Powell: Up to 5,000 Americans unaccounted for in tsunami disaster

[gp]

Up to 5,000 Americans unaccounted for in tsunami disaster: Powell

As many as 5,000 Americans are still unaccounted for a week after the world's deadliest tsunami pounded a dozen countries across the Indian Ocean, US Secretary of State Colin Powell said.

Powell told reporters aboard his plane en route to Bangkok that the confirmed toll of Americans still stood at 15 with a defense department worker listed as missing.

More
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/050103/1/3pmin.html

[demnan]

1. This number sounds unlikely to me

I don't know. But if it were true, why didn't we hear about it before?

[snooper2]

2. Because it's more than what died on 9/11

....

[complain jane]

4. you beat me to it.

[CottonBear]

7. The Swedes are missing almost 4,000 people.

This a very sad situation. Many other Scandanavians are missing as well as people from all over the world. Go to the BBC Southeast Asia news and you'll see list of the missing from many countries.

[msanthrope]

32. Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!!!!

There goes the winner's bell:

More than 9/11 and no "evildoers" to blame it on. AND

Bush sat on his ass, again.

No wonder we ain't talkin' 'bout it!!!

Maybe this is Colin's parting gift......

[alcuno]

58. Boy, did you hit the nail on the head.

Our crack media has been acting like 4000 Americans are just wandering around the area having too much fun to check in with their family members back in the States.

[tx_dem41]

9. Too low or too high? n/t

[Benhurst]

11. Yeah, why haven't we heard this before? The figure sounds

reasonable to me, but why hasn't it been widely reported?

Could it be that this can't be blamed on the Arabs or other "terrists?"

On 9/11 Bush and Company wailed "Why do THEY hate us?" I guess now it would be a tad awkward to cry out "Why does GOD hate us?", since Bush & Company undoubtedly would be the cause.

[MissB]

39. I saw that figure on CNN.com late last week

and probably at other sources as well. I don't think they were really hiding it.

They were still in SAR mode, which I think is about over. Given the crappy communications in many parts of many of the affected countries, I'm willing to give them a break on this. I don't feel the need to adjust my tin foil (not saying you need to either - I'm just saying I don't see a conspiracy here).

[Benhurst]

43. You're probably right. But the MSM usually plays a foreign

story like this:
FIVE THOUSAND AMERICANS MISSING!
400,000 foreigners confirmed dead

Maybe this was just overwhelming for their usual treatment.

[complain jane]

3. Bush must be beside himself; number's higher than 9/11

and he can't capitalize on the tsunami. Unless he wants to use it to declare war on Indonesia for unleashing that weapon of mass destruction.

[rodeodance]

17. Bush is capitalizing on the disaster!! His mug was all over the news today

saying how compassionate Americans are!!

[dummy-du1]

29. If you meant Jeb Bush,

you're right. He's going to South Asia as presidential envoy. Guess who will run for president in 2008, and what will be proof for his foreign policy credentials then? One family to rule them all...

[LSparkle]

42. I was absolutely sickened by this!

OK, so he's the guv of FLA, but geez, can it be more obvious? Foreign policy credentials for Jebby so he can step up next time. The entire family is one big terrifying joke ... The 3K figure has been out there for the past few days but no one is talking about it for exactly the reasons cited here. NOTHING can be a bigger catastrophe to this country than 9/11 -- at least not as long as Jackass is CIC.

[MADem]

66. He dragged out Poppy and Clinton

...he sent Colin and Jeb out to find facts, and, a day late and a dollar short (let's not talk about those stingy dollars, he had to fix that issue too) he finally got off his ass, sent in the Navy to coordinate disaster relief, and ORDERED THE FLAGS LOWERED TO HALF STAFF.

Funny how we didn't have to wait a WEEK to decide whether or not to lower the flag after 911....

[Carni]

57. Just give him a few days...

I am SURE he will think of something!

He always does!

[Heddi]

5. We must SMOKE OUT The tsunami's

and the governments that harbour them. We will hunt down and obliterate EVERY EARTHQUAKE on this planet.

