WP: Among Episcopalians, Grief Over Gay Bishop

[CShine]

As arguments over sexuality and Scripture reverberate through the nation's 7,364 Episcopal congregations, more than 500 priests and 3,200 lay people have signed a petition calling the convention's action illegitimate. Nearly a dozen dioceses have scheduled meetings to discuss whether to affiliate with Anglican splinter groups or conservative bishops overseas. Some priests and parishioners -- how many is unknown -- have left, and many others are withholding donations to the national church.

Yet in interviews with more than 20 Episcopal priests and lay people across the country who have been dismayed by the church's decisions, most said they have not yet decided what to do. Many are waiting to see what happens at a gathering of more than 1,400 traditionalist Episcopalians in Texas on Oct. 7-9 and at a meeting in England a week later of the primates, or presiding bishops, of the 38 regional churches that make up the Anglican Communion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10302-2003Sep14.html

[regnaD kciN]

1. There may be "grief" among some...

...but there's joy among others (myself included)!

[DrBB]

6. You can add me and a lot of others

...to that list.

[SoCalDem]

2. Good Grief... Grow UP, Episcopalians..

Geez Louise.. There must be a zillion churches in this country.. Find one you like, and "quit-cher-bitchin"..

[FlashHarry]

7. Er, please don't lump us all in their camp.

I am an Episcopalian and proud of it. And I, along with many Episcopalians, have absolutely no problem with gay priests or bishops.

So please don't say 'Grow UP, Episcopalians.' That's like saying 'Grow UP, Americans. You voted for Bush, now deal with it.'

[Bush_has_Parvo]

3. Oh, CShine, you are wasting your devisive time

all hail the white southern baptist mantra: Women are subserviant to their husbands, and gay people do not exist. amen
Vengeful and angry God, hear my prayer?

[FlashHarry]

8. "white southern baptist ?"

I'm confused. I thought we were talking about the Episcopal Church.

[Democat]

4. Replace the word "gay" with "black" and go back 100 years

You'll probably see the same arguments. If not in the Episcopalian church, then in others.

[The Zanti Regent]

5. Go back 30 years

More accurate!

At least this guy is OUT of the closet, while a whole bunch of Southern Baptists are still IN thiers...

[FlashHarry]

9. Again, why are you talking about Baptists?

when this thread is about Episcopalians? There's a HUGE difference between the two denominations.

Yes, there are a few conservative Episcopalians out there who don't like the idea of a gay bishop. But, compared with many of the other denominations, the Episcopal Church is much, much more liberal and inclusive.

[Rowdyboy]

10. My Episcopal parish had a meeting concerning Bishop Robinson this week...

We are a small, southern, rural parish with about 120 members. 35 people showed up. One spoke against, 15 (including me) spoke in favor. The lone dissenter will eventually go elsewhere (small loss) and the church will continue.

All these stories about "shism" are wistfull thinking on the part of the right. The Episcopal church is in fine shape, and all attempts to blow this out of proportion will fail.

[DrFunkenstein]

11. Dumb Question

Can Bishops have sex? Or is this guy only theoretically gay?

Note: I realize he is, in fact, gay, but I meant as opposed to a practicing homosexual. And practice does make perfect.

[Maeve]

12. Bishops can and do

And this one is in a long-term committed relationship.

[regnaD kciN]

19. I think you have Episcopalians...

...confused with Roman Catholics (whose priests and bishops are required to be celibate) and Eastern Orthodox (where priests can marry or not, but only celibate priests can be chosen as bishops).

Mandatory celibacy was abolished after the Anglican (Episcopal) Communion broke with Papal jurisdiction under Henry VIII. (Big surprise, huh? ;-) )

[realFedUp]

13. These people are just looking for power

and a way to separate themselves from the main church.
If it wasn't about gays priests and blessings.
it would be about something else. The process was
legitimate and democratic.

[Stuckinthebush]

14. Here's a question for Episcopalians...

How many people have been attracted to the denomination since the very progressive, forward thinking vote?

Probably quite a few.

Let the bad apples go, don't dwell on their ignorance, and continue the wonderful work that the Episcopal church has long been known for.

In the short term, people will leave, but in the long-term, the denomination will see a number of people flock to their doors.

Congratulations!

[Wednesdays]

15. I've seen a lot of new people in our Episcopal church recently...

and interestingly, most are married heterosexual couples! I think they see our church as a breath of fresh air from the homophobia that is so prevalent in many congregations.

On edit:
I also meant to add, that our head bishop of the diocese of Oklahoma is fully in support of the ordination of the gay bishop! Yay!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. So if we assume one priest per parish

which is not necessarily true, since large parishes may have more, the protestors represent at most 6% of the Episcopal parishes in the country.

The Episcopal Church attracts a lot of converts from more conservative denominations. In fact, the percentage of converts is high enough that we have the phrase "cradle Episcopalian," which is something like being a "native Oregonian," i.e. a minority of the total current population.

The General Convention was held here in Minneapolis, so I've talked to people who were there (I arrived just too late to drop in on it). While the news media acted as if the confirmation of Gene Robinson was the only issue on the agenda, the people who were actually there spoke of wonderful, exciting worship services, one held by Integrity (an organization of GLBT Episcopalians) and one held by youth from all over the world. They also said that a major topic discussed was the problem of global inequality and the persistence of poverty and how the Episcopal Church in the U.S. could cooperate with Anglican churches in the Third World to alleviate these problems.

My church got a lot of phone calls after the confirmation of Gene Robinson as bishop. They were overwhelmingly favorable, and some of the callers said that they would be looking into joining.

By the way, recently I looked at the church's website, and as I was going through the clergy and staff bios, I noticed that one of the priests on the staff mentioned her female life partner as a member of the household.

For those of us who have been hanging around the Episcopal Church for a long time, this controversy all sounds familiar. Parishes threatened to leave the Episcopal Church over the question of the ordinaation of women. A few did, but if you go to their churches now, more than twenty years later, they seem inward-looking, peevish, and self-righteous, and definitely in the minority.

ON EDIT: There is definitely a "market" for open-minded, joyful, progressive religious experiences. As many of you know, I just moved from Portland,Oregon, where the two largest and fastest-growing churches in the downtown area are First Unitarian and Trinity Episcopal Cathedral.

[regnaD kciN]

20. And here's an irony...

They also said that a major topic discussed was the problem of global inequality and the persistence of poverty and how the Episcopal Church in the U.S. could cooperate with Anglican churches in the Third World to alleviate these problems.

Even as we're doing this, a large majority of bishops of "Anglican churches in the Third World" are trying to have the U.S. Episcopal Church excommunicated from the Anglican Communion because of our acceptance of +Robinson's election!

:crazy:

[shimmergal]

17. I don't think many Episcopalians will leave.

On Saturday, the Episcopal women's spiritual and service order that I belong to had its meeting, and the interim priest spoke a bit about events at the General Convention.

All of the members are middle-aged or older. Several said they were "having trouble" with the decision, but none of them seem inclined to leave the denomination.

As the priest said, eventually the church will accept this, and in another generation or two, people will look back at the controversy and wonder "What on earth was _that_ all about?" After all, we've managed to accept divorce and remarriage, which Jesus seems to have said shouldn't happen. (Of course it seems he was speaking only to men, and in a wholly different cultural context.)

Needless to say, in another generation there'll be some other issue
that ignites the same sort of inflamed rhetoric and inner searching.

[Rowdyboy]

18. In the '70's it was ordination of women...

Then there was the ordination of gay priests.
Before all that it was revising the 1928 Prayerbook.

Each time we were told the church is doomed-destined to split. We're still waiting.

At our meeting on Bishop Robinson Wednesday, there were two new members-both drawn in due to the Church's stance of tolerance. One was a retiree who moved here from Key West to be with her daughter; the other is a lesbian lawyer who live in town with her partner and their child. We'll lose a few bigots, but the Church will go on. The older women that are our church's heart are all incredibly supportive.