Conyers Asks Senators to Object to Certification of Election (letter)

[truthpusher]

http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1378&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Letter from Congressman Conyers to US Senators

Calling for Congressional Debate on 2004 Elections

December 30, 2004

Dear Senator Boxer (sent to all US Senators),

As you know, on January 6, 2005, at 1:00 P.M, the electoral votes for the election of the president are to be opened and counted in a joint session of Congress, commencing at 1:00 P.M. I and a number of House Members are planning to object to the counting of the Ohio votes, due to numerous unexplained irregularities in the Ohio presidential vote, many of which appear to violate both federal and state law. I am hoping that you will consider joining us in this important effort to debate and highlight the problems in Ohio which disenfranchised innumerable voters. I will shortly forward you a draft report itemizing and analyzing the many irregularities we have come across as part of our hearings and investigation into the Ohio presidential election.

3 U.S.C. §15 provides when the results from each of the states are announced, that "the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any." Any objection must be presented in writing and "signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received."1. The objection must "state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof."2 When an objection has been properly made in writing and endorsed by a member of each body the Senate withdraws from the House chamber, and each body meets separately to consider the objection. "No votes . . . from any other State shall be acted upon until the objection . . . finally disposed of."3 3 U.S.C. §17 limits debate on the objections in each body to two hours, during which time no member may speak more than once and not for more than five minutes. Both the Senate and the House must separately agree to the objection; otherwise, the challenged vote or votes are counted.4

Historically, there appears to be three general grounds for objecting to the counting of electoral votes. The language of 3 U.S.C. §15 suggests that objection may be made on the grounds that (1) a vote was not "regularly given" by the challenged elector(s); and/or (2) the elector(s) was not "lawfully certified" under state law; or (3) two slates of electors have been presented to Congress from the same State.

Since the Electoral Count Act of 1887, no objection meeting the requirements of the Act have been made against an entire slate of state electors.5 In the 2000 election several Members of the House of Representatives attempted to challenge the electoral votes from the State of Florida. However, no Senator joined in the objection, and therefore, the objection was not "received." In addition, there was no determination whether the objection constituted an appropriate basis under the 1887 Act. However, if a State - in this case Ohio - has not followed its own procedures and met its obligation to conduct a free and fair election, a valid objection -if endorsed by at least one Senator and a Member of the House of Representatives- should be debated by each body separately until "disposed of".

(snip)

Sincerely,


John Conyers, Jr.

http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1378&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

[Just Me]

1. I'll throw in a strong appeal to Senator Byrd, as well.

We only need ONE.

For crying out loud,...may just ONE BRAVE SOUL step up to the plate, this time.

[stevedeshazer]

14. Barack Obama

Got ten bucks on him.

[tritsofme]

32. Obama has a huge future in the Democratic Party

He's not going to make a fool of himself in front of the country over this conspiracy theory.

[stevedeshazer]

40. Voter disenfranchisement = conspiracy theory?

You know better than that, come on.

Telling the truth = making a fool of yourself?

When will a Democrat tell the truth, then?

[puddycat]

47. Exactly! Being a Senator is an extremely juicy job.

NO Senator is going to throw his personal future away. The only Senators who would possibly consider it are ones who have no intention of running again.

[0007]

53. Jays'us fucking Christ you talk like you got a paper asshole.

Conspiracy theory? A huge future in the Democratic Party?

If he doesn't stand for truth he'll go down the drain with his country!

[truthpusher]

57. paper asshole?

[Divine Discontent]

66. paper asshole

too funny!

I'm sure to someone, that's an old family saying...

fortunately, not mine.

ha.

[0007]

70. 'Tis high class lawyer talk

[xultar]

2. Representative John Conyers, Thank You!!!! n/t

[Pithy Cherub]

11. You speak for me as well!

Representative Conyers is a Profile in Courage and my HERO!

[Divine Discontent]

67. Ditto n/t

[mother earth]

3. Emailed my Sen. Ted Kennedy.

Hope we get somewhere

[Raster]

4. Now we will see what our elected representatives are made of.

Will they allow this travesty of an election to stand or will someone in the Senate chamber grow some balls ? January 6 will draw the battle lines. Does our republic continue or do we fall to corporate tyranny and theocratic fascism?

[clydefrand]

6. Can women grow balls too? :-)

[Raster]

7. Absolutely. Sometimes they grow bigger ones than the guys.

[Just Me]

22. Why would they want to do that?!?!?!

If anything, we should, perhaps, advocate for medications controlling the unleashed elements of testorone production.

Doncha' think,...maybe? :bounce:

[truthpusher]

58. I had an Aunt once....oh, nevermind.

[David Dunham]

5. Guys, get real: no Dem Senator is going to do this

A protest will not produce a change in the result of the election, so no Dem Senator will protest. That is an absolute fact. We should focus on stopping SS privatization and other Bush proposals.

