Russia Joins Iran in Fighting UFO’s

[Minstrel Boy]

Russia Joins Iran in Fighting UFO’s

30.12.2004
MosNews

Russia and Iran have agreed to a joint program studying the UFO phenomenon after a series of sightings of unidentified flying objects.

...

This comes in the wake of a skywatching mania that struck Iran amid state-media reports of sightings of flying objects near Iran’s nuclear installations.

The Resalat news agency reported “shining objects” in the sky near Natanz, where Iran’s uranium-enrichment plant is situated. One of those objects is said to have exploded, prompting “panic in the region”.

...

“Flights of unknown objects in the country’s airspace have increased in recent weeks... they have been seen over Bushehr and Isfahan provinces,” the Resalat daily reported. Nuclear facilities are located in both provinces.

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/12/30/ufo.shtml

Story from Dec 25:

Iran to shoot down ‘flying objects’ near nuclear facilities
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1098851

[Ian David]

1. That's all we need

The last thing we need is for Russia to start shooting at American and/or Israeli aircraft.

This could very well be an open door to WWIII

[SweetLeftFoot]

2. Then

American and/or Israeli aircraft should respect the sovereign airspace of Iran and Russia.

[theycanbiteme]

18. Give that poster a cigar!

[Tinoire]

80. Welcome to DU SweetLeftFoot!

:toast:

[SweetLeftFoot]

95. Cheers!

[DS1]

3. We can win a Nuclear War

/Reagan
/Bush's Mentor

[Bandit]

5. Nobody wins a nuclear war

:shrug:

[DS1]

6. see post

[Bono71]

11. See: War Games

[DS1]

12. ffs

I'm quoting Reagan :eyes:

I GET that nuclear war isn't winnable

[GHOSTDANCER]

45. The only way to win........................is not to play.

<>

[GHOSTDANCER]

43. The "UFOs" are probably US spyplanes.. illegally entering Iran's Airspace.

And should be allowed to be shot down under law. You don't see too many foreign aircraft entering out Airspace do you? I wonder why?

[BadGimp]

63. Jebus is comming - I just know it!

woo hoo

[Massacure]

64. Or alien spacecraft.

:P

[Tinoire]

81. I think WWIII started a little while ago...

IMO, it started with Gulf War I and hasn't let up since.

[Occulus]

4. So are we about to find out

whether these are our birds, or Somebody Else's.

Personally, with all the black projects we invest in and the massive, almost gluttonous budget DARPA has, I would be completely unsurprised if there's been some major advance in propulsion technology- something that allows an aircraft to be nearly any shape, with few or no surfaces that generate lift (because it generates lift in another way).

It would be most amusing to discover that all the UFO "nuts" out there were actually half correct- that they really are seeing fun and interesting things in the skies, but all of them belong to us. :)

on edit: Someone above mentioned WW3. I doubt that would happen if these are truly "classic UFO" type craft with experimental/exotic propulsion systems. We tend to keep even the existence of such things very hush-hush, at least until it is impossible to keep quiet any longer. The most our government would be likely to do is issue and embarassed press release that all the so-called UFOs were actually experimental craft based on new propulsion technology or something.

Now suppose all the UFO "nuts" are dead-on correct, and these are craft from other worlds (not bloody likely, but just imagine). Under such a scenario, shooting them down would be a colossally stupid thing to do.

[Lorien]

26. UFO "nuts"; like nearly every US president

in the past 50 years, and every astronaut (do a Google search).

I've seen the things a few times, with other witnesses, and none of us had been smoking or drinking. One long silver cigar shaped craft buzzed our neighborhood when I was a kid in the early 70s. The military sent three aircraft after it, but the damn thing just moved a half mile away in any direction in a mere eye blink whenever the F15s got remotely close to it. Then it sat there in the sky, completely motionless. The whole neighborhood watched this take place, and there was nothing about it on the evening news later that evening. Eventually, the craft just shot straight up and out of sight. If it was one of ours, then I'm wondering why I can't take a 30 minute flight from New York to Paris today!

[Old Mouse]

28. I'm always amazed

by the overwhelming need people have to believe UFOs do not exist.

[Lorien]

35. I think that most people hold onto the cherished belief

that we-humankind- have pretty much got the world figured out. There's no more great discoveries to be made, everything can be explained because we know everything there is to know. Hell, the US patent office was closed down in the late 1800s for a time, because it had been determined that all the great inventions had already been invented! No one then could have imagined that man would walk on the moon less than a century later, let alone laptop computers.

I don't have any explanation for UFOs (notice that I didn't say "spaceship" or "experimental aircraft"). I accept that they exist because I've seen them, and so have several friends, neighbors and relatives, but beyond that it's all just speculation. I don't know it all-nobody does. There's still a lot about the universe and this world that we have yet to discover and understand, and that will probably always be the case. Life without mysteries seems rather dull, doesn't it?

[IA_Seth]

38. Agreed!

The Romans believed they had the world figured out, as did the British, and now we do. It is part of the vanity and conceit of men to just assume that we always have the world figured out.

What is amazing to me is that as more and more things are discovered in regards to science/nature/technology people still hold on to the fact that we are on the cutting edge and we know it all.

Ugh.

[SweetLeftFoot]

96. At what point

did the British think they had worked things out? For all their faults, the Brits great success was their willingness to innovate and try new things - hence the Industrial Revolution, darwin and evolution etc etc.

[genieroze]

47. UFO means Unidentified Flying Object it doesn't mean little green

men from Mars. If I seen something in the sky that I couldn't identify doesn't mean it's not identifiable. It just means I don't know what the heck it is. Do I think our government has aircraft they are keeping secret from the rest of us, yes I do. Do I think the same of other countries, yes I do. Do I believe in other life in the universe, yes I do. Do I think they are visiting our planet, I don't know. Many highly not high intelligent people believe in life outside of earth.

[DivinBreuvage]

87. Brilliant post, Lorien

I have long believed that some people who pride themselves on their "rationality" are really seeking a psychological security blanket: they need to believe in a safe, secure world where nothing unexplainable or unknown can occur because science has already figured out everything that really matters. When anything comes along to trouble their belief it must be rejected out of hand; even science itself can be thrown out when it begins to skirt uncomfortably close to the limits of accepted "truth".

I have noticed that such people tend to become shrill and perhaps a bit nasty when they sense a threat to their cherished worldview -- just like some Biblical literalists when confronted with the evidence of biology or geology. In fact I think that many of the attacks we see against people who post on religion, astrology, and other topics such as bigfoot, UFOs, contrails, etc. on this forum, are really a case of psychological projection: the attackers sneer at others for being simpleminded, gullible, or childish because deep down they recognize that fallacy in themselves, even though they clothe it in a labcoat rather than white robes.

[Minstrel Boy]

39. In Wonderland, UFOs are imaginary

Richard Dolan, from "The Real Wonderland":

Another person I know – someone who is a fairly well-known celebrity in Western New York State – had a UFO sighting in May of 1980, just outside Syracuse. It was late afternoon on a sunny day. Driving with a friend, in the small town of Manlius, this person asked his companion if she could see the large object outside her window.

She answered, "I’m really glad you mentioned that, because I didn’t know what I was going to tell you."

