Gallup Poll 9/15: Clark Surges Ahead to 10%

[Avalux]

After 2 weeks, Clark jumps from 2% to 10% and appears to be drawing evenly from all other candidates, although Kerry may be the most affected:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030915.asp

[Beetwasher]

1. Clark is Going to Re-define the Entire Race

His candidacy will frame the debate...

[kstewart33]

2. Watch out, here he comes

I agree. When Clark jumps in, all bets are off. Prediction--he will lead the Dem pack by January 1. Organization--he don't need no organization, guys. Momentum is like that.

[Larkspur]

3. Oh Puleeze!

Clark has never run for poliical office before and he'll be shocked that civilians don't act like privates in an army. He won't be able to order them around, and how is he going to react when they criticize him over the tiniest things, like the color of tie he's wearing at a debate?

[Avalux]

4. He will?

And how do you know these things? Please research the man before making such gross generalizations. Thanks.

[ArkDem]

10. >generalizations<

Hey, that was pretty good!

[Avalux]

11. thanks

no pun intended! :bounce:

[damnraddem]

42. At least he didn't go for the ...

privates.

[Trajan]

5. Awww SHOOT ! ....

Does THIS mean we have to salute him with a hearty "Zeig Heil" everyday ??? ....

Perhaps worship and offer sacrifices at his neighborhood temples ? ..

Methinks thou doth protest too much ....

[ewagner]

17. No

You're mistaking him for Bush........that's where the Zieg heil's are directed.

[schultzee]

27. Its bu$h who is such a prima donna that he won't take a hard question

and I think Wesley Clark can do that. Ike did just fine. I like Dean a whole lot and whould like to see them together.

[damnraddem]

43. I was at the Tom Harkin Steak Fry this weekend.

The Clark people were working the crowd. They kept coming up to we Dean people to try to convince us how wonderful the General was. We kept saying "We know he's great. He should be on the ticket -- as VP with Dean."

[DogKing]

6. HEAR! HEAR!

I worry about a career military officer becoming the President. I just don't see him having (sorry, I have to say it...) enough gravitas.

[Avalux]

8. It would be wise

to look past the word "General", read a bit about Clark and listen to him speak. You will be pleasantly surprised.

www.draftwesleyclark.com
www.wesleyclarkweblog.com
www.leadershipforamerica.org
www.digitalclark.com

[Donna Zen]

35. Many people would be surprised

True. However, hating the military to the point of de-humanizing and marginalizing other people, as many on this board seem to, will end up hurting the Dems and cutting off all curiousity.

[Trajan]

9. One reporter's opinion ....

[Richardo]

12. We could do a lot worse than another Ike...

Shit, we ARE doing a lot worse than another Ike.

In much the same way as they used to say that "only Nixon could go to China" (because of his anti-Communist history), only a general can give the Pentagon budget the scrutiny it needs and make the cuts necessary. His credentials provide the teflon to do it.

A military man/Rhodes Scholar would make a lot more realistic evaluations on the effectiveness of the application of military power, unlike the Rambo-marinated chickenhawks in charge now.

[Zero Gravitas]

18. Career Military Officer

IMO it is better to have someone who served in the military in office than a chicken-hawk who has no first hand understanding of what "war" means. So long as Clark doesn't start wearing a military uniform in office I for one don't mind that he is a former general.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. Sarcasm Is Apparently Lost on You

Trajan likes Clark very much.

As for your ridiculous "gravitas" comment, Clark probably has more gravitas than 2/3s of the field. He practically oozes gravitas, which you'd know if you ever saw him speak.

DTH

[schultzee]

28. Remember Eisinhower? He was seriusly a career Military Officer.

But he became a Repukelican president. He handled himself graciously.

[OKNancy]

36. Hey dog

did you see yesterday when I pointed out to you that your signature was made popular by GENERAL Stilwell. I think it's funny.

[Renew Deal]

7. Nay, Nay, Nay

He's never done this and that. Well he is doing it. "he'll be shocked that civilians don't act like privates in an army." What will he find out, that soldiers don't want to be treated with respect adn civilians do? Read his book, you will find out that he didn't just get his way because he was an american soldier. He had to work hard with other people to get things done. His job was to protect us, others jobs aren't as critical, but that doesn't mean that people don't want to be treated with respect.

[shihtzu5]

31. Clark's Book

What is the name of the next President of the United States book, please?

[Renew Deal]

41. Waging Modern War...

The new one will be Winning Modern War.

[tjdee]

15. He's not a deranged psychopath, Jeebus!

We don't know how he'll react?