How long until the gullible people are told that 9/11=Osama=Sadaam=Tsunami (and how long after that until the gullible people actually BELIEVE it???)

[LynnTheDem]

6. WE KNOW where the tsunamis are.

There is NO DOUBT.

[complain jane]

30. There's an old poster out west somewhere...

says wanted, dead or alive... tsunami... it's hard work... it's hard work...

[girl gone mad]

35. North, South, East an West. n/t

[mhr]

8. Where Are The Caves That Tsunami's Hide In?

eom

[mtnester]

46. You know we will have to develop "tsunami buster bombs"

to get em

[dummy-du1]

33. On an especial fair and balanced news program

I heard Colin Powell saying, that his reliable sources told him about a clear link between the South American dictator Hugo Chavez and plate tectonics. So, prepare for Operation Righteous Cause to free the enslaved people of Venezuela from this evil geologic terrorist! (And no, it's not because of the oil -- stop saying that!!!)

[ingasm]

10. A quiet vacation?

I hope the Rumsfeld was the "defense department worker." Then Bush has no choice but to replace his bitch ass.

[Inland]

12. Could it be that nobody at USG is looking for them?

If there are fifteen confirmed dead, and five thousand unaccounted for, then it is because the government isn't looking and doesn't have the means to track passports or people, even to the extent of calling our own consulates. Which sounds like our government all over.

[hunter]

37. I think you've nailed it.

"...isn't looking and doesn't have the means."

Sorting through dead tourists is a pretty grim task.

[aneerkoinos]

45. It's a scandal

Why is the US media so silent? Why is US admin doing close to nothing to collect and pass info?

"Unaccounted" at this stage pretty much means dead, I'm afraid. There are several thousands of unidentified dead in Thailand alone, half of them tourists. All the bodies will never be found. Those found are now unrecognizable and can be identified only through DNA samples and dental records, and that work will take a long time, weeks if not months. There are several forensic teams to help the Thai officials in that work from Finland and other countries.

Finland and other Nordic Countries have now accomplished the airlift and search operations in hospitals and clinics to bring back their citizens, the medical teams are now helping the locals. At least Finland and Norway have published their lists of missing so the information could be checked, doublechecked and verified, there are now about 200 missing Finns, and now very little hope (close to zero) of anyone on the list being found alive. So the friends and relatives can now start the process of coming to terms with what has happened instead of torturing themselves not knowing and hoping, even if the body is found, identified and brought for burial several weeks after.

I'm not aware of any such work done by US, and those having friends and relatives missing must be going grazy with worry. Not knowing is the worst thing. There may be hope that some of the US missing are backpackers in the general area, who just have not been contacted but reported missing by some of their relatives and/or friends. I guess like in other countries, in US State department is the responsible one, and once the people having their loved ones missing and having received no help get their voice heard in public, it's easy to put blame on Powell (who is leaving anyway) for not doing anything.

[phusion]

13. I don't know...

It could be they are "unaccounted for" because we cannot communicate easily with the area and they cannot get transportation out.

I'm guessing this number will drop dramatically. It's only been a week...

[KDLarsen]

14. A lot of transportation links have been established

granted, that's for the major tourist sites (SAS ran an airbridge to/from Thailand in the past week). But because it HAS been a week, the number isn't very likely to drop unless an official search is made. I mean, if you're trapped somewhere for a week, most likely without clean water & food, your survival chances are quite low.

[rodeodance]

15. U.S. knew of the 9.0 earthquake and chose not to warm others because

it might disrupt the tourist industry!! Why is not the media all over this?

[Earth_First]

31. Can you provide a link to this?

eom

[shanti]

34. you might do a search on DU

it was posted here last week.

[sandnsea]

41. That is not accurate at all

It was LOCAL offiicals IN OTHER COUNTRIES who chose not to notify anybody about the possibility of a tsunami. The US had nothing to do with that decision at all.

