Vioxx. Celebrex. Now Aleve. What's a Patient to Think?

[radfringe]

Vioxx. Celebrex. Now Aleve. What's a Patient to Think?
By ANAHAD O'CONNOR
Published: December 28, 2004
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/28/health/policy/28pain.html

When Audrey Eisen flicked her computer on last Monday night and read the news that the painkiller Aleve had been linked to heart attacks, she winced in disbelief.

Ms. Eisen, 64, a retired professor who lives in New York, had just returned from her drugstore with a package of Aleve. Her pharmacist allowed her to return it the next morning, no questions asked.

---snip---

"I was extremely angry," said Ms. Eisen, whose father, two uncles, and grandparents died of heart disease. "Now I just don't trust the Food and Drug Administration anymore. I told a friend of mine, who had also been on Celebrex, that I was sure there'd be some other surprise in a few days."

Many Americans who have relied for pain relief on pills believed to be safe say their faith has been eroded in the system intended to protect them. Longtime users of Celebrex and similar drugs are swearing off them, even though the details of the studies that led to the recent warnings are still under wraps, and other studies have found no added dangers.

[Krocksice]

1. I'd say don't trust the FDA!!!

They are crooked as all hell.

[Elise]

2. Absolutely.

They are in bed with the pharmaceutical companies, which also deserve no trust; and they both are in bed with the insurance companies which, in my opinion, need to be abolished and replaced with universal health care for all people in the US.

[Scairp]

63. Naprosyn is different

This stuff has been around for about 20 years, so it's rather strange that it took so long to determine that it could cause increased risk of heart attack. I can't take any of that stuff anyway so it doesn't affect me, but I know so many people who do. Pretty scary.

[ally_sc]

73. well i guess asprin is the answer

either that are controlled narcotics..

[SemperEadem]

81. naprosyn will burn a hole in your stomach, even if you take it

on a full stomach.

I'd rather deal with the initial problem than to exacerbate it or create a new one taking naprosyn.

[bluedonkey]

3. stop

taking all those damn pills!
I'm aware that sometimes it is necessary to take meds,but do your own research.

[illflem]

4. Americans are wimps

My bet is a large percentage of the folks taking these drugs could do without if they would just tolerate a little pain especially when the drugs are worse than the disease.

[Elise]

5. Not nice.

n/t

[Bridget Burke]

9. Not everybody is a masochist.

And people need to get about their lives--not possible when crippled by pain. Would some other treatment help with the pain, lessening the need for drugs? Perhaps. But who's going to do the research? The Pharmaceutical companies? Ho Ho. Our government? They have other uses for our tax dollars.

Any medication has pros & cons (even the herbal stuff). People need to know the whole truth before deciding what to take. Let's hope they ask their doctors & let's hope the doctors do a bit of study beyond the pharmaceutical promotional material.

[cmd]

11. That I already do

My hope for you is that you never have to enjoy the discomfort of an aching shoulder that keeps you from sleeping, or an arthritic knee that hurts worse when you are resting than it does when you move. I tolorate those little pains all day long, all week long.

When the debilitating pain comes - the one that keeps me completely off my feet; it's good to have those pain relievers around. I would like to feel confident taking them.

[havocmom]

15. you can have my arthritis, I'll keep the pain, but YOU deal with joints

which will not move when they flare up

Walk a mile in some of our shoes and you will drop the 'whimp' accusation.

[infusionman]

16. It's not just the pain...

These meds relieve inflammation allowing the person to improve their functioning and carry out their activities of daily living.

I was also on Celebrex. It caused me to have GI bleeding and eventually four hours of stomach surgery. This happened very quickly.

I did research the meds along with my doctor. We decided at the time the benefits of taking the drug outweighed the risks.

Vic Van Allen, RN

[OldLeftieLawyer]

57. Aspirin

You've got to take it as carefully as any other medication - full stomach, watch for side effects, etc. - but it's still a terrifically effective pain reliever and anti-inflammatory.

And no one is quite sure how or why it works.

But, when I got deathly ill from prescription NSAIDs, I moved over quickly to Tylenol, and have been fine with it.

