Iran working on nuclear bomb, says Rumsfeld

[Tinoire]

Iran working on nuclear bomb, says Rumsfeld

Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington and Jonathan Steele
Thursday June 12, 2003
The Guardian

The US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, yesterday tapped into deepening international concern about a clandestine nuclear programme in Iran, warning that Tehran was actively working to develop a bomb.
Mr Rumsfeld's remarks, delivered during a visit to Germany, appeared to be aimed at exerting pressure on Tehran and the UN's nuclear monitoring agency, which meets next week in Vienna to decide how to respond to Iran's failure to honour nuclear safeguards.

His intervention also appeared to advance the next project of Pentagon hawks: regime change in Tehran.

(snip)

"The intelligence community in the United States and around the world currently assess that Iran does not have nuclear weapons," Mr Rumsfeld said during a visit to the southern German town of Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

"The assessment is that they do have a very active programme and are likely to have nuclear weapons in a relatively short period of time."

(snip)

"We're going to actively oppose any Iranian influence in that country that attempts to make Iraq an Iran-type model and we'll do it with words to start with and we'll do it energetically," Mr Rumsfeld said. The US backs a number of exile groups, including Reza Pahlavi, the son of the former shah, who uses a satellite TV station in Los Angeles to beam anti-regime views into Iran.

(snip)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,975496,00.html

There are those troublesome phrases again...

[ET Awful]

1. And we all know how valuable Rummies word is. n/t

[cdsilv]

3. So?

Any country worried about US pre-emptive intervention knows the only way to keep it from happening is to have verifiable nukes.

I don't blame them.

[katsy]

22. ditto that sentiment.

You're absolutely right. The whole world should be actively working to defend themselves against this rouge government. Must be the way * tries to win their hearts and minds.

[ET Awful]

23. The point is I'm LESS inclined to believe it if Rummy says it.

He's just not reputable.

[TankLV]

56. I heartly concur.

I would encourage all independent countries look at ways to defend themselves against US Imperialist agression.

The US has proven it has imperialist designs on the rest of the world.

To not develope ways to defend oneself against a nation bent on ruling the whole world by conquest and destruction would be the height of irresponsibility.

What is fair for the US to do is fair for the rest of the world to do.

Now, having said that, I don't believe a thing rummy, bunkerboy and this entire gang of criminals says since they have already been proven LIARS about everything they have ever said or done.

Everything.

[metisnation]

8. This guy needs help

The Rumsfeld family should really check this guy into an institution I believe he may be dellusional and clinically insane.

[snippy]

21. He is just one of millions. Can they all be institutionalized?

Rummy is a puppet, not the puppeteer.

[UpInArms]

2. so tell us, Rummy the clueless dummy,

is their "bomb" north, south, east or west of Tehran?

STFU you freakin' moran.

[Downtown Hound]

4. Gee Donny, I could swear I've heard you say this before.

[SlowDownFast]

62. that's because he did say it before......

back in 2003:

read the post-
<Thursday June 12, 2003
The Guardian >


why is this OLD story being posted now in late breaking news?

[Kellanved]

5. What else can I say:

http://www.the365project.org/day.php?year=2003&month=2&day=8

Joschka was right the last time, after all.

[leftchick]

20. Thanks! If only we had Democrats in the US that spoke like this.

“Excuse me, I am not convinced, and I cannot go to the public and say, ‘Well, let’s go to war because there are reasons,’ and so on, and I don’t believe in that.”

— Joschka Fischer, Foreign Minister of Germany

[Zen]

6. Can you imagine if a country with a crazy religious zealot had a nuke?

Nah, I could never imagine such an awful scenario :eyes:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to war we go.

Again. And the last one worked out so nicely, too. So once again, somebody's building a nuclear bomb! The sky is falling, the sky is falling, I must run and tell the king! Uhh, Rummy, haven't we heard that line before?

[Zen]

11. We will be destroyed if we invade another country

We cannot sustain another conflict at this time - it's all posturing.

[TexasLawyer]

73. We can't sustain the war we're already in.

I thought that the run-up to Iraq was posturing, because war with Iraq made absolutely no sense. WRONG!