[Carni]

59. There is a Canadian Professor who claims otherwise

Take this for what it's worth... but here is a link to what I read yesterday (I think it was posted on here but I am not sure)

If what Chossudovsky claims, is indeed true, then once again Bush has proven his admin to be completely negligent IMO

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO412C.html

Below are the credentials of the Professor who claims what is at the above link:

Michel Chossudovsky is professor of economics and international development at the University of Ottawa, Canada. Dr. Chossudovsky has been an economic advisor to governments of developing countries and a consultant for several international organizations, including the United Nations Development Programme and the African Development Bank. He worked for the Canadian International Development Agency on missions to Latin America, Southeast Asia and sub-Saharan Africa and is a member of a special task force on Rwanda's wartime debt. He has also been a speaker in several world summits, including the Group of Seven. Dr. Chossudovsky's most recent book is entitled The Globalisation of Poverty: Impacts of IMF and World Bank Reforms, and he is a frequent contributor to Le Monde Diplomatique and Third World Resurgence. Dr. Chossudovsky has a B.A. from the University of Manchester, a diploma in economic planning from the Institute of Social Studies at the Hague in the Netherlands and a Ph.D. in economics at the University of North Carolina.

[sandnsea]

61. No he doesn't

I didn't find anything about the tourism industry in that article. Do you know anything about the tsunami center in Hawaii? 5 guys in a small building. Hardly the stuff of international intrigue. If they could have warned somebody, they would have. What concerns me more, since I live in a tsunami warning area, is that they issued a release that it was an 8 earthquake and it took them 15 minutes. They updated it to an 8.5 an hour later. The response time is almost worthless no matter where a tsunami might be. Yes this is a huge problem and needs a serious investigation. But it's not a conspiracy theory. Warnings eventually made it to some countries, but they chose not to issue evacuations. It was the country's decisions, not the tsunami center.

[Carni]

64. Yes, he does say we did not effectively warn other countries

I was responding to THIS statement in the title of the first post on the string:

"U.S. knew of the 9.0 earthquake and chose not to warn others"

The link I posted clearly states that the Canadian author wants an answer as to why the data said an 8.0 and the earthquake was in excess of a 9--

If you misconstrued my remark about there being a "conspiracy" amongst the tourist trade then that would be an error on my part for not being concise.

The tourist industry IMO has zero to do with this.

The US managed to notify our military base in the region but couldn't see fit to issue accurate data to other countries?
(as is stated in the article)

I don't blame the "five guys" in the small building in Hawaii,
but I see nothing conspiratorial about wondering why our government didn't better assist other governments with reliable and timely data
(Holiday or otherwise)

There have been too many situations during the Bush admin's tenure where they have not been able to warn properly of assorted events, didn't know of problems ahead of time, lacked proper data...etc

9-11, the space shuttle burn up, Saddam's bogus weapons of mass destruction, Abu Gharib abuses, shortages of flu shots, no paper trails on computerized ballot machines and on and on and on--the instances of this admin's incompetence are literally too numerous to recall, or mention.

I see nothing conspiratorial about thinking that the ball was probably dropped once again and this matter warrants investigation IMO

[sandnsea]

68. "might disrupt the tourist industry"

That is specifically what I was responding to. Your post has nothing to do with that. I don't blame the 5 guys in Hawaii if this is the best they can do, but they ARE the ones responsible for issuing the warnings. If the earthquake reports they did issue are the best they can do, we've got more problems than just the lack of an Asian warning. I agree with most of what you say and we definitely need investigations into this. I've said for a while now, how hard is it to pick up a phone. This Administration does drop the ball alot, it would be interesting to know whether procedures have changed, or funding, or something that would have caused such a lapse in communication.

[Carni]

69. I would bet $$$ that something changed under bush to add to this mess

I have no proof of that and will probably get quoted as a whacko in some newspaper...but my common sense tells me that this buffoon fested admin has done something to cut funding, or screw up the lines of communications (or God only knows what!)

