Pennsylvania school in eye of creationist storm

[corksean]

The battle over attempts to introduce a version of creationism into the curriculum of American schools has become focused on a small town in Pennsylvania.

Biology teachers at a high school in Dover have rejected the instructions of local officials to read a statement in class today questioning the theory of evolution.

They had been ordered by the town's elected school board to preface their usual class on evolution with a statement, saying "Darwin's Theory is a theory ... not a fact. Gaps in the theory exist for which there is no evidence."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1389316,00.html

[spunky]

1. I love how they do that

As if Evolution is the only scientific theory which is only a theory and not fact. If they were teaching these kids proper science, every one of them would know that every theory is only a theory and not a fact, not just evolution. Its called the scientific method, look it up. Jeez.

[Occulus]

5. the teachers should have gotten creative

and devoted a whole day to theories other than creationism and evolution. It would be amusing to see a teacher who, when confronted with such a demand, taught neither one that day and spent the time on the "Many Worlds (or Universes) Interpretation" of quantum mechanics:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-manyworlds/

But the teacher would have a hell of a mess to clean up afterward, because the fundies' heads would collectively explode upon exposure. ;)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. And America will continue to fall further behind in math and science

Pretty soon people will go to the doctor and instead of a prescription, they will leave the office with a printed prayer.

[Ripley]

3. Where's their evidence for Their Stupid Theory?

BLUE STATE ALERT!!!!

[durablend]

20. Red county...

Pennsylvania may have gone blue overall but York county definitely went red.

[MsMagnificent]

36. Their only evidence is BIBLICAL

A HUGE violation of the supposedly inviolable separation of Church & State! WHY isn't that brought up when Dem's or scientists discuss it in the media?

[aden_nak]

4. Gravity. Time. Nope, can't trust a theory.

You know what I like the most about this shit? That the politicians are telling the teachers how to teach. That always cracks me right on up. Elected officials who, at best, studied the law briefly before entering politics, deciding how everyone else should do their job.

[EC]

29. Yeah, ask all those fundie women

why their boobs sag...just a theory...could be gravity?

[yellowcanine]

6. Kudos to the biology teachers. We need to stand up to the creationist

bullies. The Constitution is on the side of the SCIENCE teachers. Neither creationism nor its bastard "intelligent design" are science so their objections to evolution do not belong in the SCIENCE classroom. No one is objecting to the teaching of evolutionary theory based on science grounds, the only grounds used are religious arguments.

[RubyDuby in GA]

7. DAMN YOU PENNSYLVANIA!!!!!!!

You know it's Georgia's job to look like complete idiots on the national stage. How dare you try to usurp the spotlight?!?! Just what were you thinking??????????

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

9. LOL...good one. nt

[durablend]

21. We're sorry!

Central PA is the sorry northeast equivalent of Alabama.

[pokercat999]

25. I was born in Central PA and your statement is an insult to

ALABAMA! This section of PA is much more bigoted than anywhere i the South.

[RubyDuby in GA]

26. Even Mississippi????

Remind me to never go to Central PA.

But I bet you guys don't have nifty flags like we do..... <sarcasm>

[DemBones DemBones]

39. But Georgia's one county with the "evolution is a theory" stickers in

textbooks just got a court ruling saying they have to remove the stickers! So we may soon have northern states teaching creationism while southern states aren't. You gotta love it!

[Ouabache]

43. Fundies should have some kind of sticker on their foreheads

not sure what it should say though.

[Mithras61]

45. How about...

"booger storage"? They don't seem to have anything else there...

[SheepyMcSheepster]

53. LOL!

first time i have heard that
:D

[corksean]

48. How about this?

[alarimer]

62. That county in Georgia

Was where I went to high school. I hang my head in shame. They weren't that bad in 1986 but I guess more fundies have moved there.

[ztn]

47. don't go after PA.

I'm from PA...from a 61% red county in fact...and I'm as blue as anyone here. Just about every state (excpet maybe Mass. this time) in the union had more red counties than blue counties. That's just how it goes...even in NY and CA.

Lancaster county is a weird county. lotsa amish and evangelicals. It can happen in any state. I don't like it anymore than any liberal does.

[RubyDuby in GA]

50. I wasn't "going after PA"

I was trying to make fun of my own state because we've already gone through this. And just yesterday those damn activist judges made them remove the sticker. Hahahahaha.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/cobb/0105/14evolution.html

A snippet:
Disclaimers on evolution killed
Cobb schools' warning stickers in science books unconstitutional

By KRISTINA TORRES, BILL RANKIN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 01/14/05
A federal judge ordered the immediate removal of evolution disclaimers from Cobb County textbooks Thursday because they convey an unconstitutional endorsement of religion.