I don't think Bushco thinks about minor details like how we're going to pay for and staff wars. Now that he owns the media and counts all the votes, Bush and his crew can suck the U.S. treasury dry and people won't even know what happened. He can also arrange a "terrorist incident" and orchestrate media support for a draft and for doing our patriotic duty.

I hope and pray it's just posturing this time, but we have madmen and criminals running our country so anything can happen.

[Atigun]

51. Off to war we go

Nothing new here, search Tyler Kent. c1940

[MichiganVote]

9. Newsflash Dummy. The whole world is working on a nuke.

[babylonsister]

13. And if he keeps his hawklike crap up,

they'll be directed at us. Can't imagine this is to divert our attention from Iraq.:eyes:

[htuttle]

10. There's an old saying in Tennessee --

I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says,

fool me once, shame on -- shame on you.

Fool me -- can't get fooled again.

[babylonsister]

19. LOL! What an ignoramous! (not you) nt

[Horse with no Name]

48. LOL--the slaughter of the English language by shrub is

priceless.

[gollygee]

12. SSDC

Same Shit Different Country

[Bluebear]

14. Not this shit again.

And away we go~!

[baldguy]

25. Yes, it's this shit again.

[tlcandie]

15. I guess he wasn't impressed with his last SHOCK & AWE campaign..

more death/destruction/carnage................MORE< MORE MORE!!! My time is short and I need MORE MORE MORE MORE!!!! More money, more deaths, more oil, more power MORE MORE MORE MORE I say and NOW damnit!!

How will we, as human beings, be able to answer for the nightmares being unleased upon Mother Earth and this Universe due to those in power?

:cry:

[Just Me]

16. Rummie's workin' on increasing nuclear power, too.

He's an "absolute power" kinda' predator rat.

He's also absolutely corrupt!!!

[AlCzervik]

17. Iran is 4 times biger, has triple the population of Iraq

and the topogrophy is far different from Iraq...Us and what Army Darth Rumsfeld?

[Mokito]

77. Ah, the coalition of the willing, of course!

Guys?...Hey guys? Where are you going? It's the other way.

Wadcha mean...not........coming?

[NNN0LHI]

18. Got oil? Praise the lord and pass the ammunition Margret n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

24. Rumsfield's credibility is negative

WMD's in Iraq

Hill Billy armor

Letting Genl Krupinski and Spec Grainor take the rap for Bush, Cheney, Rummie himself, Dr. Wolfovitz, Dr. Cambone, Feith, Boynton.

No logistics plan for Iraq.

This dude is incompetent and a liar.

I only got as far an O-2 - and I could do a better job as SecDef.

[snippy]

26. Bush has no intention of invading Iran. He does intend to bomb it though.

I will be surprised if we do not bomb Iran sometime this year. According to Wes Clark there is a lot of ongoing discussion in Washington about the need to bomb Iran soon.

[tlcandie]

27. So, we are talking SHOCK & AWE specificially as in Hiroshima?

:cry:

[snippy]

30. Conventional bombing only I think, targeting Iran's nuclear sites.

Although Bush really, really, really wants to use a bunker busting nuke they haven't been developed yet I think.

[no safe haven]

45. The US would have to use bunker busters

If Iran is seriously developing nukes, it'd more than likely be happening underground, not in plain sight of spy satellites etc. Use of conventional weapons against Iran would be outright provocation: Iran responds and the US could then take the high moral ground and "retaliate". I think what's still needed is for those pesky aluminum tubes to be taken down off the shelf, dusted off and put into play again. Perhaps a bit of Nigerian yellowcake thrown in for good measure. Scenario complete.

[acmavm]

29. He may not INTEND to invade but for some reason I higher suspect

that if they bomb Iran it will not be just shrugged off and let slide by the Iranians. They have already (the Iranians) said that it will not be easy to hit their targets and they're not going to sit there and take it, they will retaliate.

This administration is completely incompent and completely corrupt and evil.

[snippy]

31. Bush would love it if Iran attempts to retaliate.

He could use it to foment hatred of Iran in the US and to justify an escalation of our bombing campaign.

[htuttle]

33. Iran is in the position of being able to cause a lot of damage...

...to our military in Iraq and the surrounding area. A lot more than many people think.

