Mexico offers illegal immigrants tips on how to cross US border

[emad]

Times
By Tim Reid


THE Mexican Government is distributing more than one million comic books containing advice and safety tips to immigrants who hope to slip across the United States border illegally.

The 32-page Guide for the Mexican Migrant has angered anti-immigrant groups in the US, who claim that it is little more than a DIY manual on how to sneak into America.

The Mexican Government says that the guide, which advises migrants to carry enough water, to follow railway lines and to avoid wearing heavy clothing when crossing rivers, is to stop them from dying. In recent years, the number of Mexicans who die trying to cross the border — often from thirst in the desert, from drowning, or by suffocation in the back of lorries — has been increasing. About 400 immigrants died along the border in 2003, a 10 per cent increase on the figure for 2002.

Both the US and Mexican governments admit that the death toll must be reduced. Last month President Bush repeated his pledge to reform the immigration system, calling the death toll along the Mexican border unacceptable.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,172-1426249,00.html

MAYBE FIDEL CASTRO can follow up with a guide to exiting Guantanamo???

[eleonora]

1. if it were up to anti-immigration groups

barbwire and armed snipers would await mexicans at the border, oh yeah, and a Fox camera too for its latest reality show.

[AlbizuX]

35. hey...that sounds like a great George Carlin idea

send it to him...we could put that on payperview...

hell...make it more interesting...give both sides pitchforks...and see who wins, Mexicans or American ranchers...

i'm putting my bet on the Mexicans....they do make good boxers...

[sam sarrha]

2. I am from Texas, my friends tell me that they advertise on TV to go here

and send the money they make back to their families in Mexico..

one guy told me they organize work crews for contracted jobs and bus them all up together.. he said that once he got on a government bus and it took them a couple of days later ,at night, into a fenced compound with watch towers. it turned out to be a marijuana farm and they were slave labor, he met people that had been in there for 2 years with no pay.. he said he escaped and came north. he said they have a slogan in Spanish that means "California is MINE".. i had heard that in the late 60's... well it seems they have it pretty much taken back now..

presently 10% of the population of Mexico has migrated to the united states for work. Mexico is the 8th wealthiest country in the world, it is 8th... France is 9th. Mexico has a divided social structure.. the "have it alls" and the peasants. by exporting their poverty they have made themselves immensely wealthy... and 20,000,000 migrants do take American jobs. and drive up the cost of available housing.. if you dont live where there are thousands of migrants standing along the side of the road where the Americans pick them up to do day labor for sub minimum wage... you soon will be. i have lived where the Mexican gangs moved in and they closed the city parks, it wasn't safe to be outside walking.. i had a friend knifed by an immigrant gang member as he just walked by him. within 5 or 6 years 80% of the locals had moved out, i had relatives that their beds on the floor and had 4'X 8' sheets of steel attached to the walls around them and the living room walls because of drive by shootings.

i am not trying to stigmatize all immigrants, but this does happen and where it does the police are helpless to do anything about it.

in Atlanta the county is building an Illegal Immigrant employment center to get the crowds of Mexicans off the street. at the cost of over a million dollars. about 3500 show up there every month.. the Boarder Patrol does not even stop them any more nor do the police.. if they accidental do find out they are illegal they just let them go.. there is no boarder .. by dis-funding the boarder agencies and police they in effect just opened them up

[Bridget Burke]

4. I'm from Texas, too.

And we've got a lot of lying, racist creeps here. You've made a lot of serious charges. Please back them up with something better than "one guy told me"....

Oh, and it's "border", not "boarder".

[Shadder]

6. I live in NE Atlanta surburbs

How many photos would you like me to post. How about I walk next door and take a photo of the driveway and street full of pick up trucks that are dirven by the 20 or so men that live in the 3 bedroom house. Or would you like me to go over to the apartment complex on the other side of town that we lived in before here where they build shelfing on every inch of wall space to sleep on? Want photos of the Hispanic gangs that deface every fence and wall they can find? Yeah the poster did make a lot of serious charges. The problem is that I see them all taking place in my neighborhood every single day.

The Mexican border is a serious problem and it's not going to go away by ignoring it. It's only going to get worse. It's long past time to take some action and put a stop to this.

[depakid]

17. So what would you suggest?

Immigration involves a very complex set of policy considerations- and it's an area that's notorious for producing unintended consequences and ironies- as with Operation Gatekeeper in the early 90's.

Moreover, my suspicion is that the problems in your neighborhood stem from poverty- the indiginous kind- and not from undocumented workers and their families.

The solution on both fronts is education, family planning and the creation of sustainable industry and communities- on both sides of the border.

Unfortunately, those concepts are anathema to Republicans- and all too many Democrats.

[pschoeb]

10. Your information is largely BS or inflamatory anecdote

Just to put one of your many infactual points in persepctive. Mexico is ranked 14th in the World in raw GDP whereas, France is Ranked sixth. Obviously Mexico has a much larger population(106 Million) than France(59 million) so even comparing raw GDP's is silly. France is ranked roughly 14th in GDP/per person whereas Mexico is ranked 43rd. The US is number 1 in raw GDP, and roughly 4th in GDP/per person.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

13. The Almighty Maddox's take on this:

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart

[barb162]

3. The illegal immigration is driving wages downward in this country

and costing social services millions of dollars. I think we should be penalizing employers BIGTIME who hire illegals and beefing up security on the borders.

[Gyre]

12. But that would 'punish' the top earning non-taxpayers

You know, the chimps buddies. Better chance of an ice-cube sandwich in hell under this cabal of immoral thugs.

Gyre

[Red State Rebel]

14. I agree - this summer we had our roof replaced

I remember when being a roofer was a good union job that you could support a family with. Our roof was replaced in 1 day by team of Hispanic people - only one spoke English. This is Missouri, not a border town. I was really suprised and I'd bet the house that they weren't union and weren't making close to a union wage.

[deminflorida]

5. Immigration is going to happen....period. Cutting down the H2B

Visa (non-technical) to around 66,000 only encourages more illegal immigration. (That's the current Bush Administration's attempt to curb it).

I'm in Florida, I drive around all the time and all the houses I seeing being re-built are being re-built by Mexicans or other Central or South Americans. Does anyone here really believe they are all legal? They are sitting on all the hurricane damaged blue roofed homes everywhere you look.

Would the work get done down here without them? I don't think so. I'm not climbing my ass up on one of those roofs and work all day, and possibly fall off. Any other takers for work like this here on DU?

(Crickets Chirping)....

Immigration has been a part of America before America WAS America. Immigration is what made America - AMERICA.

Every nation in the world contends with it. Go to Italy, they have the same problem with North Africans, and Albanians.....It used to be Pols, Czechs, and Russians when the wall came down... (still is Russians). I know I married one of the Pols, and I once help sneak my Ukrainian housekeeper back into Europe because her Mom was sick and she had to go home.

These poor people are here for Economic reasons. Does anybody really think they would prefer to remain here under the current fascist state of affairs. Give them another two more years, after Bush is finished totally destroying the American dollar and they will go home.

By then allot of US may have to go back with them or to other places like Europe.

[readmylips]

7. All houses and city roads built in Arizona are done by Mexicans....

Arizona doesn't have real permit building laws. Just the contractor needs to have a license. All workers the contractor hires, don't need to have any time of experience, license, read or write. Mexicans are gathered at street corners and taken to the building sights, payed $6.00 an hour. Mexicans do damn good work at slave salary, and the state nor those powerful building lobby's, nor those powerful farmers, nor george bush will stop illegal migration. Illegal migration equals the bottom line in this capitalistic nation.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

9. Exactly

How many people who complain about illegal immigration are going to be willing to pay $7/pound for fresh produce (and I'm talking corn, tomatoes, and strawberries, not the hoity-toity stuff at Whole Foods)? Or pay twice as much for a house? Because that's what will happen if we suddenly had to pay $5.15/hour for the work that these immigrants provide.

[barb162]

21. Illegal immigrants aren't paying federal, state, etc., income

taxes. But are they using the schools, county hospital ER rooms, etc. What other country allows this kind of crap to go on?

[deminflorida]

28. Italy.... I know I used to live there....

also France and England. How are you going to stop it. Tell children they are not going to school, do you think it's their fault they're here?

How about leaving a person to die outside an operating room. Does that suit you.

[barb162]

31. Oh come on! No of course you don't refuse treatment. What I have

very clearly said in other posts here is that you fine the living hell out of employers who hire illegals so that they will never want to hire an illegal again and so then there is no reason for the illegals to come here in the first place. As far as the children, what's wrong with them being educated in their own countries again? We are subsidizing the educations and far more of people who are here illegally and who aren't paying taxes. They can get educations, pay taxes and reside in their own countries.

[genieroze]

15. Give them another two more years

after Bush is finished totally destroying the American dollar and they will go home.
Maybe I'll go with them. lol

[barb162]

18. Italy doesn't have a few million illegals coming in a yr driving

their wages down. Yeah, and immigration is what made America. But we can't support another few million people coming in every damn year working at below minimum wage driving down the wages of people in this country. Between that and the manufacturing and services we are shipping to other countries,mostly Asia, American workers will be making a buck an hour soon. If this keeps up and we don't start having fair trade and protectionism, we are done as a country. Total economic collapse. No more Social Security, Medicare, social services, etc. We will be living in huts and tents.

[phusion]

8. If it's going to happen anyway...

You might as well make sure people know what they're in for.

Too many die in the desert every year. I am glad the Mexican government is doing something...

Here in Albuquerque we accept immigrants and live along with them. It's a way of life around here. The Mexican culture blends with American culture...It's a unique situation. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Americans need to get over their hangup about immigrants. We are a country of immigrants.

They're not all from Mexico, either. Many immigrants come from South American countries.

[MADem]

11. The Chimp LOVES illegal immigration

It's only the "dangerous" things, like gay marriage, choice, and separation of church and state, that trouble him. He's not going to hit this issue head on, he likes his old pal Vicente Fox. And Vicente has told him that the situation isn't changing unless there are lots of changes made in economic relationships and border issues. He NEEDS Vicente, just to show them Canadians that they aren't the automatic "favorite neighbor." Like any neighbor currently is fighting for the distinction!!!!

With the Patriot Act and all of the other abrogations he champions, you think he couldn't take this on if he had a mind to? Sure he could....but then, where would his rich pals find their gardeners, child minders, and so on?

Of course, all actions have consequences, some of them unintended. They say children grow up to want to marry someone like their primary parental figures. It'll be interesting to see these children of the elites looking for a man like Pedro the pool boy, or a woman like Rosaria the housekeeper, till death do they part, in the years ahead. Quite frankly, it will be good for the country to get some parents with a work ethic to influence the subsequent generation of privileged little bastards.

I swear, that's why Jeb married Columba. Hell, she couldn't speak ONE WORD of ingles when they said their vows, and he even converted to catholicism to win his bride--and his parents were BULLSHIT, but he told them to pound sand, this was his true love. Wonder which loving, caring Mexican lady he spent his lonely childhood days with, to make such an impression? And unlike "taco y cerveza" Jorge, Jeb REALLY CAN SPEAK SPANISH. I can readily criticize the FL gov on a number of fronts, but his language ability is first rank.

[Placebo]

16. Ugh. When are we going to WAKE THE FUCK UP...

and start enforcing our borders like we give a damn??? :grr:

[barb162]

19. looks like never, huh?

[depakid]

20. I offer you the same question as I offered the poster above

what specific policy steps would you suggest and why?

Simply stating the same shallow party line about "getting serious about enforcing our borders" or some derivation thereof is no solution- it's just an emotionally loaded, enthocentric and typically American attitude.

[barb162]

22. actually, enforcing and beefing up border security would do

wonders. Also, fine the hell out of employers who hire illegals. You know the drug laws where they confiscate personal and real property of drug dealers? Do something similar with employers who hire illegals and I predict the illegal hiring stops in about, oh, an hour or two. Also, no free education for children of illegals, no driver's licenses for illegals, etc.

What I see going on in this country is an anti-American worker adminstration that is trying to break the back of the American worker, the American middle class, American unions, etc. through many means, including allowing illegals in to do their work at "cheap" wages.

I don't agree with your statement about "emotionally loaded, enthocentric and typically American attitude."

[mockingbich]

23. Democrats should DESTROY bush with this issue

I'm a freeper and a lurker here at DU.... Love this forum... I find I agree with ya'll a lot.

Anyhow, If you want to take down bush push the immigration issue. The Republican party will split apart.

My republican friends & family hate this president and will side with the democrats to get immigration laws enforced. Fiscal conservatives are sick of paying high taxes for services provided all of these illegals. The neocons are outsourcing jobs to foreign countries while simultaneously insourcing jobs to illegal criminal workers. This must end!

Illegal Immigration = Corporate Slave Trade

[barb162]

24. if you and your friends and family "hate this president" did

you and they vote for him?

[mockingbich]

25. Yes - many voted for Bush cuz of terrorism

I managed to get 5 of my closest buddies to vote 3rd party. Seriously, I turned 5 people (pat myself on the back)How can shrub claim to be tough on terrorists when ANYBODY can just stroll over the border. I don't have to feel guilty for putting this diabolical maniac back in office.

Anyways, my friend's and family aren't the issue. Illegal immigration is the issue. And the democrats could easily destroy Bush.

[barb162]

26. But don't you think the Republicans in Congress march

lockstep with Bush on everything? At least they have been.

As a side issue, do you by any chance watch Lou Dobbs on MSNBC? I consider him a fiscal realist who is very concerned by the things you mentioned in your first post, that is, shipping jobs to other countries and allowing millions of illegals to come here. The porous borders problem. In any case he did have on a Republican in Congress who was outraged by a law Bush was trying to push through that would give Social Security to illegals because it would break the Social Security system fast.

[mockingbich]

27. Republicans in House will turn on Bush

Lou Dobbs is a great guy - Very balanced reporter and non-partisan

There are new Republican senators that just got in office and disagree with Bush on this issue. Thune is a good example. The House WILL turn on Bush. YOu got a preview of it 2 weeks ago when Rep. Tancredo and 70 other GOP held up the intelligence bill. That was a "shot over the bow" to let shrub know he can't count on them to rubber stamp his legislation.