What is he, some kind of homicidal maniac?

Has he been locked up in some institution, that we don't know how he'll act with the "civilians"?

Give me a break, LOL, that's hilarious.

[calimary]

48. The deranged psychopath is in the White House at the moment.

With all his deranged psychopath friends.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

20. Yawn

Still grinding that axe, I see. You might want to pick another meme to push; this one is so weak it can't be taken seriously by anyone reasonable.

DTH

[Larkspur]

24. Nope, not grinding an ax

I'm not impressed that Clark, a political neophyte, is playing "Johnny come lately" into the Prez political forum. He will have to EARN his votes, just like the others. He's missed most of the campaign tours and debates and therefore the chance to meet with many voters in key states.

Dean's campaign is a formidable juggernaut and I think that Clark knows it, else he would have jumped in over Labor Day weekend.

I think that Clark would make a great Secretary of Defense. That's more in line with his talents that Prez or VP.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

26. No One's Saying You Have to Be Impressed

I just have a problem with the unfair criticism, especially that criticism which is based solely on scurrilous rumor and hearsay, such as the charges you leveled above.

DTH

[schultzee]

29. He would be a perfect VP. He would know more about handling the

Iraq mess that our dumbballs president created than the real power behind the presidency, Chaney and Rummy. All those quys want is to pay off their buddies. Career military men know how bad war is and I doubt one would have done something as stupid as bu$h.

[Larkspur]

39. The VP usually doesn't deal with foreign affairs personally

His constituional job is to break a tie in the senate. That means a VP Clark would have to keep tabs on what is going on in the senate so that he could break a tie, should that happen. If he's traveling around the globe putting our fires, he can't do his Constitutional duty.

Now as Secretary of Defense or State, he could focus more on foreign affairs than domestic issues.

[Brotherjohn]

13. I agree. Between Clark and Dean... (both strong critics of the war)

... and the strong support they seem to be pulling out of thin air, the Democratic Party (and the more mainstream Dem candidates) will have to realize that if they want to get any votes from actual Democrats, they might have to be a little more critical of Bush on Iraq.

It will tend to make Iraq a bigger issue than if, say, Lieberman set the tone, and Iraq were not an issue at all.

[papau]

22. Do we really think Gallup gives honest poll results - or GOP biased?

Congressman Dick Gephardt
Former Vt. Gov. Howard Dean
U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman
U.S. Senator John Kerry
Retired Gen. Wesley Clark

Sept. 8-10
16, 14, 13, 12 10

And the above means what? - Will he or won't he stories causing increasing name recognition would be my answer

[schultzee]

30. All the poles are fixed by the GOP now. Wear your anyone but bush

T shirt and you will have Democrats come out of the closet, at least here in the south. Many have stopped to give me an earfull about how horrendous bu$h is, and they said they would vote for anyone but bu$h.

[central scrutinizer]

14. Michael Moore supports Clark

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0913-06.htm

excerpt:

In addition to being first in your class at West Point, a four star general from Arkansas, and the former Supreme Commander of NATO -- enough right there that should give pause to any peace-loving person -- I have discovered that...


1. You oppose the Patriot Act and would fight the expansion of its powers.


2. You are firmly pro-choice.


3. You filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court in support of the University of Michigan's affirmative action case.


4. You would get rid of the Bush tax "cut" and make the rich pay their fair share.


5. You respect the views of our allies and want to work with them and with the rest of the international community.


6. And you oppose war. You have said that war should always be the "last resort" and that it is military men such as yourself who are the most for peace because it is YOU and your soldiers who have to do the dying. You find something unsettling about a commander-in-chief who dons a flight suit and pretends to be Top Gun, a stunt that dishonored those who have died in that flight suit in the service of their country.

[w13rd0]

16. You left out the first statement in that letter...

..."this is not an endorsement"...

I too encourage Clark to enter the race if he wishes to do so, we could do far worse than to have several strong voices out there pointing out how we could be doing better...

[ronnykmarshall]

21. Impressive numbers!

I agree that if Clark jumps in, the whole race will change. Not to mention some major poo-poo in W's panties!

[nolabels]

33. "W's panties", who would of known?

:bounce:

[stickdog]

23. Notice how well Dean does among those who ALWAYS vote. (NT)

Also note that Dean's standing amoung moderates and independents nationwide is low. However, in NH, where they are paying attention, his standing among moderates and independents is the highest of the candidates by far.

This suggests that nationwide, the Rovian strategy of calling Dean "too liberal" is currently working. However, once voters get to know Dean, they'll realize this charge is full of shit -- just like the unelectable charge.