In the end it always seems like it's some huge snafu on their end!

[bloom]

70. The only thing I've seen was in Thailand

"Thailand's meteorological department knew by 8.10am (local time) on Sunday about an hour before the first waves hit that a powerful earthquake had struck near Sumatra, and they discussed the possibility that the quake could cause large sea disturbances. The department had already distributed information pamphlets several years ago explaining the risks of tsunamis around southern Thai beach resorts.

But without definitive proof of an imminent tsunami, the meteorological department dared not issue a national warning lest it be accused of spreading panic and hurting the tourism industry if the disturbances did not materialise.

"Not every earthquake that occurs in the sea will cause a tsunami; it is very difficult to know," said Sumalee Prachuab, a seismologist at the department. "If we issue a warning about the possibility of a tsunami, people will panic very much.

"Phuket is for the tourists, and they will cancel everything," she said. "Then if the tsunami did not occur, the meteorological department will have many telephone calls, complaining "why did you make that prediction?".

reported in the Financial Times

[Carni]

72. I think what really puzzles me

Is why they tracked the initial quake so much lower than what it was?
(If I read this right they passed on data that wasn't very accurate)

I would like to be able to check out the funding to these projects here over the last four years, just for the hell of it...it would not surprise me if our dimwit of a resident made big cuts to the programs.

Whatever the case may be it's obvious that a better system needs to be in place (I mean globally)

[bones_7672]

48. Ah, this is FALSE INFORMATION. n/t

[Hekate]

52. Wrong: In that region there was no one for us to warn

Tsunamis usually occur within the Pacific "Rim of Fire" and are exceptionally rare in other parts of the globe.

Locales like Japan and Hawaii have been trying to predict tsunamis practically forever, and it's well-known that earthquakes cause them. When I was a little kid in Hawaii in the 1950s our warning system consisted of old air-raid sirens, which alerted us to turn on the radio for information about where and when the earthquake had been, what magnitude it was, and which local areas should prepare to evacuate to higher ground.Scientific sensing instruments are a lot more sophisticated now, and there's a great deal of international co-operation -- in the Pacific. Even so, it doesn't always prevent loss of life: only a couple of years ago an entire village was lost in New Zealand, although compared to the magnitude of this disaster that now looks like success.

The Indian Ocean region's governments didn't think this was an urgent problem for them, and they do not have the infrastructure to receive and act on this information.

There were scientists who definitely tried to reach out as soon as their instruments recorded the whopping 9.0 scale earthquake, but my understanding is they couldn't find anyone to take their calls.

The blame, such as it is, lies with governments that have no particular plan to inform their citizens of an approaching disaster. Areas of the world farthest away from the quake actually had quite a few hours before the first wave struck their coasts.

Hekate

[Lucky Luciano]

16. For this you cannot blame the emporer...

I am sure that it was not realized that people were missing until they did not show up somewhere...in a situation like this, people might have had return tickets for a couple days ago and then did not report home....after a week of people not reporting home, worried relatives put them on the missing list. It is very hard to gauge how many are really missing.

[rodeodance]

18. oh, i can blame the WH for their slow response!! --at that time probably

just thought it was another third world country (maybe Muslim accorred to him and his cabal--maybe not!). Read racism!!

[tx_dem41]

25. But what does that have to do ...

with 5,000 people missing, which is what the thread is about?

[amazona]

21. yes, you show your passport when you return

I don't see how the U.S. gov't would have any way of knowing how many Americans were in the affected areas. We won't know the full horror of how many are lost until families, couples, and individuals fail to return from their vacations.

[rodeodance]

23. my point is that there was a general lack of concern/caring by our gov.

no matter how many US citizens were involved. Later they were shamed into giving more and being more "compassionate"

[DS1]

19. They were obviously either guilty of something, or liberals looking for

sex.

/Freeper

[gp]

20. and i thought you were joking...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1313087/posts

[DS1]

22. so did I. It just goes to show you can find anything on the internet

if you look hard enough :eyes:

Idiots.