U.S. District Judge Clarence Cooper said the stickers, which call evolution "a theory, not a fact," violate both the U.S. and Georgia constitutions.

Affixed to textbooks in 2002, the disclaimers send "a message that the school board agrees with the beliefs of Christian fundamentalists and creationists," Cooper said.

The stickers might be small in size compared with the numerous pages of material on evolution in Cobb textbooks, he said, but "the message has an overwhelming presence."

[pokercat999]

52. I refer to the Amish of Lancaster County as

"Plastic Pensylvania Dutch". I grew-up near Snyder County home of the "real" Pa Dutch.

[Desperadoe]

57. Snyder County Amish?

Snyder County Amish are just the poor cousins of Lancaster County Amish. They only moved up there because they couldn't afford the cost of the farmland.

The Amish in Mifflinburg all have a cousin in Intercourse, just like the Jewish people from New York all have a cousin in Miami.:)

[pokercat999]

63. My "plastic" comment

refers to the chase for the tourist buck in Lancaster. The Amish I knew were dignified and very private people. Chasing tourist dollars was not part of their lifestyle. Of course it's been 35 years or so things may have changed.

[Desperadoe]

54. Intelligent Design Geography?

If you're from PA you should know that Dover is not in Lancaster County, it's in York County and there is a difference.

Lancaster County has it's own brand of idiots.

[Merlin]

58. I don't think it's common knowledge to anybody in PA where Dover is.

Sure had me stumped when I first heard about it a month ago.

It figures it's in York Co. though. Southern York county is not so much "conservative" as it is high hill redneck. One of the communities in Southern York County, about 15 years ago, became the first in the history of the US to REQUIRE that all of its citizens had to own a gun!

[Merlin]

55. Welcome to DU, Lancaster.

"Wierd" is a good word for it. I've been here for 32 year now, and still don't like the culture. My wife and I are gradually moving down to the Delaware shore. It's amazing how enlightened people are here in DE relative to Lancaster "Contie"

[Desperadoe]

59. enlightened people are here in DE?

Hey Merlin,

My parents lived down there on the DE shore for 20 years. Nice place but don't stray too far west on 24, like to Milford or Georgetown. They've got a whole different kind of "enlightened" over there in "Perdueland"....hehe.

[Merlin]

61. You are right. Deliverance is just down the road.

I actually live in Lincoln, just south of Milford, and I wouldn't call the neighborhood here "enlightened." But new people are coming in all the time, helping to soften the redness of the necks.

On the other hand, places like Lewes and especially Rehoboth are magnificent little hotbeds of enlightenment and culture.

[almostfamous74]

67. I'm from Lancaster...originally

I grew up in that god forsaken wasteland known as Lancaster. A lot of narrow-minded people populate that region of Central PA, including many family members. I'm just glad I had the courage to leave and head out west to beautiful Olympia, WA and Evergreen State College many years ago. Have lived blue ever since! And screw Rossi and the damn re-vote rethugs here in WA...I'm a proud democrat from King County!!!

[fertilizeonarbusto]

8. The fundies are full of it so many ways it boggles the mind

Just one little tidbit: evolution is barely a theory anymore. The amount of field evidence collected since Darwin's time is staggering and nothing yet found fundamentally disproves his thought. In other words, the missing link is barely missing. But, they conveniently frame the argument assuming we have the same amount of evidence as Darwin did.
And I'll stake our evidence against their mindless quoting of the Bible any day.

[yellowcanine]

11. Well it will always be a theory in the scientific sense - see post #1

But so is the atomic theory but you don't hear anyone running around saying that the atomic theory is "just a theory" so we should teach that people are made up of God units since we can't actually "see" atoms.

[spunky]

15. "God Units" LMAO n/t

[fertilizeonarbusto]

16. LOL

Brilliant! "God Units"!

[Demeter]

10. It's Called a Theory Because Facts Are Data Points

Theories connect the data points. But perhaps that's too subtle for the emotionally overwrought, mentally underendowed.

[slor]

12. Why are these fools even allowed to try...

to impose their ignorance on everybody else? Can they not find a nice tract of land to live among themselves, far away from us.

[yellowcanine]

13. South Carolina has been proposed for that. There are some in SC

who would object, though.

[IndianaGreen]

14. Since Einstein's Theory of Relaticity is only a theory

let's start teaching the biblical truth that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

[northzax]

23. uh, not to be picky or anything

but why does one require relativity to explain the motion of the planets in relation to the sun? wouldn't the debunking of Copernican Theory and Galileo be more appropriate?

I am willing to accept the labelling of evolution as a theory. I think it's important to note that there is a difference between a scientific theory and my theories on why the cute girl down the hall won't sleep with me.