They have Chinese anti-ship missiles lining the Persian Gulf, scores of long range conventional ballistic missiles, a pretty decent airforce that's been recently bolstered by newer Russian planes, and millions of ground troops willing to die to protect Iran -- especially if attacked by the US. Plus, several well trained and equipped fifth column militias in Iraq, such as the Badr Brigades, etc... Not to mention much of the Shia population likely rising up, especially if they target the Iranian religious leadership.

Any one of those things could hurt pretty bad, but imagine all of them, all at once. Our 'leadership' hasn't shown itself to be particularly fast on it's feet when responding to external events. Heck, even Hussein was able to trip up initial invasion plans by lobbing a few missiles at the bases in Kuwait during the short 'air campaign' (It forced them to go ahead with the ground invasion much earlier than they'd planned).

And worst of all, you just know that any military officer that tries to bring this to the attention of the White House will get ignored, if not sacked summarily. We currently have what might be the most dysfunctional military leadership (including the CIC) of any major army anywhere, anytime in history. I can't think of any historical army that suffered the amount of grievous mistakes and unprecedented waste and corruption.

[snippy]

38. All true but none of that would deter Bush and his followers.

You make good points which support a rational argument for not bombing Iran, but neither Bush nor his followers are rational when it comes to spreading death and destruction. The bombing of Iran is almost certainly coming. We will be prepared to take additional steps at any sign of retaliation, including any troop movements. Those additional steps will be much more powerful and destructive than the initial targeted bombing.

[TexasLawyer]

71. AND to gather support for a military draft. n/t

[havocmom]

74. Under orders from Sharon?

Would think the real drive to bomb Iran would be from the Israeli war lord. Makes me wonder what all Sharon has on Rummy, Cheney, and the rest of the junta

[MasonJar]

28. Dumsfield also said that he knew exactly where Sadaam's WMD

were. Need I say more?

[tlcandie]

32. Well when you aren't real sure the exacts you just randomly hit

neighborhoods and any good place you think they might be hiding... the knowns and unknowns are hardly knowable so just massively attack randomly! Sounds about right for this regime. :cry:

[EVDebs]

34. Just more from the disinformation campaign. Up is down, down is Up.

repeat after me. Up is down, down is Up. Whatever the administration says is truth. They never make mistakes. They are true patriots and all others are not. You are either with us or against us.

[snippy]

39. True. Rummy is just laying the groundwork for what Bush already

has decided to do.

[Gman]

35. Yup... and Social Security's bankrupt

the lies just keep coming.

[pdxmom]

36. Rumsfeld, the Boy who Cried Wolf

n/t

[daleo]

37. Who could blame them?

Bush and Rumsfeld proved that not possessing nuclear weapons is an invitation for the U.S. to invade your country and kill tens of thousands of your citizens (quite possibly hundreds of thousands).

Action and reaction.

[sarcasmo]

40. Same type of lies before we invaded Iraq.

Invasion of Iran will not happen until we have had those so called elections in Iraq. You will here a lot more about Iran this summer. Rumsfeld and Condi will state that the Iranian nuke program is a threat to the United States. Then after Bushco creates fear we will invade Iran. What a nightmare this decade has turned out to be and it will only go down hill until 2008.
FYI, little man with the lifts in North Korea, be afraid, be very very afraid.

[rsmith6621]

41. PNAC Ring A Bell

[Tinoire]

42. And there's Lieberman again

in the Reza Pahlavi link. The pictures are all gone from the sites where I saw them but I KNOW I saw them cached somewhere recently. Will post when I find them.

I've been watching this one closely since Oct 92 & am reposting from an old post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=11323&forum=DCForumID60#86


<snip>

This column actually is about the work of Eleana Benador . She is one of those influential public relations folks who work behind the scenes, managing and massaging the media.
Eleana Benador runs a high-powered media relations and international Speakers bureau called Benador Associates. With offices in New York City, Paris, London, Madrid, and Geneva, she is a woman on a mission. The last time, and I must confess the first time, I heard about her activities was when Brian Whittaker, writing for Britain's The Guardian ("US think tanks give lessons in foreign policy"), described Benador's work promoting a gaggle of spokespeople that support Israel's objectives in the Middle East.
Whitaker's article painstakingly described the coterie of Middle East "experts" -- nurtured by several right-wing, and mostly Washington, DC-based think tanks -- who have come to dominate the public discourse over Middle East policy. <snip>
This domination has been aided and abetted by the work of Ms. Benador.

