Ohio picks paper ballot, pencil

[RawMaterials]

Blackwell opts for optical scanner voting system

By Cindi Andrews
Enquirer staff writer

COLUMBUS - Get your No. 2 pencils ready.

Ohioans who thought they would one day be voting on machines that resemble ATMs will instead be marking paper ballots that look like standardized-test sheets and are tallied by a scanner at the voter's precinct.

"It is just the most efficient and practical way to proceed," Secretary of State Ken Blackwell said Wednesday, as he made the optical scanner the state's primary voting system.

Optical scan is the most widely used system nationwide, accounting for 32 percent of votes in the 2004 election. Just 11 of Ohio's 88 counties use optical scan now, including Clermont.

Ultimately, Blackwell said, electronic voting would have cost $80 million more than optical scan devices.

Blackwell has already certified two optical scan systems - those made by Diebold Election Systems and Elections Systems and Software. He gave county boards until Feb. 9 to pick one or the other.

The benefit of the optical scan is that people can look at their ballots and see for themselves how they voted, said Tim Burke, chairman of the Hamilton County Board of Elections.

Hamilton County selected Texas-based Hart InterCivic's electronic voting machine last year. Burke, also the county Democratic Party chairman, was surprised by the Republican secretary of state's announcement Wednesday, but not necessarily opposed. Burke had been worried about the county's cost to switch voting systems.

Betty McGary, deputy director of the Butler County Board of Elections, said she was "shocked" by Blackwell's directive.

so on one hand you get diebold on the other you get a system IMHO better then the punch card system currently here in Ohio.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050113/NEWS01/501130364

[trogdor]

1. So there you have it.

Ohio GOP gets what it wants - a second term for Chimpy, and now it relents on the black box thing. Swell.

[WildClarySage]

2. Yeah, now that they know we know how they did it,

they won't take a chance that we would hijack the vote like they did, not realizing that this is the sort of real moral values issue that divides us from them.

ooh, I think I need some coffee. That almost made sense to me. :)

[flordehinojos]

3. WHY ONLY DIEBOLD AND ELECTION SYSTEMS SOFTWARE

both of which are bush shill owned and operated?

[WhiteTara]

28. they have perfected the art of cheating

on any machine.  This gives sheeple the comfort of their vote
"counting" while being able to muck up the
tabulation without scrutiny.

[oneold1-4u]

30. Check out OR

We've had this balloting for several years! Don't know the Co. making the machines for reading them, but this type of machine has been around for 50 years. Diabold can go to hell after what they did!
Had to find a simple #2 pencil but it is certainly the way to go and with mail in voting. The cost is nominal also. 80% ballot return or better is a great way to take back the country and call it democracy, no matter who wins.
The worst part is getting ballots for everything someone gets enough petitioners for, but that is a part of it, and just wish a nationwide petition could take out undesirables in the national government when they turn bad!

[Boredtodeath]

4. NOT a solution, folks

It amazes me that everyone will simply say "Oh, OK, well there's paper in this system so we can move on to a different issue now."

OpScan systems by Diebold and/or ES&S still use central tabulators to ADD THE VOTES!

If the paper isn't the legal ballot, they'll never use it in a recount.

They WILL make the computer tally the official ballot.

You may as well shred the paper after it's scanned because you'll never get to see it again.

[MaineDem]

6. The paper ballot is the legal ballot

I just took part in a recount of optically scanned ballots and we counted every one of those paper ballots.

[Boredtodeath]

9. In OHIO?

State law governs the legal definition of the ballot.

Did you take part in a recount in Ohio and count every one of those paper ballots?

[MaineDem]

12. No, not in Ohio (nt)

[cincinnati_liberal]

44. I did

[starmaker]

7. tabulators will still be linked

so nothing will have changed
www.chuckherrin.com if u want an explaination

[Supersedeas]

16. Exactly, since Tabulation is STILL electronic--you still have electronic

voting...we need paper receipts for every voter.

So that for auditing purposes, a Sec of State can match a numbered voter's ballot to a voters receipt to confirm that votes were accurately tabulated.

[Kolesar]

18. Am I supposed to read Chuck's whole website?

Just give me the skinny.

[RawMaterials]

8. maybe this will be were those cameras on phone can

come in handy, everyone take a picture of you vote with a date time stamp then we have some prof when you can produce more pictures than votes turn up.