Failing that, I will trade a sticker in hte science section for a sticker in every social studies textbook that states "democracy and capitalism are only one method of government. Strong evidence exists that other forms of government and economics, including totalitarianism, socialism, communism and enforced slavery of minorities, are equally valid."

I also think that any discussion of the civil war or the civil rights movement contain the following warning: "many social scientistsand historians dispute the equality of the races theory. Given the continued presence of large numbers of minorities in lower socio-economic classes, many historians have come to believe in the inherent superiority of the european race."

After all, there are more political scientists and economists who are communists than there are creationist biologists. And there are about as many 'historians' who are fellow travellers with the KKK. Why should their fringe theories be discounted, when we listen to the wingnuts on this one?

ok, simple disclaimer. Communism is a failed theory. looked great on paper, didn't work so well in practice. get over it. I have no intention to discount anyone who believe in communism as an economic theory, don't yell at me, you won't convince me. thank you.

[gratuitous]

17. And as for that "theory" of electricity . . .

Trash it! I say that little elves run through the wires and cause the light to come on when you flick the switch. But they're so small, you can't see them, even with the most powerful magnifying devices. I demand that my alternate theory of electricity be taught right alongside and with equal weight to "competing" theories of electricity.

Hmmm. Sounds kind of stupid when you put it that way, doesn't it?

[Divernan]

19. ANGELS, not little elves, you pagan devil, you!

nt

[Mithras61]

32. Not so!

It ain't neither elves nor angels, it's the HOLES that do the lighting! :crazy:

As insane as it sounds, there actually is a discussion amongst electricity theoreticians about whether electrons flow from negative to positive, or if holes flow from poistive to negative. I have to admit that I fail to see any difference between the two...

[jsw_81]

44. Damn you heretics!

Everyone knows that the Invisible Pink Unicorn makes the lights come on. Laugh if you want, but one day you WILL bow down before Her pink hoof.

[NYC]

35. Print up your stickers!

I've heard their little footsteps.

[KurtNYC]

18. Destroying English AND Biology

From the statement they are supposed to parrot:
Gaps in the theory exist for which there is no evidence.

Oh, so there is no evidence of gaps in the theory? Then it must be fact. ;-)

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

22. Nice catch on that....LOL. nt

[skip fox]

24. Do they do the same with theory of electricity or gravity?

National Geographic did a lovely issue on evolution/Darwain using the electricity and gravity theories, showing how a scientific "theory" has little to do with our usual use of the term.

[MHalblaub]

27. The preface of the scholl board is OK!

It's a very scientific approach of the school board to understand what science is about.

No real scienstist would ever make a statment that his approach is fact. Neither Einstein nor Newton did. Did Darwin?

Scientific theories are attempts to discribe what happend, happens or will happen.

There are gaps in Newton's theory as we knew nowadays. But the gaps don't make his theory useless. We can construct skyscrapers without relying on Einstein (But we should for glass facades otherwise we would sweat to dead on summer days).

What I prefere teachers to do is to preface each lesson in scientific classes with that statement physics, chemistry and even maths.

And when he has to verify the theories.

"Intelligent design" - How can you explain with that theory W.

[EC]

28. We went through this shit in the 50's

why do we have to go backward? They can teach creationism in Sunday School, in public schools teach Science in Science class. For goodness sakes when is this kind of shit going to stop?

[goodboy]

30. what are the "gaps" in the theory?

maybe it's the gaps in their inbred-redneck brain pans.

[sarcasmo]

31. The Earth is not round it is flat, LMFAO.

Nice to finally see someone stand up to these psycho's who try and force their beliefs on others.

[Mithras61]

33. Urm... actually, it isn't round...

it's more pear shaped... (I know, but I just had to say it :))

[NYC]

34. Oblate spheroid.

(last I heard)

[stepnw1f]

37. Creationists Should Test the Theory of Gravity...

In all seriousness, where is their evidence that Creationism is anything but a story backed by emotion and insecurity?

How dare they dismiss over a hundred years of hard work from people within the science community, past and present, just to legitimize their own beliefs. Because of this WE have to marginalize science, and treat their hair-brained answer for our origins as an equivalent? For what? Why? Will it really make them feel better or reaffirm their already weak faith? I doubt it!

When did they become a Religion anyway? 1985?

Talk about a "special interest group". Special indeed...

[VirginiaDem]

38. For all intents and purposes evolution is a fact

not a theory. In fact, this is how Stephen Jay Gould used to phrase it, if memory serves. This is the same Gould who the creationists so shamelessly used to support their cause over his constant, strenuous objections. Evolution is a fact--natural selection is a theory.

[TroubleMan]

40. The Pythagorean Theorem is "theory" too

But we make billion dollar machines, and people fly in airplanes because of science, some of it based off of this "theory."

