holidays.

[SemperEadem]

218. I don't believe for a moment that they're put upon

as much as I believe them to be attention whores.

[Earth_First]

33. Happy Holidays is terra-ist talk

"Say you love Jesus, SAY IT!"

[jmowreader]

110. Lots of Kwanzaa celebrants do Christmas too

Kwanzaa starts on December 26.

So wishing a Kwanzaa celebrant Merry Christmas would be okay.

[prodigal_green]

112. I say Happy Holidays because`

there are two holidays close to each other on the calendar--Christmas and New Years. I never ever thought that it was a substitute for Christmas, just a way to get in two for one.

Of course, I never knew that gerryrig was anti-German until somebody pointed that out to me recently.

[NuttyFluffers]

5. i swear... if i'm ever badgered into saying merry christmas...

i don't think i'll be able to hold my tongue.

i'd probably spit back "don't like 'happy holidays'?! how about 'go fuck off and die!' ... better?"

please please please, why are there belligerant people who insist on trying everyone's patience with their bitterness? ugh!

after a year of 2 toy retail jobs during the pokemon craze, through the holiday season (including bloody christmas...), i am absolutely cured of any holiday cheer and bereft of any compassion to belligerant and rabid celebrants.

[Sentath]

37. Happy Helladays ( ;

and AMEN from a fellow PTRD sufferer (post traumatic retailer disorder)

From here on out its "Fruitful Yule" thanks to the stink these people have raised.

[donco6]

83. That's hella-cool

As Cartman would say.

[cedahlia]

48. I like "go fuck off and die"

but was also thinking of Mr. Vice President's favorite choice words for those he disagrees with...

"Go FUCK yourself!" }(

I tell ya, my heart just bleeds for this poor, poor oppressed "Christian" woman and those who share her plight. But, man, she really stuck it to all those secular liberals out there with her "Happy Birthday Baby Jesus" cake! That'll show 'em not to mess with the "Christian" soldiers! :eyes:

IMO, it's people like this crazy woman who ruin the whole "spirt of Christmas" thing. Getting pissed about someone being nice and wishing you well (however they choose to say it) is just nuts. I'm always pleased to hear kind words from someone, whether it be "Merry Christmas" "Happy Hannukah" "Happy Holidays" or whatever. We could use more kind words and well wishes in this world in general. It's the sentiment behind the words that counts, and forcing people to say "Merry Christmas" defeats the entire purpose of the phrase. But it's no surprise that freeper morans such as this woman can't think critically and grasp such concepts.

[vs the introvore]

154. nobody ever argues about what to say on halloween.

i mean, there's no good reason to say "happy halloween." the celebration has never been about any kind of happiness. do you therefore say, "boo," "trickertreat," or "hope your deceased ancestors don't haunt you for too long."

[NuttyFluffers]

185. exactly, it's the concept of graciousness.

when someone offers you a gift, or a treat, do you respond "how dare you! i insist that it be XYZ and from now on only XYZ to whoever you meet!"

all that some people are asking is, yes, we appreciate your graciousness, if you could please be general about it so i could feel included.

it's like offering water to your guest. you could offer coffee, tea, milk, whiskey, etc. but usually you start off with water, because it is innocuous and generally appreciated. it gives general inclusivity, until a rapport is built and you learn your guest's traditions, restrictions, personal tastes, etc. what the bloody hell is wrong with being gracious with a universal sign of kindness? should smiles be changed too? ugh!

[Mike Niendorff]

7. You see, in fundie-land, "Happy Holidays" is now understood to be ...

... double-top-secret code for "I hate Jesus".

So, seeing as they've cracked The Heathen Code, they must do battle with all us "Happy Holidays" heathens by launching a "Merry Christmas" crusade. And deeper and deeper goes the rabbit hole.


MDN

[The White Tree]

46. The Irony - Holiday means Holy Day

From the Middle English holidai, holy day, from Old English hlig dæg : hlig, holy; see holy + dæg, day; see day.]

So these religeous nuts are offended that someone would wish them a Happy Holy Day.

These people neeed to get a life.

What's next? - Replace Happy New Year with Merry New Year of our Lord

What will we need to say on Easter? :crazy:

[Igel]

64. "Holiday" means holiday.

Otherwise we wouldn't use "holy day" (language users hate real synonyms). Meanings change, and we don't imply the historical meanings of words we use.

Goodbye doesn't equal "God be with you", we aren't inquiring as to the state of somebody's bowels when when ask, "How are you?" We don't think of "doom" as just meaning "judgment" (So, Frank, I heard your suit was settled? What was your doom?) If you say you don't eat meat, you certainly don't mean you don't eat bread or vegetables (meat = food), nor can you say that JFK starved because he was shot (starve || German sterben 'die').

[genieroze]

89. New Years is Happy Feast of Christ's Circumcision. Ouch! eom

[Cobalt Violet]

171. Happy Crucifixion Day.

[smirkymonkey]

76. And "Seasons Greetings" really means....

"Burn in Hell".

They're on to us.

[proReality]

8. Petty crap

Generally people begin saying Happy Holidays around Thanksgiving, which includes everything that falls between that holiday and the new year celebration.

Sooo, maybe the problem is that the term is too *inclusive* for some?



Edited to practice the alien HTML, but I failed.

