Odd Couple Gibson, Moore Exchange Praise

[kskiska]

PASADENA, Calif. - Mel Gibson (news) and Michael Moore have been used as shorthand for cultural and political divisions among Americans, but how do the filmmakers feel about each other? Cue the Hollywood ending — it's hugs all around.

"I saw the film. I liked it," Gibson told AP Radio Sunday at the 31st Annual People's Choice Awards, countering the contention that "Fahrenheit 9/11" fans and "The Passion of the Christ" enthusiasts are mutually exclusive groups.

Moore's critique of President Bush (news - web sites)'s policies since the Sept. 11 attacks and Gibson's film about Jesus Christ's final hours were huge hits at the box office in 2004, and both won People's Choice awards Sunday. "Fahrenheit 9/11" was named favorite movie and "The Passion of the Christ" was the favorite drama.

"I feel a kind of strange kinship with Michael," Gibson said. I mean, they're trying to pit us against each other in the press, but this is all just a hologram, you know. They've really got nothing to do with one another. They were used as some kind of divisive left-right thing."

more…
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=493&ncid=790&e=1&u=/ap/20050110/ap_en_mo/people_moore_gibson

[Name removed]

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[shadowknows69]

19. if anything

I liked his emphasis on Jesus more peaceful teachings.

[0007]

33. Holy Moses! The freepers will be jumping out of their skins over

that comment by Mel baby.

[Leilani]

40. Mel also slammed the Iraq War

Said: "What are we doing there?"

He was pretty angry.

[rabbit2484]

44. The reason he grew up in Australia

was that his father didn't want Mel or his brother/s to get drafted and go to Vietnam. So they left the states and moved there. I believe I read that somewhere, not sure it's true.

[Leilani]

45. I read that too.

EOM

[0007]

51. I'm starting to like Mel again.

[Selwynn]

77. Kind of fickle, aren't ya?

:)

[Just Me]

54. Wasn't that spectacular!!! Why did we go, why are we still there?

I LMAO when he said that 'cause I just knew all his movie-viewers would simply sink and go "huh?"

[UltraDem]

83. LMAO, too!!

Yeah, I'm sure all the freepers are scurrying around like scared little rabbits when Mel said that, screaming, "oh my god!!! Did Mel really say that?!?!?!" RFLMAO!!!! Too, too, funny!!!

Still RFLMAO!!!!

[ZanZaBar]

81. *grin* silly freepers are now suffering from paranoia..

To: nopardons
Either that, or some creep over in DUmmyland has posted a link directly to this thread. I've observed the pattern before in that cesspool: a DUmmie will post a link to something here at FR, and before you know it they're crawling out of the woodwork over here, with same day sign-ups and obvious troll nics.

Whatever the case, they've certainly been crawling all over this thread tonight!
324 posted on 01/10/2005 9:46:16 PM PST by A Jovial Cad

[Arkana]

87. They're like rats in a maze

It's so funny.

[bluestateguy]

2. I'm going to rent "passion of the Christ" soon

I will watch the movie before saying anything critical about it. I bet you half or more of these conservatives attackers of F 9/11 probably never saw it.

[onenote]

3. i bet its more like 90 percent

of the RWers that criticized F911 that never saw it...

onenote

[UCLA Dem]

27. of course, they like to do that about things.

[Lorien]

5. I'm sure it's a beautifully filmed movie

but I have problems with the gorefest/ anti-Semitic aspect of the film. If it were a movie about the teachings of Christ rather than his torture , then I would have lined up to see it. Gibson's movies have always had sick fixation on torture and suffering. Hell, the guy tortures and kills calves on his ranch for "relaxation", according to former co-stars.

On edit; I just read the whole article, and I like Moore's quote:
Moore said he saw Gibson's film twice, and even took his father to see it.

"I thought it was a powerful piece of filmmaking," Moore told AP Radio Sunday. "I'm a practicing Catholic, and you know I think Mel and I may be from different wings of the Catholic Church. My film might have been called 'The Compassion of the Christ.'"

(snip)

Exactly!

[Journeyman]

21. The finest criticism of "The Passion" that I read was penned. . .

80 years ago by G. Bernard Shaw in his play, St. Joan, when he had the title character, Joan of Arc, declaim,

"Must Christ be crucified anew in every generation for those with little imagination?"


(In disclosure, I never saw Gibson's flick because I didn't need to see it. . . anyone who truly read the accounts of Christ's crucifixion has no need to see it on film; it should be etched indelibly in the imagination.)

[Kurovski]

37. Going through the stations of the cross

before Easter is part of being Catholic.

privately contemplating the passion each year for many years, reading of each step of the persecution, suffering and sorrow, I've never had an interest in seeing the film.

Look on the walls of a Catholic church, they are represented.

I learned that the purpose was to look inward and contemplate the suffering and persecution we allow, or bring into the world through our own actions, or inaction.

The ultimate purpose was to make ammends, to assist in alleviating suffering. To vow that Christ will not have died in vain and express solemn gratitude that Christ gave up his life in showing us a new way to live here on earth, a way that would bring the spiritual within the reach of every person.

Many people throughout history have walked very closely on that path since. Almost never by choice do they give up their lives but, just as in Christ's time, by the persecution of the powers that be.

[420inTN]

60. I didn't find any anti-semitism in the Passion.

Many of the jewish people in the movie were against the trial of Jesus. However, a FEW of the pharisees (religious leaders) where against Jesus, held a kangaroo court (which they populated with their own mob and "witnesses"), and condemned Jesus. It was done late at night, and very quickly.

Hmmm... one can easily see parallels with SOME of today's political (and religious) leaders.

In my opinion, the only one's who are likely to find anti-semitism in the Passion are:
1) Those who are anti-semitic already.
2) Those who are overly sensitive and will see any jewish person cast in a negative light as anti-semitic.
3) Those who are anti-christian.

just my $.02.

edit: P.S. It is a very gory movie.

[Megawatt]

90. I didn't see any anti-semitism in the movie either

And I take the note the hysterical predictions of violence and Pogroms against Jews which many of the critics of the film predicted for America, never came to pass. I also never noted any apologies from such erroneous predictors for having so little faith in Americans.

[Donailin]

58. I saw it and I was a very big promoter of it

for about six months before it was released. I loved and own Jesus of Nazereth, the best "Jesus " movie made. I was most interested in the POTC because I think Mel is a good filmaker and the trailers were breathtaking in my opinion. I also thought the The Last Temptation of Christ was brilliant, made me appreciate the Man on the cross all the more.

That being said, the Passion of the Christ was too brutal, it was stunningly brutal and did not reinforce my faith, it just made me long for more scenes without brutality. I know the how, I wanted the why. There's not enough of the why -- why was he so radical? Because God is radical and offensive to our sensibilities: love your enemies? give to the poor? Be not anxious? Forgive one another? Turn the other cheek???All radical concepts to the average human whose instinct is to worry, keep what you have, strive to have more and hate those that work against your best interests.

We need more of radical nature of Christ. The violence we have enough of, and Christ's only participation in the violence was to allow it (turn the other cheek) in order to overcome it (violence cannot beget violence if you don't participate in it).
my two cents

[Divine Discontent]

72. most excellent opinions D! :) N/T

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

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[Tempest]

4. The freepers have turned on Gibson

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1317840/posts


Those people are too funny.

[shadowknows69]

6. gibson did a backstage interview

where he said he was completely against the war. what a christian saying he's against death? to be fair I don't think it was anti-war so much as, and I'm paraphrasing, "no one has shown me one good reason why we went to iraq, what were doing in iraq or when were getting out of iraq." anyone else hear this?

[Kurovski]

10. I heard Gibson questioning

some of the things the Bush administration was doing nearly a year ago . It was on WGN in Chicago.

While he was vague at the time, perhaps you saw an interview where he articulated his thoughts more forcefully.

I know you were joking, but I just want to point out what we all know;
the war-crazy cult of extremist Right-Wing Christians do not represent all Christians anymore than extremist Muslims represent all Muslims. :-)

[shadowknows69]

17. actually I think I heard it on drudge last night

my wife inexplically listens to it when she goes to bed. i check her daily for signs of demonic posession lol. I used to be a christian myself. some of my best friends are real christians. my mom is the world's best real christian...hi mom.