According to this person (who also never reported his sighting to any organization), he and his companion got out of the car and watched what he described as "right out of a Steven Spielberg movie." It was a classic flying saucer. Silent, hovering over trees, "as large as a football field." It has rotating lights around the perimeter – red, green, and yellow, as he recalled. The object wasn’t doing anything – merely hovering silently and impossibly in broad daylight.

Not surprisingly, my acquaintance was rather startled. "If we’re seeing this thing," he decided, "other people have to be seeing it as well."

Sure enough, a light commercial aircraft flew by, which he maintains had to have seen the object. At around the same time, a news traffic helicopter – "Eye in the Sky," as he described it – was in the vicinity. He assumed at the time that the crew on board had video equipment and was filming the amazing object.

Then, about a minute or two later, two fighter planes, probably F-15s, buzzed by this object. At this point, it took off "like a bullet." In the time it takes to snap your fingers, it was gone. No sound at all.

...

The kicker of the story is this. He was sure that this would be on the T.V. news that night, and stayed up till 11 p.m., specifically to hear the much anticipated report about a massive UFO seen just outside Syracuse. But not only was there no story on any UFO, but it seemed to him as though the talking heads in Wonderland went out of their way to downplay anything odd at all. The news announcer actually said, "another boring day in Syracuse."

http://keyholepublishing.com/The_Real_Wonderland.htm

[Lorien]

48. Better than what a local paper had to say

about a mass sighting in central Ohio.

My best friend's parents and grandmother were getting some things out of the car one night when Grandma said "well, what on earth...???!" She pointed to the sky and they looked up to see a huge circle made of glowing orbs overhead;it looked like they were very high up, and the circle may have been a mile or more across. One bright light sat in the middle of the circle. A new light broke from the center light, then flew to each light in the circle separately. It circled each light, and when it was finished, all the lights converged on the central light, then burst outward in every direction and disappeared (flew away at a high rate of speed).

Nothing on the news that night, but the next day there was a story buried in the local paper with the headline "Clintonville residents treated to rare locust mating display". Yeah, right. :eyes:

The funny thing was, when my good friend-a liberal, open minded woman-overheard her mother and I talking about UFOs one day (both of us had obviously accepted their existence) she became distraught. We asked her why she was upset with our conversation, and she said "well, if there are such things, then where does God fit in?" At first, I was surprised to find that my friend had adopted her husband's faith, but secondly; how does one negate the existence of the other? I said "well; there's a lot of universe out there. If God exists, why wouldn't He have created more than one planet"? That didn't seem to help; she was still upset. Maybe such emotions are part of the reason UFOs are such a taboo subject for news reports?

[Minstrel Boy]

50. it's a religious taboo

Even though we don't know what they are, or where they're from, they seem to violate "God's law" for many people.

Many people have a pretty small God.

[Old Mouse]

52. It does show an over-anthropomorphization

of both God and UFOs.

[gulfcoastliberal]

92. A good primer is reading up on the Robertson Panel &

JANAP 146.

http://www.cufos.org/IUR_article3.html

[yella_dawg]

70. Okay, please answer one question for me.

I believe there is intelligent life "out there". Personally, it's unthinkable that we're the only technological race in the galaxy. But why would anyone want to come here? Seriously. What would attract otherwise intelligent and advanced creatures to this shithole?


Thanks

[Old Mouse]

72. ever go to a zoo?

Seriously, it is a egocentric leap we all take to conclude these events are piloted craft.

[DivinBreuvage]

88. For the same reason scientists on earth would jump all over any planet

(if they could get there, of course) that had even the most rudimentary life forms on it. You know as well as I do that even a blighted chunk of rock that could cough up nothing higher than a Dennis Miller would be crawling with earthlings screaming to study it.

And, give us credit -- despite the fact that the planet as a whole would be much better off if the entire human race were annihilated, we are still a pretty sophisticated evolutionary development compared to our cohabitants. I'm not putting them down, I'm just saying the human brain does count for something.

Or, perhaps the aliens (if there are any) are scouting us as a precursor to killing us all and taking the planet for themselves. There's no reason to believe that otherwise intelligent and advanced creatures would be any better than we are. The idea that intellectual capacity equals compassion, sensitivity, or any other touchy-feely quality is pure HUMBUG.

[nashville_brook]

30. my husband has a very similar story

70s... cigar shaped craft hovering silently over the neighborhood in daylight. it was huge like a football field or more. he says he didn't see it fly away because he fell off his bike - cute!

[amandabeech]

31. My Dad saw them repeatedly, as did other members of our

community. Dad went to the state police and reported the incidents, and was told that he wasn't the only one. Other sober, respectable citizens had also seen them.

The UFOs seen were disks about a yard across and raised on the top and bottom. They would arrive in the evening at our house and bob and weave about as though they were playing. They seemed to come from a wooded, wetland-type area at the base of the hill on which our house was located. This was back in the '80s.

I truly wish that our government would level with us about this.

[InvisibleBallots]

34. those disks

were US military experimental aircraft, at least, if you believe my friend who was marginally involved in the project.

[amandabeech]

71. Well, that's interesting.

But I don't know what they were doing testing them out in the countryside in western lower Michigan in front of someone's house.

There are no defense facilities for 150 miles as the crow flies, but there sure are more remote locations in the national forests in the Upper Penninsula!

[InvisibleBallots]

94. well, maybe not

He said that "flying disks" were tested in the 1970s as recon drones - probably the predecessors to what we have today. Whether that's what you saw, I don't really know? :shrug:

[reprobate]

37. First, let them level with us about 9/11.

[Occulus]

42. oh, no, I believe you, don't get the wrong impression

I put it in quotes because that's what other people often say. I've never seen anything in the skies that I couldn't explain. That doesn't mean there's nothing at all up there :)

[Occulus]

44. I know. It's frustrating.

I can't imagine why such would be kept from the public. Use oil for as long as possible to get as much money in their hands as we can- so we can then switch to vehicles using this new technology by buying them from the former oil companies?

One conspiracy's as good as another, I suppose... ;)

[Lorien]

51. The government HAS tried to develop "flying saucers"

but all the films I've seen of their experiments were pretty laughable (those are only the films they've released, of course).

I've seen these things a few times, and they always fly the same way; hover dead still and silently, then take off at some incredible rate of speed, stop, hover, zip...one thing I've always wondered about though: there's no sonic boom! Anyone here have a theory on that?

[Minstrel Boy]

60. the lack of sonic boom

I think that can be accounted for by gravity distortion. It would also account for why the things, and whatever occupants they may carry, aren't ripped apart by the G-forces.

Reading The Hunt for Zero Point and UFOs and the National Security State revolutionized my thinking on this subject.

[Lorien]

61. The G-forces

glad you brought that up. I was always wondering how whatever was inside those things (if something living was inside them) managed to survive without serious whiplash injuries, lol!

I assume you've seen them too? Or have you just read up on the topic?(I've never read any of those books; seeing a few seemed like enough for me).

[Minstrel Boy]

65. Never seen any myself.

It's all just book learnin' to me. :)

[Lorien]

67. So what's your take on the phenomenon

given that you haven't seen any yourself? I was an "unbeliever", even after two sightings (the third one convinced me, and I don't spend much time outside at night, so I don't know why I've been so damn "lucky").

[Minstrel Boy]

75. Here's my High Weirdness best guess:

it's extra-dimensional, not extraterrestrial.

In Nick Cook's The Hunt for Zero Point he tells of SS General Hans Kammler, who disappeared at the end of the war (presumably swept up by Project Paperclip), along with his above-top-secret work on something called "The Bell." Cook's source tells him its purpose was to enerate a torsion field; to actually bend space-time. The SS, it is suggested, was experimenting with a transdimensional portal at the same time Allied aircraft were encountering "foo fighters."

I find it intriguing that, at the same time in the Western US, rocket scientist and accolyte of Aleister Crowley, Jack Parsons (the true father of the space program, according to Werner von Braun), was conducting metaphysical experiments called "The Babalon Working" with L Ron Hubbard, in order to open a dimensional portal and "change the course of history." (Curiously, Crowley drew a sketch of a transdimensional being he called "LAM" he had encountered. Though it was decades before the depiction of "greys," the similarity is striking.)

Even more compelling, following the war, it was to the proving grounds of the western states that the extremely sensitive German technologies were removed; precisely where Parsons was using occult methods to accomplish, arguably, the intended purpose of Kammler's "Bell." And this is the time and place which saw the explosion of the modern UFO phenomena.

So I wonder, if there's an occultic aspect to it all, and also to the founding of the National Security State.

[seemslikeadream]

76. The Sylphs - foo fighters

Trevor James Constable, wrote about the US Air Force sending out Foo-Fighters during the Second World War to photograph and possibly shoot down the wing enveloping lights which were spooking their bomber crews. The German airmen were seeing similar phenomena and they named them gremlins. These gremlins were also known to cause mechanical problems in aircraft. Constable does not cite the bombing runs during which the Foo-gremlins caused problems but knowing Sylphs it was probably during the fire-bombings of Dresden and other cities where innocent civilians were killed. The Sylphs are advanced consciousnesses and they would have deemed such murder as entirely evil. The Luftwaffe may have seen gremlins during their bombings of London, Stalingrad and Leningrad where many people were killed.

Shad who personally witnessed the atomic war of 2024 BC and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 would harrass B-52 pilots and crews in such a way to let them know that what they are doing with atomic weaponry was stupid. Shad would activate or shut down non-essential systems. Also he would find fatal flaws in the systems which could cause crashes and point out where the problems were while the plane was still on the ground. Shad may have prevented the crashes of many atomic bomb carrying aircraft, "broken-arrows". These Sylphs were a pest to the pilots and ground crews and in many ways prevented the USAF from carrying out their missions. So the Air Force developed ways of detecting and repelling Sylphs.

Infrared photography showed the presence of Sylphs but it took time to develop the film. Royal Rife and Ruth B. Drown instruments could instantly detect Sylphs. Microwave and radio frequencies were discovered which repelled Sylphs. From a Sylph's prespective these "sounds" are like fingernails scraping across a chalkboard, irritating. Radar was developed which detected and repelled Sylphs. The frequencies used in dopplar-weather radar irritate Sylphs. Constable placing one of his infrared photos of a Sylph on the metal plate of a Ruth B. Drown diagnostic machine was able to determine that calcium was a major component of the third dimensional portion of the airy body. He later determined that the calcium was in an air gel web or mesh. As the air gel is less than one percent of the Sylph, the Sylphs were able to adapt and continue their bothersome behaviour against the nuclear armed nations of the world.

The USAF is made up of military types who think in friend or foe, them or us scenerios. The Sylphs are working against the Air Force and therefore are enemies, so the USAF is going to find their weaknesses and neutralize them. In truth Sylphs are coordinating a large part of the world's ecology and to neutalize (kill) Sylphs would destroy life on Earth. It is the military thought process which is the real enemy. The Sylphs have diverted weather fronts to help aircraft and people on the ground. They have done everything possible to prevent nuclear war. Some pilots who carry good conscious awareness were psychically warned away from deadly situations. Destructive wind and rain happens but if the large weather fronts from the tropics were shutdown the temperate climates worldwide would turn into deserts. Now the USAF and others want to take over the job of running the world's weather. They do not have a friggin idea about what drives weather. The Air Force may be trying to kill all Sylphs in order to take the responsibility to make weather for their own purposes. It would be just another plan to depopulate the world wholesale.

The GWEN , ELF and HAARP arrays were first developed as ways to destroy Sylphs, the enemy of the USAF. After fifty years Sylphs still own the skies. There is a military adage that whoever owns the skies has the superior tactical advantage and will eventually win the war on the ground (should it be decided that the ground war must cease). As Wilhelm Reich discovered deadly orgone accumulates over cities and wherever man applies unbalanced magnetic and electromagnetic fields. The basic problem creating deadly orgone is the conflict between men and women. Sylphs are constantly using wind, rain, lightning, thunder and fire to breakup concentrations of static or deadly orgone.
http://educate-yourself.org/zsl/zslusafversuswingmakers17jul02.shtml

[Baclava]

57. I've had my sighting too

On a clear, dark night. Cone-shaped light coming straight down from a noiseless hovering object with a circle of blue lights rotating around the top. It blotted out a disc-shaped portion of stars in the background. No noise - just humming...then the light shut off and it took off. I sent the report off to MUFON.

I thought about signaling it with my little flashlight to see what would happen...hmmmmmmmm probably good I didn't.....

[jayfish]

59. I Have Had Two...

truly unexplainable UFO experiences. The one that was strangest went something like this.

It was an early-spring night and I had just bought a new pair of binoculars. I took them outside, to check-out the moon, when I noticed a slow, silently moving object in the sky at what appeared to be 1500-2000ft. The object was visible because of it's four lights. Looking through the binoculars revealed only what I can describe as something similar to the + shaped thumb-pad on an old Nintendo controller with the four lights at each point. I thought that was pretty cool but I wasn't going to wright home about it. When I took the binos down though I was somewhat startled to see that there were rows and rows of these things from horizon to horizon. All moving slowly, silently and in unison. It was pretty freaky.

Jay

[Lorien]

66. That is pretty freaky

and what's really giving me the creeps is that I've had several dreams about the same thing; rows and rows of odd craft, stretching from horizon to horizon, moving silently and at the same rate of speed (not too fast). I just chalked it up to bad dreams inspired by the few odd sightings that I've had, but your story has really given me a shiver!

[GHOSTDANCER]

46. I Couldn't resist....

<>

[InvisibleBallots]

7. oh, this is going to get fun

So when Israel attacks nuclear sites in Iraq, the Russian will help shoot down Israeli planes, which will get a reaction from the US, which might very well bring China out ... fun fun fun till daddy takes the nukes away!

[Ian David]

8. Not a prime tourist destination

I can't imagine aliens would come millions of miles to tour Iran's nuclear facilities from the air.

America and Israel, on the other hand, have a vested interest in what goes on down there.

As for respecting their sovereign airspace, I think these incursions are necessary. We need to know what is going on there, and they pose a legitimate threat.

HOWEVER...

If Bush had done his job in the first place, there would not be any Iranian nuclear reactors to worry about.

[FlavaKreemSnak]

15. You know what? America and Israel are not the boss of earth

People in other countries worry about the nuclear weapons Israel and the USA have. Iran has the same right as America to have whatever weapons it wants. IMHO it would be better if NOBODY had nuclear weapons. But the policy that only America gets to say who can have them is just stupid.

[DoYouEverWonder]

36. That would be a good idea

There are much better ways for everyone to spend their money, then figuring out new and better ways to destroy things. Imagine if we used even half of that money on helping people? What a concept. We wouldn't have to worry so much about terrorism if we did.

[SweetLeftFoot]

97. Incursions

When the Israelis open up their vast stock of nukes, biological and chemical weapons, then we can think about doing the same to Iran.

Israel and apartheid South Africa worked together on biological weapons that would target only certain ethnic groups. South Africa ceased such activities after democracy was restored.

Israel never did. Your tax dollars at work my American friends.

[Javaman]

9. "Oops, what do you know, that UFO we shot down was an F18, darm"

[blackhorse]

10. This may be

... Russia and Iran giving the U.S. an oblique warning that the "radar contact chase game" is about to become deadly serious.

Cheers

BH

[Supersedeas]

16. Exactly...more pretzels for Prince George--clap/clap

[peacetalksforall]

13. India is getting visited. Will they join Russia and Iran?

Maybe we're about to learn something about faster than light technology. :o)

[theycanbiteme]

20. Would not doubt it

and maybe even Brasil...

[nashville_brook]

32. hmmm, wonder why they don't visit US?

[CabalPowered]

14. Disclosure Project

While I was in college, the City of Eugene paid David Greer to come speak. He does have some very interesting things to say. But what is more interesting is the testimony he's gathered from retired military commanders. I can't recall all the names and ranks but several of them spoke about encounters during the 70's. According to these folks, our ICBM farms were routinely visited by Greys.

http://disclosureproject.com/

[RollergirlVT]

17. Isn't there an established link between....

UFO activity and Nuclear activity (of the warhead kind)? Coincidentally, the two often occur together. If that were the case... then Iran IS building nuclear weapons.

[CabalPowered]

22. Did a quick google

"ufo nuclear reactor" produces 12,800 results. If it is ET, most likely looking at all nuclear technologies.

This site appears to be a good round-up of UFO/nuclear experiences. Also states that UFOs were visiting Iran in the 60's..

http://www.michiganufos.com/nuclearfacilityufos.html

[peacetalksforall]

23. Were they building nuclear weapons in the time of the Aztecs?

[seemslikeadream]

25. or Christ?

[Lorien]

27. Or 12th century France?

10th century Tibet?


How about 15th century Italy?

[InvisibleBallots]

40. wow!

supercool, neat site

[seemslikeadream]

41. Thanks InvisibleBallots, I forgot the link

http://www.ufoartwork.com/


This is an artistic reproduction of a relief found in a labyrinth on the island Jotuo in the Toengt'ing lake. An expedition took place in 1957 (two years before an earthquake in that region). The expedition was led by professor Tsj'i Pen-Lai. They found various reliefs showing "humans" in strange clothes which looked like astronaut suits (hose like objects attached to the clothes). They also found a painting which apparently resembled the solar system. The third and fourth circle (planet) were connected with a line. Also there were ten planets (excluding the sun as planet). This connects easily to the theories about Nibiru, planet X, etc

:hi:

[InvisibleBallots]

90. I have heard about this sort of thing

I have heard about old artwork containing pics of UFOs and aliens, but the only ones I ever actually saw were not convincing, so I pretty much wrote the whole thing off - but this? Damn.

[emad]

19. Good counter-intelligence story. Every time I see one of these

- especially if in relation to Putin, or JP2 who is "building his UFO observatory", etc - I smell security/intelligence cover up material for horrible Cold War secrets leaking into the public domain.

HOWEVER, I also understand that private US interests have developed advanced supersonic flight mechanisms way ahead of anything NASA has ever come up with, to the eternal shame of all those who have pioneered official US space programmes.



HolyBalls!

[seemslikeadream]

21. Iran starstruck by UFO phenomenon

Last Updated: Friday, 30 April, 2004, 07:16 GMT 08:16 UK

UFO fever is gripping Iran after dozens of Unidentified Flying Object sightings in the last few days.
State television has shown pictures of a sparkling white disc which it says was filmed over Tehran on Tuesday.

Other UFOs have been spotted in several northern and north-western cities moving quickly through the atmosphere emitting brightly coloured rays.

Scientists say the sightings are a result of natural phenomena, but many people say they are spy planes.

A reporter for the Irna state news agency observed a UFO last week for 90 minutes in the northern city of Bilesavar and was able to film it, according to a report in the newspaper Hambastegi.
The UFO was spherical and had two arms, the paper said.

more
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3671271.stm

UFO fever grips Iran

Flying saucer fever has gripped Iran after dozens of sightings in the last few days. Fanciful cartoons of alien spacecraft have adorned the front pages.

State television on Wednesday showed a sparkling white disc it said was filmed over Tehran on Tuesday night.

More colorful unidentified flying objects have been spotted beaming out green, red, blue and purple rays over the northern cities of Tabriz and Ardebil and in the Caspian Sea province of Golestan, the official IRNA news agency reported.

Newspapers and agencies reported people rushing out into the streets in eight towns on Tuesday night to watch a bright extraterrestrial light dipping in and out of the clouds.

An air force officer in the Revolutionary Guards was quoted in the reformist Vagha-ye Etefaghiyeh daily as saying that Iran’s Supreme National Security Council should investigate whether these visitors from afar had hostile intent.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4853871/

[sam sarrha]

24. our ONLY hope to survive as a species is for the UFO people to expose how

the universe actually works.. and destroy the ridiculous superstition about religion and the gods creating everything..

once this world is rid of religion we will have a chance to evolve beyond being "Lap Dogs to a Myth".

[Old Mouse]

49. How would you feel

If they proved the opposite? If it turned out they had proof of creationism?

[daleo]

93. I, for one, would welcome our new alien overlords. n/t

[omulcol]

62. Sam Sarrah ...You are my

kind of thinker !

Well said .

Does anyone ever really question why modern religion ( of Human Gods) was invented - and what it's original purpose was for ?

I don't want to upset anyone here ... so I'll just wait for opinions to roll in !!

[seemslikeadream]

68. What does myth do for us? Why is it so important?

Interview with Joseph Campbell

Tom: What does myth do for us? Why is it so important?

Joseph: It puts you in touch with a plane of reference that goes past your mind and into your very being, into your very gut. The ultimate mystery of being and nonbeing transcends all categories of knowledge and thought. Yet that which transcends all talk is the very essence of your own being, so you're resting on it and you know it. The function of mythological symbols is to give you a sense of "Aha! Yes. I know what it is, it's myself." This is what it's all about, and then you feel a kind of centering, centering, centering all the time. And whatever you do can be discussed in relationship to this ground of truth. Though to talk about it as truth is a little bit deceptive because when we think of truth we think of something that can be conceptualized. It goes past that.

Tom: Heinrich Zimmer said "The best truths cannot be spoken. . . "

Joseph: "And the second best are misunderstood."

Tom: Then you added something to that.

Joseph: The third best is the usual conversation - science, history, sociology.

Tom: Why do people confuse these?

Joseph: Because the imagery that has to be used in order to tell what can't be told, symbolic imagery, is then understood or interpreted not symbolically but factually, empirically. It's a natural thing, but that's the whole problem with Western religion. All of the symbols are interpreted as if they were historical references. They're not. And if they are, then so what?

Tom: Let's go carefully here. What are you calling a symbol?

Joseph: I'm calling a symbol a sign that points past itself to a ground of meaning and being that is one with the consciousness of the beholder. What you're learning in myth is about yourself as part of the being of the world. If it talks not about you, finally, but about something out there, then it's short. There's that wonderful phase I got from Karlfried Graf Durkheim, "transparency to the transcendent." If a deity blocks off transcendency, cuts you short of it by stopping at himself, he turns you into a worshipper and a devotee, and he hasn't opened the mystery of your own being.

Tom: You once called that the pathology of theology.

Joseph: That's what I would call it.

Tom: Walter Huston Clark says the church is like a vaccination against the real thing.

Joseph: Jung says religion is a defense against the experience of god. I say our religions are.

Tom: What do you do, then, if the experience is not to be found in religion?

Joseph: You find it in mysticism and get in touch with mystics who read these symbolic forms symbolically. Mystics are people who are not theologians; theologians are people who interpret the vocabulary of scripture as if it were referring to supernatural facts.

There are plenty of mystics in the Christian tradition, only we don't hear much about them. But now and again you run into it. Meister Eckhart is such a person. Thomas Merton had it. Dante had it. Dionysus the Areopagyte had it. John of the Cross breaks through every now and again and then comes slopping back again. He flashes back and forth.

I think Joyce is full of it. And Thomas Mann had it in his writing, though it isn't as far out as Joyce. It's strange how after Mann's death it disappears and you don't get it any more

more
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC12/Campbell.htm

[happyslug]

29. Might be Earth quake related

One of the theories to explain some UFOs is the phenomenon that occurs when large pieces of Rock collide against each other (Like at a earthquake fault line). Lights (Resembling ball lighting) have been know to be caused by these interactions of the earth's plates. Often these increase (or appear) just before a major Earth Quake (sometime weeks before).

What the Iranians may be seeing such earth quake lights produced by the faults that will produce another major earthquake, or products of the faults that caused the Earthquake off Sumatra on the 12/26/04.

Iran is a earthquake area so this might be the cause of these lights people are seeing (and if the reports are true resemble Ball lighting to the extent that they have been picked up on Radar).

[Baclava]

56. Or maybe...

...their underground bases are stressed by the earth movements and they have to get outside for a bit...

[VegasWolf]

33. Shame, the craft travells uncounted light years to get here and blows

up in the atmosphere. Sounds like bad US technology to me.
I guess they are hovering around Iran's nuclear sites because
they are out of gas. Couldn't we be a little more stealthy
than pretending to be a round floating light.

[Massachusetts]

53. UFO Really means

Unfortunate F@#&*king Ordures, (U.S. Foreign policy).:smoke:

[catbert836]

54. Probably new US military aircraft

That's it in all likelihood.

[Octafish]

55. USSR Used to Clamp Down on Such "Nonsense"

Seems many in the USA still do. Odd that, as things that don't make sense require study. Here's work by a fellow probably familiar to Minstrel Boy...

Jacques Vallee has brought much light to this subject:

UFO CHRONICLES OF THE SOVIET UNION

A Cosmic Samizdat - 1992

From Kirkus Reviews:

Newsworthy brief by ufologist Vallee (Confrontations, 1990, etc.) on how the Iron Curtain hid from Western eyes not only a people in chains but also perhaps a star-fleet's worth of UFOs and their bug-eyed occupants. It was on the heels of the notorious Voronezh sightings of 1989 and the first warm breezes of glasnost that Vallee was invited by the Soviet press agency Novosti to visit the USSR to meet with leading Soviet ufologists. In this chronological account of that trip, the author blends pungent travelogue with crisp science reporting, noting, for instance, that ``the depression that engulfs you as you get closer to the Soviet Union is not a delusion....It was as if light itself had been confiscated. There was a dreary blanket over the airport buildings, the dusty air, the people themselves.'' Yet upon his arrival Vallee found myriad scientists eager to exchange notes--an ironic result, he realized, of ``censorship itself,'' which had forced Soviet ufology into ``unofficial networks'' where it flourished. In sit-downs with Soviet researchers, he discussed in detail the Tunguska explosion of 1908 (perhaps caused by destruction of a nuclear-powered craft), the Voronezh incidents, and about 40 other close encounters, and marvelled at the widespread Soviet technique of ``biolocation''--a kind of dowsing of ``biological fields''--to investigate UFOs. He also visited the cosmonauts' training center, learning--and here reporting apparently for the first time in the West--that Yuri Gagarin was drunk when he fatally crashed his airplane. And, gratifyingly, Vallee found considerable Soviet interest in his core theory that UFOs are extradimensional, not extraterrestrial. A ``preliminary catalogue'' of Soviet UFO sightings appends the text. An intriguing example of glasnost in action and an important ufological document opening up rich new veins of exploration for researchers and buffs alike. (Eight-page photo insert--not seen.) -- Copyright ©1992, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved.

SOURCE:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345373960/ref=olp_product_details/103-7883004-9954260?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

[seemslikeadream]

58. Heretic Among Heretics: Jacques Vallee Interview

Heretic Among Heretics: Jacques Vallee Interview
Posted by Minstrel Boy

Jacques Vallee blows my mind.

Q: Let's talk about some of the implications of your research. If the UFO phenomenon is real, but is not aliens from outer space, we're talking about new ways of thinking about reality and cosmology, aren't we?

VALLEE: Yes. In that sense, phenomenon is much more important than visitors from another planet would be. Because it fundamentally challenges the nature of reality. If UFOs are a physical reality, they certainly violate everything we think we know about reality. There are reliable reports of material UFOs that become immaterial and disappear on the spot.

Q: Your theories about UFOs and other "paranormal" phenomena involve your metaphor of the "informational universe," where time and space and whatever other dimensions there might be act as a kind of cosmic computer database. What do you mean by that?

VALLEE: You can get a consistent representation of reality if you look at the world as a collection of events, or 'instances' (as the philosophy of Occasionalism did in the eleventh century), rather than as a collection of material objects moving in 3-dimensional space as time flows. In virtual reality, of course, you can't tell the difference. In the real world information and energy are actually the same physical quantity. In a universe viewed as 'informational events' you should expect coincidences, telepathy, time travel, multiple realities--all those things that seem impossible in the 4-D energy universe. To me that's why puzzles like UFOs are interesting. I don't have a personal theory to "explain" them, but I see them as an opportunity to pose new questions. If it's true that information resides in the questions we ask, coming up with novel problems may be more important than having answers, at this stage of our very limited understanding of the universe.

Q: So reality is like a computer database in that the right search word or "incantation" might cause a piece of information--a UFO or ghost or other anomaly--to materialize.

VALLEE: If you think of reality as the software for the universe, all it would take is for someone to change a comma in the program and the chair you are sitting in wouldn't be a chair at all. The major benefit from this model is that it handles anomalies very well. Coincidences would be a normal expectation. If you address a database with a request for anything with the word "pool" you will get ads for sunscreen, lotions, billiard balls and an investment prospectus or two. In parapsychology gifted subjects may be forcing similar coincidences between separate locations or separate minds. One way of testing the theory, by the way, is to create massive informational anomalies and see what happens when they collapse. You could enhance remote viewing experiments, for instance, by loading the site with large quantities of data about highly unlikely events or situations, then quickly erase that data to collapse the singularity.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc839.htm


posted by seemslikeadream
The art of dreaming - the shamanic vision of a multidimensional cosmos


It is possible to work with "Elemental Beings" in the natural world through shamanism. This will be necessary in order to put the Earth back together. Rational scientific and the intuitive shamanic mindset are going to fuse, necessary for the continuation of the human species.

....

What Is Tensegrity?
Tensegrity is the modernized version of some movements called magical passes developed by Indian shamans who lived in Mexico in times prior to the Spanish Conquest.
Times prior to the Spanish Conquest is a term used by don Juan Matus, a Mexican Indian shaman who introduced Carlos Castaneda, Carol Tiggs, Florinda Donner-Grau and Taisha Abelar to the cognitive world of shamans who lived in Mexico in ancient times -- which, according to don Juan, was between 7,000 and 10,000 years ago.
Don Juan explained to his students that those shamans discovered through practices that he could not fathom, that it is possible for human beings to perceive energy directly as it flows in the universe. In other words, those shamans maintained, according to don Juan, that any one of us can do away, for a moment, with our system of turning energy inflow into sensory data pertinent to the kind of organism that we are. Turning the inflow of energy into sensory data creates, shamans affirm, a system of interpretation that turns the flowing energy of the universe into the world of everyday life that we know.
Don Juan further explained that once those shamans of ancient times had established the validity of perceiving energy directly, which they called seeing, they proceeded to refine it by applying it to themselves, meaning that they perceived one another, whenever they wanted it, as a conglomerate of energy fields. Human beings perceived in such a fashion appear to the seer as gigantic luminous spheres. The size of these luminous spheres is the breadth of the extended arms.
When human beings are perceived as conglomerates of energy fields, a point of intense luminosity can be perceived at the height of the shoulder blades an arm's length away from them, on the back. The seers of ancient times who discovered this point of luminosity called it the assemblage point, because they concluded that it is there that perception is assembled. They noticed, aided by their seeing, that on that spot of luminosity, the location of which is homogeneous for mankind, converge zillions of energy fields in the form of luminous filaments which constitute the universe at large. Upon converging there, they become sensory data, which is utilizable by human beings as organisms. This utilization of energy turned into sensory data was regarded by those shamans as an act of pure magic: energy at large transformed by the assemblage point into a veritable, all-inclusive world in which human beings as organisms can live and die. The act of transforming the inflow of pure energy into the perceivable world was attributed by those shamans to a system of interpretation. Their shattering conclusion, shattering to them, of course, and perhaps to some of us who have the energy to be attentive, was that the assemblage point was not only the spot where perception was assembled by turning the inflow of pure energy into sensory data, but the spot where the interpretation of sensory data took place.
Their next shattering observation was that the assemblage point is displaced in a very natural and unobtrusive way out of its habitual position during sleep. They found out that the greater the displacement, the more bizarre the dreams that accompany it. From these seeing observations, those shamans jumped to the pragmatic action of the volitional displacement of the assemblage point. And they called their concluding results the art of dreaming.
This art was defined by those shamans as the pragmatic utilization of ordinary dreams to create an entrance into other worlds by the act of displacing the assemblage point at will and maintaining that new position, also at will. The observations of those shamans upon practicing the art of dreaming were a mixture of reason and seeing energy directly as it flows in the universe. They realized that at its habitual position, the assemblage point is the spot where converges a given, minuscule portion of the energy filaments that make up the universe, but if the assemblage point changes location, within the luminous egg, a different minuscule portion of energy fields converges on it, giving as a result a new inflow of sensory data: energy fields different from the habitual ones are turned into sensory data, and those different energy fields are interpreted as a different world.
The art of dreaming became for those shamans their most absorbing practice. In the course of that practice, they experienced unequaled states of physical prowess and well-being, and in their effort to replicate those states in their hours of vigil, they found out that they were able to repeat them following certain movements of the body. Their efforts culminated in the discovery and development of a great number of such movements, which they called magical passes.
The magical passes of those shamans of Mexican antiquity became their most prized possession. They surrounded them with rituals and mystery and taught them only to their initiates in the midst of tremendous secrecy. This was the manner in which don Juan Matus taught them to his disciples. His disciples, being the last link of his lineage, came to the unanimous conclusion that any further secrecy about the magical passes was counter to the interest that they had in making don Juan's world available to their fellow men. They decided, therefore, to rescue the magical passes from their obscure state. They created in this fashion, Tensegrity, which is a term proper to architecture that means "the property of skeleton structures that employ continuous tension members and discontinuous compression members in such a way that each member operates with the maximum efficiency and economy." This is a most appropriate name because it is a mixture of two terms: tension and integrity; terms which connote the two driving forces of the magical passes.


As excerpted from Carlos Castaneda's Readers of Infinity, Number 1, Volume 1, 1996. Published by Cleargreen, Incorporated, (c) Copyright 1996-2003, Laugan Productions, Incorporated. All rights reserved.

:hi:

[Octafish]

84. You can't get here from there.

Interstellar Travel by Means of Worm Hole Induction Propulsion (WHIP)

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/whip.pdf

Here's the math. It's a PDF file. Trust me. It's worth it.

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/whip_slides.pdf



I didn't write any of this stuff. Certain a DUer had input, though.

[goforit]

79. They may have clamped down in the past, but the Pravada reports...

them continually to the public in the last eight years.

Now, I do believe the US has the most serious clamp down policy than any other country in the world.

I honestly believe G.H.W. Bush was a Blue Book operative.
He probably is the one responsible for all the clamp downs on every case.

[Octafish]

82. Poppy's CIA all right.

Agree 100-percent. More than a few police officers and newspaper reporters I know would agree, as well.

Until reading your post, I hadn't associated his "service" with Blue Book, however. It does make sense of a lot of the deep doo-doo surrounding the unctuous fellah. There aren't many people who run in circles from the financing of NAZI Germany to Operation PAPERCLIP to the JFK assassination to Selection 2000 and the Big Wedding.

Here's something of interest. Many DUers (perhaps especially Tinoire) know Dan Sheehan's work with the Christic Institute and candidate Dennis Kucinich. The guy's been around the cosmic block more than most...

President Carter, Daniel Sheehan, and Donald Menzel :
The Congressional Research Service UFO Studies for President Jimmy Carter

EXCERPT...

Sheehan recalled the encounter with Marcia where she related to him the reasons behind the study. "She ( Marcia Smith) informed me that she had been contacted by the Chairman of the Science & Technology Committee of the House of Representatives, (Congressman Olin Earl Teague) who in turn had received a directive from the President of the United States, informing the Committee that he ( Carter) in fact had personally seen a UFO while he was in Georgia."

Marcia further informed Sheehan that Carter had approached the House of Representatives Science and Technology Committee based on information he had obtained from former CIA director George Bush. Marcia Smith stated that Carter had approached Bush and stated, "I want to have the information that we have on UFOs and extraterrestrial intelligence. I want to know about this as President."

George Bush, according to Smith said, "no . . . that he wasn’t going to give this to him . . . that this was information that existed on a need to know basis only. Simple curiosity on the part of the President wasn’t adequate."

This Carter-Bush UFO question, referred to by Smith, was probably asked during the first 45 minutes of a multi hour briefing on November 19, 1976. This is the only time that Bush and Carter met while Carter was President-elect. Bush was replaced as DCI, once Carter became President, so there was never a meeting between the two after Carter entered the White House.

SNIP...