[rodeodance]

24. Have not heard this on the news yet (been flipping the cabel stattions)

from your link above:

.....The number of private citizens or citizens unaccounted for still lingers around 4-5,000," he said, adding the figure was based on phone calls from relatives or friends inquiring about their whereabouts.

Powell said this did not mean they were necessarily casualties in the catastrophe.

But he added: "We can't ignore the very distinct possibility that there are Americans within this number who have lost their lives. We just don't know that."......

[Catchawave]

63. Glad you posted this...

...that the number is based on phone inquiries. Also, I heard a lady from the State Dept mention this may include alot of duplicates too, and that they are constantly calling people back to see if they've heard from their friend or relative yet.

[dqueue]

26.

Perhaps DoD publically "disappeared" these 5000 for future plans...

</tinfoil hat>

[DELUSIONAL]

27. There is a whole cruising community

people who sail in the tropics and live on their boats. Many of the countries hit had been catering to this sailing community. Many of the cruisers are Americans.

We have friends and people we know to be somewhere in the area hit.

In one photo on the BBC website there is a sailboat anchored out and in the path of the Tsunami waves.

I also know people who travel to Thailand frequently and in fact one person who was in the areas hardest hit just a couple of weeks ago. So the number of Americans in that area could be quite high -- only the Immigration authorities of each country would know how many foreigners are in their countries.

We haven't read any news accounts of American embassy employees giving a damned about helping, locating nor accounting for Americans in that part of Asia. According to cruisers accounts -- Americans who have been left without passports (due to boat sinkings) got more help from other countries in re-establishing their papers than from the US embassy. I don't have a link but these people have written articles for Sailing Magazines.

[pacifictiger]

28. Yes I've been wondering about americans

too and hope that most are OK.
While Australia, NZ, & european nations have sent planes to bring their surviving citizens home, and govt officials to help with lost passports etc., the only thing I have heard about the US is the difficulty americans had in trying to contact their embassy. There was one story where US officials told the people they had to go down the road and pay for new passport photos. I looked at the US embassy website trying to find info on americans, but it only said people had to make their way to the Bankok embassy before they would be helped - other stories were that the phone was not even being answered at the embassy. Disgraceful.
I hate to admit it, but in the back of my mind I was almost wishing the american toll might supercede 9/11 so George could stop using that for his terra scares platform. (Sick, I know, but that's what his madness has reduced this to!!)

[Stephanie]

36. Is there any link where people are posting they have people missing?

Is there any BB where people are looking for friends & relatives? This story has been bizarrely unreported. How are people going about looking? How could 5000 Americans be missing and we don't see stories about the relatives?

[donkeyotay]

38. This is too weird

Wouldn't our government or Red Cross or somebody set up a hotline for people to call, to act as a clearing house for those who have checked in to say they're okay?

[Skarbrowe]

62. 1-888-407-4747 ?? I think that's the number they had on NBC tonight.

I was only half-listening to a woman who works for whatever department handles the inquiries into the possible missing Americans. For some odd reason I remember this number. If anyone who has called into whatever authorities about knowing of anyone they might think could have been caught in this tragedy finds out any information on the people they have inquired about, they are supposed to call this number. Calling this number will help them get what I think was twenty thousand phone calls immediately after the major news of the tsunami, down to the four to five thousand they are still working on. They are supposedly going to try and match any type of records the different countries might have on American visitors to the list of names that are being called in by friends and relatives.

It does appear that other countries are doing a better job at getting names out of people missing, but I don't know about all the different ways countries go about keeping track of travelers. I have no idea what's going on.

It's all so unimaginable.

[daleo]

40. If people don't start showing up in about a week, there is a good chance

They are dead. At least that is what I heard on some report or another. It may well be that thousands of Americans were killed, and the Bush administration hasn't figured out how to deal with this. As others have pointed out:

- It makes 911 look less like the greatest tragedy in history, and therefore less useful as propaganda to get people whipped into war frenzy.