[Rockerdem]

30. Beware of this temporary Hollywood lovefest

The thing that garners respect in that town is money. How do you think Heston managed to operate congenially for so many years? Characters from both sides will always strain to find weasel words to blur the edges. After all, they are pros and actors, just like most of the mealy mouth politicians who compromise their souls on a regular basis.

Sorry, take with grain of salt.

[BrainRants]

8. Funny, isn't Gibson part of the Hollywood Elite?

Along with Gropenator, Fred Thompson, Fred "Gopher" Grandy, Clint Eastwood, Ben Stein, Ron Silver, Sonny Bono and the soon to be sainted Charlton Heston and the recently sainted Ronald Reagan?

Then there's Stephen Baldwin, Pat Boone, Kevin Costner, Kelsey Grammer, Don Johnson, Chuck Norris, Sylvester Stallone, Dennis Hopper (really) all of whom have brought us some of the best moral values movies of our time (Well Pat Boone did at least)

How can they even *think* of supporting these people!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

12. Don Johnson?

Mr. Money Launderer? LOL!

Christ, that guy used to stick half the output of Peru up his nose.

[shadowknows69]

18. yes but he fought against it on tv

so it balances his universe }(

[saracat]

36. Kevin Costner donated hughly to the Dems!

[Leilani]

46. One of Gibson's closest friends in Hollywood is Danny Glover.

Did you ever hear them talk about each other?

[rockedthevoteinMA]

65. Kevin Costner was on Bill Maher right around the election

and he had so much to say, and was so intelligent about it. He certainly isn't right wing. If anything he is Independent or Green (so it seemed to me, and those I watched with).

[MajorFlaw]

69. Uh, I believe Sonny Bono has been "sainted" also.

n/t

[GiovanniC]

9. I Learn Something New Every Day

Today, I learned that liberals don't support Christianity and are not pro-family. Huh.

[BrainRants]

26. Don't forget we're baby eaters too! n/t

[Donailin]

61. I read that too

just goes to show the level of ignorance we're up against.

[AlCzervik]

11. jeebus, yes they have!

[Supersedeas]

34. Freepers throwing baby Jesus out with the Rovian water. No surprise to me

[Fuzz]

22. Now that is funny

lmao

[0007]

52. First time in a long that I've visited the dudgeon.

Think I'll sing a song! Cuz, I'm so happy that those morans are pissed and perplexed over Mel Gibson.

[Just Me]

62. Maybe, they don't really KNOW what "conservative" means.

Maybe, they are being "fascist" and don't even know it.

Maybe, they are that percentage of the population easily manipulated via psy-ops.

Poor buggars. :cry:

[WatchWhatISay]

67. Who cares

what they think?

[NurseLefty]

70. Wow, thank you, I've finally popped my FR cherry!

I read the first 50 or so responses on this thread. OMG freepers are dumb/nuts/evil!
They're having a major cow that Saint Mel has expressed affection for Satan Moore!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7

[caraher]

73. thanks for the freeper link

A favorite line:

"Yes he suckered a ton of people around here with that and also with his acting like a military man on movies. Some people have a hard time discerning a real uniform from a costume."

Can you say, "Mission Accomplished?"

[Laurab]

76. C'mon, did they really say "discerning"?

I didn't think they knew big words like that over there...

[UltraDem]

84. OMG! It's not like he started marching at Gay Pride!!!

It is just so ludicrious that the minute anybody diverges one tiny bit from their view, no matter how minute, suddenly they're the enemy!! I mean, all Mel said was that he was "unsure" about the war.

I just think this fanatical "you either agree with 100% or YOU'RE A STINKING PILE OF SHIT" mentality has got to stop. It is so scary, don't you think? RFLMAO!!!!!

[LisaM]

7. LOL, good, now I can like "Braveheart" again!

Phew.

Actually, we were discussing this this morning - I've never ventured an opinion on the passion, because I haven't seen it - so I plan to watch it sometime soon.

[arikara]

14. Shades of grey on Mel

I haven't seen his Jesus movie either and don't plan to. Torture, blood and gore makes me sick no matter what the subject matter. I would no sooner want to watch Jesus be tortured as the unfortunates in Abu Ghraib.

I've enjoyed some of Mel's work but I've heard some stuff about him too regarding his treatment of women.