The then Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) for President Ford, George Bush, and his assistant Jennifer Fitzgerald, took Carter and Walter Mondale to the Carter living room to provide the selected sensitive information. The other six senior agents apparently weren’t cleared for this part of the briefing. They remained waiting in the Carter study till this key part of the briefing was completed.

CONTINUED...

http://www.presidentialufo.com/marcia_smith_story.htm

[Minstrel Boy]

83. George HW Bush: "I know some. I know a fair amount."

In 1988, during his campaign to become President, George Bush broke with his standard silence on the UFO issue. The incident reawakened all the Ufologists who had believed for years that George Bush was one of the key members of the MJ-12 group that was covering things up.

The incident occurred on March 7, 1988, during a trip to a George Bush for President Rally in Rogers, Arkansas. George Bush was about to go into a building to meet with reporters when a UFO researcher approached him by the name of Charles Huffer. In the days before 911, Huffer and his tape recorder were allowed to walk up to the Vice-president and ask him the UFO question all the conspiracy buffs had wanted asked for years.

"Mr. Bush, Mr. President," asked Mr. Huffer (in the excitement of the moment Mr. Huffer called him President). "Will you tell the people the truth about UFOs?"

"Yeah," replied Bush. Then realizing what he has just said Bush added, "If we can find it, what it is. We are really interested."

...

"Why don’t you send me some information about it? " asked Bush.

"Naw," said Huffer, "you’re a CIA man. You know all that stuff."

" I know some," replied Bush. "I know a fair amount"

The Bush Huffer encounter quickly sped through the UFO community. No one, however, had the details. UFO newsletters and magazines wrote that someone had asked Bush the UFO question, and that he had confirmed something. Many of the stories had him confirming he was with MJ-12. By the time George Bush entered the White House the story had died down.

http://www.presidentialufo.com/bush_ufo_story.htm

[Octafish]

85. Now that ya mention it...

... I do remember once forgetting hearing that story. The old Bushler was poppy-ed the question. Of course, it wouldn't be, um, prudent to actually answer. MJ-12 membership explains the Satanic Thing and the Bay of Pigs Thing.

A buddy of mine's brother was a bird colonel working Blue Book in the 1960s. At the time, the public side of the org was headed by a Major. Go figure. Anyway, the USAF colonel reported a few cases to his brother who relayed them to me, a decade or three removed.

In one, IIRC, a private pilot was cruising along in his single-engine plane when he encountered something out of this world. The guy's instrumentation and engine conked out. He thought it was all over for him, when the object shined a light on his aircraft. The next thing he knew, he was on the ground, next to a tree. The plane was on the ground nearby, without a scratch. The guy said he heard a voice tell him he still wasn't all right, that he should see a doctor. The guy did, and discovered that he had had a lung tumor. However, it no longer was there. It had been removed before it spread. The guy owed his future to something extraordinary. Obviously, this story never made it to the public side of Blue Book.

Of course, that doesn’t quite jibe with the other side of the coin, over Bass Straight.

DSJ My intentions are - ah - to go to King Island - ah - Melbourne. That strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again (open microphone for two seconds). It is hovering and it's not an aircraft.

Australian Pilot Disappears, Valentich

Boats and aircraft have found no trace of the 20-year old Australian pilot who disappeared with his plane on Saturday night after radioing that he was being chased by a UFO. Frederick Valentich was on a 125 mile training flight in his single engine Cessna 182 along the coast of Bass Strait when he told air traffic controllers in Melbourne that he was being buzzed by a UFO with 4 bright lights about 1000 feet above him.

Controllers said his last message was taped and was: "It's approaching from due east towards me. It seems to be playing some sort of game... flying at a speed I can't estimate. It's not an aircraft. It's...It is flying past. It is a long shape. I cannot identify more than that. It's coming for me right now." A minute later: "It seems to be stationary. I'm also orbiting and the thing is orbiting on top of me also. It has a green light and a sort of metallic light on the outside." Valentich then radioed that his engine was running roughly. His last words were: "It is not an aircraft."

The Australian Air Force said it had received 11 reports from people along the coast who said they saw UFOs on Saturday night, but the Transport Department was skeptical. Ken Williams, a spokesman for the department, said, "It's funny all these people ringing up with UFO reports well after Valentich's disappearance. It seems people often decide after the event, they too had seen strange lights. But although we can't take them too seriously, we can never discourgae such reports when investigating a plane's disappearance."

Some Transport Dept officials have speculated that Valentich became disoriented and saw his own lights reflected in the water, or lights from a nearby island, while flying upside down.

CONTINUED...

http://ufocasebook.com/australianpilot.html

I know you know the story, Minstrelnaut. BTW: did you see Cape Otway is just west of Apollo Bay?



I didn't until reading this thread and deciding to do a little moonlighting.

[Minstrel Boy]

86. Thanks for the freaky tale beyond the Blue Book, Doctor Octafish.

The things we're not supposed to know, eh?

We can believe anything we want. But know? Don't trouble yer head, son!

Right back atcha, with a new piece from Linda Moulton Howe

September 12, 1952: America's "Secret War"?
Part 1: UFO Retrieval in Flatwoods, West Virginia

July 19 and 26, 1952 - UFOs Over Washington, D. C.

Around midnight on July 19, 1952, radar operators at Washington National Airport noted several 'blips' on the radar over Washington D.C. The unidentified blips traveled at 100 to 130 mph, but then would accelerate suddenly to speeds in excess of 7,200 mph. Washington National Airport and other radar operators confirmed the radar activity with each other and with Andrews Air Force Base. A week later on Saturday, July 26, 1952, "glowing aerial objects" showed up again on radar over the Nation's capital and The Washington Post even ran a story about one jet pilot's encounter with a "saucer that outran" him.



Six Weeks Later on September 12, 1952

The late afternoon into evening of September 12, 1952, eyewitnesses along the entire East Coast of the United States and inland in places such as Flatwoods, Braxton County, West Virginia, saw and reported "flaming" objects and "strange lights" in the sky. Residents also heard and saw military planes. At least one of the military events was a UFO crash retrieval operation on the hill above Flatwoods, West Virginia, according to Frank Feschino, Jr., an artist illustrator, UFO researcher and author of the recently published book entitled, The Braxton County Monster: The Cover-Up of the Flatwoods Monster Revealed © 2004. About ten years ago, Frank first heard from a West Virginia cousin about the so-called "Flatwoods Monster" associated with the 1952 landing of a very strange object on a hilltop above Flatwoods. Frank Feschino wanted to know more and began digging into old newspaper files, interviewing surviving eyewitnesses and eventually became convinced that on September 12, 1952, the American military had a "secret war" with whatever the flying discs were.

Frank also became convinced after talking and sketching with adults now, who were grade school and junior high age eyewitnesses on September 12, 1952, that the so-called "Flatwoods Monster" was a large mechanical device, not biological. Frank explained that the first people to see an oval-shaped object that looked like it had red-violet-orange flames coming off of it were about a dozen boys ranging in age from ten to fourteen. According to some of the children, the oval object stopped in mid-air and then went down on a hilltop at the Fisher Farm across from the school playground where they were all playing. The children ran to the house of Kathleen May, mother to two of the boys - Edison and Freddie - and she went with them to see the mysterious object which local media and a TV program sensationalized as the "Flatwoods Monster." But Frank Feschino did his own later interviews and sketches with Mrs. May and her grown son, Freddie, that lead him to conclude the Flatwoods event was a UFO crash and retrieval operation of great interest to the United States government - but nothing has ever been shared with the American public.