[trapper914]

55. Unelectable

As the righties are quick to point out, Reagan was called unelectable prior to the '80 election.

[CMT]

25. This number, according to the poll, is encouraging for Dean

Dean is in first place with 20% among voters who say that "they always vote" which in a primary situation is important. Also Dean has a solid lead among Liberal voters who make up a big percentage of voters who participate in Democratic primaries and caucuses.

Still, this is a good showing by Clark and proof that his strategy of keeping his name before the public appearing frequently on television while mulling a run is paying off. If he continues to build strength is yet to be seen as is who he would hurt by his getting into the race.

[dkamin]

32. Dean vs. Clark

1) i think bickering is stupid. either one is clearly a dramatic improvement over Shrub.
2) i support(ed) Dean. i don't think anyone who follows dem. politics actually believes dean is too liberal. what has drawn progressives to him is his (heretofore) propensity to just speak the truth, without hedging his bets. in a time when our "leaders" are men like daschle and lieberman, who would probably respond to a Bush proposal to abolish congress with a half-measure to just abolish the House, it's frankly refreshing to hear a man basically call it like it is: the Bush junta are a bunch of thieving liars, and the media is complicit in its national fraud.
3) my major concern about Dean is his charisma/presence, or lack thereof. having seen him several times, once in person, he strikes me as being grossly underwhelming in a lot of the areas, which are, unfortunately, important in the modern TV politician era. in a perfect world, these things wouldn't matter, but we obviously don't live in a perfect world, and i'm a little concerned that dean would get destroyed in a head-to-head matchup with Shrub and his $200 million+. he's not a good public speaker, he comes off as dry and uptight, and he has a terrible visage for TV.

4) whereas, wesley clark is smooth, well-spoken, articulate, well-mannered, and handsome in a sort of fatherly-figure type way. his resume is also impeccable, and can enable him to attack bush, with less fear of a devastating counterattack, on foreign policy as well as domestic.

5) my ideal candidate is kucinich. however, my foremost concern is kicking bush back to crawford, full-time. and i think clark is probably more electable than dean, without givign up too much in terms of the things i believe in (which, e.g., lieberman would do).

[curse10]

34. Who keeps saying they are going to vote for Joe?

Once Dick and Joe drop out of the race (and I'm pretty sure most of us agree that will happen) the whole thing is up in the air.

[reprobate]

37. Why do some here so hate the military?

If you hate what they have done in the past, don't hate the military, hate the polititians. The military does nothing but what the politicians tell them to do.

If you hate what the line troops have done, don't hate the military, hate the volunteer army. They have become mercinaries, with little ties to the rest of us.

If you just plain hate war, I have no arguement with you. So does anyone who has served.

[ozone_man]

38. I suppose you're right, it's hard to separate these sometimes.

Still, at this point, I think we are in need of someone with experience in running government, balancing the budget, etc. It is the economy that is ailing, and it only gets worse from here in the next 5 years.

Bush made this war for several reasons, but one was certainly to provide a distraction from the economic mess we are in, not to mention the rally around the flag aspect. I'm a little sick of the emphasis on our military objectives right now, whatever they may actually be. JMHO

[returnable]

40. More to Clark than the 4 stars...

The General has made a point of addressing the failures of Bush's economic policies.

His platform will NOT just be about the Iraq conflict.

[ozone_man]

45. I think he would make a great VP for Dean.

He might make a great president as well, but my preference is to not have a military man in the top position. We already have too much emphasis on the military. Let's focus on the devastating economic issues, as well as social, health, education, etc., not trying to be world cop and making future generations pay for it.

[cg]

47. Clark has economist credentials, too

Wesley Clark can work with numbers as well as ideas. I've been listening to everything I can find about him, especially speeches and inteviews, and he's got all the bases covered.

I think he can put budgets together with the best of them!:)

[Larkspur]

44. I don't hate the military. I think that the Clark supporters who think

that the General is the white knight who will ride in and save the Dem Party and country from Bush, are naive.

Political campaigning is very different from military campaigning because the target is winning voters approval, not destroying infrastructure and peopl, and voters are not privates in an army, who have to accept what ever leader is imposed upon them. Voters can be very fickle and General Clark will have to prove to me that he knows how to campaign and win and keep civilian voters' approval.

I didn't become a Dean supporter instantly. After Gore bowed out in December, I gave all the candidates a chance to impress me, and Dean is the only one who did. Dean earned my support and his customer orientated campaign has earned my loyalty.

