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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:23 PM
Original message
Armstrong Williams: "There are others"
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 05:13 PM by NYCGirl
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html

"There are others"

The White House claims its at best unethical and at worst illegal deal with conservative commentator Armstrong Williams, which paid him $241,000 to tell people how much he hearts the No Child Left Behind Act, was an isolated incident. Mr. Williams, apparently, thinks otherwise.

In The Nation, David Corn describes his recent encounter with the embattled and ethically-challenged pundit in the Fox News green room: "And then Williams violated a PR rule: he got off-point. 'This happens all the time,' he told me. 'There are others.' Really? I said. Other conservative commentators accept money from the Bush administration? I asked Williams for names. "I'm not going to defend myself that way,' he said. The issue right now, he explained, was his own mistake. Well, I said, what if I call you up in a few weeks, after this blows over, and then ask you? No, he said. "

Williams may never name names -- and maybe he doesn't even know if other commentators are on the take promoting Bush administration policies. But Armstrong wasn't the only pundit in Washington over the weekend suggesting there could be more paid advertisers for Bush policies lurking on the sets of various talk shows. On Meet the Press yesterday, Al Hunt said -- in an alarmingly casual way -- that he suspects more cases of advertorial pundit-izing. "Listen, I'll tell you this," Hunt said. "I'll bet that there will be a great market for Freedom of Information requests in the next couple weeks because I suspect Armstrong Williams is not alone. There have been other people who've been doing this."

Let the FOIA'ing begin!

-- Geraldine Sealey


Edited to add:

Here's David Corn's article from The Nation referred to above.

http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3...

Excerpt:

Capital Games
Armstrong Williams: I Am Not Alone
01/10/2005 @ 12:10am

It was a rare moment of talk-show unanimity. On the set of the Fox News Washington bureau, host Tony Snow, fellow guest Linda Chavez (a conservative pundit), and I were slamming Armstrong Williams, a rightwing columnist and talk show host. USA Today had reported--as you probably know--that Williams had been paid nearly a quarter of a million dollars by the Bush administration to promote its No Child Left Behind education bill. And Williams, who supported the legislation in his column and as a cable news talking head, had not bothered to inform his audiences or the folks who book him at CNN, Fox, and MSNBC that he was a shill on the Bush payroll.

Snow was shaking his head at Williams' indiscretion, and Chavez was upset and joked that she had received bupkis from the White House. Prior to going on air, she had complained that ArmstrongGate had caused some people to assume that she and other conservative commentators were also riding this gravy train. Since the story broke on Friday, she said, several people had asked her how much she had received from the Bush administration. She was pissed at Williams for conduct that was raising questions about the whole cadre of rightwing pundits. During our non-debate on Williams, I noted that it was a waste of taxpayer money to pay Williams for supporting the Bush administration, which he seemed quite willing to do for free. And I wondered aloud how this contract had come to be.

After our segment finished, Chavez and I headed to the green room, and there he was: Armstrong Williams. He was waiting to go on air to defend himself. I've known him a long time; we've often sparred, in friendly fashion, on these shouting-head shows. I shook my head and said, "Armstrong, Armstrong, Armstrong...." He was quick with his main talking point: "It was bad judgment, Dave. Bad judgment." His phone rang. He answered it, said hello, and then told the person on the other end, "It was bad judgment. You know, just bad judgment." I was reminded that in addition to being a pundit, Williams, a leading African-American conservative and Clarence Thomas protege, is a PR specialist with his own firm. Not too long ago, Michael Jackson called him for advice. Now he had himself for a client, and, heeding conventional crisis-management strategy, he was practicing strict message discipline: bad judgment, bad judgment, bad judgment.

As we chatted, Chavez politely expressed her anger at Williams. This scandal, she noted, would provide ammunition to those who dismiss minority conservatives as race sellouts who have been bought off by the Republicans. (She is Mexican-American.) Williams absorbed her point, acting contrite.
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think the question has to be posed to every conservative pundit:
"Are you on the federal payroll?"

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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. No, it has to be phrased this way. . .
"Are you now, or have you ever been, a paid shill for BushCo?"
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
43. seems to me
that those reporters whose bosses have received phone calls from the white house complaining about the slant the reporter has taken with a story, one that slants away from making * look good, should be questioned more thoroughly about their incidents, too.

As far as I'm concerned, bullying the press into silence when they're onto something which the public should know about and paying the press to deliver only one side of an issue are equally egregious.

I certainly hope that FOIA will reveal the truth, but I'm not too terribly optomistic that the press will report on the truth. Bad habits are hard to break, after all.
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Jawja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #43
89. And when that
"one side" of the issue is a drumbeat to war set to a rhythm of LIES and now thousands of people are DEAD and the taxpayer is also footing THAT bill, something must be done to bring these paid "journalists" to account.

I believe this is a scandal for the ages if the truth could be known.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #89
133. 1 (800) 839 - 5276 - TOLL FREE to Capitol Hill Switchboard. CALL
this number. It's free. All you do is ask for somebody's office in the House and/or Senate. They transfer you immediately. That's all it takes. You name the person to whom you want to be connected, and they connect you. You can call YOUR reps, or anybody else's reps. FOR FREE.

I'd say let's put on the pressure!

If they think we don't care, they won't, either.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. Under oath.
The question should be posed while they are under oath.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
70. more on Williams
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=50a02d4fc3a51290e76060afc540efbf

excerpt:

Williams is a black conservative, and since his tenure as an aide to South Carolina Sen. Strom Thurmond, and later to Clarence Thomas before he became a U.S. Supreme Court justice, he has been a right-wing radio and TV media darling. He and other black conservatives are given free license to say and do whatever they please as long as they faithfully toe the conservative line. That means cheerleading Bush administration policies and bashing blacks, liberals, women's groups and gays. If they do their job well enough, in addition to getting frequent and top billing on talk shows they're guaranteed op-ed spots in mainstream dailies, they may land their own syndicated TV talk show as Williams did and they'll be showered with lucrative book deals and, it seems, dubious government contracts.

Conservatives desperately need blacks such as Williams to maintain the public pretense that black conservatives have real clout and a popular following in black communities. The black conservatives in turn parlay their media-created celebrity to corral other unsuspecting or willing black personalities and journalists into endorsing Bush policies, as Williams did on his talk show. They dangle the prospect that if they play ball, they too can fill their pockets with government goodies.

Their greatest value, though, is that they promote the myth that a big segment of blacks support Bush's policies. In the last election, Republicans spent millions on outreach efforts to African-American voters. They employed Williams, and a handful of other blacks, to loudly tout Bush policies. Yet, Bush got only a marginal bump-up in black support nationally.

...more...
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #70
108. Explain your sexual harassment suit, Armstong!
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 08:38 PM by The Zanti Regent
Click on the link and get enlightened about Armstrong...

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=536
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
86. What is even more troublesome is
how many "leftwing" liberal media "journalists are on the payroll.

When fixing a horse race you don't have to "juice" a bad horse to make him run faster and win, you can also accomplish your goal by drugging the fastest horse to make him slow down. They don't check the losers for drugs just the winners.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #86
113. Like who?
Pardon me if I'm skeptical of your claim.
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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
88. Not just the "pundits"
how about Judy WoofWoof, Blitzer, and the rest of the "news" media?
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. This should be followed
big time. Lots of exposures to come - CBS' error will be small to this and ambitious vultures waiting for said jobs will be spilling beans all over. Should be fun.
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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
61. I am at my blog
I'm keeping track of all the reports of this. If I knew how to use the FOIA, I would start doing that as well. I've always written but have no experience in being an "investigative journalist."

http://www.thecorrection.org/blog3/archives/2005/01/paying_to_get_t_1.php
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #61
94. How to file a FOIA request
How do I make a request?
To make a FOIA request, you should write a letter to (the appropriate agency) (see sample letter below). Mark the letter and the envelope, or the fax cover sheet, with "FOIA Request." Provide your phone number, mailing address, or fax number so we can contact you if we need more information. Identify the records that you want as specifically as possible to help us locate them. Any facts or details you can give about the time, place, authors, events, and subjects will be helpful in our search and in determining which records will respond to your request. You do not have to state the reasons for your request. Identify what agency, organization, or individuals you represent because this can make a difference in what fees, if any, you may be charged for the documents requested.

What fees or costs are involved?
The FOIA permits government agencies to charge fees for processing FOIA requests. Fees range from $10 to $20 per hour, depending on the personnel doing the work. The charge for copying documents is 20 cents per page. The Agency will notify you if the fees will be high, unless your request letter states your willingness to pay high fees. If fees are charged, you may request a waiver if you can show that the records, when disclosed to you, will contribute significantly to the public's understanding of the operations or activities of the government.

Fee Categories. For fee purposes, the FOIA requires that requesters be placed in one of the following four categories: 1) commercial use requesters; 2) news media; 3) educational institution, noncommercial scientific institution; and 4) all others. Commercial requesters are charged the full direct cost of search, review, and duplication. Scientific, educational, and news media requesters are charged the cost of duplication only; however, the first 100 pages are provided free of charge. All other requesters are charged the direct costs of search, review, and duplication, except that the first 2 hours of search and the first 100 pages of duplication are free of charge.

Fee Waivers. The FOIA permits agencies to waive fees if disclosure of the records is in the public interest for the following reasons: 1) it is likely to contribute significantly to public understanding of the operations and activities of the government; and 2) it is not primarily in the commercial interest of the requester. Requests for fee waivers must be fully documented and justified by written explanation when the request is submitted.

What happens with my request?
The FSIS FOIA office tracks incoming FOIA requests and works with FSIS offices that hold the requested records to retrieve them for the requestor. The assigned FOIA officer reviews the records page by page to determine which information can and cannot be released to the requestor. Handling of FOIA requests by a single staff in the Agency helps to ensure that requests are treated consistently and that the interests and rights of the requestors are properly addressed.

How long will it take to answer my request?
We are required to send you an answer within 20 working days of receiving your request. Our response might include all the materials you requested, a portion of your request with a listing of reasons why we withheld information, or a denial of all information. If denied, we will inform you of your appeal rights. If there is a delay in fulfilling your request within the 20-day time frame, we will notify you in writing about the delay.

How does the Privacy Act relate to the FOIA?
Under the Privacy Act, a person may seek access to records that are retrieved by that person's name or another personal identifier, such as social security number or date of birth. These records will be made available unless they fall within the exemptions of the Privacy Act or the FOIA. Generally, you cannot obtain copies of records concerning another person without the written permission of that person.

Sample FOIA Request Letter




Freedom of Information Act Officer
USDA, Food Safety and Inspection Service
Room 1140-South Building
1400 Independence Ave., SW
Washington, DC 20250

Dear FOIA Officer:

Under the Freedom of Information Act, I am requesting access to .

If there are any fees charged for searching or copying the records, please let me know before you fill my request.

If you deny any part of this request, please cite each specific reason that you think justifies your refusal to release the information. Please notify me of appeal procedures available under the law.

If you have any questions processing this request, you may contact me at the following telephone number: .

Sincerely,



from: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Frame/FrameRedirect.asp?main=http://www.fsis.usda.gov/FOIA/handbook.htm
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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #94
104. Sorry, should have been more specific
I wouldn't know what to make requests for is what I actually meant.

Thanks for the info though! ;)
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #104
110. oops, sorry!
In that case, speaking as someone who's had to respond to them before, the thing to remember is that the people processing them are just regular people, who - more than anything - probably are bummed that they have to do the research to answer one of them. Basically, we have file cabinets of all sorts of crap sorted in questionable ways, and even if we're good people and on your side, we dread having to respond to these.

So the more specific you are, and the more you can tie it to funding, the better answer you'll get, because we do keep records when it comes to money and/or contracts. My experience has been that the procurement guys are the best organized in that regard.

The easiest ones to answer (and therefore the quickest responses) will be ones going to specific offices. A request to the Department of the Army will get a quicker answer than a request to the Department of Defense. A request to the Program Manager of the Abrams System will get a quicker response than a request to the Department of the Army. For a while I was in the Bradley Office, and if a request came in, I could usually either answer it myself, or wander over to the PM's office and get him to give me an answer. But when I was at the command level, a request would have to be forwarded out to 20 offices, some would respond, some wouldn't, it gets lost in their day to day business, unfortunately - they are all rushing to meet deadlines, and a request from the public directly tends to get noticed quicker than a request from the security or public affairs weasels - they are viewed as kind of a beaurocratic pain in the ass, to be blunt. (And I've been on both ends of that, so I think it's okay for me to say it.)

If I wanted to know what propaganda money has gone out to PR folks, I'd ask individual departments (and possibly the procurement department, within that) about any expenditures that went to: ____________ (nongovernmental organizations? consultants? PR firms? You'd have to think about how to phrase that) during a particular timeframe. That would be a great start point, find out how much money they spent, and start looking at where it went.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #110
134. Absolutely. ALWAYS follow the money.
That is key. It was key during Watergate. It's key now.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. So does BushCo have any pull with the FOIA office?
Considering they've proven that they're above the law in every respect.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Weren't they the ones who said making copies would break
their computer?

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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm not too well-versed in this sort of thing, but
is this as unethical as it sounds?
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. you betcha!.................n/t
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. How could Willams report the downside of the program?
Also when he was screaming praise, there should have been words at the bottom of the screen that said Paid Political Announcement.

The unaware public was duped.

Yes, very unethical.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. good lord, dogfish
IT F***ING SUCKS; no reputable journalist would ever CONSIDER stooping so g.d. low. These are the people that are turning our media into what PRAVDA used to be.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
96. I've worked at places where you had to return freakin key chains
And other trinkets. Most places have a rule that you can accept things like gimme caps or a fruit basket at Xmas or whatever, with a value up to a certain amount, usually $25 or $50. There are exceptions. I used to review video games, so I got a lot of stuff for a few years, but it was a legitimate part of my job.

However, a quarter million bucks is RIGHT out. And calling it "advertising" is obscene.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #96
136. When I was at the AP, covering entertainment, there were all kinds
of inexpensive perks. But the studios seemed pretty well-versed in how much you can spend on freebies before you cross that line. And it WAS 25 dollars. So we'd get a T-shirt or beach towel, or cheap-o tote bag, or some little trinket. Or there's free food - such as a buffet table that's laid out when a bunch of critics or writers or reporters get together at some celeb gallery opening or meetings of the TV Critics Association or press junkets for some movie. Or there's a big table out in the lobby with lots of bottled water and sodas and stuff. But that was about it. There WAS, however, ONE exception - and frankly, I'm not sure if it really was an exception. I remember years ago - probably 10 - 12 - when everybody at the TV Critics Association meetings was given one of those Polaroid cameras that had the name of one of the new TV shows for the fall season printed on it. It wasn't a terribly good or fancy camera, probably came within the 25-dollar limit, but it did work.

BTW - guess which network?

Fox. (The regular Fox primetime network, not the Pox "news" channel.)
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. It means that rather than being an independent journalist
He was a paid advertiser. In other words, rather than the newspapers who bought Armstrong's opinions buying his opinions, they were buying the official party line of the Republican Party. Armstrong was under contract to not criticize something that it was his job to criticize.

Armstrong's a very minor player. You know they paid bigger fish than him. This is right in line with the Republicans buying off black preachers in Texas to dissuade black church-goers from supporting Ron Kirk a couple of years ago.

Nothing ever came of that, nothing much will come of this. A few more will be exposed, people will not care, and we can go back to being the former land of the free.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
40. In the 50's, a similar scandal added the word "payola" to our language.
This is far worse ... it's the surreptitious use of taxpayer dollars to pay for a partisan political advertisement, without telling that same public "I'm George Bush, and I paid for this opinion with your money."
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
55. yes
As and editor/publisher I would fire any reporter, columnist, or commentator who did what Armstrong did. It's a no-brainer.

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oecher3 Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
71. It is just sad... government inefficiency
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 11:50 PM by oecher3
...not only that he got caught and the Department of Education (and who else above instructed them to do so) obviously used unethical methods, but $241,000 could have been used so much better. With an nice salary of $40,000 annually, this money could have helped hiring 6 more teachers! What is the department's budget for PR that they can affort such a big payment and is there no auditor of their expenses that should have raised a red flag?
Now, the way this story sounds, this may not have been the only payment to promote laws. Tax payers' money wasted, that could have been used otherwise, unethical on top of that!
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
78. It's illegal. n/t
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oecher3 Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. Alright....
...maybe someone has answered this before, but why exactly is it illegal?
And if it is, how come he doesn't get called on it in the court of law? And don't come now with the argument that Williams is another Enron getway! Seriously, if it is illegal than why not bring him to justice?
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #82
105. Dissemination of propaganda.
"How come he doesn't get called on it in the court of law?"

I don't know, ask your attorney general or justice department.
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oecher3 Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #105
127. wrong, but illegal?
I have heard often enough now that it is illegal and I can understand that the Attorney General or justice department won't do anything against their own body, though technically the Attorney General is supposed to be independent, but that's a different discussion.

NOW, PLEASE, someone enlighten me as to why it is illegal. Wrong and unethical, yes, but I am sorry, I don't see the illegal part of it. He (Williams) did state his own opinion (whether that was his real opinion or something he was asked to express, again that is another question) and he took money. Whore would be appropriate, but criminal (although prostitution is illegal) ? So which law did he break?
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #127
128. It is unlawful for your GOVERNMENT to engage in covert propaganda.
Edited on Wed Jan-12-05 11:30 AM by Just Me
Per 31 U.S.C 1341 and 31 U.S.C. 1351 and 117 Stat. 11, 470.

There may be other prohibitions. I'm trying to locate those in my spare time.
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oecher3 Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #128
144. now we're talking...
well that is finally a start, now, please where would it be found, such law or regulation that makes it unlawful. Sorry, I am catching up with my legal knowhow and don't like to quote arguments that I feel I can't defend once people start asking, why?
Don't want to make an ass out of myself, when it comes to hot topics like that!
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #144
146. 117 Stat. 11, 470. Moreover, a pattern of covert propaganda is,...
,...evidence of fraud.

In other words, if this administration has intentionally engaged in deceptive actions in order to get people to give up rights/liberties/benefits/etc. that they would not otherwise have have given up,...that's evidence of fraud.

An average American citizen is prohibited from engaging in a pattern of deception for profit. Those holding high offices are held to a higher standard than an average citizen.

Evidence of a pattern of deception by this administration would be sufficiently egregious and outrageous as to constitute a clear abuse of their power and a violation of their oath to office. Their actions would constitute "high crimes and misdemeanors" which are impeachable offenses..
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oecher3 Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #146
148. Well done!
Edited on Wed Jan-12-05 07:22 PM by oecher3
Thanks... and good research.
So according to this Williams has acted criminally and deserves to be brought to justice (in front of a court, to be precise!)
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #105
132. I also wonder if the Zorinsky Amendment is applicable.
The Zorinsky amendment prohibits use of appropriated funds to influence public opinion in the United States; but, I'm not sure if that only applies to USIA or not.

I still believe there are other arguments which can be made concerning a conspiracy to intentionally deceive in violation of an oath of office,...something along those lines.
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oecher3 Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #132
145. this means illegal for USDeptEd not Williams?
So does this mean this was illegal by the Fed. Agency and or also Mr. Williams?
Could one himself be guilty of aiding to deceive the public and are there cases where people have been prosecute b/c of this? In other words, is there precedent?

Good work, so far, Just Me! Thanks!
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #145
147. If I had access to Westlaw, I could explore all this far, far more quickly
Edited on Wed Jan-12-05 06:37 PM by Just Me
But, I've been out of work for a very, long time and cannot afford to pay for access (also the local law library SUCKS *LOL*).

Fortunately, I will be starting a job soon. It's been a very tough three years,...very tough.

I do wonder if RICO could come into play. I just don't have enough at hand to really look at that.

I might add that there could be several possibilities of prosecution under state law. In these political times, the greatest chance of a,...well, let's say legal "revelation" is via prosecution by a state AG that has jurisdiction.
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Now we know where
Rush got all the Oxycontin.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. And where Bill Bennett got his gambling money.
.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. LOL......Mac
do you suppose these weasels report their propaganda money to the IRS?
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #31
79. Heh. Now there's an angle I'd like to see worked. n/t
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 12:58 AM by mountainvue
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
137. WHOA! I bet that's it! Pardon the pun...
I'd guess a whole LOT of them are. And remember, there are other, sneakier kinds of "currency" that are very likely here, too. Everything from book deals to maybe free cars, lines of credit, airline tickets, box seats or season tickets, and if you've got your people positioned in various banks and brokerage houses, well, there's someone who can hand-carry your "compensation" to whatever department or account (Swiss? The Cayman Islands? Bermuda?) or whatever name or entity is necessary. They already have people well-positioned in other ancillary places like foundations and think tanks and outfits where money can be supplied and/or laundered.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Williams may never name names..."
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 04:35 PM by KansDem
No doubt he'll invoke the...ahem..."confidentiality agreement" that exists between...ahem..."journalists" and their sources...

I thought I'd NEVER get this typed out without bursting out with laughter amid fits of hysteria...:7
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Scotty has already said Williams should have kept quiet
In other words, "Willaims STFU".
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
121. Scotty basically told the media to do the same....be 'objective'
Code for mind your back pocket.

Bushspeak rules.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. More likely, he'll be writing a book.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
49. He should know better than to say

that he is not the only one.

Does he think that they will protect him?
If so he is really dumb.

Of course his buddy Clarence will look after him - LOL

We need to stick on this story day and night. It goes to the heart of the media madness.

This could be like the Water Gate break in if we can find all the Bushola money that really belongs to US!
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Chef Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. Explains a lot
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 04:35 PM by Chef
You know, I could never figure out why so many news readers and pundents were so reluctant to be critical of our fearless leader. The PBS people even soft peddle and regurgitate the WH line. Now, we know. They weren't doing it because they wanted to party down with the power people, or even because they are lazy or wimps. They did it for money. The term "whore press" now really means something.
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Can't help but wonder what other entities' palms are being greased.
:wtf:

And some WH shill will pop up and twist it around and the lazy-assed masses will nod their heads and go on about their lives because it's easier to think this doesn't go on and that will be that.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wanna find out who isn't on the up and up?
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
138. Now THIS is a SENSATIONAL idea!
Edited on Wed Jan-12-05 02:49 PM by calimary
Always follow the money. Especially when there's a reversal of a contrary opinion. Good thinking!
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wonder how many times Novak will come up,
in that search!
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. OTHERS?????
:wtf:


I suppose I shouldn't be surprised


these people need to be rooted the hell OUT!!!!
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. How much do you think was doled out to turn brains off in the Iraq run up?
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. I wonder how much they're paying now to keep the questions soft
F***, what a bunch of ASSHOLES
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Absolutely, I share your total frustration too.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. how much in OUR TAX DOLLARS!!!!!!
can we say "investigation"????????


imagine the outrage had it been discovered that Clinton paid pundits to tout his health-care reform? They would have crucified the man
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. And watch: We won't.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. of course not, that would be 'divisive'
:grr: :mad:
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. And "helping the terrorists"
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. we need to 'heal'
and 'support the president'


I need to throw up :puke:
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
114. we should in a bipartisan manner....
BARF!!!!!!!!!!!
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #29
93. Tax dollars and Education dollars that 'conservatives' say is better spend
elsewhere. Hmmmmm, where are the conservatives with integrity?
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #93
98. "conservatives with integrity"????
good luck finding one... they only claim integrity when they are busting Dems
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. Now that's the $170 billion question, isn't it? n/t
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Whoa! Didn't the pentagon recently "misplace" a few trillion dollars?
Maybe that's not what you were getting at, but that just hit me like a ton of bricks. Lost money is probably really easy to distribute under the table.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. 2.3 trillion.
yes, TRILLION. And that's what they ADMIT TO.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #46
126. How the f**k does 2.3 TRILLION go missing?
:grr: That amount of money would sure fix the SS "problem" among other PROBLEMS that the Chimp has created! Well at least gays can't marry :eyes: and FReepers can keep their guns and pray to their GAWD! :argh:
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sure, Armstrong claims there are others
But declines to name any of them. Convenient. And how does Armstrong know there are other pundits and journos on the take? Do they have a monthly meeting or something?
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. the potential for others seems to be apparent if you go back to when
this story started gaining steam in October. My guess is that Mr. Williams was just one pundit who got an A+ in his ratings and USA Today didn't get an A+.



AP: Bush ads surface as TV news again, this time in education
By Ben Feller, The Associated Press
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration has promoted its education law with a video that comes across as a news story but fails to make clear the reporter involved was paid with taxpayer money.
The government used a similar approach this year in promoting the new Medicare law and drew a rebuke from the investigative arm of Congress, which found the videos amounted to propaganda in violation of federal law.

The Education Department also has paid for rankings of newspaper coverage of the No Child Left Behind law, a centerpiece of the president's domestic agenda. Points are awarded for stories that say President Bush and the Republican Party are strong on education, among other factors.

The news ratings also rank individual reporters on how they cover the law, based on the points system set up by Ketchum, a public relations firm hired by the government.


more ...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-10-10-bush-school-ad_x.htm
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
21. Do you suppose these people have been reporting this ...
income on their taxes? :think:
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. There are bound to be plenty more, who probably got more $
This fellow was not the most high profile pundit around, and the issue was not the most high profile issue around. If they paid him a quarter million for propaganda about education, imagine what they paid others for spreading propaganda about the war and (especially) the lead-up to the war. Same thing for tax cuts.
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I think I'm just about done with the media.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. wasn't it Andy Card who said "you don't roll out a new product
in August"?

Wonder how many they put on their (our) payroll in September 2002?
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
139. Uh-huh. And that is SALES talk. Rolling out a new product.
That means he's heard an awful lot of sales-pitch-type talk all around him at the office. Whatever the commodity is that they're trying to sell, whether it's a new car, cat chow, deodorant, or home loans, it's always "product." The average bloke who isn't into sales or marketing or opinion manipulation - say, for example, when same average bloke has a garage sale on Saturday and Sunday. Do you EVER hear the average guy talk about the stuff he's selling as the "product"? No. That's professional sales and promotion talk. Which means Andy Card was seriously exposed to that kind of talk. It was going on all around him. Political and strategy people were/are all around him where he works now, specialists in working the media and planting ideas and memes and concepts and - yes - product with the overall population. So he was immersed in it, either just by breathing in that air that was all over the White House, OR he was in all the meetings where this stuff was actively and strategically kicked around and set into motion. You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. Fleas - in this case - sales/promotion lingo. Like total immersion learning of a language. Pretty soon you're talking that way, too.
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
24. I think I smell a Terrah Alert...
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
135. HaHaHa
You're good. CNN will spend next week discussing 'the safety of the nation'.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
25. I've often wondered how much these whores have to be paid
to whore for that incompetent POS. I bet they got Armstrong cheap.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
50. Knowing Bush, he probably paid minority members of the media less
than white male members for the same Bushshit.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. What was "Dr. Germ" Judith Miller's price? Just askin'. n/t
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
37. the only thing they can do to get this out of the news is to issue a terra
alert upgrade. red, i'd guess.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
39. Stop saying 'unethical'.
What these people did was illegal, illegal, illegal. And besides that, it was illegal. And immoral. And illegal.
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
42. So, my question is this.
WHAT'S GOING TO BE DONE ABOUT IT??!

The RW would be all over this like flies on shit if the tables were turned.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
48. Scorched earth, scorched earth. Oh, yay!
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
51. Hannity and O'Really just HAVE to be gettin paid.
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. & Scarborough
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peterh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
53. It appears the twit is just doing what most authoritarian….
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 06:42 PM by peterh
regimes do….it’s just that it hasn’t quite sunk-in yet to the idiots that voted for him, that they were really voting for a dictator and a rubberstamp congress…..


DJ Iraqi Group Headed By Allawi Gives Cash To Reporters -FT

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--The political group in Iraq headed by Ayad Allawi, the
country's interim prime minister, Monday handed out cash to journalists to
ensure coverage of its press conferences, the Financial Times reported on its
Web site.
After a meeting with Allawi's supporters in west Baghdad, reporters - most of
whom were from the Arabic-language press - were invited upstairs where each was
offered a "gift" of a $100 bill contained in an envelope, the report said.
The practice, the newspaper said, is a throwback to Baathist-era patronage.
Iraq holds parliamentary elections on Jan. 30.
The report said many of the journalists accepted the cash - about equivalent
to half the starting monthly salary for a reporter at an Iraqi newspaper.
The newspaper reported that giving gifts to journalists is common in many of
the Middle East's authoritarian regimes.

The press conference came as Allawi and his allies kicked the electoral
campaign of Iraqi List, the election slate headed by the interim prime minister.

(END) Dow Jones Newswires
01-10-05 1809ET(AP-DJ-01-10-05 2309GMT)
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eek MD Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
54. My response.... Duh!
It's obvious that there's conservative "pocket change" flowing to these guys........It's just too coincidental that almost every commentator seems to agree wholeheartedly with the shrub agenda.... *sigh*
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
56. Someone asked Mark Levin this today
on WABC radio, NYC. They asked him how much he had been paid by the administration. Of course, he denied it and insulted them by saying at least he works.

BTW, on his show, he said to a very polite foreign caller, "Did you come up with that opinion when you were filling your car up with gas? Or when you were filling other people's cars up with gas?" Very blatant racism. I'm filing a complaint with the FCC.
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jmatthan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Maybe you could fill in about
the exact verbatim "opinion" that the "foreign caller" made!!

I have always known Mark Levine to be courteous but sharp wit host. I think most callers know that he gives as good as he gets.

I think Mike Malloy, Guy James, Mike Webb, Ray Taliaferro, Nate Clay, Thom Hartmann, and many more top and great Liberal Talk Show Hosts, also cleverly turn the callers words against themselves - so that is hardly racist!!

The Conservative ones as Bill O'Rielly, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, however are appear to be openly racist and there is nothing clever about the way they show their racism. I wonder whether you complain whenever these people show their racism?

I see good and clever hosting by the Liberals, who generally stick to facts, rather than open racism as witnessed in the Conservative Talk Shows, who stick to "their opinions" usually devoid of facts.

Also, anyone who calls a Talk Show must be prepared to get as good as they give.

Jacob Matthan
Correspondence with an "Educated" American
Oulu, Finland
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #65
74. If he truly gives "as good" as he gets
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 12:17 AM by FredScuttle
I hope that the caller told him he would kick his mother in the vagina if he didn't think it would ruin his shine.

edit: didn't want to be totally rude
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WatchWhatISay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #65
75. I think you are getting your "Mark's" mixed up
Mark Levin is a neocon asshole. Often seen getting red faced and totally loosing it. Commonly seen Clinton bashing in the late 90's.


Mark has been a frequent guest and substitute host on the Sean Hannity show, and has also been an advisor to Rush Limbaugh, who frequenlty refers to him on the air with the nickname "F. Lee Levin."

http://www.wabcradio.com/showdj.asp?DJID=12009

Mark Levin is one of America's preeminent conservative commentators and constitutional lawyers. He's in great demand as a political and legal commentator, and has appeared on hundreds of television and radio programs. Levin is also a contributing editor for National Review Online, and writes frequently for other publications.

Levin has served as a top adviser to several members of President Ronald Reagan's Cabinet -- including as Chief of Staff to the Attorney General of the United States. In 2001, the American Conservative Union named Levin the recipient of the prestigious Ronald Reagan Award. He currently practices law in the private sector.




Mark Levine, however, is a totally different animal. He's a progressive host on WAGE 1200 AM in DC.


Mark Levine gives you The Inside Scoop from political players inside the Beltway – news that the media almost never reports and that some in government do not want you to know about. Mark welcomes all during his talk radio hour, and he particularly values calls from folks who disagree with him.

The Inside Scoop is an alternative to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and the other right-wing clones. Call it moderate, alternative, or progressive talk radio, but Mark gives his own unique inside-the-beltway perspective that is beyond either conservative or liberal spin.

http://www.radioinsidescoop.com/other-static/who-we-are.html
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jmatthan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #75
85. Thanks for the clarification

I have never heard of this neocon Mark Levin.

I am great fan of Mark Levine.

So when it was mentioned that there was a foreign caller, I assumed it was the Talk Show host!!

Sorry for the confusion.

Regards

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland
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susu369 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #75
107. Mark Levin is rude as they come
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 08:16 PM by susu369
met him through business associations many, many years ago. He is obnoxious. When I first met him, I accidently called him Mr. Levine. He went through the roof. Puhleeze....

I speak of Mark Levin, Landmark Legal Foundation.

Short man syndrome, IMHO.
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
57. Just sent this letter to the FCC
Dear Mr. Powell,
Today, at approximately 6:25PM, on Mark Levin's radio show on WABC radio, New York, New York, 770AM, Mark Levin said the following to an obviously foreign caller:

"Did you come up with that opinion when you were filling your car up with gas? Or when you were filling other people's cars up with gas?"

He exhibited very blatant racism against the caller. I hope that you look into this; Mark Levin continually makes racist remarks such as this. I hope that racism is not condoned in the United States today.

Best regards,
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ShadesOfC Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
58. I remember reading about this last October in USA Today
Why mainstream media continues to be relunctant in following up and through on the Bush adminstrations policies and Bush Jr's questionable history in a timely manner puzzels me. Yet another unethical story barely seeing the light of day.

Linda Chavez - I guess she was looking at herself in a mirror while slamming scumbag Armstrong Williams, she's about as hypocritical as they come.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #58
92. Exactly, just another POST-Election attempt to smear the public windshield
Even now, the MSM is not giving this story the merit it deserves.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
59. "It was bad judgment. You know, just bad judgment."
"Officer, I know I shot my neighbor, and I'm sorry he's dead, but it was bad judgment, you know, just bad judgment."

"Your Honor, yes, I forged his name on the check and cashed it for $5,000, but it was bad judgment, you know, just bad judgment."

"Honey, yes, I had an affair with your best friend, but it was bad judgment, you know, just bad judgment."

From now on, whenever you're accused of sleazy behavior, just use the code words "bad judgment."
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peterh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. I was wondering what was in between….
Youthful indiscretions and Alzheimers…<slapping forehead>….why of course…Bad Judgement….:P
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
60. Now that two-bit shill gets all honorable and won't name his fellow...
jackals?
I have despised that lowlife for twenty years. And I despise him even more in light of recent events.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
63. The buck never stops with bush the lesser.
He can out a CIA Operative. He can let our boys torture prisoners and he can pay off the press. Nothing ever touches this Teflon Don. Why?
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Acryliccalico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
64. Tis is something we have to go after
so we can get at the truth. We need to dig deep and press hard to get this all out and in the open. The country is looking for the truth.
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Gelliebeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
66. The public needs to hear this story
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 09:57 PM by Gelliebeans
and we need to continue to ask these type of questions.

But here it is on Monday and all day long MSRNC, CNN and that other faux news org are all discussing Dan Rather and the independent commission hired by CBS to investigate bias on CBS national guard story.

Apparently government paid pundits aren't as interesting to investigate as Dan Rather and CBS news.:eyes:

Don't get me wrong what CBS did was irresponsible but to their credit they hired the independent company to investigate themselves.
Faux news would never take a hard look at their own journalistic shortcomings let alone discuss the possible payoff of their very own.

FOIA's might bring to light republicans that are on the payroll.
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Acryliccalico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. I think
this is a soft spot. If we keep hitting hard, news people will start talking. When it rains it pours and in the media they all like to talk, and defend themselves. Let them center on CBS, if we don't let the whole thing sit IMHO the house of cards will start to fall. Remember he said there were others.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #67
140. This IS a soft spot. And YES, keep hitting hard. 1 (800) 839 - 5276.
That's the TOLL FREE number to the Capitol Hill switchboard. They'll transfer you to the office of ANY congressmember or Senator. All you have to do is ask.

Start pounding. Start calling CNN, MSNBC, etc. Or better yet: Your Own Local Paper or your OWN local TV or talk radio stations. If they realize there's interest, they'll get more interested, too.
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manly Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
68. the price of honor
Do you think that asshole Dennis Miller got a piece of the pie, or did he become a bushie due to his own natural stupidity?
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Acryliccalico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #68
69.  My thought, Sure why not ? I don't think there
is any law on thinking something yet.
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PennyK Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
72. My take
How could ANYBODY support the terrible policies of Bush & Co. if they were not being paid to do so?
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SideshowScott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
73. Its just not the White House im thinking...
Many other cooperations, Special Interest groups and Millionares could be paying off reporters and pundits to put an honest shine in the dirty deeds that they want the american people to buy..( John Stossel comes to mind..I KNOW that guy has to be cashing checks to be a shill for big money )
I for one am not suprised and thought that was the case for a long time..While honest reporters have been bullied into near silance..( To those still fighting the good fight..I more than honor you in a tough time )
And the fact that cooperations are contolling the news on TV and Radio is another thing that needs to be stopped
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
76. Is this our Watergate? n/t
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #76
80. Oh, wouldn't that be sweet
But Watergate was broken by the media. So far the media is stepping pretty lightly with this one. Imagine what could happen if it received the air time of the Dan Rather crap.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #80
83. So? We're the media now.
They're reporting on the internet and bloggers and forums and on and on a whole lot more lately. Usually, they're derogatory and dismissive.

They see us watching, too- and they don't like it. We don't get paid, so we're better able to say the tougher truths. They see us as rivals, where until now they've had none. They can't fight us- we connect together much too easily online for that. So they dismiss instead.

More the fools, they.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #83
91. I get the impression that they're terrified. Losing viewers and
readers right and left. Okay, maybe left first.
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WatchWhatISay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
77. Of course Al Hunt knows there are others !
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 01:01 AM by WatchWhatISay
He's married to Judy Woodruff of CNN, always a mouthpiece for Bushco.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/1999/100599a1.html

In early April 1986, for instance, George W. was miffed at a prediction by the Wall Street Journal's Al Hunt that Jack Kemp -- not Vice President Bush -- would win the GOP nomination in 1988. At a Dallas restaurant, Bush spotted Hunt having dinner with his wife, Judy Woodruff, and their four-year-old son.

Bush stormed up to the table and started cursing out Hunt. "You son of a bitch," Bush yelled. "I saw what you wrote. We're not going to forget this."


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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
81. Damn liberal media...
nt
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njdemocrat106 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
84. Sing it out and say it loud, Mr. Williams
Who would've thunk the Bush Administration, with its "moral values", would do such a thing like bribery? :evilgrin:
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tngledwebb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
87. Read about the Powell doctrine,
the Armstrong story is the tip of a very old and ugly iceberg.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
90. You have to love it. Williams telling Corn there are others
is like being on a gridlocked freeway and whispering that people don't carpool. I'M SHOCKED!
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Bhaisahab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #90
111. Don't trust ANYTHING Corn writes or talks about
according to Mike Ruppert of FromTheWilderness, Corn is a paid-for CIA black-ops person. And in Crossing The Rubicon, Ruppert discusses at length how Corn went about maligning Ruppert for asking uncomfortable questions re 9/11.
I trust Ruppert way too much to ever take Corn seriously.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #111
117. EXCUSE ME?
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Bhaisahab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #117
118. You need to read "Crossing The Rubicon"
It's not a conspiracy laced book. It's very well documented, relying on facts and facts alone. And then you'll know more.
Mike Ruppert is a true hero.
visit www.fromthewilderness.com for more.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #118
120. Or at least, read Corn's shallow analysis of possible election fraud
Edited on Wed Jan-12-05 12:23 AM by sfexpat2000
in the next to last The Nation. It was nauseating. And then, the NYT Public Editor cited him as an authority -- when Corn had clearly not done ANY research on his own. I really liked him. Maybe this was just a misstep. But, I'm talking him with a pillar of salt from now on.

Beth
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mojojojo27 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
95. hmm
hmm
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
97. Williams: "But MA! all the OTHER kids are doin' it!"
Nice try, Armstrong...
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NYYFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
99. Here's some free advice, Armstrong
1) If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you do it too ?

2) If you admit you're wrong- pull out your golden checkbook and REIMBURSE US !!
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
100. And if all the other kids were jumping off the Empire State Building.....
What a clown Williams is. Love to track his viewership/readership ratings..
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
101. Letter to Laura Ingraham and response - What the heck???
My letter written and emailed last night:

Ms. Ingraham,
Approximately how many government officials and departments have you taken money from? A number of us at different sites are filing FOIA papers so it is probably best to admit any funds received up front.

Best regards,
Adigal

And the astoundingly intelligent response I received from the lady's site:

From : Laura Ingraham <suggestions@lauraingraham.com>
Reply-To : <suggestions@lauraingraham.com>
Sent : Monday, January 10, 2005 10:44 PM

Doh! Do you write for the Simpsons? This is very funny crack-pot left-wing stuff? Did you write it yourself? FOIA away--any amount of money the left or right nutjobs waste is fine by us!



My question: What the heck???



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Magmadona Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. Oh She Is Cute.
I think a response from everyone on this board would be the best revenge right now. Take her on her words each person email this barrel of stupid with kind words addressing her reply this way shes forced to look at everyday. Send word to other forums of this little information make her have to think about it everyday. Yet don't forget to fill out the forms.
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AmandaRuth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #101
106. notice how she doesn't answer the question.
of course she is on the take, financially or other special favors. I am sure she is well rewarded for being a spew unit.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #106
142. "A spew unit"! GREAT ONE!
Especially in her case. She's a shrew spew unit.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #101
119. Sounds like...
She has something to hide.
Hmmmmmm???
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Soth Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
102. Hey, remember when Repubs were angry because a reporter "planted"...
a single question about armor? There was no money involved, it was a legitimate question, it wasn't spewing talking points, and it was perfectly legal. But man, Freepers were UP IN ARMS over that. And now this...think Freepers will rush to Armstrong's defense, or just crucify him and treat his "there are others" statement as if it's crazy talk?

Do I smell (Repub) hypocrisy in the air?
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
109. E-mail CNN
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 09:00 PM by gorbal
E-mail CNN and ask them kindly never to book him or anyone who is paid with our tax payer dollars ever again-

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form1.html?35

Check their response on Democracy Now-

http://www.democracynow.org/

Their new chief seems to be one who might just need a little push in the right direction. Dispite what others say about CNN being in Bush's pocket and all that, I think they some shred of humanity left.

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
112. I predict an effort to find a "liberal" pundit who took some small thing
Maybe a rubber chicken meal or something, and smear him or her. Then the claim will be "everyone does it", and "all's fair in love and war". Watch for it. They may even have one of their planted pretend liberals (e.g. Alan Colmes?) set up to take the fall.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #112
115. that would be the Rovian thing to do....
so you can shut up the argument.

DON'T FALL FOR IT!! KEEP THE ECHO CHAMBER REVERBERATING!!!!!!!!!
\
OUTFOX FOX!!!!!!!!!
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. crank the echo chamber!!!!!!!!!
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #112
143. They also went balls-out on the latest Dan Rather update.
Tweety did a whole hour's worth of "special report" on it - BESIDES "Hardball."
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GOPBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
122. Just imagine if a Dem President did this.
The media would be fucking screaming about it. This shit pisses me off so much.
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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
123. I am disgusted. Let's go with those FOI Act requests right quick
and in a hurry.

Damn him and his bogus contrition. And double damn him for protecting his dirty friends. I am so sick of this same old story from rethuglicans. Protecting their asses at all costs and fuck outmoded concepts of human decency and MORALS <---get that? MORALS?? You POS lying Republicans????

<excuse me, small rant/over for now>

I had never heard of A.W. until just recently, on the Tavis Smiley show, (before it got canned :cry: ). I was flabbergasted. Just didn't expect to be hearing a black commentator going Gung Ho Rah Rah for smirky. Seriously, I was driving along not quite being able to understand what I was hearing! Too bad I didn't already know about A.W.
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grumpy old fart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #123
125. The FOIA requests have already been sent....
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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #125
129. thank you !
Thanks for the info and link!
I will definitely check out this site and see if I can participate.

Well, I sure hope there's enough push to force results.

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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #125
130. This is why Smirk ordered all govt agencies to resist ALL FOIAs
Even the most innocent and noncontroversial. They can delay this for a year, easy.
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grumpy old fart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. you have a link on that? N/T
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
124. Of course... like they're just going to pick one guy!
He's obviously part of a program or policy to do this. What are they calling the Office of Political Propaganda these days? That's where we have to look.

It angers me that Williams was chosen to be outed -- maybe they were hoping people would feel bad picking on a black guy -- because I'm SURE there are other people who will be outed in the next few weeks, and who won't be torn up like Williams is. He's the fall guy here.
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Old Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
141. A big enough link between FOX and Bush
would break the faith of any Bush backers who still have cognitive reasoning.

Leading to a Democratic takeover of the house in 2006...

Leading to articles of impeachment...

Ending in a march to the courtyard.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #141
149. I only have one question for everyone here
Are you really surprised?


The BushCo minions' motto is win at any cost. This is chump change, and for anyone to have not thought they weren't paying their Reich-wing commentators (they certainly AREN'T journalists) is naive.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #149
150. The direct payment for services was a surprise
Indirect payments of support to think tanks and production companies where what I thought was the standard way of funneling money for propaganda. That and special access for right wing programs and pundits.

This was sloppy or they no longer care to hide it.
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