<snip>

Ms. Benador represents a constellation of right-wing politicos and conservative think tankers including: Alexander M. Haig, Jr., -- former Secretary of State under Ronald Reagan who currently runs Worldwide Associates, Inc., a company that assists "corporations around the world in providing strategic advice on global political, economic, commercial and security matters"; James Woolsey, -- former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency for two years under Bill Clinton and one of the earliest of drum beaters for taking out Saddam Hussein; Richard Perle -- the neoconservative icon who is one of the chief architects of Bush's Middle East policy;Charles Krauthammer, -- a regular columnist with the Washington Post who is a "hawk's hawk"; Michael Ledeen -- currently occupying the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C.; Frank Gaffney -- founder and president of the Washington, DC-based Center for Security Policy and columnist with the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Washington Times; and Arnaud de Borchgrave -- Senior Adviser and Director of the Center for Strategic and International Studies and former editor-in-chief of the Washington Times.

<snip>
((Now here's the interesting part))

Interlocking clients

The website run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq recently linked to photos of Benador that, said website contributor Drew Hamre, were "apparently taken at a meeting that included: US Senator Joseph Lieberman... anti-Arab ideologue Daniel Pipes, and -- inexplicably -- Reza Pahlavi, the former Crown Prince of Iran. Adding absurdity to inexplicability," Hamre added, "the photos are posted on the vanity website of a Philadelphia-area realtor active in Middle East politics."

Image

((Given Benador's role near the center of Perle's circle, one wonders about the implications of those photos- what is this? Is the RETURN OF THE SHAH Pt II?)

((More photos here
http://www.bobguzzardi.com/Photos/photo.htm))

<huge snip>

A recent article in the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz will give you an idea of how incredibly tangled-up these people and issues are. Akiva Eldar's piece, "Perles of wisdom for the Feithful," reports that in 1996, Richard Perle (Benador client) and Doug Feith, currently the deputy defense minister and according to Eldar "the No. 3 person in the Pentagon's hierarchy," met at the request of Benjamin Netanyahu who was then taking "his first steps as prime minister." They prepared a report for the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, a think tank with offices in Washington, DC and Jerusalem.

Perle, Feith and several others "could not have known that four years later... the working paper they prepared, including plans for Israel to help restore the Hashemite throne in Iraq, would shed light on the current policies of the only superpower in the world," Eldar writes. The paper's major theme was assuring the security of Israel. One scenario advanced was to encourage "investment in Jordan to shift structurally Jordan's economy away from dependence on Iraq; and diverting Syria's attention by using Lebanese opposition elements to destabilize Syrian control of Lebanon." (For more on this, see here.)

Grand conspiracy? No. Megalomaniacal vision of unleashed U.S. power? You bet. Helping these Dr. Strangelovian characters get their message out? Ms. Eleana Benador of Benador Associates -- priceless.

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=13915

<1> Eleana Benador's website, client listing:
http://www.benadorassociates.com/speakers.php

<2> Former Iranian Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi's website:
http://www.rezapahlavi.org/

<3> Michael Ledeen's article about the Pahlavi groundswell:
http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen080702.asp



===
(snip)

Many of the total war and creative destruction crowd get their ideas across to the public through an agency called Benador Associates, which arranges their TV appearances and speaking engagements, and helps to place their articles in newspapers.

The agency, which has offices in New York, London and Paris, is run by Eleana Benador, a Peruvian-born linguist. Since I last wrote about Ms Benador (US thinktanks give lessons in foreign policy World dispatch, August 19 2002), her business seems to have expanded remarkably.

She has added 10 more "experts" to her list of clients and, on February 13, hosted a free lunch for a question and answer session with the Pentagon's leading hardline adviser, Richard Perle.

In addition, she has started a mailing service, through which subscribers receive, free of charge, up to six daily articles. Anyone who wishes to monitor the developing thoughts of America's neo-conservatives, and can resist being offended by the content, will find a subscription informative.