[Chovexani]

9. Oh cry me a bloody river.

What I don't understand--and I hope someone can explain this to me--is why bible-thumpers like Julie seem to think that being unable (either legally or socially) to cram their religious beliefs down everyone's throat is somehow discrimination. Why is it that a simple acknowledgement that, hey, other religions and cultures have their own beliefs and traditions about this time of year "downgrading Christmas?" I don't understand this masochistic need of theirs to cling to this completely fucking ridiculous victim complex. If the bible-thumpers are not the absolute center of the universe, they're being persecuted. :wtf:

You want to "feel weird"? Try planning a quiet period of reflection while your bible-thumping family keeps harping on that "Jesus is the reason for the season". Pagans, or anyone who isn't into the Christmas thing, are made to feel like we're complete freaks at this time of year. It has gotten better for Jews, with more awareness about Chanukah, but that's been hard fought and it still isn't completely accepted--my mom, an otherwise reasonable Christian, loses her damn mind around this time of year like clockwork and goes off whenever she sees a menorah ("they just made that up because they were jealous of Christmas and now they want to force it on everyone" --not seeing the almost comical irony of a Christian making a statement like this to a Pagan).

Look, if they feel their holiday is too commercialized that's one thing, and if they want to fight against that then good on them (I know lots of Pagans who are pretty disgusted by the bastardization of Samhain, one of the most sacred days of the year). But to demand that they be able to cram their traditions down everyone's throat is just fucking weak. I think it's wrong for explicitly Christian symbols to be singled out for disposal in things like public holiday displays, but at the same time they need to be aware that not everyone has those beliefs and that this time of year holds many different meanings for different cultures. Either diversity should be acknowledged or no one gets to display anything, IMO.

[cedahlia]

52. was wondering the same thing

These fools now control the House, the Senate, the office of the President, and probably soon, the Supreme Court. So, they control the government, and much of the big business of the most powerful country in the world, yet they are still whining about how persecuted they have been and how they are soooooo oppressed. It's like they have "oppression-envy" or something! :crazy:

I too, don't really understand this, but good luck getting any of these idiots like Julie to admit how ridiculous they are being.

[Harry S Truman]

201. A happy Pagan holiday of darkness and light!

Remember, the Solstice is the reason for the season. The christians just invaded the day.

[SemperEadem]

219. They aren't victims, they're attention whores--that's why

[Bridget Burke]

11. Julie West: Another Dominionist Stooge.

Does she realize who cooked up this fake controversy? A year ago, this article appeared on the Concerned Women for America* website.

www.cwfa.org/articles/5040/CFI/misc/

Mysteriously, all over the web, all over letters to the editor pages, all over the more credulous cable stations--"Christmas Is Under Attack!"

I remember holiday seasons from the 1950's onward. "Happy Holidays" & "Season's Greetings" were not invented by the ACLU in 1992. Though no longer exactly a believer, I've never shrunk from saying "Merry Christmas" where suitable. But a politically-motivated subset of "Christians" is trying to make the ancient greeting a political statement.

=================================
* Concerned Women For America, founded to combat the Equal Rights Amendment. Founder--Beverly (Mrs. Tim) LaHaye.

[leftofcool]

13. CWOA and LaHaye

Worrying that there is not enough "Christ in seasons greetings" seems a bit ridiculous, especially since LaHaye's hubby predicts the "rapture" is fast approaching. Don't they all have some last minute ass-kissing to do?

Left of cool

[Cooley Hurd]

23. CWOA's Sandy Rios put her foot in it on Crossfire...

...and Carville smacked her down:

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0208/20/cf.00.html

CARVILLE: Let me show you something a great fundamentalist, a person I'm sure you agree with all the time, said, and tell me if you agree with him or not. This is the Reverend Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham. Let's see what he said about Islam. We're going to post it up there.

"We're not attacking Islam, but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He is not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It is a very different God. I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion." That is a fundamentalist Christian. Do you agree with this fundamentalist Christian?

RIOS: Yes, I do.

CARVILLE: You think Islam is a very wicked and evil religion?

RIOS: I think when it teaches holy jihad...

ABINADER: I think it's pathetic.

(CROSSTALK)

RIOS: James, why does that offend you so much? They killed 3,000 people.

CARVILLE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) people in these mosques in these countries that are praying, that are working, that are good Americans, that pay taxes here. They're not evil people. They're good people. And for you to suggest that and Franklin Graham to suggest that is just wrong, god damn it, it is wrong.

RIOS: James, you're dripping.

CARVILLE: I'm not dripping.

RIOS: You're drooling.

CARVILLE: I don't think you ought to tell these good people that's what it is. It irritates the hell out of me.

[progmom]

57. Yay James!!!

:)

[oneighty]

45. LaHaye=Jesus money making machine.

That bunch hollers out "Merry Christmas Suckers" every day of their useless lives as they dance to their banks hauling more loot extorted from the ignorant.

180

Spell check corrected LaHaye to Lahore! Hee hee hee

[leftofcool]

54. ROFLMAO

LaHore..............I like it!

Left of Cool

[oneighty]

58. Did you try it?

LaHaye spell check?

180

[Theres-a]

22. thanks for the info!

seems to me the media is just trying to get everyone to "look over here".Nevermind the war,nevermind votefraud, "CHRISTMAS IS UNDER ATTACK":bounce: What next?"save christmas" ribbons?

[wildeyed]

12. If you want to talk about Jesus, go to church,

not a department store.

• In California, a group called the Committee to Save Merry Christmas is boycotting Federated Department Stores. The group claims that Federated's affiliates, including Macy's, prohibit clerks from saying "Merry Christmas" and ban the word "Christmas" from ads and store displays. The retail giant says it has no such policy.

Or maybe we should wish each other Merry Chri$tma$?

