Another guard unit decries training, equipment ("We should throw stones?")

[Barrett808]

HOUSTON -- Members of a second National Guard unit that prepared for duty in Iraq at the Army's Fort Bliss compound have come forward with allegations that they were not adequately trained. The soldiers said in interviews, e-mails and official documents that they were sent to war earlier this year with chronic illness, broken guns and trucks with blown transmissions.

The unit's M-60 machine guns reportedly were in such bad condition when the soldiers deployed in February that one sergeant -- in a section of a post-training summary sent to his commanders that was titled "gun maintenance" -- wrote: "Perhaps we should throw stones?"

The allegations come a month after another National Guard unit alleged that its training at Fort Bliss was so poor that soldiers feared incurring needlessly high casualties when they arrive in Iraq early next year.

Although the military has defended its troop preparedness, the willingness of units to go public with allegations suggests growing concern among National Guard and reserve members.

(more)

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-04/12-23-04/a02wn494.htm

[pinerow]

1. i'll take the word of a grunt over a Pentagon

jack-ass any day of the week...

[leftofcool]

3. ...........whine! whine! whine!

They just need to get right with Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezuz. After all, you get the army you have, not the one you want.

Left of Cool

<sarcasm off>

[BikeWriter]

29. Yep, if they didn't want to be killed they should have been born...

with a silver spoon in their nose, er, mouth.

[Brundle_Fly]

30. STONES???

I recommend SPITBALLS!

F*CK YOU SHRUB!

[merh]

2. I saw a train loaded with national guard equipment headed east

one day and I burst in to tears. Though newly painted, it was evident that the vehicles were old as the hills and in poor shape (dented, worn medal). The horrible "sand" yellow they were painted seemed to make their imperfections more pronouced. We are sending our guys over there to die - it is just that plane and simple. :cry: How I hate this admin. :argh:

[pokercat999]

31. I saw a program on PBS about a National Guard unit from AR.

These guys and gals were mostly dirt poor and it was obvious they joined up only to have the extra income. They were a transportation company, their NEWEST 5 ton truck was a 1964 model their oldest was a 1950 something model. They managed to make their way to Kuwait only to have to tow several of their vehicles into Iraq. This so reminded me of the US Army in 1972, I was sick watching it.

What may have been worse was watching the old and I mean OLD guys trying to do PT. Theses guys were well over 200 lbs, many I'm sure pushing the 250-275 range. They could barely run or jump. The last show in the series gave the name and ranks of the KIA up to that point, mostly SFC and Staff Sgts, all the older heavy guys.

Ever notice how the list of KIA in this "war" only consists of enlisted and very low ranking officers. When was a field grade officer (major and above) KIA in our "army"? Guess they just "administer" the war and don't actually have to leave their safe houses in the "green zone".

[Mika]

4. Call Zell Miller, maybe he can get Kerry to fund spitballs

:puke:

[MSgt213]

10. Do you think I could get a couple zillion dollar government contract for

spit balls.

[Mokito]

33. and then you can start up a sweat...err...spitshop in Taiwan!

[lonestarnot]

36. This post hysterical!

[Barkley]

5. We spend more on defense that the next five countries combined and

our soldiers have "broken guns and trucks with blown transmissions".

and they're digging in Iraqi landfills for metal to protect their vehicles from road-side explosions.

But let a Iraqi oil pipe line get sabotaged...

I bet it won't take six months to fix that!



Thanks Barette808, I always enjoy reading your posts and comments!

[MisterP]

18. Bush 05: clearly this means that we must pay even more!

[TahitiNut]

19. Actually we spend nearly as much as the rest of the world combined.

... and more than the next TWENTY-FIVE countries combined. Our nuclear arsenal is enough to destroy the planet twenty times over.

[Barkley]

43. Thanks for the correction!

I wonder if the troops are connecting the dots.

I am very upset with that kinda money being spent/ available and seeing troops ill prepared.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

51. we pay plenty for a well equiped army, if they'd stop the siphoning n/t

[tblue37]

40. Yes,

because that money is going to Bush/Cheney cronies and to contractors that contribute to Republican campaigns, not to purchase actual equipment. It's war profiteering, and supplying the troops is the alst thing they care about.

[rocktivity]

6. Maybe they should try the spitballs Zell Miller recommended.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Solly Mack]

7. True story

just prior to deploying to Iraq, my husbands company had 50 cals mounted on their vehicles, with only 3 people trained in the enitre company on how to fire a 50 cal.