[Ms_Mary]

18. My thoughts are that we have a punitive health care system

We won't keep you healthy. We won't tell you how to eat or exercise or that certain foods are really bad for you. We won't emphasize preventative care. That's because we can't profit off healthy people. We make money when we give you drugs and treatments. It's much easier to put you on a blood thinner and tell you not to eat leafy greens b/c thinning your blood too much can be dangerous than to tell you to try eating a lot of leafy greens first. It's easier to hand out a prescription than to HELP you be healthier.

[d.l.Green]

50. "Health Care" label is deceptive

Exactly, treat the symptom, not the cause. Easier to take a pill than change the diet. Easier to put the responsibility of "health" to someone else than oneself. Doctors are not trained in diet, their "expertise" is in prescribing drugs. Studies are paid for by the drug companies; FDA is stepping stone for those in the industry. There's no surprises in this story, just glad it's getting more attention. McDonald's in hospitals? Please...

[thecrow]

72. Unfortunately doctors are not trained

to help a patient deal with chronic pain either.

[thecrow]

22. It is obvious, illflem, that you have never been in pain

or tried to make it through the day "tolerating a little pain" on a daily basis. The thing about chronic pain is that it builds channels to the brain; these channels become oversensitized, intensifying the pain experience.
Try to cope with that over a period of YEARS and you'll know why people will do anything... even take pills... to escape the pain.

I had degenerative disc disease with pressure on my spinal cord and had to wait six months for surgery to relieve the pain. I took a lot of powerful pain pills during that time while I laid in bed screaming. Now I take pain pills to relieve what the surgery could not. I don't like the thought of pills, and do my best to reduce dosage where I can, but the pain is enough of a threat to carrying on my life in a "normal fashion" that I will probably take them for the rest of my life.

Would you please carry the pain for me... oh say... for the next six months while I stop taking the pain pills?
I though you would.

[illflem]

28. BS

I was injured in Vietnam and spent 4 months in a VA hospital. Think I know pain, it still hurts and I limp but take no drugs.

[Bridget Burke]

40. You are still in no position to judge another's pain.....

If you're happy with your life, that's great.

[illflem]

41. Learn to read, that's why I said

"My bet is a large percentage of the folks taking these drugs could do without if they would just tolerate a little pain"
in my original post. By no means was it a blanket statement to cover everyone. If a person thinks the potential side effects of a drug are worth it more power to them.

[stickdog]

66. Then you're an idiot. Pain is a positive feedback loop in the nervous

system.

That's why if you run cold water on a minor burn wound quickly enough, pain never gets a chance to set in. However, if you instead run nearly scalding water over the same minor burn for a minute, you will have to endure a painful wound for days.

This has been proven time and time again by patients who are hooked up to a morphine pump. The patients who wait until the pain is blinding to press the button end up using about twice as much morphine as those who press at the first sign of pain.

[thecrow]

70. bravo for you

unfortunately spinal cord pain is not that easy to live with.

[byronm]

29. legalize mary j

and you won't have to worry about this now will you.. painkiller, muscle relaxent as well as overall stimulus controller. all in one magical herb..

funny the cheap solution is outlawed

[realvirginian]

39. Exactly

It seems like everyone I know is on some sort of medication.

[DemBones DemBones]

69. My guess is that you have little experience with real pain.

OK, that was my first guess. Now I read your statement that you were in Nam and spent 4 months in a VA hospital afterwards, still have pain.

So, you have experience with pain but possibly you have a higher pain threshold than some of us. Or at least a different way of feeling pain.

Whatever the deal is, calling other people "wimps" is hardly polite or helpful.

[jeffrey_X]

38. Or change your lifestyle...

My dad is on all kinds of meds. I talked with him at Christmas and he said he takes the meds so he can still eat what he wants to.

:bangsheadagainstwall:

People don't want to make a drastic(improved) change to their lifestyle...that is why they take meds. It is a bandaid cure and not really a cure at all.

[proudbluestater]

6. Now that the drug companies pay the FDA, they can't be trusted.

[Kolesar]

7. I have taken big doses of Naproxen for weeks on end for inflammation

On advice of physician(s), I take large doses ((4 x 220 mg)/day). The science is that reducing inflammation allows blood circulation, which allows repairs. I am not taking it to alleviate pain, per se.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

58. I'm curious

What are the advantages to Naproxen as opposed to aspirin? Did you try aspirin first? It's a great anti-coagulant.

[Kolesar]

82. Aspirin is also an anti-inflammatory drug

Aspirin has the advantage that it is actually cheaper than generic Naproxen. I have a hunch that naproxen is more effective as an anti-inflammatory drug. I vaguely recall that from a conversation with a physician. I know that naproxen can cure a headache in 10 minutes, which is why I keep some around.

I had stayed away from aspirin because of the acid-stomach problems. I never had the acid-stomach problems, I was just being cautious. I am aware of aspirin's blood-thinning properties, but I don't know why that is advantageous. I never looked into that either.

[Mend]

8. Big Pharma Knew

I remember six years ago being told by a competing drug rep that Vioxx caused heart problems.....of course now his product is also under the gun. I wouldn't trust any drug unless it has been out over ten years. The FDA is bought and paid for by the repukes and big pharma. BTW, the health store junk is even worse.

[blondeatlast]

20. Ten years is a good guideline?

Good info, I take several scrips.

What's the best way to find out when a RX was approved, any suggestions?

Thanks.

[Mend]

62. If it comes as a generic, it has been out quite a while

I remember when the FDA stopped thalidomide, the drug that causes severe limb abnormalites in fetuses. A woman doctor stuck to her guns and refused to approve it dispite pharm pressure and its wide use in Europe to stop the nausea of pregnancy.....those days when the FDA were on our side are gone.

[Sydnie]

23. I have been prescribed naproxen since 1982!

This drug has been around longer than 10 years. It became Aleve when it went non-prescription. It has been a wonderful way to manage chronic pain but damn, they could have told us just what the implications were and let us make informed choices at least.

It puts you in the postion of living in pain or dying without pain from a completely different cause that has nothing to do with why you were taking the med in the first place.

Ugh!

[Pathwalker]

45. Well, I took it for 20 years for neck and spinal injuries

after being hit by a delivery truck. I have bone spurs that rub away the lining of my spinal cord, and when they are at their worst (before they do surgery to remove them), my arms, neck, head, and torso can feel like I'm being electrocuted. My arms will spaz out, twitching, flailing, and locking every muscle affected. I've had 2 discs removed from my neck, have 2 more that are months away from needing removal, when my neck will be fused.

But, according to another poster above, I'm just a wuss. Yeah, and childbirth doesn't hurt either. :eyes:

[Forkboy]

10. Great...I just sucked down a couple

this ain't my week.

[R Hickey]

12. I think Valium causes heart problems too, at least in me it does.

I'm 56, don't smoke cigarettes, have no perscriptions, exercise, have no health insurance, but I'm still well off, financially.

My heart ain't perfect, but does only beat 60 times a minute, so it's sort of OK... but last week a friend gave me a couple of valiums (2-mils) for a seasonal depression.

A few days later my heart started doing all sorts of weird shit. It felt like my aorta was about to blow up. I thought I was a gonner for sure. But then I remembered that the last time I took val's the same thing happened. Someone ought to look into that stuff.

[infusionman]

17. You better get checked out.

Sounds like you are a heart attack waiting to happen

Vic, RN

[Ronnie]

25. My doctor tells me

valium is a depressant.

[HuckleB]

55. Yep.

It affects the brain similarly to alcohol.

[HuckleB]

54. Benzos strike the nervous system differently in everyone...

Certainly, it could affect your heart. It affects the brain similarly to alcohol (and they are, thusly, addictive), and many people have heart rate increases after binge drinking, so it would not be all that unusual.

Have you tried acupuncture, light therapy, or massage to treat your SAD? Just some suggestions.

[Ilsa]

13. Drugs are sometimes necessary for persons with chronic

conditions. But I think this also serves as a warning to the rest of us that there is a price to pay for relief. At least we now have the information so we can judge the trade-off: "Is the risk worth it?" we must ask ourselves.

[sam sarrha]

14. If aspirin were discovered today it wouldn't pass FDA testing as safe

[blondeatlast]

19. I'm on several prescription meds (insulin dependent diabetes, anemia,

heart arrythmia).