[keith the dem]

26. AMEN

Isn't funny that having respect for another's religion and traditions is viewed as unkristian by these morons. Have they ever read their Bible?

When the government and media prevent my church from presenting its message of love and acceptance then Christians are truly persecuted.

WAIT A MINUTE, I belong to a UCC church and they did that last week. The same morons who are yelling about taking Christ out of Christmas.

[yorkiemommie1]

63. hah macy's whores for the war

w/ their little tv screens in women's fitting areas permanently tuned to fox news

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Zanti Regent]

15. Welcome to Jesusland!

It's only a matter of time before Julie and her friends force you to attend mandatory church services!

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

17. "Holiday" means "holy day"

There are lots of holy days this time of year. These people just don't like to share.

[arwalden]

18. LMAO!!

>> Christians and traditionalists across the nation, fed up with what they view as the de-emphasizing of Christmas as a religious holiday, are filing lawsuits, promoting boycotts and launching campaigns aimed at restoring references to Christ in seasonal celebrations. <<

Ah... those poor "Christians and traditionalists"... they are such victims!

Someone explain this sense of ENTITLEMENT to me that many of these overwrought Christians seem to have.

[durablend]

20. It's a case of...

The world not revolving around them and they're pissed.

GET OVER YOURSELVES!!! (referring to them) :puke:

[Theres-a]

24. bake sales

why don't they hold bakesales and use the profits for charity?the whole thing makes me sick.all that time and energy and money.FOR WHAT?the god i believe in says "show me".love one another.where is the love?

[FlaGranny]

30. Indeed, why don't they do bakesales for charity?

This reminds me of a pilot around here who, several times a week, flies over our area skywriting "Jesus loves you." It always makes me angry that he is wasting 100's of gallons of gas to fly around the sky when he could be using the money to feed a poor family or help an uninsured kid get an operation. Instead of bragging to the world, he could actually be living a Christian life. Sure, he may really enjoy doing this, but I haven't heard that Jesus said to use your extra dollars to enjoy yourself.

When, oh when, did they corrupt Christianity to the point that the VERY LAST thing these "Christians" would do is follow the example of Jesus Christ?

[Theres-a]

36. i couldn't agree more

:hug: merry christmas

[Soloflecks]

21. Christians don't have a holiday.

They don't. I'm pretty sure if Christians tried really hard they could figure out that Jesus birthday isn't Dec. 25. They borrowed a holiday from, gasp, pagans. So the argument is moot, imho.

[Swamp Rat]

25. LOL! Oh, the irony!

It's a pagan, commercial holiday. :D

O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
wie treu sind deine Blätter!
Du grünst nicht nur zur Sommerzeit,
Nein auch im Winter, wenn es schneit.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
wie treu sind deine Blätter!

O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum!
Du kannst mir sehr gefallen!
Wie oft hat nicht zur Weihnachtszeit
Ein Baum von dir mich hoch erfreut!
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum!
Du kannst mir sehr gefallen!

O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum!
Dein Kleid will mich was lehren:
Die Hoffnung und Beständigkeit
Gibt Trost und Kraft zu jeder Zeit.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum!
Das soll dein Kleid mich lehren.

[blackspade]

27. Oh boo hoo.

"This Christmas season, West has plenty of company. Christians and traditionalists across the nation, fed up with what they view as the de-emphasizing of Christmas as a religious holiday, are filing lawsuits, promoting boycotts and launching campaigns aimed at restoring references to Christ in seasonal celebrations."

Christians stole the Christmas holiday season from Northern European and older Middle Eastern religous traditions.
They coopted the traditions of the Yule tide season, The celedrations of Wotan, and in the case of Mithras practically his whole tradition.
Hell the halo is stolen from the roman god Helios.

The screaching of these folks at the erosion of their holiday is more indicative of the erosion of their faith which is obviously not strong.

[Mist]

35. That's how I see it

As a practicing pagan, should I insist the xtians stop using my religion's symbolism? After all, they're poaching from the real "old time religion" !!

[Prisonerohio]

28. Christmas under attack, bullshit!

The Christmas tree and lights are not Christian in origin. These come from the Roman holiday of Saturnalia. Mistletoe comes from the druids. The entire holidays origins are pagan. Christs birth was celebrated on this day as a process of assimilation of the pagan religions to Christianity. So everyone just chill out. There using this convince the bible thumpers that there is some vast left wing conspiracy against Christ.

[yellerpup]

31. Pagan origins co-opted by Christians

Jesus was born at tax time, which from ancient times, has been in the spring because that's when you get the biggest head count (census). An evergreen tree was brought into caves during the shortest days of winter and adorned with (usually dried) fruit to symbolize the miracle of having food in the time of hunger.

[Moloch]

198. Happy Holidays also refers to the non denominational new year

This woman is ridiculous.

[OneBlueSky]

29. these people call themselves Christians . . .

but they are some of the most hateful individuals imaginable . . . they think that "accepting Jesus Christ as my personal savior" is a cheap road to salvation, despite ignoring most of what Jesus taught and spreading their vile hatred of everyone who doesn't agree with them . . . I have no use for these "Christianoids" -- they're the worst kind of hypocrites . . .

[JerseygirlCT]

32. You know, if these "Christians" spent half the time actually

doing good for others that they spend whining... well the world might actually be a better place for them.

I'm so tired of listening to this rant. Inclusiveness and tolerance are now somehow bad things. Because everyone doesn't celebrate Christmas, somehow these folks are being harmed.

They have such a deep need for persecution they'll manufacture it whatever that takes. They all need serious psychological help.

