War tests recruiters' pitch ("I had a mom laugh at me and hang up")

[Rose Siding]

FAIRFAX, Va. -- Staff Sgt. Patrick McClung reached for the phone in his impeccably squared-away office and heard an anxious father on the other end demanding to know why a Marine recruiter had cold-called his home, asking about his teenager.

To McClung it was clear the parent didn't appreciate the inquiry, insisting his child wasn't interested. So the sergeant tried appeasement: "Would you mind if I get their name and their number so we can go ahead and scrub them off our list so we don't have to contact them again, sir? All right, sir."

After the call, McClung, a 27-year-old redhead who stands 6-foot-5 and is a top Marine recruiter, shrugged.

"This morning I had a mom laugh at me and hang up the phone," he said.
...
With U.S. casualties rising in Iraq and the ongoing commitment of troops to Afghanistan, many young people and parents who once might have been willing to hear a recruiter's pitch are now much less inclined, recruiters say.
...
Charles Moskos, Northwestern University professor emeritus and a leading military sociologist, said that besides enlisting more high school dropouts, the Army likely would rely more on private contractors to do jobs for which there aren't enough soldiers, such as transportation.

Also, "we're going to recruit more foreigners," Moskos said, adding that he understood that 3 percent of the American troops in Iraq are not U.S. citizens. He expects that percentage to rise.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0501040304jan04,1,4743817.story?coll=chi-news-hed

[trotsky]

1. 3 percent are NOT citizens?!?!

That's terrible. Anyone willing to sign up for our army should be given instant citizenship.

[Supersedeas]

5. Well, they do call them "American" troops...and the percentage will grow.

When will the MSM call them mercenaries, I wonder?

Labels....silly labels.

[BeHereNow]

8. Naw...

They are participants in the Bush "guest worker" program.
Doing jobs Americans don't want to do or know about.
The "Special Skills" call up can't be far behind.
BHN

[damntexdem]

58. Well, think of the precedents, especially ...

Britains use of German mercenaries in the Revolutionary War. Well, OK, that was the other side. But still, it was in support of empire -- and that's how the U.S. will employ troops so long as the Bushistas rule.

[WoodrowFan]

81. it's been done for a long time

I don't know if the policy has been in continual use but since sometime in the midpoint of the 19th Century it was one way to become a US citizen, serve in the military and when your tour was up you were a citizen. That doesn't mean that this is a good plicy now for Iraq but just that there is precident.


On a side note, there was a touching story about the Unknown Soldier from World War I. When his coffin was being transported in 1921 from a grave in France to the US Navy ship for its trip to Washington, the US troops in the honor guard were shocked to see an old man in a Union Civil War uniform standing at the docks saluting. He was a Frenchman who had opposed slavery so as a young man during the US Civil War he came to the US and enlisted for the North. After the War he was offered US citizenship when it was done, but he went back home to France. A lot of men gained their citizenship that way.

[Radio_free_america]

6. No bush should prefer

withdraw citizenship to americans who don't want go at war ...

[durablend]

7. Can't do that--he'd be first to be deported

Along with most of the rest of his cabinet :evilgrin:

[genieroze]

10. That should be most of the Republicans then, problem solved. eom

[No Exit]

13. Then you'd better get down there and sign up

... wouldn't want to lose your citizenship and miss being a citizen of the Bush regime, would you?

[Radio_free_america]

18. I'm french

If I sign for bush's war he will loose...
Hum hum Preharps it's a good idea :)

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Radio_free_america]

27. Hum hum

Sorry for my misspelling.
"masculine identity" ? "Nuke the bastards!" ?

I was ironical.
Sorry again for my poor English.

[BeHereNow]

29. Welcome to DU Radio Free

And don't worry about your English.
I assure you it's is FAR better than
my French!
:hi:

[Radio_free_america]

31. Thank you

I read your forum for few days. A really nice place.
I'm glad to see that being French isn't a case for systematic attack in USA.
In all other forum I went, French Bashing is praticed as a sport :)

I hope I finally find the good place to speek freely.

Sorry for my ironical mistake, I think I used the wrong verd :)

[progressiveBadger]

41. French bashing as a sport you say?

That site wouldn't have happened to be freerepublic would it? They were created to be the anti-DU. Glad you are here instead!

[trogdor]

66. Actually, DU is the anti-FreeRepublic

FR dates back to about 1998 or so.

[progressiveBadger]

67. Really?

I was always told the opposite. Interesting. Funny that FreeRepublic has the crappiest message board system I've ever seen since they've been around for 6 years. Too bad for them. :)

[Radio_free_america]

69. How to say ? Wonderfull is the word

Really happy to see that not all USA have turned saddly mad :)

So is it possible to speak about climate change ? conflict beween rich North and poor south ? How give a new form to transatlantic relationship ? How to preserve democracies from corporate fascim ?
And more sensible threats ?

Without any references to French cowardry during WW2 ? :)

[WoodrowFan]

82. FR is older

FR is older, the DU was founded during the 2000 recount fiasco.

[Bouncy Ball]

45. Hey there

welcome to DU.

Not all of us hate the French. They never did anything to me!

[Radio_free_america]

75. Surelly you never have a love afair with a french girl/boy :)

Without jokes, I'm daily reading USA press since I have a web access and i'm quite affraid by what I see.

On other forum I was banned just because I'm French with no other reasons.
I have never see a so irrational and strong hatred.

Execpt because of some US relation in France I begining to think that all USA have turned "racist" again my culture.

Glad to see it's not true :)

[Midlodemocrat]

46. Welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

[liberalhistorian]

55. Sorry about the French bashing.

People like to say that if it weren't for the USA, France would be speaking German right now. But if it weren't for France, the USA wouldn't even be a country because they saved our ass in our revolution. So I say we're even! People just don't know their history anymore.

And welcome to DU!

[Radio_free_america]

76. Thank a lot

Democracy are our common valor, history learn us that we haven't the right to forget it :)

[rocktivity]

40. "Sarcastic" is the word, Radio_free

and this is the sarcastic sign: :eyes:

WELCOME TO DU!!!

:hi:
rocknation

[peacebird]

48. hi radio_free_america!

your english is fine!
and your irony was appreciated, at least by me - welcome to DU!

:hug:

[Maat]

51. Thanks for Lady Liberty!

We love France (hope to visit there someday - my hubby got to go on business)!

Here, on DU, you will find a home.

Many of us were against the Iraqi War Resolution, and against the beating of the war drums from the beginning. But, as you can see, we really have this Administration under control ..

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeHereNow]

26. Um...No Exit...

You are breaking DU rules
accusing Radio Free of being a Freeper.
If you are concerned about this poster,
you are to notify the Mods, not attack
them on a thread.
I am not sure why you think this person is
a Freep...
BHN

[No Exit]

28. Okay, sorry, I'll stop.

He just made me mad. He sounded like one to me. Sorry.

[leftchick]

34. then the awol asshole should be first to go!

he has proven how myuch he hates his country in time of war.

[No Exit]

35. Darn right!! He wants to be a crusader, let's see

him lead the charge! And I want to see Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Perle, and little BILL KRISTOL riding their white horses right behind him. (All of whom have, of course, impeccable military records.)

[d_b]

79. What would happen to all those silly Republipussies?

[MADem]

12. All you need is a green card, mon!

This is not new. We've been doing it for DECADES. You do have to be a legal, green carded resident.

It used to be very difficult for those serving to actually gain citizenship, because of all the paperwork and the residency issues, which were harder if a service person was shipped overseas for a tour. They've truncated the process so you can do it in three years or so if you are motivated.

There are some service personnel who really don't want to become citizens--rare, but they do exist. They have a green card because they came in legally, either as adults or with their parents, they join because they want the paycheck, and they have an idea that they'll go back to their home of record after twenty years with a retirement check every month that will enable them to live like a king, relatively speaking. No doubt the war is reducing this type of recruit...

[Solly Mack]

39. People can join from other countries and after a given amount of time

they become citizens. That time has been reduced since Iraq began.

They are full-fledged soldiers that go through basic and AIT like anyone else that joins.

They come from all over.

It's been that way for a lot of years.

It's the same as taking advantage of people in America who are poor or who need money for education....foreign nationals want American citizenship so badly they'll join in hopes of surviving America's endless wars.

[Canuckistanian]

50. Actually, I'd question their mental health

...or their political stance.