Clark is WAY BEHIND the game folks and he's got ZERO political campaign experience. I'm not impressed with Clark just because he's a general who has a similar position that Dean has on the Iraq War. He will have to earn my support and right now he will have a hard time seducing me away from Dean, who has empathy with the common American.

[Avalux]

46. No one said he's a white knight

but some of us think he will be able to make a difference. Yes he's a general and will put some folks off, but he also holds degrees in economics, politics and philosophy. He's a licensed investment banker. Any time I've ever heard him speak, he is able to hold the audience's attention. Any time I've ever heard him interviewed, he is clearly in charge.

Give Clark a chance instead of discounting him before he even announces. I don't buy the empathy angle - Dean grew up privileged and doesn't know what it's like to be a common American. He may feel sorry for us, but he's not one of us.

[Larkspur]

49. I've met Howard Dean twice and he does have empathy

with common people, like me. I've found him funny and with the same sense of wit and humor that Harry Truman had. He's brusque with the press, but treats the general public with respect. When I met him, he greeted me like a newfound friend and was glad to meet me. That experience cemented my loyalty to Dean and inspired me to work hard to win Eastern CT for him.

I've never met Clark and I'm not impressed with someone running for President with zero civilian political credentials but lots of military ones. I find it arrogant on his part that he thinks he can enter an already crowded field late in the race with zero political campaign experience and governance. It's like he's trying to be a Democratic Eisenhower, and my mother, who was a World War II vet, did not like Eisenhower as president.

I'm one of those Dean supporters whose enthusiasm does not transfer, should Dean lose the nomination. It has to be earned, and Clark has a long way to go to earn it.

[Avalux]

50. Well

I guess since your mother didn't like Eisenhower you shouldn't like Clark.
Sounds logical to me.

Shame you won't try to find out about Clark instead of labeling him arrogant. Maybe if you'd meet him, he'd change your mind.

[Larkspur]

51. When's he going to be in Connecticut?

I don't have a problem meeting Clark. I'm just not intereted in going to Arkansas.

Regarding Eisenhower, he was the general in command of allied forces in Europe, but as president he helped overthrow a democracy in Iran in 1953 and used the marines to overthrow a socialist government in Nicaragua because one of Fruit Companies didn't want the peasants to have economic justice. Eisenhower became a tool for big business. If Clark accepts Clinton's backers' money, will Clark become a whore for corporate interests, like Eisenhower? Dean's base is the average citizen contributing $25, $50, $100 or more.

My intent with the last post about Eisenhower was that just because a Prez candidate was a good general, doesn't mean that they will be a good president or presidential candidate. Eisenhower in 1952 had the FULL support of the Republican Party and no competition in the Republican primary. He was also the victorious general of World War II, and that made a lot of citizens, many of whom fought in that war, support him. Clark was a very able general, but he does not have the same aura that Eisenhower had, and Clark will be entering a crowded field of Democratic Presidential candidates, and if he announces this Friday that he is running, Hurricane Isabel could drown out his message.

[ozone_man]

56. Interesting that he warned of the military industrial complex

when he left office. Guilt feelings? I had a I like Ike button, like millions of Americans back then. Saw him at the Airport when I was 5. Years later, it pissed the hell out of me when I first learned about these CIA coups (e.g., Iran, Nicaragua) that led to all the trouble down the road that we still involved in. Important to keep a division of military and government, just like church and state. We have a religous/military junta now. Lets change to something completely different (Democracy).

Clark would be great as a VP or Secretary of State/Defense, etc. I want a civilian for Pres.

[Julien Sorel]

57. Clark is a civilian.

[ozone_man]

60. Technically, but you know what I mean.

He's a military man.

[Julien Sorel]

53. ???????????

I've never met Clark and I'm not impressed with someone running for President with zero civilian political credentials but lots of military ones. I find it arrogant on his part that he thinks he can enter an already crowded field late in the race with zero political campaign experience and governance. It's like he's trying to be a Democratic Eisenhower, and my mother, who was a World War II vet, did not like Eisenhower as president.


The paragraph itself is unusual, with the little bit about your mother at the end, but part of it caught my interest.

Why do you think it is 'arrogant' of Clark to think he can enter? Obviously, this poll demostrates he is a viable candidate, so what about his entering the race is 'arrogant,' your mother's dislike of Eisenhower notwithstanding?

[Larkspur]

58. Why do I think it is 'arrogant' of Clark to think he can enter?

Because he's not qualified, in my opinion, to be president. Clark has not demonstrated that he can govern in the civilian political realm. I don't trust generals being president unless they prove that they are competent to govern in a civilian political realm. The military is NOT a democracy, but our country is.