[TahitiNut]

23. No technology is sufficient without an appropriate technique.

Insofar as the technology itself is concerned, optical scanning tabulation is quite satisfactory. It is, however, not sufficient - no more than any balloting/tabulation approach that does not have both procedural controls and an autonomous audit process (including rigorous error/fraud detection).

An essential element of any optical scanning tabulation process is an error/fraud detection procedure wherein the manual tabulation of a statistically significant sample of ballots provides confidence that no materially significant mis-tabulation occured. Election procedures must include a provision for both such an audit process, but also an automatic manual tabulation process, publicly-funded, in the event material differences in any election are seen to exist.

[barbaraann]

24. Excellent, excellent post!

I wonder if it could be put at the top of the voting forum or something.

[sandnsea]

34. My OR county does that

One of the overlooked plusses of Oregon's mail-in system is that we have no precinct counts all over the county. All ballots go into one office at the county seat. No separate tabulating, no uploading to the county, etc. Our county does a manual count to check the tabulation of the machines, 3% IIRC. I'll repeat it again and again, Oregon kept the same percentage of Dem & Nader voters from 2000, one of the few states to do that. We also had gay marriage on the ballot, so should have had as much a push for the Christian vote as any other state. It seems to me it would be worth digging into the Oregon vote to compare where we lost the vote in other states. And there is an exit polling, I don't know if they stand at drop boxes or make phone calls, but I know there's exit polling statistics.

[SharonAnn]

32. Yes, the next part of the system has to be "Robust Auditing"

which involves random hand-counts (in all elections). Truly random! Not driven by how close or far apart the contestants were, not driven how convenient it is to hand-count this location, etc.

It's an auditing function and one could simply get auditors to help design a process that would accomplish what is needed.

Then, if the random hand-count audit shows any discrepancies, there is a complete recount.

Without robust auditing, the paper ballots alone only help a little.

[BR_Parkway]

5. OK, if they actually used uncerfied machines, what does that mean?

"We have a tight election-reform deployment schedule, too few allocated federal and state dollars and not one electronic voting device certified under Ohio's standards and rules,'' Blackwell said in a statement. "Precinct count technology just makes sense considering the flexibility it provides to financially constrained counties."

I keep thinking he couldn't be stupid enough to actually state that if they just used machines like that in the 2004 election - isn't that a confession to breaking the laws of the state? Am I missing something?

[no_to_war_economy]

10. I do prefer optical to touch but

it has to be with a NATIONAL ELECTIONS body and not in the hands of private corporations

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Hey, the op scans are what the Republican counties are using in Florida.

Think about that for a while.

[Ironpost]

13. Let me see if I understand this

we use paperless trail, steal the election now we are going to a paper ballot. Sure looks like fraud to me. I want a re-vote if not the whole country at least the states we have problems with. Ohio, Florida and Pennsylvania.

[goclark]

21. This will be the new tool to FRAUD

Blackwell doesn't roll over that easy.

They now know what to do with the new system.

[sweetheart]

14. sloshing out more pork to the republican companies

I don't buy that this is an improvement. The preferred machine
supplier would offer an indisputable way to express the voters intent
AND supply a paper audit trail.

Computer balloting is better for several reasons.... your choice can
be made CLEAR, and choosing 2 choices or other such overvoting and
undervoting is not possible. As well it handles languages and
disability voters better.

Keep in mind, that the real fraud point, is the registration process
and pushing people on to provisional balloting to never be counted.
Blackwell is a criminal... and he's giving public money to his mates
at "reelect-republicans.com"... no victories here...

[LiberalEsto]

15. Disappearing pencil marks?

Maybe they're going this route because they've invented pencils that make marks which later disappear.

With these cheat freaks, anything is possible.

:evilfrown:

[Zan_of_Texas]

26. There are a zillion fraud points.

Of the three: punch card, opscan, DRE, opscan is best. Precinct-based is better than central count.

But registration can be rigged, polling places can be rigged so that multiple precincts are in one building, and they count one precinct's votes in another precinct where they just happen to use a different rotation of ballot order for candidates.

The tabulation is indeed linked up by modems etc. and can be rigged.