[Just Me]

8. There are few "absolute facts".

There is no reason NOT to appeal for just ONE BRAVE SOUL to step up to the plate.

Such an appeal will NOT result in any dimunition of the fight against other right-wing proposals.

I'm sick of appeasing the right-wing corporate predatory radicals.

[David Dunham]

10. A protest would be frivolous and be opposed by 99 Senators

[Just Me]

16. I don't believe a protest would be "frivolous",...

,...and I really do NOT CARE if it is opposed by 99 Senators.

I am no longer willing to appease the right-wing corporate blood-suckers!!!

Are you?

[zann725]

33. No defense of the Constitution, or ones FAIR right to ALL votes counted

is EVER 'frivolous.'

I am also no longer willing to appease! Would a Repug 'appease?!' NEVER!! Nor should we!:kick:

[grasswire]

56. okay, fire is coming out of my ears now

Considering the fact that too many of my family members spilled their blood to protect the precious principle of one man, one vote, and considering the fact that black folk were beaten, lynched, spat upon, humiliated, tortured, enslaved and denied the vote for generations, a protest -- any protest -- is not frivolous.

God almighty. Frivolous?? Frivolous?????????

How dare you?

[Child_Of_Isis]

34. If this were happening to the republicans...

would they have a problem finding a Senator, I wonder?

[Just Me]

39. Hell, no. Those RW predators have been salivating since Nixon!!!

What really chaffs my butt is that,...the bullying corporate profitteers have been allowed to demean the most precious and noble assets our people, all people, have ever offered: HOPE and TRUST and INVESTMENT in humanity,...in ourselves!!!!

EWWWWW!!!! Those MoFos have dragged us all down!!!!

I OPPOSE those self-interested, heartless, scum-of-the-earth bullies,...with every breath of my being!!!!

:grr:

[Johnny Noshoes]

13. Okay so maybe it won't change the results

Okay so maybe it WON'T change the results but I for one would like to see everything come to halt even if for a moment. Just for once I'd like to see a Democrat with REAL COURAGE stand up and say HELL NO WE WON'T. When do you fight? When do you say ENOUGH!


"When you trade your values for the hope of winning, you end up losing and having no values....so you keep losing." Howard Dean 2004

[Malikshah]

15. I disagree-- a protest whatver the outcome is in order

There are thousands whose votes have been effectively destroyed.

Enough with the "picking of battles" issue-- this is one area in which Americans should stand up and be counted.

No, it might not effect the outcome--but it will go down on record.

History will prove us all right--and we will be able to say we stood up. We voiced our protest.

Enough with dancing to the rulers' tunes. We've got our own songs to sing.

[Mr.Green93]

24. party pooper

[MGKrebs]

29. Perhaps.

But that doesn't mean one doesn't try to make it happen. We are big enough to "focus" on more than one thing. Or even two things.

I am reminded of an old advertising campaign of the PA lotetery:
No tickee, no money.

[truthpusher]

60. If the Earth can wipe out 400,000 people, without notice...

...then you never know what might lie ahead...maybe the age of change and the unexpected is upon us.

[wicket]

9. WOO HOO!!!

:kick:

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

12. Why do I feel like I have lived through this? Oh, yeah... I have

in 2000.
And the result will be.....





The same.



Not one Senator will bite.




Selah.

[gratuitous]

17. Ya think Kerry can be persuaded?

What am I saying? This is the guy who had $15 million left over at the end of his campaign.

Yeah, never mind. As useful as the debate would be, and as predetermined as the outcome would be, it would still be a very useful exercise, and point out in a public forum some of the jiggery-pokery engaged in by the Republicans. But the first commandment of the elected members of the Democratic party seems to be, "Thou Shalt Not Embarrass the Opposition, Even When They Sorely Deserve It."

[PaybackTime]

18. My money's on Kuccinich

If Kuccinich doesn't do it, there must be a good reason because he surely does have the balls. It may not go anywhere but that isn't the point. The point is to Stand Up and Say: "We not going to take it anymore!"

[PaybackTime]

19. Oops!

I just realized Kuccinich isn't a senator. Well, back to the drawing board...there must be someone, even if means risking their career.

[gratuitous]

20. You would think Sen. Byrd doesn't have much to lose

He's getting near the end of his career. And it's pretty apparent that he's got very little love for the corrupt Bush administration. C'mon Sen. Byrd! One last little monkey wrench before they shut you up forever.

[Just Me]

23. Yup. I am appealling to that man,...big time!!! n/t

[kevinam]

21. actually...

Yea, I know you corrected yourself, and that isn't where I am going. Where has he been?? Isn't he from Ohio, and the Cleveland area more specifically. I am surprised by his silence.
Kevin.

[PaybackTime]

25. Edwards

Someone on another thread suggested Edwards as he'll still be serving on Jan. 6th.

As far as Kuccinich, I'm a little surprised he's silent but he has shown he has guts.

[Nothing Without Hope]

30. I heard that the "old" senators will be out on Jan 3 n/t

[0rganism]

68. Sen. Edwards, of all people, has absolutely NOTHING to lose

If he doesn't object to the congressional certification, or whatever it's called, who else would? Of course, that assumes he'd still be in office on the 6th.

[SlowDownFast]

62. Kerry will be in Iraq

and that's exactly where he should be when this happens.

[Lorien]

26. As much as I would love to be proven wrong

I can't see any Senators removing their pink tutus long enough to voice an objection. Most of them love power more than they love their country. :-(

[Tinoire]

46. Byrd. I really believe Byrd will do it. He just better plan on never

taking another small plane again.

[gizmo1979]

27. same as 4 years ago

all we needed was 1 senator.I don't see much chance of that happening. Sad state of affairs.

[magellan]

28. Naysayers, READ what Conyers says

"I am hoping that you will consider joining us in this important effort to debate and highlight the problems in Ohio which disenfranchised innumerable voters."

Conyers is drawing a line in the sand. The goal isn't to change the outcome of the election -- that obviously isn't going to happen. The goal is to force our Elected Officials to uphold the law as is their duty; to acknowledge the significance of what happened in Ohio and recognize that its serious nature is not "normal" and merits their attention.

Any senator who reviews the volumes of evidence and still refuses to join with Conyers is PART OF THE PROBLEM. If they aren't willing to defend the rights of voters to a fair and free election then they prove themselves enemies to democracy.

I, for one, will be taking careful note of who stands up and who doesn't.

[designforce]

35. I too will be watching

I am hoping that there will be more than One senator who stands up for what is right.

Hoping, but not holding my breath.

This is a watershed moment for me. Do I stay in the party or do I leave and join an independent progressive party....

We shall see.

[Nothing Without Hope]

31. This is an important step.

After the Olbermann interview, Conyers was still saying it wasn't definite that he would take this step. I'm betting at least one senator WILL stand with the representatives this time. And this time, the first time people will see the representatives stand to challenge the election results will NOT be in a movie theater over 3 years later.

In one of Will Pitt's posts on this board, he mentioned that he had heard that one of the reasons some senators were considering joining the challenge was that they didn't want that Fahrenheit 9/11 scene to be repeated. Let's hope these unnamed senators find enough courage to stand with the representatives when the time comes.

[Mandate My Ass]

36. "they didn't want that Fahrenheit 9/11 scene to be repeated..."

How sad. Maybe they should do it because it's the right thing to do for America....Nah, screw that, image is everything.:evilfrown:

[Nothing Without Hope]

50. I do believe that any senators or reps joining the stand...

...on Jan 6 in the protest to the election results will be doing it based on their finding the courage to do what they believe is right. It's much safer and smoother, given the current climate even among many Democrats, to keep sitting. There are always excuses that can be found later for not taking the difficult path.

I will be watching and I will remember who stands and who does not.

[DFLforever]

61. IMO it's not sad, it's instructive.

and shows the power of imagination on human behavior.

The film powerfully drove home the significance of the senators' refusal to act.

[Liberty Belle]

52. Will Michael Moore be filming again, I hope?

[Nothing Without Hope]

54. I'm thinking that he is

We know he had crews out filming on election day, with the idea of documenting voter suppression. He will certainly be interested in what happens in Congress in Jan 6. And he does think this election was stolen, just like the last one.

And he is not a man to sit quietly and not show the truth when it is needed.

[benny05]

37. If this is the year of "Vote John 04"

Hello, this is my very first DU post! :-)

I think John Conyers will succeed in getting at least one senator to help contest the election. It's too bad JRE cannot since his term is up on Monday. But I have written to Senator-elect Obama, and Senators Durbin and Harkin so far. I intend to write Senators Kennedy, Byrd, Jeffords, Leahy, Feingold, and Stabenow because I think I think one of them will do the right thing. I used to live in the Bay State, and now I live in the Midwest, so I think my tiny voice will be heard a little. Whether they listen and act are another.

Kennedy and especially Byrd don't have anything to lose, and Byrd has demonstrated disdain for the current administration very openly. I don't think Senators Clinton, Rockefeller, Lautenberg, Binghamington or Mikulski will do anything to help, especially if Clinton intends to make a run for the office herself. I hope Boxer will, but my gut tells me maybe not.

We cannot continue to have our elections under suspect; it must be investigated to its fullest, and as voter/taxpayers, we have the right to know the truth. I've been using some borrowed language in my letters, but I've tried to personalize the e-mails a bit so that the staffers will read them. I have to keep optimistic as JRE said that every vote will be counted and will count.

[Just Me]

42. Hi Ya' "benny05"

Welcome to DU :hi:

Everything great operates from a base of hope and hard-earned "evidence" *LOL*!!!!

Nothing is ever gained from a position of despair.

Win, lose or draw,...we must fight,...fight with every resource we have,...to preserve the integrity of democracy.

"Truth" is integral to the hope of democracy.

[Liberty Belle]

51. Write to Boxer, too. She has a safe seat and is very liberal.

Also she's about to receive a petition with over 15,0000 signatures asking her to contest the election.

[ldf]

38. EVERY democratic senator

better get their ass out there and make a stand.

it's put up or shut up time.

this could be the defining action that decides whether the democratic party continues to exist, or something else evolves to take it's place.

it they don't act, i'm looking at anything the pops up to take their place.

[goforit]

41. Yes and let them expose the disloyal democrats who choose to not

allow the votes to count.

2000, part II

[Just Me]

45. Are they "fighters" or "appeasers"?

This time,...their courage, or lack thereof,...will demonstrate their allegiance.

Time to step up,..."FOR THE PEOPLE"!!!!

Time to be precise about what "government" is for,...and don't let the "predatory, profit-bending, preachers" take the pulpit or thump on our struggling people.

Damn!!! Expose these assholes who use others in order to profit themselves!!!

[ramapo]

43. Not these gutless wonders

Not one Democrat summoned the courage to object in 2000. You can bet your life that it will not happen in 2004.

Imagine the uproar though if it happened!

[Annus Horribilis]

44. Can Kerry Be The Senator

That objects to certification?

[old blue]

48. It would seem so, but

seeing as how this move is mostly (but valuable) political theater, it would make an otherwise stronger stand appear to be more like sour grapes.

We'll need someone else to stand up.

[Annus Horribilis]

49. Thanks

Since it won't be Kerry and can't be Edwards, I'm thinking the best guess would be on Sens. Kennedy and Byrd. But, I'm still having doubts if even they will stand up.

[old blue]

55. Yeah, if no senator stands up, then I vow to apologize to

Ralph Nader for ever doubting his contention that there's no difference between the democrats and the republicans.

[bpilgrim]

59. has CNN picked up on this yet?

:evilgrin:

peace

[Dr Fate]

63. They would if top DEMS would make some noise...

...but they are too chicken/dishonest to do to so...

[Sleepless In NY]

64. TY Rep Conyers & all Democratic Senators should sign.

Imagine begging for just one senator? They should all stand in unison. Republicans would and we all know it.

Voting in this country should be like going to an ATM machine, you put in what you want and you get a receipt. For that reason alone these democrats should get off their duffs and protest. All this talk about democracy & freedom and no one is even sure their vote counts. Sad. I listened to Rep. Conyer's hearings, there were many people with legitimate complaints. These people deserve a party that will champion their cause, not run and hide from it.

I'd not only like to see them knocking each other over to sign on Jan 6th, but how about taking it a step further, and protesting no armor for the troops? Or the cuts that are going to have to take place because we are so in debt? Or the 45 million dollars being spent on bush's coronation while we are at "war" (JFK donated his salary to charity and there was no war) and with this horrific tragedy on the other side of the world, we spend more on bush's party? What the hell kind of "values" are these? Speak up democrats!

Do you have any idea what kind of publicity that would bring to the real issues we are facing? Democrats are always complaining they don't get press, well, here's your chance. A chance to make a big issue about EVERYTHING that's going on wrong in this country, that day. Your day to protest the bush administration policies. In front of the press. Bush's approval ratings suck anyway, so add alittle fuel to the fire. To show people what you stand for, what you are willing to fight for, why they should vote for you. That you care.

I know I'm dreaming. That would take "balls" or courage or guts or spine or character or whatever you want to call it. And it would require them not being so "nice". Perish the thought.

So let cheney keep telling Leahy to f*** off, and let bush keep bashing Massachusetts, and when it comes time to sign on Jan 6th, put on your "nicest" face and crawl away with your tails between your legs, like you did last time, with all the press watching. People will really believe you'll fight for them then, won't they?

No, they wont! So wake the hell up!

[NVMojo]

65. This man rules!!!!!

I am crossing my fingers, praying and barking at the moon that some of them will stand with him ....don't let us get fecked again!!!!

[illuminaughty]

69. I'd say we owe a great deal of gratitude to Conyers

And there better be at least one Senator with the balls (or other equipment) to stand up beside him.