[brook]

57. The truth.

I worked with Mel for six months. I never saw or heard him show any disrespectful or mysoginistic bits of 'attitude' toward me, Robin (his wife), his daughters or any other female. Quite the opposite.

Re another 'accepted' Gibson fable -that his father moved the family to Australia to avoid his sons being drafted - I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe Mel was about 9 at the time. That aside, his father's family was in Australia.

Don't know his politics, but IATSE members were campaigning for a better contract at the time - and he was supportive.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

66. Thank you for that info...

It's hard to tell which reports are real and which are tabloid crap. :toast:

[RaleighNCDUer]

74. His being 9 doesn't necessarily counter 'avoiding vietnam'.

When I was 9, in '63, my mother started worrying about me and guess what? When I turned 18 VN was still going full tilt boogie.

Just saying...

[Cooley Hurd]

13. Mad Max and Mad Mike!!!

:freepersheadsexploding::thumbsup:

[unpossibles]

15. hahaha.. where do they come up with these comedy goldmines?

"Besides liberals are not pro-life or pro family or do they support Christianity."

HAHAHAHA.... Those people are not really serious over there are they? Come on. No one actually thinks like that. Someone please let me in on the joke. Please. I know so many liberals who do not fit any of their definitions. Probably as many that do not as do. I know some tree-huggers, but also some gun owners, some military types, some folks of every religion (including Christianity, which should surprise no one), etc. Maybe because we try to respect the non-Christians we get lumped as anti-Christian by the black/white thinkers.

The Passion was a well made movie, but really gory (and I like scary movies). I agree a movie about Christ's teachings would have been better (and had better timing too). It's not a bad movie though, but gets really long and uncomfortable.

[Kurovski]

23. It's all part of supporting the meme

that liberals are divorced from basic human concerns.

This is clearly a lie, as liberals have worked for family-freindly legislation for decades.

Headstart, family leave, Social Security, Child labor laws, etc,.

EDIT: I think Gibson is planning another film on Christ's life. I'm not sure if that's a rumor.

[shawn703]

25. I do think there was a place for this kind of movie about Christ

I am a politically liberal, yet religously fundamentalist person (and no I don't suffer from multiple personality disorder). If we focus on only His teachings, we miss out on the price He paid for the gift of salvation, and how much love He had to have for us to go through what He did.

I really liked the movie, and I guess I'm at a loss at why we liberals painted it as anti-Semetic. The Jews weren't the only people who sent Him to the cross - even if you ignore the larger abstract argument that everybody's sins put Him on the cross and focus on what is portrayed in the movie. The Romans and His followers also abandoned Him to the cross - not to mention that His ultimate purpose as Christ was to be the perfect sacrifice.

[shawn703]

16. I bet this burns O'Reilly's and Hannity's ass

Those two couldn't stop going on and on about the movie before it came out.

[Windy]

35. Mel was on Hannity once when I unfortunately ran across his show

on the radio. Mel very clearly said that he was not in Bush's corner. Hannity was taken aback and none too pleased. I'm sure that he was NEVER brought back on his show.

[UltraDem]

85. oh, don't doubt it for a minute!!

I'm sure they're having complete meltdowns and even holding emergency meetings as we speak!! RFLMAO!!!!

[FredScuttle]

20. Very gracious of Mel

n/t

[LibertyLover]

24. Gibson

I heard a sound bite this morning on the radio in which Mel Gibson said that no one had explained to him why we had gone to war in Iraq and he thought it was wrong. He also said that he had seen F9/11 and it had raised powerful questions. As another poster said - oh good, now I can watch Braveheart again.

[UCLA Dem]

28. I like the way he says they're trying to "pit us against eachother"

I think it is a divisive binary that conservatives have used to demonize liberals and to create fear. "Oh their on the left, they're evil, they're not one of us."

All this hate is pointless, we can work together and live together without giving up or own values. What burns me most is that many of these divisive people claim to be Christians. Have the read any of the teachings of Jesus Christ lately?? Yeah he was real narrow minded and divisive.

Pardon my rant.

[Vidar]

29. Glad to hear this about Gibson.

[tjdee]

31. I KNEW it, and I'm glad everyone else knows it too.

Mel Gibson is a decent, if very conservative, man.