The paper exists for a recount. The recount in Ohio was rigged - non random, non transparent, etc etc etc. They can also prevent recounts by charging out the kazoo (NM wants $1.4 million to recount, or $2 a vote.) Or, they can stonewall like Blackwell for 34 days, giving sneaks plenty of time to prepare the appropriate 3% for a recount. Recount observers in Ohio found some stacks of punch cards would be 100% Bush for many numbers in a row, then the stack would switch to 100% Kerry for many numbers. When asked, election officials said that the ballots were in the order they were voted, which is simply unbelievable. More believable is that the stacks were tinkered with, or even that new stacks were punched behind the scenes to match the fake tabulations. And, someone forgot to shuffle them.

One person, not yet on record, is saying that in Ohio they saw white stickers over the Kerry oval area, with Bush's oval marked. HELLO! How obvious can ya get on fraud!

Remember Blackwell is hanging out with bona fide neocons, and is not just an everyday small potatoes incompetent.

J. Kenneth Blackwell is formerly a domestic policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation, member of the Council on Foreign Relations, and serves, along with noted neocons Richard Perle and James Woolsey, on the advisory board of JINSA, The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs
http://www.jinsa.org/about/adboard/adboard.html?documentid=1343

[Stevepol]

17. ES&S is crookeder than Diebold and scanners still have to be

tabulated. Will the central tabulators be ES&S or Diebold? Naturally. So the question is "Will the vote be audited?" Unless they've figured out a way to change the paper ballots, this could be a good way of insuring fairness. But there has to be required auditing for every election. If it's done randomly, it's possible to have a fair result, but with ES&S and Diebold the only choices, it sounds mighty suspicious to me. The Urosevic brothers will have a field day sitting at home figuring out how to scam the system. This electronic voting machine stuff is the biggest scam and con in American history. We're witnessing the biggest con job in American history, probably world history, right now. We have a front row seat.

[mattclearing]

19. It could be worse. At least it's not touchscreen.

While Blackwell has proven adept at preventing a manual recount of op-scan paper, at least there is a paper record to count.

[gauguin57]

20. Anyone know if there's a media consortium trying to handcount Opti-Scan

ballots in Ohio from Nov. 2? And compare them with the "official" totals. Like they did with FLA 2000?

(I know, I know ... MSM, actually doing its JOB? What, am I high?)

I certainly think such a group should. HAND count. Otherwise, we'll NEVER know what really happened.

[Canuckistanian]

22. Wow. Taking Canada's example?

We have always had the paper/pencil voting method. It never failed us.
Easy, quick to count, verifiable records in times when a recall is needed.
That's why all of our elections are over, finshed and complete by midnight, Easter Standard Time. No court challenges, no machine failures, almost no lineups.
Now, is this a difficult concept to grasp?

[ecoalex]

25. The fraud will move to tabulation

and all the county clerks excell based tabulators. Where's the encryption? paper smaper, it's electronic fraud, where it happens, and don't forget disenfranchaisement , which won't be changed. Paper is a ploy. a ruse, a distraction from the real avenues of fraud.

[Zan_of_Texas]

27. The problem with the Canadian model is two-fold:

1. Selling paper and pencils or pens to county election officials is not a high-profit margin activity for private companies.

2. Too hard to commit election fraud.


You see? Wouldn't work in the U.S.! (Actually, parts of Maine vote this way. And, a few other areas. Europe does. A look at Maine's moderate Republican Senators, and you get an idea why the ideological right-wing would HATE simple paper ballots nationwide.)

[Canuckistanian]

31. Hmmm. I see your point.

Maybe if the Pentagon supplies the pencils.....

[buddysmellgood]

29. Now we know that the central tabulators are the primary method of

fraud. ES&S manipulates the count there, Keeping it within a safe margin. In the event of a recount, the records are locked down until ballots can be manipulated and/or replaced.

[sweetheart]

33. The PRIMARY fraud is in the registration and poll setup

Delivering too few machines of the error-prone sort to democratic
precincts, challenging people's right to vote, felon lists and
not giving out provisional ballots... these are the primary
frauds... the secondary ones are major indeed, but lets not miss the
point for our nose.

[superconnected]

35. I think they should use a pen

voters would feel a tad safer than having to use a pencil and then turning their ballot over to those repug thugs.

[Rainscents]

40. Here is Washington State...

We are allow to use dark pen or dark pencil to mark the paper ballots.

[radfringe]

36. GOPers pick

scissors and rock

scissors to cut out all the votes they don't like
and a rock to hit those voters they don't like over the head to prevent them from voting

[Mugsy]

37. How do they defend result then???

So, at the same time Blackwell and the Republicans are defending the accuracy and integrity of the Ohio election, they find problem enough with the use of electronic voting machines to stop using them entirely???

How do they defend the result of the Ohio vote and denounce the machines used to conduct that vote, at the same time?

[LittleWoman]

38. The first election reform is to get rid of Blackwell

and all of the other partisan politicians who run elections. Every state needs to have a head of election operations who is a civil servant, not an elected official and not active in any political party. Certainly not someone who is the co-chair of a candidate's state committee or the chair of a committee to pass any issue (the infamous issue 1 banning gay marriage). In the last election Blackwell did both and I am sure his counterparts in other states carried on similar activities. Likewise the local county Boards of Elections are bi-partisan, but the director of the Franklin County Board of Elections is the former chairman of the Franklin County Republican Party.

The second election reform is to go back to paper ballots and not those which are counted by scantron or any other electronic device as any of those can be manipulated. Yes, I know there were problems with paper ballots in the bad old days, but nothing like the mess we are in now. They may take longer to count, but so what. We need many other safeguards as well, but we need to start somewhere.

[pokercat999]

39. I'm thinking it may be time

to take the Jefferson route and vote with my rifle. What the hell can't live forever.

For those reading this in or associated with the FBI, CIA, DEA, ATF, NSA, US Park Service, NOAA, NASA, USDA, AMA, AARP, AAA, DOD, Dept of Homeland Security, Treasury Dept, any Evangelical Christian Church, The Wall Street Journal, Wal-Mart or any other government or quasi-government organization, I'm just kidding about the gun!

[Josh]

41. We've been using paper in Australia forever

and it has ALWAYS been perfectly reliable. The only difference is that we have PEOPLE physically hand-counting the ballots each time. They are neutral counters, and each party sends "Scrutineers" to watch them and object if necessary. It's completely accurate. Why doesn't the US just get people to count the friggin things by hand? Why this optical scan nonsense?

And why has no one ever brought an Equal Protection lawsuit against the United States for failing to enforce a uniform voting machine and counting standard?

[OhioBlue]

42. While I don't trust Blackwell, this is the best

option on the table in my opinion. He certainly doesn't gain any favor with me, I will still fight his election for Governor. This is just speculation, but one force behind the decision could be the County Governments that are in fiscal crisis and the State coming up on their budget woes. It would have cost too much to convert to electronic voting and the long lines could be alleviated by the paper ballots. He isn't doing this out of the good of his heart or by deductive reasoning. He's being pushed. (Our local State Senator recently became Senate Pres. - we have paper ballots - I have a feeling he and others may have made a case to KB) Our local governments are making cuts left and right due to lack of funds. The Local Government Fund provided by the State is now in jeopardy and the 1 cent sales tax is sure to come up for debate (if repealed, we may lose the local government fund - bye bye libraries and snow plows for County and Township Roads). I'm pretty sure the politics pushed this decision - not KB. He's grabbing at strings to improve his profile.

[SoCalDem]

43. Congress needs to take the bull by the horns and MAKE it LAW

State issues, and officers other than president, congressperson and senator should be handled in "odd year" elections..

This would encompass all the local officials, ballot propositions like gay marriage, abortion etc and would SEPARATE them from the NATIONALLY held offices that affect ALL US citizens.

What a state does regarding its own state officials, does not matter to ME, but I DO care when the composition of the US congress and the inhabitant of the WH is concerned.

I have never seen people out marching in the street, all over the US, because Marsha Smith was not elected city council person in Dubuque. Iowa...or that Measure F in Colorado Springs was not approved.


By separating those elections, and making the "even year" elections paid for by the US government, you could and WOULD be able to standardize the PAPER/CARD STOCK ballot necessary. Indelible marking pens and a simple check box next to each name on the ballot (the size of a 5 x 7 card) would be all that is necessary..

Long lines would be a moot issue. The MAXIMUM that any person would EVER have to choose is THREE..an next to each race would be a "No Vote Cast" protest vote, so there would be no ambiguous votes.


and...

It would prevent loading up the ballot with "junk issues".

I would be willing to bet that turn out would be HUGE..


Each polling place could hand count...ON ELECTION NIGHT... all their ballots.

No need for machines. The money saved on expensive, and dicey machines could be spent to just hire more PEOPLE to count, and verify voters at check-in..

[OhioBlue]

45. I completely agree with your point about

taking State Issues out of the National Elections.