[tandot]

54. I think they'll get citizenship once they've served

That is a big incentive to get them into the Army.

[democracyindanger]

56. That's why they sign up

They get it when they finish their tours.

[Just Me]

60. Well, I suppose that explains Bush's immigration policy, then. eom

[Charles19]

61. Friend of mine actually got deported while serving in the U.S.

military in the gulf war.

They cleared it up and gave him citizenship but it surprised me this happens too.

[SouthernDem2004]

78. Um, you sure about that?

[Walt Starr]

2. I read that on the train to work this morning

Said that regular Army recruiting mubers for FY 2004 were met, but that they were left with half the delayed entry recruits they normally have. The Guard also is woefully behind on their numbers and those from the regular Army who had completed their service have dropped dramatically.

[Florida_Geek]

38. They pulled almost all the delayed entry for 2005 into 2004

They are going to have a bad year.

[LynnTheDem]

3. US hiring TERRORISTS. That's the "foreigners" he speaks of.

Columbian paramilitaries. Listed as TERRORISTS on the US Terrorist List.

America has not learned one damn fucking thing.

[BeHereNow]

11. "Guest Workers"

That's what the Shrub prefers to call them.
They are only terrorists when it is convenient
to invade and occupy a country.
When they are available to help postpone a draft,
they are "Guest Workers."
See how that works?
BHN

[No Exit]

14. Why wouldn't we hire terrorist? We've got one for a leader n/t

[LynnTheDem]

15. Hmmmm...

Damn good point.

[No Exit]

53. Thanks, and I'm tired of living in "terror"! n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. "I have an idea, Caesar. We can recruit barbarians to defent

the northern frontier against the rest of the barbarians. Bribe them with Roman citizenship."

It worked so well back then.

[calimary]

20. Sheesh - look at that. Game. Set. Match.

I've often wondered when OUR "empire" would collapse. All the big ones have, from the Babylonians (and farther back) to the Egyptians to the Huns to the Greeks and Romans to the Spaniards to the British to the USSR. Genghis Khan to Alexander to the Holy Roman Empire. They all had their glory days and their decline. We're no different. We're just next in line. Maybe the PNACers thought they could hold that off by sheer aggression and landgrabs before anybody really woke up and stopped 'em.

[Kinkistyle]

37. General Cornwallis: The answer to our problem is HESSIANS!

We'll station them at Valley Forge on Xmas.

[BrightKnight]

65. The British simply blamed the Hessians the war went badly. -n/t

[Xipe Totec]

42. LOL!

Yea, then the Chiperor can tell Moqtada al-Sadr:

"Hey, tell your foreign mercenaries to stop shooting at our foreign mercenaries!"

[WoodrowFan]

83. Actually it did

Actually it did work for quite a long time. Of course it helped preserve an EMPIRE while the republic died, but hey, details, details.

[Vinnie From Indy]

9. Nothing A Few More Years of Outsourcing Won't Cure

If BushCo. enterprise continues to encourage outsourcing and if they are able to continue to spend us into financial ruin, there should be plenty of poor desperate folks willing to dodge bullets for a meal soon. In essence, the multi-national corporations will have hordes of folks in the US available to fight for them as the rape and pillage the planet. These corporations don't give a crap about America or Americans. It about the Benjamins baby!

Also, the parallels between the decline of the Roman Empire and US are becoming more striking each passing year.

[BeHereNow]

19. You got that right Vin!

The destruction of the economy and social
programs will eliminate the need for a draft.
The hordes of displaced Americans will be
joining the military in order to keep a roof over their
heads and three square Halliburton meals a day.
The plan is deliberate and insidious and as Thomas
Frank points out, the sheeple have actually voted for
their own destruction.
Multi national corporations see NO
distinction between Americans and global cannon fodder.
We are all the same to them- means to THEIR end.
BHN

[NNN0LHI]

16. $100 bucks says that mom who laughed and hung up was a Republican n/t

[Supersedeas]

22. Chickenhawk Republicans are loud and proud

[gratuitous]

17. Being a vulture is a tough job

There's no shame in quitting a profession that has become dishonorable.

[Godspeed_4usDems]

25. If you join the military as a foreigner

you can get your citizenship much faster. When I was in it was a big deal to the filipinos.