He's not a dummy, and he has a modicum of talent, which are two things which should have clued everyone in that he wasn't a Bushbot.

[Renew Deal]

42. It just proves one thing.

that Christians aren't automatically Republican. More proof??? I am "Christian."

[tjdee]

59. Me too...not Republican even a little bit. nt

[unpossibles]

32. Another nugget of wisdumb

"Nevermind Michael Moore saying our troops deserve their deaths because the terrorists in Iraq are the equivilent to our minutemen during the Revolutionary War."

hmm. I saw F9/11 twice and I do not recall him saying the troops deserve to die. Ever.

[Kurovski]

39. What context was this in?

The sentence is somewhat convoluted, and could mean more than one thing, depending on its context.

[unpossibles]

63. it's so hard to tell over there

and I do not think that is because they are smarter....

The poster was complaining about the usual - how can anyone who supports Michael Moore be conservative, because Moore in F9/11 said the troops deserve to die, blah blah some more "frogic" and vitriol

[Kurovski]

64. I gotcha.

Thanks.

[Kurovski]

38. I'm nominating this for front page

because it is the very opposite of the myth of the Red-Blue divide that the press and the powers-that-be try to tear us apart over.

[Rockerdem]

47. Dont get too starry eyed

This is exactly like Ted Kennedy palling around with Orrin Hatch. The elites look at it as a game because they have the money to do so.

[Kurovski]

49. Oh, I'm still a cynic.

But I know the myth of the cultural split in this nation, and if Gibson and Moore want to point it out, I believe it to be worthy of attention.

I'll jump him if and when there's a betrayal. ;-)

[UltraDem]

86. Oh God, I get so sick and tired of that stupid...

county-by-county red-blue map. I swear, I'll slap the next freeper that brings it up. My brother-in-law actually brought one over for Christmas Holidays. I could've just killed him. Instead, all I could do was go home early and just cry.

[Renew Deal]

41. I saw both.

They are probably the two best movies that I saw last year. Meet the Fockers is up there too. I don't care about the Jesus stuff. The movie itself is very powerful and a good watch.

[Leilani]

43. Moore & Gibson respect each other, because they're both

brilliant film makers.

Their subjects may be different, but they recognize each other's talents.

When everyone was slamming Mel, I defended him as an artist. He put up his own money, & made for him what was a labor of love.

I didn't go to see the movie, but I respect his right to freely express his artistic vision.

[PopSixSquish]

48. Back When "We Were Soldiers Once" Came Out

I saw Gibson interviewed on some show where he came right out and said "I bet they know exactly where OBL is and will pull him out at the appropriate time" (words to that effect)which was the last sound bite of the interview.

Both the news anchor and the interviewer afterward were aghast that Mel had said such a thing, I mean really, who would have thought it?
:crazy:

We Were Soldiers Once and Young isn't exaclty a rah-rah pro-war movie.

[w4rma]

50. Gibson almost funded F911. I've been saying that Gibson is no Repuke.

Look at his other movies. He does NOT trust, at *all*, the creeps running the Republican Party. If he came out and said that he was a Democrat I would not at all be surprised.

One can be pro-life and support anti-abortion policy through social programs instead of oppressive laws with oppressive penalties. And Catholics are traditionally Democrats. Fundamentalist Xians think Catholics (along with every other non-fundamentalist Christian religion and all non-Christian religions and philosophies) are Satan spawn.

[DrZeeLit]

53. Yes. FundaMental do not consider Catholics as Christian. Said to me

so many times, especially when I taught World History.
They are painfully ignorant of the history of Christianity.

They will take the "votes"of the very conservative Catholics, but never expect them to like it. Remember, conservative Baptists used to carry little cards to remember how to act if they ever met a Catholic.

Although I'm a collapsed RC, it was always "you worship statues," and worse. As a kid, it was hard to take. As an adult, it's just sad that this continues. Not to mention what they say about all the "other" religions -- oops, according to them, NOT religions: cults and worse.

NO, the FundaMentals will never be cozy with RCs, because RCs aren't goin' UP in the Rapture.

[Kurovski]

55. The fact that there is such a wide assumption

of what Gibson's politics are because he created a film about Jesus--an assumption on the part of both Republicans and Democrats alike--is the whole point.

The nation is not so clearly red and blue. I think that it's a nasty concept lifted right out of the Civil War era's "The blue and the gray". It's designed to force us to chose up sides, and to view neighbors as enemies, when in fact we have more that unites us then divides us.

The enemy would be those who wish to create a dishonest divide for political purposes.

[LanternWaste]

56. Failure to separate the artist from his body of work is simply absurd!

Wrote this in response to another thread re: this topic as it's something I feel strongly about.

Without reading the posts on this particular thread, I'm going to assume that a few indiiduals will suddenly believe that "Gibson's one of us, now! I'm gonna see the film now! I't ain't all that bad like I've been sayin'...!"

<snip>

I think this perfectly advertises (and I believe many of us at DU are guilty of this same thing) that failure to separate the artist from his body of work is simply absurd!

Am I supposed to deny previously given admiration for a painting because I suddenly find out his politics are different from mine?

Am I now supposed to find a piece of music that I've loved for so long a "cheap bit of tripe" because his religion is different from mine?

I think that Gore Vidal is a master word-smith. One of the most incredibly thought-provoking voices of the late 20th century. Yet, because he's further left than I am, I'm supposed to dismiss his work?

One poster here (app. one year ago) wrote that he loved C.S. Lewis' "Chronicles of Narnia". That is, until he found out Lewis wrote them as Christian Allegory. Now he hates the books.

Same thing after the death of Bob Hope was announced and it was reported he was a member of the G.O.P. Big friggin' deal! I still love his movies and laugh till snot comes out of my nose...

I suppose we are all guilty of this to one extent or another.

[Charlie Brown]

68. Here's Gibson's complete quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/11/nyregion/11bold.html?ex=1106110800&en=62bca46d5db99dbc&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1

"I feel a strange kinship with Michael," Mr. Gibson said. "They're trying to pit us against each other in the press, but it's a hologram. They really have got nothing to do with one another. It's just some kind of device, some left-right. He makes some salient points. There was some very expert, elliptical editing going on. However, what the hell are we doing in Iraq? No one can explain to me in a reasonable manner that I can accept why we're there, why we went there, and why we're still there."

[NVMojo]

71. also again ...Gibson is from the strict pre-Vatican II wing of the

Catholic Church and that influenced his movie. What is funny about it is that Protestants generally focus on the resurrection in their faith where Catholics have a real focus on the suffering and crucifiction of Christ. So this is more of a Catholic movie then your typical right wing fundie realizes. So the laugh is on them.

Mel Gibson is a decent man, always has been a decent man, and is probably the closest to a modern day John Wayne then anyone I've seen since he was alive ...

[GOPBasher]

75. That's cool of Gibson to say. nt

[keith the dem]

78. Great discussion about our place

Mel Gibson is a "conservative" man in the classic definition. Many of us may also be conservative in that we oppose drastic change in the social and environmental protections that have been put in place over the last 60 years. The BFEE is radical right wing and seeks drastic changes and under the dictionary definition cannot be called "conservative".

[mojojojo27]

79. hmm

hmm

[donheld]

82. Gibson's comments do a lot to restore my faith in him

maybe he's not a total waste.

[Blue_In_AK]

88. Media, once again

It seems to me that maybe the "animosity" between 9-11 lovers and "Passion" lovers may have been another feud created by the media.

[gorbal]

89. Yeah

Also the one between "Christians" and "Democrats".

This news story made me really happy. I always thought it would be great if they met. Two Catholics, outsiders in hollywood etc. It sort of helps to prick a pin into this bubble our media likes to pretend is reality.

[Learning2Fly]

91. Why the Freepers

would have ever thought Mel Gibson supported the Iraq War is beyond me. So anxious they were to offer up the antithesis to Michael Moore they completely disregarded Gibson is a practicing conservative Roman Catholic and the Pope has denounced this war. Dropping 500 lb. new and improved napalm bombs on people is hardly a position the church supports.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/121004_fallujah_napalmed.shtml

[Coltrane]

92. Moore and Gibson video

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/01/10.html#a1298 to see the PC awards and Gibson praise Moore.