[atommom]

34. Absolutely! Unfortunately, many are being fed these delusional

ideas by their churches, which are being egged on by prominent figures in the Religious Right. I think that if this phenomenon could be stripped down to its essence, it would turn out to be another tool to increase that feeling of righteous anger over being "persecuted" ... for the purpose of keeping the conservative base together. In the end, it's not about God. It's about power.

I find it all very frustrating, especially since much of my family has bought into this delusion hook, line, and sinker. :eyes:

[JerseygirlCT]

42. Yes, poor things are in a tough spot now

holing the WH, SC and Congress... must find something new to whine about.

"Poor, poor us, they won't let us stuff our idea of Christianity down their throats!"

[Kadie]

51. Your post made me think of this poem I heard years ago....

Listen Christian
by Bob Roland

I was hungry
and you formed a humanities club and discussed my hunger.
Thank you.

I was imprisoned
and you crept off quietly to your chapel in the cellar
and prayed for my release.

I was naked
and in your mind you debated the morality of my appearance.

I was sick
and you knelt and thanked God for your health.

I was homeless
and you preached to me of the spiritual shelter of the love of God.

I was lonely
and you left me alone to pray for me.

You seem so holy, so close to God.
But I'm still very hungry
and lonely
and cold.

[JerseygirlCT]

60. Oh I like that!

[MisterP]

61. heck, that non-doer is still light-years ahead of the religious wrong

I was hungry
and you struck me and threw me into the street as a lazy "worthless eater."

I was imprisoned
and you crept off quietly to your chapel in the cellar
and prayed for my execution as I had probably killed someone anyway.

I was naked
and in your mind you debated the morality of my parents.

I was sick
and you knelt and thanked God for the world's upcoming "cleansing."

I was homeless
and you preached to me of the need to give to those that already have more than any earthly creature could use.

I was lonely
and you left me alone to pray for me.

[countryjake]

38. A bit of irony...

I saw on CNN this morning that our prez's white house party was considered a slap in the face to the Christian-bloc who put him there for another term.

He only used the term "Happy Holidays" & kept the occasion way too generic to suit many fundamentalists, who claim they're being let down. Even tho his official Xmas card contains bible verses from the old testament, they are saying that's not enough for a stalwart Christian president & his Xmas message at the white house could have been given by Kerry or worse.

Also, the boycotts they are waging in the thrust to put Christ back into Xmas are not helping the economy of this great "moral" nation & may in fact be speeding things into a downward spiral like hasn't been seen since the first half of the last century.

Whoo Hooo!

[cap]

39. couldnt we find a nice middle ground

of propagating a message of "Peace on Earth. Goodwill to Men". An call to action of doing things for the less fortunate. A reminder that XMAS isn't the season of shopping. If we take the true essence of XMAS, we would find a sense of peace and tolerance that everyone can enjoy.

Happy Birthday, Jesus cake just doesn't spread the message. Being divisive about XMAS wasnt what Jesus would have wanted on his special day. Why not something that spreads Goodwill to All Men.

Some of my cards were blank with doves on it. Peace on Earth.

[Northwind]

40. Personally...

I have been saying "Happy Annual Gift Day" for years.

[midnight armadillo]

43. If Christmas is so lacking in Christ, why do they shop so much?

Consumerism and retail buying frenzies ate up and spat out holiday spirit years ago. If they want there to be more religion and more Christ at Christmas, they should get out of the malls, stop shitting on other people's means of greeting, and go do some charity work.

Oh, wait, that means they'd actually have to be 'christian'! oh well.

[GinaMaria]

44. That's the consequence of co-opting a pagan holiday

Sorry, but it amazes me how many people who lable themselves as Christians do not know where the traditions of gift giving and the tree come from. These are solstice celebrations. This is why the Jehovah's witnesses do not celebrate x-mas.

How is it that the majority is convinced they are persecuted?

Merry Solstice Everyone!

On Edit: Isn't a birthday celebration pagan too? So this woman co-opted two pagan rituals to promote christianity?

[Cheswick2.0]

50. Christmas is not about gift giving or the tree

[GinaMaria]

203. sez who? you?

It can be whatever it is to you, but it's very much these things to others. The reason the early church adopted these pagan rituals was to convert pagans. They knew these things meant something to people. That's why they used them. Hell, forget adopt, highjacked is the word for it. It's a solstice celebration, candles, gifts, trees, singing....

Celebrate a birth... that's pagan too.

[ozone_man]

125. Gift giving and tree decoration, etc. are part of the pagan holidays

that Christmas was co-opted from. This is what I celebrate, nothing to do with Christ or Christianity. I have to laugh when I see these signs saying put Christ back in Christmas. I say get your own holiday and leave ours alone.

"Many symbols and practices associated with Christmas are of Pagan origin: holly, ivy, mistletoe, yule log, the giving of gifts, decorated evergreen tree, magical reindeer, etc. Polydor Virgil, an early British Christian, said "Dancing, masques, mummeries, stageplays, and other such Christmas disorders now in use with Christians, were derived from these Roman Saturnalian and Bacchanalian festivals; which should cause all pious Christians eternally to abominate them." In Massachusetts, Puritans unsuccessfully tried to ban Christmas entirely during the 17th century, because of its heathenism. The English Parliament abolished Christmas in 1647."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm

[Hobarticus]

47. How can teaching about other cultures and faiths denigrate Christianity?

This is utterly absurd.

Maybe by teaching children other perspectives, we can make them better people than their goofy parents.

Maybe, that's exactly what they're afraid of.

Christians in public schools act like a spoiled kid at a birthday party: no one else is supposed to benefit at their so-called expense.

Barf.

Happy birthday, Jesus. Sorry people are stupid, we haven't learned a thing from you.

[Cheswick2.0]

49. I would be happy if we got rid of all the hoopla altogether

and returned Christmas to the people who want to celebrate the real meaning of the day.
Everyone else could celebrate whatever they want, winter solstice, festivus or whatever. All this spending and partying is bizarre.

Leave the whole thing out of school, Christmas, Hanuka, Kwanzaa etc...

[countryjake]

56. Sorry, that doesn't jibe with capitalistic tradition.

Econ.I0I Chapt. 10, Verse 3

Shop, my children, Shop.

[mumon]

55. "What's the matter with recognizing the reason behind the whole holiday?"

Does she mean the suppression of pagan holidays like Saturnalia?

[yorkiemommie1]

59. i am just going to say , "Peace"

Since i decided to wear only a small peace symbol on a chain (being fashion conscious i have a gold and a silver one, ha ha) i might as well be consistent. Not wearing any christmas/holiday garb this year, either. Not until this war is OVer.

[Jacobin]

62. If they were secure in their own beliefs

they wouldn't require everyone to jump on their little fantasy bandwagon.

[Blue_Tires]

65. how many fucking similar stories have we seen DAILY

for the past month??? well, the GOP wanted to turn a nonissue into THE wedge issue of the new year, and the media has been oh so helpful in making it happen

[0007]

80. damn

[Zenaholic]

66. Does Christmas have anything to do with Christ?

Don't we kind of worship Santa Clause and Rudolf both of which are fabrications of Monkey Ward and Coke-a-cola.

Santa Clause is coming to town...have a coke!

Rudolf the red nosed consumer had a very shiney gold card.

And isn't the real reason we celbrate at this time of year because winter sucks and we need something to help us make it through til spring?

Happy Winter Solstice! (or Have a Fruitful Yule -I liked that one thanks Sentath!)

[VegasWolf]

67. The pagan holiday was co-opted about the time the Council of Nicea

voted that the man Jesus was a diety. The vote succeeded
by a narrow margin. Pagan symbols were co-opted to let the
sheep feel right a home with the new religion christianity.

[VegasWolf]

68. How about "Happy Invisible Man In the Sky Day!" n/t

[Pathwalker]

69. Shit, I thought it was Julius Ceasar's birthday!

Doesn't the Bible say Jesus was born in the spring???

[IHeart1993]

70. All I have to say is ....

It's the year 2004. We live in an international world. Live with it.

[tinymontgomery]

71. Dylan said it best

"to flesh colored Christ's that glow in the dark.
It's easy to see without looking too far that not much is really sacred".
It's alright ma (i'm only bleeding)
by
Bob Dylan

Nothing is sacred today. Light up your navity, I guess that's how it really was back in the days that jesus was born.

[reprobate]

73. In contrast to this True American, France is giving up christianity.

Saw a tv report that most french diacese have several empty churches. They are so short on priests that they are importing them from africa.

Meanwhile, in kristian america they attempt to tell us that science is the false god. There is something basically sick in this country. Rational thought is no longer acceptable.

[u4ic]

74. I've seen Season's Greetings

since I was a kid and I'm almost 40. :wtf:

It ain't new.

[smirkymonkey]

75. Jesus Christ.

that's all I have to say.

[KansDem]

79. Happy Birthday, Jesus!!!

Jesus Hernaiz (born Jan. 8, 1945)

How nice of this lady to remember a ballplayer who played the game 30 years ago...:)

[NYC]

81. Will she campaign against Santa Claus?

He's not Jesus Christ, and it's not his birthday. I think she should spend Christmas day in church.

[October]

82. It's the Solstice, really

So...if they really want to go there...I say "Let's!!!"

[Politicub]

84. "You *will* worship Jesus

or you will get sued. Bow down, maggot!"

Who are these freaks?

[genieroze]

85. I agree with this part.

" She's annoyed with department stores that use "Season's Greetings" banners, and with public schools that teach about Hanukkah and Kwanzaa but won't touch the Nativity story.
The seasons greetings doesn't bother me but they shouldn't teach about Hanukkah and Kwanzaa without teaching the origins of Christmas as well. I don't remember my school teaching ANY of it. We used to sing holiday, Christmas and Hanukkah songs for our winter concert though.

[genieroze]

86. MSM says happy holidays or seasons greetings. How come they

don't have their undies tied up in a knot over that, Hummm?

[strobetoad]

93. Typical Xian Hate Tactic

The "Stick Up For Christmas" campaign is like all things from the Christian Right - untrue, absurd, hateful, and swallowed by more Americans than thinking people want to think about.

That the Christian Right should now make Christmas a time of contention speaks volumes about their willful ignorance and blindly obsessive self-interest.

They're not making any friends, but they don't care. After all, they're on a Crusade!

[SemperEadem]

220. and Crusades are about killing as many people

who don't believe what you believe as you can---while believing you gain merit in the eyes of God.

[RetroLounge]

99. Merry Giftmas

RL

[Kimber Scott]

100. It is Christ's Mass and has been celebrated as such for nearly 2000 years.

Get over it people. Christmas is a religious holiday. I don't celebrate it that way, I'm not a Christian - anymore. But, really, it is CHRISTmas. And, yes, I know it USED to be a pagan holiday, but that's not how it's been celebrated for a while. And I know, it wasn't celebrated in this country the way it is now - before marketing departments figured out they could sell a lot more stuff, if they pushed the gift end of the whole idea. How ever it's been changed, or "hijacked," or sullied it is still the celebration of the birth of Christ - and, yes, I know he was probably born in the spring...

Merry Christmas everybody!

(God, everybody's so touchy nowadays.)

[LeftyMom]

118. That's not how it's been celebrated for a while?

Yaeah, nobody's celebrated Yule since............. yesterday.

Have a lovely new year anyhow!

[Cobalt Violet]

174. It :"used" to be pagan?

So there was a Xmas tree in the manger? What kind of ornaments did Jesus have?

[Porcupine]

186. Like the Xtian Taliban would ever go to Mass on "Christmas"

hell most of them don't go to mass on a regular Sunday either. If they haven't noticed, unless they are Catholic they are HERETICS.

Unless of course you believe that individuals should have freedom of conscience and should be able to choose to worship Christ, or not, as they see fit.

The Anabaptists and Calvinists from whom they are spiritually descended would be horrified to see their plastic, electric light, sugar coated Christmas. Behavior like that would have earned you a few days in the stocks.

[GinaMaria]

204. "how ever it's been changed or hijacked or sullied"

it is still a pagan worship day.

Happy Solstice to you
Happy Solstice to you
Happy Solstice dear Kimber
Happy Solstice to you.

[Piperay]

101. What is wrong with saying Happy Holidays

it includes ALL the Holidays and means HOLY day! :grr: I am so tired of this ridiculous made up victimization, they're so anal. :argh:

[AliciaKeyedUp]

103. No victimization, but what's wrong with Merry Christmas

That is the holiday the vast majority are celebrating. So why shouldn't those of us who are doing so, say it?

Merry Christmas.

[sonicx]

104. people who celebrate it can say it. that's not the issue.

What these 'christians' are trying to do is make sure everyone else says it. did you read the story?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

111. They are entitled to try

If you shop at a store and don't like their policies, you have a choice to shop elsewhere for instance.

[sonicx]

114. They aren't choosing to stop eslewhere. They are filing lawsuits.

Do you think it's OK it force Christmas recognition?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

115. You need to elaborate a bit on your question

It is a national holiday for instance. So you have to recognize it.

While I don't think you should go to court to force someone to say Merry Christmas, I think it is OK for an employer to mandate it as a business policy.

So flesh out your question a bit.

[sonicx]

116. What do you mean "So you have to recognize it"?

no, they don't

[AliciaKeyedUp]

131. Well, it's a federal holiday

So, if you try to bank, work in most places, etc., it will impact you. So you have no choice but to at least be aware or get quite a shock.

[VegasWolf]

119. Again, what is wrong with "Happy Hollidays," it seems to satisify

everyone, while Merry Christmas is targeted only for
those people who believe in jesus.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

132. In the U.S. most people believe in Jesus

So why should we hide that?

Merry Christmas.

[VegasWolf]

137. so might makes right, huh. No wonder christianity is doomed. BTW

most people in the world don't believe in christ.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

143. No might about it

The holiday reflects the overwhelming support of the population, that's all.

In other nations I expect they celebrate THEIR holidays. Nothing wrong with that either.

I wouldn't expect to have Christmas Day off if I worked in a non-Christian nation for instance.

[VegasWolf]

146. So, you admit that their god is just as good as your god. n/t

[AliciaKeyedUp]

151. No

I admit their God might work for them just as their holidays work for them.

And I personally believe there is only one God and it doesn't matter what name you use in worship.

[VegasWolf]

153. or names right, in the case of polytheistic beings. All the many ways

to get to heaven huh.

[VegasWolf]

175. Alica, Alica, do you believe a Buddhist can get to heaven after

enough reincarnations?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

176. I don't see why not? Not that I know anything about reincarnation

But I'm not the one making that decision on heaven.

[VegasWolf]

199. Good, then you're not hung up on this Christianity is the only "true"

religion, it's just one of many.

[StuckinKS]

178. This is not a "Christian Nation"

No matter what Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson tell you. This is another fallacy put forth by the Religious Right in order to gain even more power. It's like saying, "This is a Christian Nation, so Christians deserve more rights and everyone else should feel lucky that we let them live in our nation at all. If you don't like it, move to some non-Christian nation."

See how absurd that sounds? But my local paper has a letter nearly every day espousing just that view.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

180. Americans are overwhelmingly Christian

We call Muslim nations Muslim even though Turkey is secular. The same rule applies.

[StuckinKS]

183. Apples to Oranges

But most people do not use that reference because a majority are Christians. They are saying that because they feel that the US was formed explicitly as a Christian nation, they somehow have a mandate.

Now why does that word sound familiar?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

223. I use the reference to accurately describe the U.S.

Its current population is vastly Christian.

[TheWatcher]

161. "In the U.S. most people believe in Jesus"

I would absolutely LOVE to see hard statistical data on where this is true.

Most people?

Care to be more specific?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

162. Sure

From the 2003 Statistical Abstract of the United States:

Adult population, total: 207,980,000
Total Christian: 159,506,000

Add to it not everyone even bothered to respond.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/03statab/pop.pdf

[Cobalt Violet]

173. That isn't the numbers who actually practice it.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

177. Exactly

but those facts don't support her hypothesis.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

181. Feel free to deliver other statistics

From an equally reputable source.

[Cobalt Violet]

184. I'm not talking about statistics. I'll deliver the actions.

I'm talking about ACTIONS.

Like this for example from our born-again president.