Best way to understand the grassroots turning against Bush would be to listen to talk radio. Callers are starting to attack Rush and Hannity because of illegal immigration. The "tow the line" attitude is disappearing. Bush has worn out his welcome. Even die hard hawks are getting pissed at him for screwing up Iraq. Nobody can understand why he left the borders WIDE OPEN after 9-11. Corporate profit has to be the motive. Even the knee-jerk republicans are starting to figure this out.

Bush is worried about impeachment. Why do you think he keeps getting his picture taken with Bill Clinton??? If the Dems move to impeach then immigrant reform republicans will back them up.

Trust me - immigration will take this President DOWN! Let's hit him with it and hit hard!

[apple_ridge]

29. It certainly shows an interesting side of the Republican

thought process where they don't care if their president lies to them in order to start an illegal war, cut veterans benefits, cut combat pay, veteran housing allowances, medical care, ad infinitum and meanwhile gives everything away to the top 1%, but when it comes to letting foreigners in they draw a line in the sand. Morons.

[barb162]

30. Actually how about giving the person the benefit of the doubt.

The poster only has 3 posts and you and I have no idea how he or she feels about the issues you mentioned. Also I don't think most people have a problem with foreigners legally coming here. It is the unrestricted ILLEGAL foreigners that is the issue.

[Disturbed]

34. Illegal Immigrant labor....

is good for Capitalist Corps. That is why the laws on the books have not been enforced as they should and could be and the borders have not been gaurded properly. Bush Junta plan is to decimate the Middle Class, destroy Unions and turn Amerika back to the late 1800's.

[barb162]

40. you got that straight! n/t

[barb162]

33. impeachment in regard to what? (although I can think of a few dozen

lies)

[Jesus H. Christ]

32. Good for them.

Imagine, a country that looks after the health of its citizens.

[mockingbich]

36. Look - I'm trying to explain to ya'll that Illegal immigration is

Bush's achilles heel. If you want to split up the Republican party this is how to do it. Whining all day about ohio vote counts, guantanamo bay, etc don't win the democrat leadership any allies and only serve to reinforce the idea that they are a bunch of elitist crybaby sissies...

Bush's ONLY ONLY strong point is the war on Terror. Again, how can he be strong against terrorism when the borders are wide open.

The terrorists are attacking us assymetrically. It is called 4rth generation warfare. 3rd generation warfare was war between sovereign nations with standing professional armies.. OUr pentagon is set up for a 3rd generation war. The pentagon cannot win a 4rth generation war. Asymmetrical terrorist warriors expoit our NON-existent border policy to infiltrate and prepare to attack the country.

IRaq is failing because it is being fought as a 3rd generation war. Think about it...Bush is always saying "regime change" etc. He is looking at the enemy as a series of nation states that must be toppled. REmember the "Axis of Evil?" Everybody at DU understands this only creates MORE enemies

These enemies cannot fight our 3rd generation army because they have no army. BUT they can exploit our open border policy and attack us from within.

Open border policy is national suicide in a war against terror. Republicans are concerned about security. The argument I have just made will sway die-hard republicans against the president.

The illegal immigration debate is about taxes, social services, demographics, etc. But the achilles heel IS SECURITY. BUsh's ONLY strong point is security. GET IT!!!

If democratic leadership would reach out to understand the conservatives who want security. Then they could destroy this president.

Why wouldn't the president close the borders and enforce the law? Any conservative will tell you that it's because of profit motive. But that same conservative will tell you that profit wasn't the motive for the iraq war. This blatant contradiction must be expoited by the Democratic party if they ever hope to regain power in a time of war.

[barb162]

37. Excellent post. But another question

The shrub's strong point with many people is the seemingly "strong" stance on the war on terror. Lots of voters feel they know where he stands on the issue. But as you also mention the open borders are a total screwup on his part. I agree.

I have never figured out why so many voters have never figured out this simple point, that is, he talks a certain game (being strong on security, fighting terror) and he has totally failed protecting the country (leaving the wide open borders). (And I won't get going here on his creating more anti-American feeling,terrorists by his Iraq war.)

I see his vulnerability here, you see it, how is it that an obviously large percentage of voters CAN'T see it.

Thanks for posting on DU

[Samurai_Writer]

38. What if I want to cross the Mexican border?

Would that work the other way around too? I'm looking for a new country to live in, and Mexico is close. And my Spanish is not too awful.

[barb162]

39. There was a poster who lived in Mexico who had to get out of her

house fast as somebody was "taking control" of it. She said foreign (she is a US citizen) property owners there have just about zero rights. This was about 3 months ago and I have no recollection of the poster's name but she had to get out of town fast, like 2 days.