[KingChicken]

24. Hire outsiders, just like Rome...

By the end the Roman armies were so full of Gallic, Germanic, and all kinds of other foreigners that they became untrustworthy. I wonder if we can manage to screw up the armed services like Rome did to her armies 2,000 years ago.

[Ed C. Finley]

30. I spent 23 years in the army, active and reserve

My wife retired with 20 years active duty. I have a 15 year old daughter who has expressed some interest in the military, but unless the army is used to protect this country first by patrolling the borders I will do all I can to talk her out of it.

Going to fight in the mideast to make the region safe for israel is not my idea of preserving our national security.

The miltary is an honorable profession, to bad its been corrupted, first by clinton and his balkan adventures then bush baby and his neo-con dual citizen israel first team.

There should be some resignation at the higher ranks, that is if they had any integrity.

[bemildred]

32. I agree with you, Sir.

And I thank you for your testimony and your service.

But I would suggest that the corruption brought about by
the government's fascination with foreign adventures goes
a good deal farther back than the 1990s.

[BeHereNow]

33. Welcome to DU Ed-

And I agree completely with your thinking.
The military has indeed been corrupted and
hijacked by the multi national corporate
war profiteers.
IF they cared a bit about this country or our
interests as citizens, the postioning of our troops
would look QUITE different.
Our border security is a JOKE.
Thanks for your service to our country,
back when it was our country.
BHN

[No Exit]

36. You are so right, and

I did notice in the above article, one of the recruiter's proteges, a young man named Khan, said he felt it was his duty to defend America. Fine, I thought--but since WHEN was our unilateral attack on Iraq DEFENSE??

[HockeyMom]

43. Leave No Child Behind Act

If a kid is under 18, the parents can sign a DO NOT CALL form, thanks to a suit brought by a group in NY. The schools are supposed to TELL parents about this, but I suspect many DON'T (RED STATES?). If the student is OVER 18, a parent can do NOTHING.

My daughter turned 18 as a Senior in HS 3 years ago, and RIGHT AFTER her 18th birthday, the Military called. She politely told the recruiter that she was not interested and that she was going to college. It seems they have a QUOTA for each HS, and our local high school DID NOT MEET THAT QUOTA (only 2 out of class of 600+). End of story? NO. The recruiter would NOT take no thanks for an answer. He keep calling, "did you change your mind?", and calling, and calling. My daughter was afraid to answer the phone. She told me she felt as if she was being STALKED. If they did this to a GIRL, imagine what they were doing to the BOYS?

I told her she HAD to put in no uncertain terms. If she had to get outright NASTY with him, then do it. She finaly told him to "SHOVE IT", literally. See, Teresa wasn't the FIRST and certainly won't be the last WOMAN to say that. It works when it HAS TO.

[oneold1-4u]

52. Two years manditory

Quite likely the draft will be in effect before July, but in any case there are plans for all 18-26 year olds (females included) to serve a 2 year hitch! They will start with the high end and work down to the youngest. It will be, that those who have any education or experience may want to enlist before their names come up, because draftees get first consideration for the front!
Please don't consider that there will be any imunity by saying "no" over a phone. These people from other countries are joining because it is a better thing for them, but on the other hand, young people who move into other countries will receive some protections from the US machine just as they did durring VN.
You can find a site(don't remember how) that is already recruiting persons for five member local draft boards. It is called volunteer but those serving do receive pay.
The pay might be lucrative if you know the "right" names to reject!

[Bouncy Ball]

44. Yeah, I love that line about

"do you mind if I get their name and number so I can scrub them off our list?" Yeah, if you already HAVE their name and number on your frigging list, why do I have to GIVE it to you?

We saw the Marine recruiters do that in F 9/11, too.

People shouldn't fall for that.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[keopeli]

49. Great idea!!! Let's outsource the Military!!!

"we're going to recruit more foreigners,"

We're finally becoming a global community.

[yellowcanine]

"we're going to recruit more foreigners," Mexican jobs program?

George Bush is going to take us full circle - right back to George III and the Hessians.

[damntexdem]

57. But if the U.S. outsources the U.S. military to India, do you think ...

that Pakistan might get a bit concerned?

But if we outsource to China, then Taiwan might pitch a fit -- maybe even Japan.

Well, I guess there's always Poland.

;-)

[yorgatron]

59. recruiters are scum

plain and simple :mad:

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Solon]

74. Recuiters are similar to Telemarketers in some aspects...

but they are only doing there job after all. I have no problem with the military setting up recuiting booths in schools. I have no problem with them handing out brochures or having recuiting offices. But that should be the limit. I remember my first year in College, and we had a recuiter, he followed me around, from class to class, ALL fricken day. He knew my name, I had no clue where the fuck he got it at. He would call the house at least once a week, I don't know how many times I said, "I'm not interested thank you." Hell I told him once that I would never make it in boot camp, I would flush out or whatever they do when you don't make it, so what's the point. He told me that because of my skills(don't ask me how he knows, I don't know either) that I wouldn't go into boot camp, and that I would be placed into Military Intelligence(insert joke here). That HAS to be a lie, he was an Army recuiter, I knew that he was lying, and called him on it. I finally told him to fuck off. Saying NO once should be enough.

There was also the time when I was working at Wal-Mart in L+G outside in the "corral" i.e. parking lot. These two USMC recuiters come up to me and my friends, we were all busy stacking potting soil and stuff. Anyways, we were friendly, we thought they were simply customers, till they came out with the brochures, and started with the "talk". It was funny, there were 4 of us out there, around the ages of 17-24, one of us was a former USMC, he simply told the guys to leave the property before he calls the police, no soliciting. These types of intrusive tactics DO NOT WORK on most people, it is a HUGE turn off to most people around that age. Some recuiters are good, I haven't met any that are, but I'm sure some are out there, but many are bad as well.

[Emboldened Chimp]

62. Foreign citizens fighting for us? Man, we ARE the New Roman Empire

The Romans did the same thing later in their history, which, of course, contributed to their eventual downfall---loyalty to the Emperor was much harder to maintain.

[Jacobin]

63. The Union Army resorted to German mercenaries

during the Civil War, which was not a popular war at all, especially in the middle of it.

Rich folks could buy their way out openly and legally

Wars are godawful fucked up things and should only be resorted to when there is absolutely no choice.

Unfortunately, Murkins just love a good war...as long as the poor folks or foreigners are getting blown up and dying.

[BrightKnight]

68. An American foreign legion is not a bad idea.

They could combine language and citizenship classes with military training. The citizenship classes would need to be taught by non- partisan civilians and not repug officers. Career service could be encouraged. This might be a more dignified approach.

[kodi]

70. 18-20 year olds convicted of non-violent crimes will get jail or army time

happened all the time in the 60's-70's. i had more than one friend in danger of being convicted for dealing weed or stealing a car be offered a choice: a couple of years in state prison or 3 years in the army. every single one enlisted and went to viet nam instead of going to jail.

the same shit will start happening in enough cases that the media will begin to report it.

[KansDem]

71. The GOP trashed American war heroes McCain, Celland, and Kerry...

So, why wouldn't ANY American parent want his/her child to fight for Bush Family interests and be subjected to ridicule by the GOP when he/she returns home?

Maybe Republicans should have thought about the consequences of their actions...???

F*CK YOU, GOP!!! :mad:

[No Exit]

80. Republicans: The anti-veteran party

To your post, I say, RIGHT ON!

And I've said this a hundred times, but I'll say it again: 1)John McCain ran against George W. Bush, and we found out he "never really served". 2)Al Gore ran against George W. Bush, and we found out he "never really served". 3)John Kerry ran against George W. Bush, and we found out he "never really served".

If General Patton were to spring back to life, and run against George W. Bush, we'd find out HE "never really served", either.

HellOOOOOO? Does anyone sense a PATTERN here?? Either George W. Bush is the greatest military hero who ever lived, with a record which causes EVERYONE else's to pale by comparison, or.... or Bush's party is scared to death of real veterans, hates them, and wants to crush them at every opportunity b/c it knows darn well Bush DID NOT SERVE his country, fair and square, while in the military.

[lovuian]

73. This Iraq War is going to weaken the US Army terribly

What has Bush done to the defenses of this country???

Like Michael Moore says How will they trust us again???

[Ilsa]

77. They should be required to cross-reference their call list

with the local GOP list. Since the GOPers think they are so patriotic, I'm sure they won't have a problem with signing their spawn over to the Marine Corp.