I have been very specific with my doctors--I WILL NO LONGER TAKE ANY MEDICATION APPROVED BY THE FDA AFTER 2000.

My PC physician, who was a huge Kerry supporter, knew precisely why I told her that.

[Magginkat]

21. What's a Patient to Think??

I think it's a good argument to question everything your doctor prescribes for you, especially the known side effects. It is surprising how many times the doctors don't know squat about side effects.

About 4 yrs ago, my doctor prescribed Celebrex for my arthritis. About fives minutes after taking the first pill, I started having a strange fluttering sensation in my chest. The next day and the next pill it got worse. I pulled out the info sheet that the pharmacist had stuck in the bag and there it was. These pill may cause heart palpations (sp?) I called my doctor who had never heard that but he changed my prescription immediately. The Pharmaceutical company knew about the problem and still kept that crap on the market.

Next came Vioxx which didn't seem to help a whole lot but I took it until it was pulled from the market. On the advice of the Pharmacist I switched to Naproxen (Aleve) only to hear that they were just as bad.

Prior to this Baycol, a cholesterol medication that I was on was recalled.

Ok people, I am back to taking aspirin! Guess what? The swelling in my hands is less than one half of what it was with Vioxx. The Vioxx was about $3 per pill. The aspirin is about $3.00 for a large bottle that will probably last a couple months.

[MADem]

37. Aspirin is a good drug

You have to take it with food, and the coated aspirin is easier on the stomach, but it does work. I try to avoid pain relievers, but if I need one, I head for the aspirin. And I only take ONE. I wait a while, and if I am still in the hurt locker, I take a second. A lot of times one will do the trick.

Heat and cold help too with those aches and pains. Heat in the morning, cold at night. A nice hot bath, or a hot water bottle...an ice pack (or a packet of frozen peas). These are turn of the (20th) century techniques, but they didn't kill my grandparents or great grandparents.

Massage therapy can help, too, but it ain't cheap, and often not covered by health insurance.

I prefer generic drugs over brand names, too. At least the generics have gotten a degree of testing simply by being around for a longer period of time and having their copyrights expire.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

59. AMEN to you aspirin users!

I've been posting above about aspirin.

There's one other thing that people would rather not do, which is of immense benefit to almost everyone, and that is stretching.

If people were taught how to stretch, how to do it during the day, how to keep their joints and bodies limber and supple, I daresay we'd have taken the first step in putting a lot of drug companies out of business.

Plus, it feels really, really good............... :)

[MADem]

77. GINGER AND TUMERIC

According to Andrew Weil, who was on Norville tonight, are also good anti-inflammatories, and are easy on the tummy. But you have to use them for a couple of months for them to really kick in.

And stretching does help, as does walking and a bit of weight bearing exercise, even if all the weight one bears is one's own!!!

[amazona]

64. i'm so glad aspirin works for you

It works for me as well. Thank heaven.

However, I know two people, one my father, who nearly died because of aspirin administered in a hospital setting. Aspirin cannot be tolerated by all people even if every care is taken.

I believe in informing people about their choices. I do NOT believe in taking pain medicine off the market and out of patient's hands. Some people cannot have any quality of life because of chronic pain. You were smart to read of possible side effects and get switched to another medicine other than Celebrex when you observed the side effect in question. But not all people react to a medicine the same way. Celebrex could be a lifesaver for some.

My mom's cholesterol levels were returned to normal by Baycol. She is already slim and eats right, so just telling her to buck up and eat right and she will have good cholesterol wasn't working. She was sorry to see Baycol go. Sometimes we just have to weigh risk.

[Wilber_Stool]

24. And to think

after a handful of people keeled over after taking over the counter medications containing Ephedra(sp) the FDA had them off the market in a couple of months.
Do 'ya think.............naaah.

[rocktivity]

47. Wait until the aftereffects of Vigara and its ilk start popping up.

Ephedra was meant for the obese people, not the merely overweight. Viagra was meant for the impotent, not those who want to be MORE potent!

:headbang:
rocknation

[jukes]

26. ...and those that Mother gives you

don't do anything at all.

[HuckleB]

27. No, you can't trust the FDA, but you can't trust the "science" media...

either. There's too much hype and not enough real information being presented when it comes to this issue and others regarding the FDA, and the bottom line is that both the FDA and the "science" media are harming the health of Americans by failing to do their jobs in good conscience.

[rocktivity]

30. But Aleve has been running commercials as an alternatvive to Vioxx!

:crazy:
rocknation

[slackmaster]

31. Codeine still works just fine

Back to basics!

[Mithras61]

32. Codiene does work fine for pain, but...

what about inflammation? You still have to use an anti-inflammatry drug to reduce swelling and the inhibition of movement it induces. If you mix codiene with other drugs (NSAIDs or not) you have all thr problems associated with both the anti-inflammatories, with codiene, and with the combination of the two!

As my mother pointed out a few years ago, QUALITY outweighs QUANTITY when it comes to stuff like RA, and having since developed RA myself, I can see why she thinks that.

[slackmaster]

33. I take a prescription NSAID for back problems and tennis elbow

I use Lodine, generically etodolac.

Bummer about getting RA. That really sucks. I was afraid that was happening to my elbow, but it turned out to be wear and tear from gardening when I got laid off my last job.

[Rainscents]

46. NSAID...

Did you ever tried to take "Glucossamine 1500mg/Chodroitin 1200mg/ MSM 25mg combo? This really work for joints and Tendon!!! It works very well for my back... I had 8 back surgeries. I use "Nature Made Triple Flex... You can get this from at Costco for $27.00. One bottle will last you about 3 months, you only take 2 per day. My ex-boyfriend took this for his knee ( he had 3 major knee surgeries ) and he got real relief!

With natural products, it take few weeks before you'll start to notice.

[slackmaster]

49. Thanks for the recommendation

I've been considering trying the Glucosamine/Chondroitin stuff.

[thecrow]

76. You need to take about 1200 mg of it a day (3 pills) x 2 months

to build it up in your system. Then you will start to feel relief.
After that point, take only 2 pills a day unless the pain starts and go back to 3.
My orthopedic surgeon recommended this to me because I have arthritis in my hands and back, and it really works. I also heard about it in my pain clinic.meditation class I used to go to.
The thing is, most people give up after a couple weeks.
It is a long term medication and the one thing that actually REPAIRS and maintains cartilege in the joints.

[Mithras61]

51. Re: Glucosamine & Chondroitin

Tried glucosamine with no results. Can't afford to risk taking chondroitin, since a huge percentage is made from shellfish & I'm severely allergic. FWIW, steroids also had no effect on my RA. I've had no significant success with methotrexate and limited success with Enbrel (I'm currently taking 2x the FDA approved dosage and not se4eing any improvement). At least I'm not allergic to IT. I think the rheumatologist said Remicade is what we try next.

The only things that "help" are Vioxx and Bextra. Celebrex was completely useless (almost worse than nothing). I tried the naproxen route, but the stomach bleeding at the dosage needed to control the pain was too much.

Maybe I'm a wuss, but I've been in pain for most of the last 6 years, and it gets fatiguing after a couple months (yes, months not years). If I can take something that controls the pain, lets me sleep and still have some ammount of mobility (limited though it might be), I'm going to use it. I'd like to arrest/reverse the damage of the RA as well, but I've not found anything that seems to help with that yet.

[Rainscents]

56. Shark Cartridge...

Have you try Shark Cartidge??? This is actualy my first choice, however, it is costly, but it would be well worth the money if you can aford it.

[LeftyMom]

78. Do you realize how bad an idea

consuming an apex predator is, both for you and the enviornment? Sharks have hig levels of mercury and other toxins (which is why pregnant women and children are advised not to eat shark) and removing an apex predator from an enviornment really damages the ecological balance.

There isn't any proof that shark cartilage does a thing anyhow.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

60. I had a run-in with RA almost twenty years ago

Horrible, just horrible, and I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

But, I had a very hip rheumatologist who told me about a study being done at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania by physician-researchers who were looking at the origins of RA. The traditional line has been that it's incurable, but it is manageable. This was about fifteen years ago, or so.

These fellows theorized that autoimmune disorders were due to bacterial infections that had never been fully cleared up. Even if one tiny piece of one bacterium remains in your body, the immune system will go to work and attack it - hence, diseases like RA.

So, I went into the study, and was put on a regimen of 500 mg. of Cipro twice a day for 90 days.

When I started, my sed rate was 93. I could barely move, couldn't work, couldn't even brush my teeth without help. Constant febrile feeling, and everything hurt, because everything was inflamed and agonizingly painful.

At the end of the 90 days, I was in perfect shape. My sed rate had dropped to 42, and I've never had any kind of serious problems again. It's been kind of miraculous.

See if your MD knows about this. I don't know what ever happened with the study. Maybe there's something there for you. I sure hope so.

[shawn703]

34. I'm tired of the advertisements for these medications on television

They are marketing to consumers who don't have the knowledge to make an informed decision. Of course the consumers can't buy the stuff themselves without a prescription (unless they're Rush Limbaugh), so they have to go doctor shopping to find the one that'll give them the prescription they want. And so our doctors are in the position of either giving us what we want or losing their patients to a doctor who will.

[genieroze]

35. Aleve had been linked to heart attacks

It should also be know that a severe allergic reaction can occur. I should know, I had one. Brought me to the ER with anaphylactic shock. This was weird because I took it once before with no problem.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/articles/8479-1.asp

They asked me what I took and I said Naproxen and they knew immediately that was it. They told me to keep Benadril in the house just in case I was allergic to anything else.

[The Judged]

36. How does speeding up the FDA process equate to concealing trials?

The original & correct problem was that the FDA took too long to get beneficial prescription drugs to the marketplace and did so without merit.

However, and in seemingly typical Republican style & substance, the FDA relaxed standards not ONLY that affect the speed which a pharmaceutical company brings their new prescription drugs to the marketplace, but ALSO the INTEGRITY that they employ & RESPONSIBILITY that they bear in presenting evidence that their drugs are safe.

Two prime examples are the pain killer drugs that they knew from drug trials were linked to higher incidents of heart attacks, and the anti-depressants that they knew from drug trials were linked to much higher than usual suicidal thoughts and actions.

How can the Republicans deny that under their control of the FDA that the integrity of drug companies has proved to be untrustworthy, and that the opportunity for drug companies to demonstrate their integrity was not even a consideration in the consciousness of the American public when the Republicans acted to speed up government approval and delivery of new and experimental prescription drugs to the marketplace?

AS USUAL THE AMERICAN PUBLIC'S POLITICAL SUPPORT WAS BAITED TO ADDRESS A REAL PROBLEM AND SWITCHED TO REDRESS A REPUBLICAN PET PEEVE VIA A POLICY NEITHER POPULARLY SUPPORTED OR HISTORICALLY WARRANTED.

Laissez-Faire economics trumps public safety and public health AGAIN!

What recourse does the American public have?

Soon lawsuits against these drug companies and their cohorts in government will either be capped or denied action and thereby eliminate any potential for businesses to be dissuaded from making irresponsible decisions that adversely affect the public's health and welfare.

[Rainscents]

42. Highway Robbery!!!

Pharmaceutical Company is "Highway Robbery!" They only cares about how much money they can make and they don't give a shit about how many people die from their profits! I learned my lesion 15 years ago when I was in hospital bleeding for 4 days and Doctor's didn't know what was causing my problems. I became my own doctor and took charge of my own health! I turn to natural way to cure my own problems and I am now free from being ill all the time.
I start eating organic foods, free range meat, fish from Alaska only, detox my body and take natural supplements! I had 8 back surgeries, however, because I am using natural supplements to help deal with pains and it work!!! I will NEVER use over the counter nor will I use prescription drugs again!!! I stop using all pharmaceutical products for 15 years!!!

Found out what cause my problems and ill... It was all from Antibiotic!!!! It's so sad that, our government allow pharmaceutical company to kill people slowly... what is wrong with this picture???

[Rainscents]

43. By the way...

I have pet Bunny... I only feed him organic foods and vegetables and fruits!!! I know this sounds weired, but I want him to stay healthy as long as he is alive!

One day as trial... I gave him none organic vegetable, guess what??? He would NOT eat the vegetable!!!!!!! If my bunny refuse to eat the none organic foods, why should I !!!

[walldude]

44. Well all I can say is it's a good thing

We aren't getting any of those dangerous untested drugs from Canada...

[d.l.Green]

53. Animal testing, huh? Hmmmm...

Food allergies are usually little more than pesticide allergies. Animals do know best, as do human babies- but after awhile, the body gives up fighting, and just goes with the flow, until things start cropping up later. Funny how doctors so freely prescribe these drugs when all that's needed is a little adjustment in the diet- but where there's money to be made....;-)

[amazona]

65. well when I start eating my crap for extra nutrients

That is when I will start taking nutritional advice from my bunny rabbit. :-)

Seriously, our bodies digest and use food very differently from rabbit species.

[realvirginian]

48. I don't know what to think, but...

I'm calling The Law Offices of James Sokolove.

[lojasmo]

52. I think I'm going to avoid ALL NSAIDs including Motrin/Advil/Ibuprofen N/T

[Sterling]

61. vaporize weed.

It's way better for you and helps with a lot of things. Vaporize, don't smoke.

[queenjane]

67. Clinical Trials have limitations

I've worked in drug r & d, in an academic setting, for 8+ years. What I've learned has really surprised me.

The first problem is that most drugs are tested almost exclusively on white males. Females of childbearing age are often excluded from drug trials because of the potential (and unknown) threat to fetuses, and the reluctance of Catholic hospitals (which serve as enrollment sites for many drug trials) to advocate birth control, which is required if potentially fertile women wish to enroll. Minority enrollment is also highly desirable, as we suspect that different genders/races/ethnic groups may metabolize drugs differently (this is a new field called pharmacokinetics), but always falls far short of goal.

The other problem is that clinical trials usually only last a few years. If the drug performs well in a limited population for a limited period of time, it's approved. Only then is the drug prescribed for the general population, and often as a maintenance drug (i.e., to be used into infinity for chronic conditions). This is when the serious problems begin, as no clinical trial can replicate this widespread and extended use. Unfortunately, follow-up is sporatic at best.

Those of us who make our livings in this field avoid drugs at all hazards.

[Deja Q]

68. Faith is merely the ability to take unproven trust in an unproven entity.

Hey, FAITH! Faith in the system! Anybody else notice that FAITH is a clear sign of INSANITY?

Faith is merely the ability to take unproven trust in an unproven entity.

Get more fucking real people in power and we'd end this fairytale nonsense once and for all.

Especially for those idiots who think that God did something just for them (helping them win a football game, getting their newly wedded hubby out of Iraq by him getting shot in the foot, and other unbalanced flibbledeeflop... :eyes: And, btw, all those examples are TRUE.) BTW: Using God's name for vanity is a sin. Not as bad as GREED (hey Ken Lay!), but it's a sin nonetheless.

[VegasWolf]

71. Not necessarily insanity, could simply be extreme stupidity. n/t

[spanone]

74. The FDA is in bed with the Pharma companies. Screw the foks for profit.

with the blessing of the bush* administration

[Kimber Scott]

79. Yes and that's why they keep saying it's too "dangerous" to import

cheaper drugs from Canada. The whole industry is a crock.

[VegasWolf]

75. What else to expect form a 30 second commercial jingle filled with

happy, smiling people? How could they NOT sell their
products this way? "Ask your doctor about the Purple pill!"

[stackhouse]

80. whats wrong with Celebrex???

ok some one catch me up to speed...

my mother has been taking Celebrex for years. so whats wrong with it??or at lest what do i need to know about Celebrex thats freeking out everyone out???????

[The Flaming Red Head]

83. I’ve had to take two aleve a day now for 5 years to stay off narcotics

I have chronic neck and back pain with ruptured, bulging, and herniated disk on every level and a previous ACF, and I wonder why I didn’t just get Oxycontin or something like it. I’d have been better off, I’ve already been told that I’ve had a heart attack. No treatment, though. I have no health insurance and I tend to depend on over the counter remedies. I have to take something because I have to work to survive.