If you don't know what you're doing, a 50 cal will blow up on you.

So off comes the 50 cals(the rifles, not the mount)...cause enough soldiers said "Hell no"

asked if the 50 cals couldn't be traded for armor...

NO. The funding was for 50 cals and not armor. Paperwork, you see...

So, off they go with maybe 4 vehicles armored and useless mounts they had to take off in Kuwait. Useless mounts because the rifle they normally used didn't need the 50 cal mounts

It was 4 months before they got full armor and 6 months before they got proper plates for their flak vest.


and they still had the 50 cals & mounts when they returned. Boxed in a CONX. They were forced to take the 50 cals with them as it was now a part of their combat inventory.

and that's not even the half of it...

[marew]

13. Just shut up and kill Iraqis!!

After all you really mean nothing to us. I mean you are the army we have, not the army we want! Don't bother us with your petty little concerns. You are expendable, you know. So there were no WMD's and Iraq had nothing to with 9/11. Fooled you, didn't we!!! Love, Bush and Rummy

(Sarcasm off)

I swear I don't know how these Bushco jerks sleep at night. My heart cries for those who have died and been injured and maimed for life. I feel so for the families who must live for so long without their loved ones and for those families who will always mourn those who will never come home. And I hurt also for the innocent Iraqi people who have died and have had their lives destroyed for maniac Bush's insane desire to be a war president. May God forgive him, I sure won't!!!

[Solly Mack]

14. I agree. They'll have to seek their absolution elsewhere

Not getting it from me either.

[A Simple Game]

45. I don't know how these Bushco jerks sleep at night?

You answered your question in the first paragraph. Sadly I feel that what you wrote in the first paragraph is true.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

52. Love your logo, it says it all, about religion, politics, evolution n/t

[Solly Mack]

57. Thanks.

[Rose Siding]

8. Let Donald "What do I have to do to get fired" Rumsfeld explain...

how the media put them up to this

[Pithy Cherub]

9. The Pentagon obviously did not send the memo to these smart troops!

For all of the funds allocated, every single Pentagon person and their children responsible for this lack of equipment should be sent to Ira with exactly what these soldiers have and perform their duties!

[bpilgrim]

11. todays young'n have been well trained to speak up for what they want

thanks corporate america :evilgrin:

peace

[HawkerHurricane]

12. Poor training, poor equipment.

"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war".

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

15. "We go to war with the broken down ill equipped army we have at the time!"

[alfredo]

16. the military has to stand up against the suits who are

fucking them over. If they don't they are complicit in sending our soldiers to their deaths.

[tsuki]

53. It's the Pentagon generals that are f*cking over the troops. They

are afraid to speak up, just like the "librul" press.

I'm afraid it is up to the troops.

[alfredo]

59. I hope it doesn't have to be that way.

[sonicx]

17. Sounds like he's been getting jokes from Zell Miller.

Zell supported exactly what he was against.

[leftofthedial]

20. hey! you conquer the world

with the stormtroopers you have

not with the stormtroopers you wish you had

[leftchick]

21. I am sure this is all Bill Clinton's fault...

he should have anticipated our NG would be sent to an illegal war in Iraq uand spend an illegal occpation there for years to come once the frat boy* was selected.

[BikeWriter]

28. It's all because he got a Lewinsky

as an aide.

[sam sarrha]

22. I drove a bus for the soldiers at Fort Bliss till last February, The 101st

Air Born troops there came in the bus, I drove a load of Nat Guard to an Urban Training sight, while i was waiting a bunch of 101st soldiers came in and sat down and were talking about the training the Guard was getting.. "They wont last 2 days".."I hope the Poor Sons of Bitches are are there to be cooks or clerks"..."I couldn't watch that any more, poor Fucks.. my whole platoon got taken out in 10 minutes" "they aren't getting trained", "they aren't regular soldiers they're clerks"

these people were put in ABYSMAL housing, out in NM in the desert.. no insulation, faulty heating and CRAMMED into old sheds with 2 little windows.

they dragged their guns on the ground, they had no idea how to use them or take care of them... they banged them around on stuff.. they had no idea what it was all about. and the Guns are crap.. have been sense Nam..same crap.

[sam sarrha]

23. The worst part was that the busses were unsafe, bad brakes, bad steering..

The company fired me for red tagging a bus that lost 40 lbs of air tank pressure in 8 seconds on the static test.. i was considered "not a team player", and had Problems getting out of the yard because i would red tag up to 5 busses before i got one that could pass a brake test.. I wasn't being picky.. there were SERIOUS problems.. a bus that wont hold air with the engine off that also does not have functioning spring brakes that come on when the air fails and it changes lanes because there is 120* play in the steering.. I would tag a bad bus and it would show up 10 minutes later beside me at the base. The Mexicans from Juarez would drive anything.. we got $8 an hour, minimum wage in Mexico is $4.50 a day, they don't care.. it is a job, their families are hungry.

I had 50 soldiers and all their stuff and the brakes failed and i went through a 5 lane intersection without slowing down.. The DOT did nothing.. apparently there was something funny going on here..

I went in one morning and there were 4 Mexican 'mechanics' working on something.. 2 were holding it and one had a torch on it red hot, and one was pounding on it really hard with a 4 pound hammer with both hands.. i went over and looked at it and it was a steering tie rod.. i got really depressed and was ill for months.. there just isn't anything i could do, I went to state, city,county and federal agency's.. they all said they couldn't do anything.. apparently the Bu$hies have tied all regulating agencies hands.

[rocktivity]

26. I can think of one bus that I wish had been red-tagged

The company fired me for red tagging a bus that lost 40 lbs of air tank pressure in 8 seconds on the static test...there were SERIOUS problems...a bus that won't hold air with the engine off that also does not have functioning spring brakes that come on when the air fails, and it changes lanes because there is 120* play in the steering...
I will never, never forget one of my bus trips home from college--every time it braked, I would have bet my first-born male child that the motor was going to fall out!

:headbang:
rocknation

[despairing optimist]

24. Look, you can get blown up with working guns and trucks too . . .

In the new faith-based army, all you need to do is make a wish and everything will work out fine.

[IndianaGreen]

25. More canon fodder for the imperial wars!

Where are the "Support the Troops" crowds? They should be demanding an unconditional and immediate withdrawal from Iraq!

[this_side_up]

27. Does anyone know how many over there are

full-time military and how many are part-timers?

I ask because I don't like what I've been thinking.

[annabanana]

32. What have you been thinking, C.Diem?

Everyone who CAN be sent over HAS been.

(do you feel that draft? My sons do)

[IndianaGreen]

34. If we insist on staying in Iraq...

you can bet that they will have to find a way to get people into the military, either through conscription, or by creating economic conditions that are so dire that the only way young men and women can have any hope is to join the military. What a deal, go to war in exchange for tuition money!

[WhiteTara]

35. According to Amy Goodman

the new plan is to hire S. and central Americans that we
trained during Iran/Contra and also the improvished young kids
who live there and replace our unwilling army with brown
skinned people so we don't have to talk about soldiers getting
killed.  I would attach a link, but I heard this on her show
Democracy Now and don't know how to get the link.

[IndianaGreen]

38. Sounds like an American version of the French Foreign Legion

except that the Foreign Legion still lost Vietnam and Algeria. This could turn out to be a very bloody decade.

[ashmanonar]

46. oh wonderful

imperialism...just peachy...although it doesn't surprise me at all, the whole iraq debacle is obviously an "imperialist plot"...

hmm...they trained the iran-contras nearly 20 years ago, under reagan...so...this whole plot was hatched up 25 years ago? we know the pnac wrote their stupidity in 92, the whole "iraq is the perfect place to start our imperial ambitions" paper...but it doesn't surprise me that they had plans far before that...

[this_side_up]

48. Makes sense to me.

Brown-skinned foreigners would have no trouble
mowing down American citizens while they are
protesting :(

[this_side_up]

47. Yes, a HUGE draft beyond what

I consider normal.

In addition, a poster (sorry, don't remember their
name or thread) commented that the Reserve and NG
people ARE the local community. they KNOW each
other and everyone in town knows them.

So why are they over there with lousy equipment
and having had to do months of training for this
war rather than the Active people who supposedly
have the best equipment and train every day?

Here it is: I hope the NG remembers Kent State
and do not intend to repeat it - killing local
people on the * orders.

But Active people? They have no connection
except with their version of local which is
other Active people. Would they shoot/bomb
American citizens if there are protests?
I think they would.

[TexasBushwhacker]

56. It's my understanding it's currently 50/50

50% regular military and 50% guardsmen and reservists. I believe the total is around 140K.

[lonestarnot]

37. Another dose of schizophrenia

Why do people enlist to kill and be killed for no reason? Support the troups my ass! America's finest my ass! Bunch of brain washed bullies!

[tomreedtoon]

39. It's a plan of population control.

This is deliberately thinning the population of blacks and rural rednecks, who breed like rabbits. It's similar to the same process used by the Imperial Army in "Star Wars," who also lost a lot of their stormtroopers. Throw enough bodies at a problem and it will eventually be solved.

And after all, it isn't abortion, which would be a sin against God.

[this_side_up]

49. But isn't there always a baby

boom after a war ends, so worldwide populations would
increase. But this war isn't going to end.

[hoosierblue]

41. Why is it...

Bush gets a yacht for being a sucky leader, but the soldiers get to dig in landfills?

I don't think Bush even has a soul.

[Squatch]

42. The M-60 was replaced

by the M-249 and M-240B about a decade ago in the active Army. Only a few units still have the M-60.

I bet they still have M-16A1's, too.

[EC]

44. SO ALL THE MONEY HAS GONE WHERE? .....

You'd think the people of our grand ole party would at least start to question it's leadership...WHERE HAS THE MONEY THAT HAS BEEN APPROPRIATED FOR THESE THINGS GONE?

I'll tell you where into the pockets of Haliburton, Carlyse, Kelloge and Brown, Caci, Blackwater and mercenaries. Alot of people getting rich on the blood of our guys and the ownership of Iraq.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

58. Thats right, there has been plenty of funding, it just was stolen

[bobbieinok]

50. WHERE IN CORPORATE MEDIA IS THIS BEING REPORTED?????

how many 'average' no internet people know this????

I think if this were widely reported/know there WOULD be widespread ANGER 'all over this land'



IF I HAD A HAMMER (The Hammer Song)
words and music by Lee Hays and Pete Seeger

If I had a hammer
I'd hammer in the morning
I'd hammer in the evening
All over this land
I'd hammer out danger
I'd hammer out a warning
I'd hammer out love between my brothers and my sisters
All over this land

If I had a bell
I'd ring it in the morning
I'd ring it in the evening
All over this land
I'd ring out danger
I'd ring out a warning
I'd ring out love between my brothers and my sisters
All over this land

If I had a song
I'd sing it in the morning
I'd sing it in the evening
All over this land
I'd sing out danger
I'd sing out a warning
I'd sing out love between my brothers and my sisters
All over this land

Well I've got a hammer
And I've got a bell
And I've got a song to sing
All over this land
It's the hammer of justice
It's the bell of freedom
It's the song about love between my brothers and my sisters
All over this land

©1958, 1962 (renewed), 1986 (renewed)
TRO-Ludlow Music, Inc. (BMI)

[not fooled]

54. so...why do the soldiers support *???

mystery of mysteries: how these folks can support the asshole who sends them to their deaths, for lies and imperialism. WHY do they like *??? must be that cheerleader vibe.

[Q]

55. This is all about the LIE that GOPers are better at 'national security'...

...and 'supporting the troops'. They're spending billions of dollars on a 'missile defense' system and weapon systems that will never be used and they leave their troops without the basic necessities. They were thrown into an unecessary war without the ability to defend themselves.

Bush* is a damned disgrace.

[Mugsy]

60. Price tag for all this?

Not enough armor. Not enough bullets even. Poor equipment. Undermanned and a resistance growing in number, boldness and confidence.

And what is the price tag so far?

[Serial Mom]

61. Dubya & Co want to keep it like this

So we, out of the goodness of our hearts, supply the troops with what they need

- send them with too few armored vest? - parents and friends and strangers (all who already pay taxes) provide them

- troops need walkie-talkie radios to communicate with each other? - parents and friends and strangers (all who already pay taxes) provide them

- troops drive Humvees with not enough armor? - troops improvise (who are already putting themselves at great risk, who also pay taxes) and provide it

We help out and provided one time, and this mis-administration comes to expect it for everything they are too cheap to give to the soldiers they send in harms way - we will soon be expected to provide the BASICS for the troops over and over again and forever in the future.

This will become true of many BASIC NEEDS of all of us. Our charitable and giving nature will take care of people, (with the exception of those who feel all should take care of themselves, pull yourselves up by your bootstraps - BUT THIS WORKS ONLY IF YOU HAVE BOOTS!)

on edit: spelling