- It makes the question of what did the government and military know about this earthquake and tsunami, when did they know it, and what did they do with that knowledge suddenly more relevant to Americans.

- With thousands of Americans involved, lawsuits against multi-national corporations become a distinct probability (e.g. tourist resorts). They want to get their ducks in a row about that as well.

- It also makes Bush's slow response look worse, now that it isn't just a matter of compassion to foreigners, but Americans too.

[rainbow4321]

44. The numbers come out now since chimp is back

Kinda hard to excuse his vacationing when announcing there are 5,000 missing <possibly dead> Americans...easier for people to accept his not being around when they see it as an Asian and European problem. Now that it is Monday we see him having his joint news conference, Frist announces HE will be going over there, brother Jeb and Powell are headed there...all nicely orchestrated now that shrub is done vacationing.

[nomatrix]

47. I might have pooh-poohed this too but listening to

Randi Rhodes today about the areas hit by the tsunami being resort complexes. Didn't want to upset the tourists with Tidal Wave.

Excellent image on Epicenter of the Earthquake with wave height expected.
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=14962

Colombo SriLanka

http://www.srilanka.com/travel/travellisting/TC00007

Spreadsheet of Hotels Closed in SriLanka
http://www.contactsrilanka.org/Hotelslatest31122004.xls

Megathrust Earthquake with Tsunami animation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake

Why wouldn't Americans be vacationing there during the Christmas holidays?

Edited to add additional link

[aneerkoinos]

49. msnbc

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6782014/

[rodeodance]

50. CNN had a brief story this afternoon about this also. State Dept person

was on and said that if relatives or friends have heard from the missiong (gave 5,000 number) to please contact the State dept.

[aneerkoinos]

51. Slow

It seems US is now where Nordic countries were week ago.

[Zech Marquis]

53. ABC just showed this

one American family was looking for a missing daughter--I assume the whole family wasin the region on vacation--and sadly they found her at alocal morge, on video :-( extremely heartbreaking...

at the very least, they found her..but so many from many nations are still mising :-( ...

[Bethany Rockafella]

54. Why would Americans travel as far as Phucket Island, Thailand

for nice beaches? From what I've seen on the videos, their beach water isn't as nice as the ones in Mexico and the caribbean.

[Solly Mack]

56. What's your point exactly?

[aneerkoinos]

60. Beach

Have you seen the movie, Beach? The film location (Ko Phi Phi) is on the West Coast of Thailand, affected by the Tsunami.

[MaineDem]

67. Are you joking?

I can't tell.

I'm with Solly...what's your point? Traveling to an exotic location is a fantastic thing to do. Experience different cultures, different locales. In fact, a few of the people I know who have been on vacation in Thailand were there on Uncle Sam's nickle back in the 60s. Loved the people, loved the country, and were anxious to visit now that these resorts were springing up.

And I've been to Mexico and the Caribbean. Why not go somewhere different?

Edited to add: PS. Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Jesus H. Christ]

71. Why read complicated books?

Children's books have nice pictures to look at.

[mbperrin]

55. Here's someone with info about embassy officials:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/29/tsunami.diver/
From the middle of the article:
At the airport in Bangkok, other governments had set up booths to greet nationals who had been affected and to help repatriate them, she said.

That was not the case with the U.S. government, Wachs told her mother. It took the couple three hours, she said, to find the officials from the American consulate, who were in the VIP lounge.

Because they had lost all their possessions, including their documentation, they had to have new passports issued.

But the U.S. officials demanded payment to take the passport pictures, Helen Wachs said.

The couple had managed to hold on to their ATM card, so they paid for the photos and helped other Americans who did not have any money get their pictures taken and buy food, Helen Wachs said.

"She was really very surprised" that the government did so little to ease their ordeal, she said. (more)

[Carni]

65. This is exactly the kind of incompetence I am talking about

If intrigue and conspiracy surrounds bush co it's because they create it with stunts like this one.

How inept are these people?

Everything this admin touches seems to end up in some sort of debacle.