Regarding the poll, that's based upon name recognition, not ability.

Regarding my mother and Ike, my mother lived during Ike's term, and no she didn't vote for him. I wasn't born yet. Even though she was a WWII vet, she saw Ike as a pawn of the plutocrats. Remember, Ike sanctioned the overthrow of Iran's democracy in 1953 because our oil companies didn't want Iran to nationalize the oil reserves. So we, under Ike, installed a tyrant, the Shah of Iran, who was a prototype of Saddam Hussein. Today, we are still feeling the effects of that Ike decision to topple a democracy in the Middle East. Thanks to Ike and the Shah, an Islamic fundamentalist movement was formed and we are still struggling with it today.

[Julien Sorel]

59. I see.

So it is 'arrogant' of Clark to offer himself to the public, but it isn't arrogant of you to imply that the public shouldn't be given the opportunity to choose what qualities they value in leadership. Your set of criteria are supreme.

As for your drivel about Ike, every president made decisions which, with hindsight, turned out poorly. The simple fact is, though, that historians rate the Eisenhower presidency well. But then, they take into account the good as well as the bad. How outrageous of them. How fair. How arrogant of them not to look at your list of bads and conclude Eisenhower was a failure.

[Eloriel]

63. Oh goodness. How funny.

Now we have to rehabilitate Ike in order to support Clark.

Hilarious.

Eloriel

[Julien Sorel]

65. Your knowledge of history is second only to your integrity.

Eisenhower never needed 'rehabilitation.'

[roguevalley]

66. This whole thing is so sad to read.

I have good feelings about Clark but then, with the exception of Joe, I have them for all.

There is serious stereotyping and generalizing going on here and it is too bad. That is the job of the OTHER guys, to make conclusions not based on fact, to assume things that aren't based in fact and to categorically denounce, reject and mar anyone who doesn't meet some
sort of litmus test of 'facts' that make them 'perfect'. That is for the creaps to do, people.

If being a Rhodes Scholar (Clinton) and economics scholar (name another in the running), a military officer -wounded in Viet Nam-
(Kerry, others I am sure) and a man who has managed international
alliances, massive budgets, harrowing commands, divergent cultures,
difficult no-win tasks with skill and aplomb while keeping faith with the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the meaning of what the American people and the American experience standd for, then I don't know how else is qualified to run for president.

Arrogant to run?

What a sack of crap. Since when do you have to apply? Since when do you have to have an apparatus in place? Isn't this America? The more the merrier because we have TEN candidates with all their experience and good will and they have what? ONE.

Good for all of them for entering this quagmire of a profession and putting up with the crap to try and lead our country out of the darkness. They all deserve to run and they all deserve respect, every last one of them. Its time to end the carping. If you can't support one, find another. But remember, there will NEVER be another election held on this planet that has more gravity and more import than this one.

For in our hands, we hold the future of the world. The ENTIRE world.1 And god help us all, everywhere if we blow it.

God bless all the candidates, their workers and the United States. What a task, what a terrible and formidable task we have before us.

RV

[Pastiche423]

54. I agree

w/everything you said, Larkspur, especially the last paragraph. Dean has worked his ass off over the past year to earn supporters. He earned them because he went to the people and listened to them.

Clark ain't done jack.

[roguevalley]

67. So. Do we audition now? Is there a cut off date on

when to 'apply' to run?

[Julien Sorel]

52. Interesting.

Kerry and Clark fare especially well among people who follow national politics very closely, with both candidates' support falling dramatically among people who are not paying attention.

Name recognition, again. This is going to be one hell of a race.

[IndianaGreen]

61. This poll includes independents that are not likely to be primary voters

Gallup's numbers are still influenced by name recognition, which explains the exceedingly high numbers for Gephardt and Lieberman.

The poll was also taken prior to Clark's announcement.

I am interested in the polls taken after Clark's gaffe on his support for the war in Iraq.

I think Clark will hurt Kerry the most, and this is good!

[Chomskyite]

62. For me this is surprisingly low

I'd have expected him to at least be at around 15 percent upon announcing.

I just can't see him overtaking Dean. He and Trippi and the other soldiers have done too much ground-level work already. Dean is in the lead to stay. He may open it up even more as we go toward 04.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

64. Old Poll

No telling what the polls are at now. Also, the gaffe yesterday might have a negative impact as well, although I'm hoping not.

DTH

[roguevalley]

68. Give him time.

The man is a man of good will and he's answering tough questions.
I want to see every candidate in the race answer the question if
they are a liberal. I want to see the world that describes my deepest heart become as powerful again as it once was.