So all these people should say that airplanes flying is not a "fact" either.

[yellowcanine]

41. Err-mathematical theorums are not scientific theories. They can be proven

I know because I had to do the proofs in Ms. Keefer's geometry class.

A scientific theory cannot be proven but it can have its predictions tested - which has worked out very well for the Theory of Evolution, which is why it is still accepted.

[TroubleMan]

42. That's exactly my point

nt.

[Nevernose]

46. More BS from the red-state South!

We should either let them secede or cut them out of the union!

[RubyDuby in GA]

51. Since when is Pennsylvania considered part of the South?

Unless you're Canadian, then I guess it is south to you.
We have enough psychotic fundies. Don't try pawning more off on us. We're all full. No vacancies.

But I am in favor of cutting South Carolina out. Can we just do that and call it a day?

[Merlin]

56. Since James Carville pronounced it so (or at least part of it).

"Pennsylvania is Philadelphia on one end, Pittsburg on the other end, and Alabama in the middle." -- James "Serpenthead" Carville

[Mike Niendorff]

49. Up next : the germ theory of disease

I mean, where's the equal time for leeches and bloodletting?

(Whoops, pardon me. I meant "Scientic Leechism". There, that sounds better.)


MDN

[Montanan]

60. "Complexity" not proof of creator

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if, as these creationists claim, the complexity of life on earth is proof that it had an intelligent creator (God), we must then ask who created God, who is necessarily even MORE complex than his creation.

Of course, if you present a creationist with that sort of logical follow-up, they'll likely to say you're "Of Satan", and just end the conversation.

[Merlin]

65. Complexity IS proof of a Creator, just not proof of bible mythology.

First let's clarify "complexity." As used by Behe in "Darwin's Black Box," irreducible complexity, particularly of certain components of the eye, can't possibly have "evolved" because they comprise a multitude of individual systems none of which by itself would have offered the kind of "advantage" that would have allowed it to survive the evolutionary process. Others argue the individual component systems could have evolved for other purposes, just as feathers originally evolved for reasons unrelated to flight--for which they are an essential component.

This dispute remains unresolved. Behe's theory--even if proven correct--doesn't disprove evolution. It just indicates there are aspects of it we don't yet understand.

However there is also the "Complexity" of the universe. It is indisputable that such complexity did not just "happen" and is the consequence of a higher intelligence and power than humans--unless we think some human being created the universe early on. ;-)

The question "Then who created God" is irrelevant. We can't even answer the question of what this higher power or creative force is, let alone where it came from. Hell, we don't even understand how aspirin works yet!

Whatever the creative force is, it's clear it uses logic and reason, the essentials of what we humans understand as mathematics and physics, as the building blocks of all functions in the universe (except personalities). The awesome complexity of everything in the universe--and especially of biological systems--is overwhelming evidence of unfathomable brilliance. The evolutionary process itself, driven by mutation, competition and the magnificence of DNA, is a key component of of this genius beyond measure.

Just because the god of the bible is a myth doesn't mean there is/was no creative force behind the universe. There is/was. And it is way more awesome than anything the religionists can fathom in their brainwashed state of latter day idol worship.

[gauguin57]

64. "Nightline" did a piece on this on Thursday.

ABC's John Donvan cornered one of the school board members in Dover, PA, who COULD NOT, to save her life, EXPLAIN what Intelligent Design was even supposed to be! It was hilarious. She kept handing him a fax with a definition of it. He kept asking her to explain how SHE understood it. She just talked in circles. He said the other board members couldn't explain it, either.

So, the board members are not only going backward in time, they don't even understand what the hell it is they're voting for.

There was this police officer who spoke at a school board meeting about the intelligent design curriculum, saying something like, "There was a certain man who died on the cross for us 2000 years ago. He stood up for us; shouldn't we be willing to stand up for HIM?"

I was slack-jawed. I am embarrassed to live one county over from these bozos. I don't know why I should expect anything different; the Klan is still active in York County!

[Merlin]

66. Fundamentalism is evidence that traditional religion is dying.

It may not seem to us that this is true right now. But in their guts most intelligent believers know there is no invisible man in the sky, there is no hell, there is no heaven, angels don't exist, the book of Genesis is a mixture of fairy tales and tribal mythology, and Christianity's emphasis on atonement, mysticism and faith-not-works are evidence of a concerted effort to divert attention away from the true message of Jesus and onto religious hocum.

Western religions, grounded in the mythology of the bible, are dying.

What is missing is a new, contemporary, 21st century explanation for the awesome wonders of the universe that surround us.

[Robb]

68. Interesting; historically, has fundamentalism

...preceded the "death" of religions before? Not my subject. :shrug: