Middle Class Barely Treads Water

[Beetwasher]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/11851503

Millions of middle-class families can no longer afford to live on two incomes.

--snip--

All part of the plan...

[bleedingheart]

1. I got sick reading that article...

I fear for what is going to happen...

"To economize, they moved into a cheaper apartment and sold one of two cars. But Jeremy made only $12,000 in his first year as a financial adviser for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, and they paid $500 a month for health insurance. "I felt like I was drowning," Emily says."

$12,000 a year at Morgan Stanley...??!!??? That has to be before commissions...but even so... no wonder they try to scam people into buying stuff...its the only way they can eat...

[Maeve]

2. A major problem is folks buying too much house

It's no longer "buy a fixer-upper and trade up"; too many folks are going straight for the big new home and hoping their income grows enough to keep the payments reasonable. Then one gets laid off and ffffttttt! Hello, bankrupcy.
My mortgage is less than rent in our area. The house is kinda small for six people, but it's affordable.

[spinbaby]

3. Not possible in many areas

If you live in LA, you can't buy decent housing for less than $200,000. San Franscisco is worse.

[Maeve]

5. While that is true for some areas, most places aren't that high

Here in the midwest (Ohio), I see lots of folks over-extending themselves. It was a good plan in the 90's, but now is a killer.

[trogdor]

9. Then there's the neighborhood to consider.

What good does a small mortgage do when you have to fork over big $$$ every month to ADT for a security system? What good does home ownership do if you are afraid to go outside? Don't even get me started on school systems. That's a discussion in and of itself.

Best bet (also easier said than done) is to rent for awhile and make your downpayment bigger. Sooner or later, you have to unload that fixer-upper, but if it's in a bad neighborhood, lots of luck.

Of course, you could get lucky. It pays to shop around.

[Maeve]

12. Older homes are often good investments

I'm in a firmly middle-class area in a less fashionable suburb where the houses are @ 40-50 years old. Smaller homes, less garage space but sidewalks, within walking distance to schools and groceries. House is worth 1/3 more than when we bought it 7 years ago and since the schools & services are decent (not great, but decent),it will continue to be a favorable market for some time to come.

Absolutely shop around and know what you're getting.

[shanti]

14. i'm in sacramento

and bought my first home, a 2BR halfplex, in 1996 for 67000. i have people calling, writing, begging me weekly to sell. i'm sure i could get at least double what i paid, but then where would i go??

the problem is the bay area folks have moved here en masse with the equity from their high cost homes and generally outbid the people FROM sacramento. i never saw prices here in sacramento like this before...and i WON'T sell.

[lanlady]

4. that's so true

I just had a terrible, painful row with a close family member who was about to sacrifice his family's future solvency by buying a big-ticket house with a "media center" and 2 extra bedrooms they'll never use. They house they live in now is fully paid for, has plenty of room, but it's a basic ranch with no "sex appeal." They should be counting their lucky stars instead of plunging into mind-boggling mortgage debt just so they can play "keep up with Joneses."

I think--I hope--I talked them out of it.

[shrike]

15. Having lived on the East Coast and now in the Midwest

Buying an affordable home in a decent neighborhood is difficult in the East. In the Midwest, however, it's possible to find an older home with no bells and whistles. We live in a solidly middle class area. There's no cache to living here, but the housing stock is solid and the schools good. Around here you're better off buying an older home, IMO. New construction is often shoddy.

[mhr]

6. The Illusion of Great Wealth

All part of the Republican Plan.

Democrats can win on Class Warfare issues.

Its time they start doing so!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

7. Where I live....

mostly white suburbanites think that they are rich so they support thre Republicans all the way! Maybe they will change now!!!
They aren't so rich anymore!

[bluedog]

8. the states

some people may not or care not to notice but prices on everyday items are rising....

Here in Fl....Jebby is going to let the phone companies raise rates....the Cable Roadrunner is going up...water and sewer is rising this month....now in my county Pinellas,,,the brain dead panel is seeking to add 6 cents tax per gallon for gas.....
their reason is to pay to repair roads and to make traffic flow better.....

States don't have to raise taxes...the companies the governor gives tax breaks to......just add it on.....also our insurance rates are out of control.....anybody notice.....No? The Republican run state don't give a shit and doesn't care what people say!!!!

[BiggJawn]

16. Democrat-run states are no better.

I know it's not nice to speak ill of the recently-departed, but everything you're experiencing in FL is going on up in IN, too. Phone rates, Cable rates (and we live far enough out of town that it's either cable or shades of 1953 and "I think I see something!") Water, Sewer, Gasoline, Cigarettes (a BIG sore-spot with me!)

It all just keeps going up and up, and most the increases are either because "the government allows us to collect this much" or it's taxes.
And this crap got started LONG before the "Bush-Cheney Economic MIRACLE"...

There IS no "Middle Class" anymore. just people like me who are just now finding out that they're really "Working Poor".

[w4rma]

27. Democrats try to keep anti-trust laws and anti-cartel laws in effect

We're losing the battle. The DLC (not the DNC) is happy for us to lose the battle, IMHO.

[teryang]

21. I'm with you!

The price of just about everything in Florida is completely out of control. Especially utilities, insurance of all types, and state and local taxes.

Jeb sucks. He's a fraud and a thief:

Destin Country Club Savings and Loan fraud
International Medical Corporation Medicare Fraud
Election 2000 fraud
State Pension Fund Enron fraud.

What more do people need to know? He's a criminal.

[DemNoir]

10. "We just have to trust in God to help us."

Our president would be very happy to hear them say that.

[Eumenides]

11. It is getting worse...

Homelessness Grows as more live Check to Check

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2003-08-11-homeless_x.htm

• Families with children are among the fastest-growing segment of the homeless population, according to the National Coalition for the Homeless. The Conference of Mayors found that 41% of the homeless are families with children, up from 34% in 2000. The Urban Institute reports about 23% of the homeless are children.

[prolesunited]

17. I recall reading that article

and found it very distressing. Thanks for posting that link and welcome to DU, Eumenides.

[shrike]

13. This was my life in the early '90s

Except that I was single then with no children. I'd lost two jobs in six months, had no unemployment benefits to draw from. I was living off my credit card. Fortunately, I had the foresight to rent a very cheap apartment (tiny, but in a safe area) and the luck to land two lucrative accounts as an independent contractor. I was able to pay off $5,000 in credit card debt in less than a year. I've often wondered what it had been like if I'd had a family to support. Now I know.

[BiggJawn]

18. And mine in the early 80's.

I had a family to support, though. I did it on $98 a week and food stamps. My mom paid off what I owned on our trailer, the lot rent was only $45 a month, and we didn't have cable.

Of course, some times we didn't have electricity or heat, either, but usually only for a day or two until I got paid...

[buckfush2]

19. a combination of two things is ruining many families

1.) the above mentioned "gotta have" syndrome, not only MUST we have a huge house in a swanky neighborhood,but also the biggest baddest SUV on the market, a state of the art entertainment system, and high priced designer clothes and jewelry. of course when you see this crap advertised 24/7, you do think you need it, so you go further into debt to get it.

2.) everything costs more, and wages aren't keeping up. "deregulation" benefits no one except corporate shareholders and CEOs, but we buy the line that the free market will work miracles. then the bigger bills come in and we shake our heads and think it must be inflation or something.

solution? turn off the TV. My wife and I have a very adequate home in a safe, pretty neighborhood. It's 45 years old(like me!) but is very sound and has plenty of room for our growing family. we dont drive suvs, spend a lot on restaurants (fast food is NOT cheap, or fast, or even any good) or buy the latest crap, and we don't crave it, because we only use the TV for videos and dvds (which we rent at the dollar video or get from the library).
our house payment is only 10% of our combined salaries as teachers, so we are able to save a little every month, have no credit card debt, live and eat quite well.

as for things costing more, when there are options, or you can do without, you should. the things that companies have monopolies on (utilities, gasoline, etc.) you are stuck with, but conservation can keep it minimal.

TURN OFF YOUR TV!Think before you buy! Live within your means!

[losthope]

20. I have a problem with Pamela Robins

She has three children, ages 5,11 and 12 and she split from the children.s father ten years ago?????

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. What's your problem with her?

[boilertommy]

24. Middle Class Needs

The bar keeps going up on what people need to feel Middle Class. When I was a kid in the 50s my Dad had a small CapeCod house, a Plymouth or Chevy and one B&W television. My Mother raised the kids and everybody was happy and properly Middle Class. That would be considered poverty by some folks today.

People worry too much about the "right" schools. If your kids are smart they'll do OK. I owned a modest house in a Working Class neighborhood with so-so schools. But both my daughters had no problem getting into the U of I Urbana-Champaign, one girl was accepted at NorthWestern and the U of Chicago as well. So if your kids perform you needn't obsess about the right school district and all that nonsense.

Anyway I raised four kids in that modest little house and all the kids turned out OK. I look back to many happy memories there, it ain't the house that matters, it's what goes on inside it that does.

[prolesunited]

23. Where to begin on this one?

It would help to know exactly what your problem is, but I'm guessing that it's because she didn't stay with her husband for the sake of the children. Do we know why she isn't with him? Maybe he beat her, maybe he was an alcoholic, maybe he was a compulsive gambler. Maybe he simply was in the way of her leading a happy and fulfilling life.

Or could it be that she has a 5-year-old? Probably wasn't with her ex. How dare she have a child out of wedlock?!?

You know who I have a problem with. The men in this situation. Doesn't seem like she is receiving financial support from them. She didn't make these children all by herself. Just because the relationship has dissolved doesn't mean the men's financial obligation to their children is over.

I just can't believe how society beats up on single mothers. Not only are their lives hard enough trying to often single-handedly support and take care of their families, but then they have to deal with the perception that they are somehow bad or failures.

[tjdee]

25. Thank you--I am one.

And twice now on this board I've heard people make backhanded comments about single mothers and it's made me more than a little irritated.

Believe me, single mothers already feel like shit because of the situation they're in and have created for their children, and every single day they have to look it right in the face. Snide comments from people who are "better" or "made better choices" or are just plain lucky, who have NO IDEA what it's like or what happened, don't help anybody.

[catzies]

28. I am/was one too.

I mean, I'm STILL a mom, and still single, but my daughter is grown and has flown the nest.

But in the 80s and 90s we got by on just my income w/no child support (long story) or any government assistance, and I became politically active (as opposed to just informed) during the campaigns of '88 and '92 when BushQuayle derided/and denigrated me and told me I "shouldn't exist."

It was difficult to be doing the "right thing," but at the same time the media everywhere told you you were scum. :mad:

[prolesunited]

30. If you see people make negative comments like that

call them on it. You can do it in a respectful way. Perhaps they don't realize how their comments will be perceived or haven't seen the situation from your side. With some, you won't change their perceptions, but you might open a few minds.

I think the fact that we come from such a wide range of backgrounds and life experiences is what makes DU so incredible. I've had my perceptions change on a whole variety of people and topics since I've been here.

[iam]

26. Trust in god?

These people in the story didn't say a word about conservatives rewarding credit card companies with new laws making it easier for the CC companies to sieze assets. One of these morons is looking for god to fix the problem.

[ikojo]

29. Fundamentalist religion is what keeps

people from FIGHTING for change. People who believe G-d will take care of everything do not get off their duffs and advocate for change. IMHO, G-d DEMANDS action on your part. If the world is messed up then we are called to help improve it.

Oy vey! What a defeatist attitude to think that G-d will take care of everything.

Just today someone in my department was laid off and was he mad? No, he said it's business. When will people become angry and divert that anger to action?

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

[study_war_no_more]

32. Jesus does not love the Bomb

contrary to what FOX reports. If the middle class is sweating what of those that no longer dream but exist from check to check? What happens to a dream deferred is a question that decides the future of democracy.

[tom_paine]

31. Sad, but welcome to Imperial Amerika

where there is no middle-class.

Ok ok, not yet it hasn't gotten that bad but soon...

[teryang]

33. timing makes a lot of difference

Economic trends such as unemployment, inflating prices, declining retail sales etc., affect whether or not you can put the relatively inexpensive older home in an acceptable neighborhood with the job you are lucky enough to have.

I had a bargain home in a working class neighborhood which had a lot going for it in 1994. I really miss it now. It was convenient, near parks and the beach, etc., in an established area Since Florida has a magnet school program, I didn't have to worry about the neighborhood schools with the tainted reputations once my child got past sixth grade. Schools do make a big difference. My daughter academically could go to any of the magnet schools in the county. If she had to go to the neighborhood zoned school she would have had some serious problems. I know because in the zoned grammar schools we did have problems. Unfortunately, I had to give up my old home to take a better job and move, because of declining sales where I was.

For my new home, I tried the same strategy. Not the best neighborhood. Only problem, houses below the market average were twice what I paid for the old home. Taxes are twice as the old home. Insurance is four times the old home. The utilities cost more as well. In short the community is a rip off.

Had I moved here two years earlier I could have saved tens of thousands of dollars. But that isn't how real life works. You can get real smug about economic planning, but after several bouts of unemployment, the stock market bubble wrecking family investments, and having businesses go sour, one recognizes that no amount of planning is going to guarantee an improved economic situation. I hesitate to think what will happen to my family ecomically should I become unemployed, ill or disabled at this point. I'm lucky to have recovered my losses since 2000. But my debt situation is way out of line with what I considered acceptable three years ago. The only thing I could do about it was keep the interest as low as possible while making the biggest down payments I thought I could afford.

The other stuff about not buying what you don't need is just common sense.

[Noordam]

34. The Nurse in one of the middle-class homes will probably

lose her overtime pay if bush has his way