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Kennedy Pledges to Defeat School Voucher Bill

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demdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 09:24 AM
Original message
Kennedy Pledges to Defeat School Voucher Bill
WASHINGTON (AP) - Sen. Edward Kennedy plans to do everything he can to defeat the proposed use of school vouchers in the nation's capital, his spokesman said Thursday.
Voucher supporters are trying to change his mind and will run a television ad in his home state of Massachusetts next week questioning the Democrat's commitment to civil rights.



http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAYG1Z9IKD.html
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Brucey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hope he succeeds, but
Ted just doesn't command much power anymore. The repugnants are in control, and too many acquiesing Dems.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. WTF
:wtf: Bankrupting public schools is good for civil rights? Lying bastards.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Sure they're lying bastards. Who's going to stop them?
Let's just say I have a new "appreciation" for the Good Germans of 1933-1936.

We are Them. They are Us.
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. You go Teddy!
Keep fighting the good fight, and don't let 'em bring you down!

david

Kucinich 2004

Arianna YES
Recall No
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Go
Go very far away from the district on this one. I love it. Private school for the rich and famous. D.C. schools (or lack thereof) for the poor.

No thanks.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. I hope all teachers will help him
you should all realize thay your jobs are a stake.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. People Need to Realize One Thing
Voucker plans are nothing more than an attempt to "punish" teachers and the teacher's unions for supporting Democrats.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Wrong
Vouchers are a last-ditch effort for some parents to educate their children. Face it, urban school districts have failed and all you offer is politics.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I Beg To Differ
Vouchers will never solve the problem, because there aren't enough spaces available in private schools. And new private schools won't pop up overnight to take up the slack. Face it - the only way to solve the problems with public schools is to FIX THE SCHOOLS, not take funds away from them.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Short term and long term
Long term, I agree we must fix the schools, but short term there are no other viable options in many cases. Private schools can spring up (and will do so if there is a need) at the drop of a hat. Public schools are slow to change, slow to fix and slow to acknowledge the problem.

Take a look at how many years D.C. has been wrestling with the problems. What are poor parents supposed to do? Wait while politicians muck up the lives of another generation? Or take action now?

As an aside, the current voucher plan for D.C. takes no money away and, in fact, provides additional funding.
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Can the vouchers really give a truly poor family
enough extra money to be able to afford to send their kids to private schools? I don't buy it.

IMO Vouchers are the first step in a long term plan to privatize education completely.

david
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I Would WANT a Private School That "Springs Up"
The papers have been filled with stories about what dismal failures the Edison schools have been in communities all over the country, for example. Vouchers don't fix the problem.
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apnu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. there is a short term solution....
more spending on education!!!! give teachers a raise, and give people a reason to choose teaching as a profession.
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Agreed!
I'm not a proponent of private schools at all. I say tax them, and put the revenues into the local public schools.

$87B could have given $1,000,000 to 87,000 public schools.

I think we need a real "education president" who will start from the ground up. Making portables illegal and giving every public school in the US a complete rennovation.

Let's start by making the schools (buildings) glorious places to be, and then work from there. They should be the cultural centers of a city. It would show where our priorities really stand.

My wife is a teacher in an underperforming high school in a minority neighborhood, and you cannot believe the amount of sh*t she has to go through way, way, way above and beyond actual teaching. It doesn't help morale any that her school is still painted in 60's blues and oranges with an awful cinder block construction and portables.

grumble grumble grumble

david
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. when a voucher is worth $2000
... and tuition, books, uniforms are $8000 ... and you commit to sending your kids there ... and you're a single mother making $7/hr ... where ya' gonna get the rest of the money to pay the tuition ?

it's a scam. read the fine print.



:hippie:
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Arguments Against Vouchers
Edited on Fri Sep-12-03 02:23 PM by Angel_O_Peace
By Alex Molnar
Private school vouchers represent such a danger to the separation of church and state because not all of the forces arrayed in support of vouchers are those that have religion or the attempt to include religious schools as their agenda. The people promoting private school vouchers represent a broad coalition, often times of somewhat conflicting agendas, that come together on this particular issue.

more...
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/nov96/molnar.html


"State legislature provides that school vouchers are to support the poor students in private sector schooling. They have the freedom to choose the program that reflects their education future. However, in reality, school vouchers account for sectarian education which dominates private schooling. Poverty stricken students comprise of only 20 percent of the private schools. After the decision of Brown vs. Board of Education, school vouchers merely became a means for white students to choose a different schooling system for themselves. Hence, school vouchers use to eradicate discrimination proved unsuccessful ."

http://www.academon.com/lib/paper/28048.html

Alex Molnar (Bio)
http://www.asu.edu/educ/epsl/Bio/molnar-bio.htm


Florida Judge Rules Against School Vouchers
By Melanie Hunter
CNSNews.com Deputy Managing Editor
August 05, 2002
(CNSNews.com) - Nearly one month after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of school vouchers and weeks before the start of the school year, a Florida judge ruled Monday the state's school voucher law is unconstitutional.

<snip>
"While this court recognizes and empathizes with the ... purpose of this legislation - to enhance the educational opportunity of children caught in the snare of substandard schools - such a purpose does not grant this court authority to abandon the clear mandate of the people as enunciated in the constitution," wrote Davey, who plans for the ruling to go into effect this school year.

"The Florida court's decision shows that the battle over vouchers is far from over," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, a religious liberty watchdog group. "I expect to see similar decisions against vouchers in state courts around the country."

Voucher programs are already underway in Cleveland, Ohio and Milwaukee, Wisc.

"The Bush brothers' plan to funnel funds to religious schools just ran into a major roadblock," Lynn added.

more...
http://www.aclj.org/news/education/020806_vouchers.asp

The Case Against School Vouchers by Ken Goldstein
<snip>
The voucher system basically works like this: The dollars your state would have spent to educate your child in a public school become portable. If your state spends $2,500 per year per student, you will receive a $2,500 voucher for each school age child. You may choose to turn in your voucher and keep your child in a public school, or you may use it towards the cost of a private school, which may or may not choose to charge you any amount in addition to the voucher.

more...
http://www.the13thstory.com/krg/Politics/vouchers.html


The Case Against School Vouchers
Tom Peters

Introduction

In the last two decades religious conservatives have spent vast amounts of time and energy criticizing the public school system. Their litany of problems should be familiar to anyone that has read the conservative press: the schools don't do a good job of educating; they are "religion free zones;" they are indoctrinating children with the tenets of "secular humanism;" they are unsafe; they are hostile to family values; etc.

<snip>
Are school vouchers constitutional?

In a word, no, at least when they are used to pay for sectarian education. Vouchers, since they involve direct government funding of private school tuition, violate the Constitution whenever the private school involved uses this money to pay for religious instruction.

Since the passage of the 14th Amendment the Supreme court has gradually made most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the states. The states, in other words, must now obey the guarantees embodied in the Bill of Rights, including the Constitutional prohibition against establishment of religion. This article explains the history of Supreme Court decisions relevant to school vouchers since the passage of the 14th Amendment.

more...
http://www.bigissueground.com/atheistground/peters-againstvouchers.shtml

on edit: typos
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Vocabulary word of the day: "fungible"
Learn it. Love it. It's a key to understanding the trojan horse of vouchers.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Definition
Main Entry: 2fungible
Function: adjective
Etymology: New Latin fungibilis, from Latin fungi to perform -- more at FUNCTION
Date: 1818
1 : being of such a nature that one part or quantity may be replaced by another equal part or quantity in the satisfaction of an obligation <oil, wheat, and lumber are fungible commodities>
2 : INTERCHANGEABLE
- fun·gi·bil·i·ty /"f&n-j&-'bi-l&-tE/ noun

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
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