Interview:

Frank C. Feschino, Jr., Artist Illustrator, UFO Researcher and Author, The Braxton County Monster: The Cover-Up of the Flatwoods Monster Revealed © 2004: "In 1995, I sat down with Freddie May (son of Kathleen May) who saw the 'monster' from about thirty feet away. As I was starting to sketch, I handed Freddie the pencil. I said, 'You start drawing.' So he started sketching and drawing. I said, 'This does not look anything like that stupid drawing that was on We The People (TV show) and that was seen by millions of Americans (back in 1952).

Freddie started sketching it out and I had to help him because he's not a professional artist and then we got a working composite drawing, like a police sketch.

DID HE AGREE THAT IT MAY HAVE BEEN MORE MECHANICAL THAN BIOLOGICAL?

Oh, absolutely. That's exactly what he told me, 'This thing was mechanical. It was not alive.' And Kathleen May told me she could hear it sizzling, like 'bacon frying.' The witnesses heard a thumping noise coming from it, like a beat. It might have been an engine noise. I have no idea.




http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=835&category=Environment

[Octafish]

91. Flatwoods is a most remarkable case.

Thanks for the heads-up on Elizabeth Moulton Howe’s work. Here’s a nice source from your cousin Stanton’s clip-eart:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guests/70.html

I love the Flatwoods Monster case. In a way it brings up Hopkinsville.

Remember Dr. Hynek’s favorite case? The villagers “gasped” when the figure waved back.

It happened one fortnight in Papua…



The Papua, New Guinea Sightings (1)

According to renowned UFO investigator, Dr. J. Allen Hynek, one of the most well-documented "close encounters of the third kind" occurred in the Anglican mission village at Boianai, Papua, New Guinea, which was, at the time of the incident, still a territory of Australia. The Australian Anglican Church was very involved in missionary work, and ardent in sending its heralds to the island nation. One of these was the Father William Booth Gill. Gill was highly thought of by his co-hearts, and all those who knew him. As far as the occurrence of extraordinary events was concerned, Gill was skeptical, to say the least, especially being a devoted Church worker.

The first hint of the events to come, began on April 5, 1959, when Gill saw a light on the uninhabited Mount Pudi. This light, Gill stated, moved faster than anything he had ever seen. A month or so later, his assistant, Stephen Moi, saw an "inverted saucer-shaped object" in the sky above the mission. Gill dismissed these sightings as some sort of electrical or atmospheric phenomena. Little did he know, that these events, whatever they were, had drawn their attention to the sky above them, and soon William Gill would have one of the most celebrated UFO sightings to ever be documented, which was validated by a whole group of additional witnesses.

This extraordinary event would take place at 6:45 P.M., June 26, 1959. Father Gill saw what he described as a bright white light to the Northwest. Word of the sight spread quickly, and within a few moments, Gill was joined by no less than thirty-eight additional witnesses, including Steven Moi, Ananias Rarata, and Mrs Nessle Moi. According to sworn statements, these thirty-plus individuals watched a four-legged, disc-shaped object approximately the size of 5 full moons lined up end to end. This unbelievable craft was hovering over the mission! To their utter surprise, they saw four human-like figures that seemed to be performing a kind of task. Now and then one of the figures would disappear, only to reappear in a moment or two. A blue light would shine up from the craft at what seemed to be regular intervals. The witness watched the craft and its activities for a full forty-five minutes, until the shining ship rose into the sky, and disappeared at 7:30 P.M. Glued to the sky, the witnesses would see several smaller objects appear at 8:30, and twenty minutes later, the first craft reappeared. This phenomenal occurrence would last an incredible four hours, until cloud cover obscured the view at 10:50. Father Gill prepared a full written report of this event, and 25 other observers signed the document.

This first sighting, a once in a lifetime occurrence, would incredibly be followed by another sighting the very next night. At 6:00 P.M., the larger object appeared again, with its occupants. It was shadowed by two of the smaller objects. In William Gill's own words; "On the large one, two of the figures seemed to be doing something near the center of the deck. They were occasionally bending over and raising their arms as though adjusting or "setting up" something. One figure seemed to be standing, looking down at us."

(In a moment of anticipation, Gill raised his arms and waved to the figure.)

"To our surprise the figure did the same. Ananias waved both arms over his head; then the two outside figures did the same. Ananias and myself began waving our arms, and all four seemed to wave back. There seemed no doubt that our movements were answered...."

CONTINUED…

http://ufocasebook.com/Papua.html

[SweetLeftFoot]

99. Awwww

You had to go and make me all homesick at New Years by posting that map.

[damntexdem]

69. I'm surprised Dubya isn't jumping onto this bandwagon:

His 'antimissile defense system' where the interceptor missile can't get off the ground would be perfect for shooting at UFOs.

And he could claim that the UFOs were what spirited the WMDs out of Iraq.

[Old Mouse]

73. Reagan did.

He once joked in a press conference Star Wars could be used to defend earth from non-Terran craft as well as earth missiles.

[Swamp Rat]

74. Probes sent out from the Mothership

[apple_ridge]

77. Throughout the latter part of the 20th century, UFO sightings

around nuclear installations, particularly military, have been one of the most common themes. They seem to be particularly interested in our advancements in the area of nuclear weapons.

I see the recent reports as an indication that Iran's nuke programs might be more advanced than reported and that is a frightening thought.

[goforit]

78. Those aliens know when humanity is at stake.

They always show up during times of turmoil.

And boy.....Do we ever need higher evolved entities right now!!!

They have the ability to read minds and so they probably know
that an attack on Iran is close to happenning.

I hope they can stop it.

[Old Mouse]

100. they might show up in times of turmoil

bringing popcorn.

[lovuian]

89. UFO's are either American Allies

And I can't wait for Iran to answer back with what!!!

[FDRrocks]

98. The human mind can come up with some crazy crap...

I believe that governments do not publicly state the bullshit of UFOs (which translated into layman means aliens) because it benefits them. Since the race to the moon, governments have been trying to find a way to militarize space. This involves, obviously, many unknown aircraft and massive subsidies.

UFOs can even be used to justify the growth of military-industrial complexes. I'm certain it will occur soon.

Recently, I've been reading a site called Shadowlands, that deals with the supernatural relating to ghosts and hauntings. I have read hundreds of their viewer submissions. The common thread in the majority is that the experiences happened before the age of 10.

I was terrified to go downstairs in my house when I was around that age, because the eye of an owl latch hook my grandma made would follow me. I also moved my toy chest into the hall and locked it because I thought my My Buddy doll was chuckie.

I believe like this are just politicians exploiting youth-born fear of the unknown that were never reconciled, and probably facilitated by people constantly telling their children that there is a cloud dude who watches over every moment of their lives.

I am sure that we are not teaching our kids spirituality, but, rather, planting the seeds of schizophrenia.

[Old Mouse]

101. schizophrenia is a medical condition n/t

[FDRrocks]

102. I know I have it

And it can make you think some crazy shit, thank you.

My instance isn't organic. I caused it through abuse of LSD.

[Old Mouse]

103. I am sorry for your trouble

and please take no offense, but LSD abuse is an organic, or chemical, cause. Parents cannot plant the seeds, so to speak.

Are you under treatment?