Maybe you can have a Merry Christmas, other are not.

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cobalt Violet]

179. Most people who watch FauX News believe Saddam had WMD,

And cause 9/11. But that doesn't make it true.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

182. It seems like DU ratings for Faux must be high

Why the heck do so many here watch that crap?

And belief in God is based on faith. No amount of arguing here will change my belief.

[Moloch]

237. I don't know.

That is such a good question. Why do so many DUers watch Faux News? I would think that all of us would know how horribly biased they are. I mean, they aren't even trying to be "fair and balanced" anymore. I have no idea why any democrat would want to watch that crap. Myself, I get my news from LBN here on DU!

[orpupilofnature57]

105. excuse me MERRY CHRISTMAS! does that really feel oppressive

[arikara]

216. Nothing wrong with it at all

But forcing people to say it? This is just another ridiculous propaganda concoction to cover up the true issues.

Happy Solstice!

[Piperay]

107. Nothing wrong with it

if you want to say it. I kinda like Happy Holidays because it includes Christmas and New Years too and I don't want someone telling me I am anti-Christain cause I say HAPPY HOLIDAYS. It is anal for these people to make such a thing out of a nice greeting. I guess the simpliest way to stay out of trouble is to just say "Hi" and "Have a nice day" leaving out all special greetings, maybe they would prefer that. :shrug:

HAPPY HOLIDAYS ...

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ozzy]

228. Merry Christmas DU

[Kathy in Cambridge]

229. Happy Holidays and Merry Festivus!

[VegasWolf]

232. and Happy XMAS! n/t

[ktowntennesseedem]

102. Same bunch of morons offended when they see "Xmas"

They say that X is a term from algebra that stands for "unknown" and therefore Xmas is taking Christ out of Christmas. (Actually they probably flunked algebra and that's the only thing they can remember from high-school math!)

Too dumb to know that X is actually the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter of the name Christ when written in Greek, the original language of the New Testament.

[VegasWolf]

113. actually (2x + y)mass. Is the "ktown" for knoxville?n/t

[ktowntennesseedem]

166. Knoxville it is!

[VegasWolf]

172. I spent three years there, ever get up to gatlinburg? n/t

[ktowntennesseedem]

190. usually a couple of times a year

but I often skip Gatlinburg and head straight to the GSM park, especially when I need to get away for a few hours. As crowded as it tends to be, there are still plenty of places to go and get away from everyone; best stress-relief ever in my opinion!

[captain jack]

117. BAH HUMBUG BIIIIIIIIIITCH!!!!

I wonder what was in the cake. She probably gave out free grape kool-aid as well. Who's Julie Jones anyway?

[Cymbaline68]

120. Instead of a cake for Jesus at school

How about providing a hot meal to someone who is hungry? Or warm clothes to someone who does not have any?
But no, that does not get any media attention, does it????
I think the big guy would MUCH rather people like Julie help others than do stupid stuff like this.
Happy Holidays-may each of us in our own unique way celebrate the season.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

135. Wishing someone dies?

All because you don't like her religious opinions?

Disgusting.

[Ripley]

160. Kinda like the war in Iraq?

Where American soldiers kill Muslims (i.e. terrorists?).

And AmSouth Bank cancelling bank accounts - personal and business - to those of Middle Eastern heritage. Including Professors and Civil Engineers....just because some of them have family in Jordan.

How would you like your entire business destroyed based upon your heritage?

My Sunday paper snip:

Ridgeland, Miss: After three years as an Amsouth Bank customer, Imad Aleithawe got a one-page form letter telling him his account had been closed.

The bank refuses to explain why, citing confidentiality and a broadly written customer agreement allowing accounts to be shut down at any time "for any reason."

snip> In October, AmSouth was ordered to pay $40 million to the federal government in an agreement with prosecutors over its failure to report a money laundering scheme that bilked investors in four states.

snip> Aleithawe, a (civil engineer with the Mississippi state transportation department) 45-year-old father of two..."

How Christian of that bank to steal and blatently discriminate.

[Moloch]

194. Wow. That is rotten to it's core.

I had never heard that about AmSouth bank.

[mitchum]

187. Where did I say that?

Where?
Perhaps someone needs to remove the beam from their eye...

SEASON'S GREETINGS

[VegasWolf]

139. I'm waiting for Happy Lightening Day and Thunder Monday myself.

[frustrated_lefty]

148. Morons.

It's not even a Christian holiday in origin, it was co-opted from pagan-based beliefs.

Poor freaking monkeys control the federal, legislative and judicial branches, but they whine because the threat of "liberalism" places a blemish on their favorite shiny toy.

The same asswads show less distress when their kindred kill their own children, chop off their children's arms, or drag a man behind the rear of their truck until his fucking eyes pop out. Fuck these fundamentalists and fuck their concern for their sensitive natures.

Hey, if you're christian, follow christian beliefs, practice what you preach, great, more power to you. The fucktards who represent you leave a foul taste in the mouth, a foul stench in the nose. Fix the sick in your own flock before you come preaching to the rest of us who are just trying to make the world a better place in real, tangible ways.

These whiny bastards are sickening.

[PAdem2]

207. I just can't figure out

why, after the election, Catholics & other Christians felt disenfranchised by the Democratic party. Total mystery to me.

[Cobalt Violet]

163. Did anyone ever tell these people department stores aren't churches?

Are they that stupid?

[Tinoire]

189. They'd do better to protest Iraq if they're that concerned

about Christmas' religious nature. Until then, they best shut up. Jesus is more interested in peace than he is in a f*cking "chocolate cake with vanilla frosting and red icing that spelled out "Happy Birthday Jesus".

Happy Birthday indeed.

Seems to me Christmas had more to do with something about "good will towards men", "peace", and a poor babe born in a stable. But then again, I could be wrong. I'm just a mainstream Christian who reads the WHOLE Bible.
==================


And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem…

To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

"And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she brought forth her first-born son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

And the angel said unto them, Fear not, for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes,lying in a manger.

And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God,and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.


1 Luke 2:1, 3-14

[FlyByNight]

197. Does the rampant commercialism...

seem to bother them?

[Lorien]

200. It bothers me. I'm not a Christian, but I would

prefer Christmas to be a more humble (less commercial) Holiday myself. I like giving gifts, but just one small gift and a card to each friend and loved one would be best. Wouldn't it be amazing if Christmas were a day when people actually thought to behave in a way that's, well, Christian? What if we changed the tradition; go next door, and ask what you can do to help your neighbor? or everyone gives gifts to the poor only? Won't ever happen, because most Americans have chosen to be consumers over citizens, and most love the commercial hype.

BTW- I'm sticking to "Happy Holidays"("Holiday" means Holy Day, so I don't see why most Christians can't love the term) on my cards; I have Jewish and Buddhist friends too, and I don't want to exclude them. America IS all about diversity, after all!

[nascarblue]

205. A must see...

These videos
answer questions as to "why". Ever wonder why
an American president would wreck the country?



http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.wmv

http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/liberty.wmv

[sakabatou]

206. I also believe the the Christian part of Christmas

is being downgraded, but to file a lawsuit? GAH!

[Name removed]

208. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

209. Do you have a comment?

Anything relevant to add? Or are you just going to keep inundating threads with this story?

[johnny walker]

211. It is an upsetting story!

Good grief, this story in a nutshell explains why we are losing elections and America!

[JimmyJazz]

213. This is a stupid, stupid story. You want something to get upset

about! Here:



OR Here:




Now come tell me about a kid who had to go home and change his clothes!

[Name removed]

212. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GoBlue]

210. Meanwhile back at the ranch

Julie has the recognition she wanted for herself. Way to go, Julie.

[SemperEadem]

215. And I wonder...

if Ms. West is maxing out her credit cards this month buying a bunch of items for people for a holiday which in no way represents the true meaning behind xmas?

It's one thing to have this conviction; it's quite another to willingly take part in the consumerism and commercialism of the holiday while bitching and moaning about not being told "Merry Xmas".

I'd like to know just how devout she is in her conviction.

[yorkiemommie1]

221. shut the whining julie

your religiosity doesn't impress me. i was always taught that christians would be known by their good deeds, not by their bitching for attention.

i don't care WHAT any sales clerk or store does when i am a customer. Just be reasonably efficient and give me the correct change.

once again, julie. shut the **** up.

[Piperay]

224. The 'Christians' should take their complaint to the big corporations

they are the ones who have taken Christmas and turned it into a gluttony of gifts and greed, made it totally commercial and consumer oriented. x(

[ThoughtCriminal]

226. Ironic

In one of the many lawsuits regarding Nativity displays on city property a few years back, I thought it ironic that the lawyers DEFENDING the display argued that that Christmas was a SECULAR holiday. The ACLU (I think), was the side claiming it was a RELIGIOUS holiday. So who is really secularizing the holiday?

IMHO people who are offended by "Merry Christmas" are grumps. People who are offended by "Seasons Greetings" and "Happy Holidays" are insane.

[VegasWolf]

227. How about a nativity scene featuring the baby bush ? n/t

[Jawja]

234. My email to

www.savemerrychristmas.org:

"If your organization would just dedicate some time and resources into studying the HISTORY of the Christmas season before launching a crusade to cram your limited little viewpoint down the rest of America's collective throat, you would learn that early Christians STOLE the holiday from Pagan traditions and used it as the arbitrary "birthdate" of Jesus.

CHRIST was never IN the holiday season until the Christian Church took it over!

Why don't you folks get a life and do something REALLY meaningful with your faith? Instead of forcing major department stores to say "Merry Christmas," why not boycott them for turning YOUR celebration of Jesus into a CONSUMER based marketing device?? Wouldn't that fit in with the "money changer" tirade displayed by your "Son of God?" Or how about putting CHRIST back into YOUR celebration by visiting folks in prison and in hospitals and in homeless shelters and spreading some of the LOVE your "Son of God" spoke so eloquently of?

The only people guilty of taking CHRIST out of YOUR "Christmas" celebration is YOU YOURSELVES. When you start practicing the real teachings of your "Son of God" and stop this obnoxious public display of HYPOCRICY, then you will have succeeded in putting "Christ" back into YOUR "Christmas" celebration.

So until you study a little bit of history and start living the teachings of Jesus, please leave the rest of us alone to acknowledge and celebrate the Winter celebration traditions without interference from such a frivolous cause as yours.

Seasons Greetings!"

[Kathy in Cambridge]

235. Excellent email. I love this quote:

"Or how about putting CHRIST back into YOUR celebration by visiting folks in prison and in hospitals and in homeless shelters and spreading some of the LOVE your "Son of God" spoke so eloquently of?"


Amen! And Happy Holidays! :hi:

[Jawja]

236. Thanks!

Happy Holidays and Good Cheer to you, too. :hi:

[Moloch]

238. Great Letter!

I doubt the folks at savemerrychristmas.org will even read it, it doesn't sound like they have much tolerance for dissenting viewpoints.