Ms Benador has been busy networking on the political-social circuit, too. Although details are scarce, the website of Bob Guzzardi, a Pennsylvania property man and Israel enthusiast, shows photographs of a jolly party attended by Ms Benador along with Senator Joseph Lieberman, Representative Joseph Hoeffel, Daniel Pipes (the bete noire of American Muslims) and Reza Pahlavi, the pretender to the throne of Iran.

(snip)

Note: Readers who like to keep an eye on such things should watch out for media appearances by any of the following Benador "experts": AM Rosenthal, Alexander M Haig Jr, Amir Taheri, Arnaud de Borchgrave, Azar Nafisi, Barry Rubin, Charles Jacobs, Charles Krauthammer, Fereydoun Hoveyda, Frank J Gaffney Jr, George Jonas, Hillel Fradkin, Ismail Cem, John Eibner, Kanan Makiya, Khalid Duran, Khidhir Hamza, Laurie Mylroie, Mansoor Ijaz, Martin Kramer, Max Boot, Meyrav Wurmser, Michael A Ledeen, Michael Rubin, Michel Gurfinkiel, Paul Marshall, R James Woolsey, Richard O Spertzel, Richard Perle, Richard Pipes, Ruth Wedgwood, Shaykh Kabbani, Stanley H Kaplan, Tashbih Sayyed, Tom Rose and Walid Phares.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1671.htm



I just looked at this Buzzardi fellow, and wish I had looked closer last year when I noticed the Lieberman link
http://www.bobguzzardi.com/orgs.php:

Chair: Interfaith Taskforce of America and Israel

Board Member: Zionist Organization of America

President’s Council: Republican Jewish Coalition

Supporter: SITE Institute

Senate Club: American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)

Board: REACH Alliance

Member: Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA)

Board, Chair of Development Committee: Middle East Forum

Supporter: Mid-East Education Team (MEET)

Member: Greater Philadelphia Association of Realtors (GPAR)

Supporter: National Christian Leadership Conference for Israel (NCLCI)

Board: Commonwealth Foundation

Member: NY and NJ Political Action Committee (NORPAC)

Member: Beth Hamedrosh Synagogue

Member: Club for Growth

Supporter: Patriots for the Defense of Democracy

PA State Chair: SocialSecurityChoice.org

Board: East of Broad Improvement Association

Member: American-Jewish Congress

Supporter:Non-Profit Technology Resources

Supporter:Israel Resource Agency

Supporter: Discovery Institute

Member: Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA)

Supporter: Politically Active Physician's Association (PAPA)

http://www.bobguzzardi.com/about.php
===

He is a proud member of the Club for Growth, as well as the Republican Jewish Coalition, and he's an enthusiastic supporter of the Democrats of Norristown. :shrug: Someone run that by me one more time because I'm just not getting how he can mix it all up loke that. Never mind. By "enthusiastic supporter of the Democrats", he's probably thinking of DLC/NDN/NDOL guys.

[Neverarepublican]

43. Rummy

you are full of shit

[cliss]

44. This is what they warned about....

There's a writer on From the Wilderness who warned that Washington will be getting ready to invade Iran.

He wrote that one of the tell-tale signs will be Washington starts the rhetoric about Iran developing a nuclear bomb, they're dangerous, we're in dire danger, etc.

The rhetoric will escalate on a steady basis. He was guessing that they would start the propaganda at the beinning of the year. This is the prelude to the draft. They may even create some kind of crisis to convince everyone it's necessary.

Next, they will start the draft. I'll try to see if I can find a link.

OK, now it begins. Watch Washington.

[sakabatou]

46. Next: Invasion!

you know, I would ask the Bush Admin this: Should we invade and kill every nation that has WMDs?

[Solly Mack]

47. Gonzales must be thrilled at the chance to torture more people

Bet it stokes Shrub's fire too.

[Rose Siding]

49. And he knows just where it is!

"We know where they are. They're in the area around {Tehran/city in target country of choice} and east, west, south and north somewhat" :eyes:

[Barkley]

50. If Rummy's right, we only have our owned failed policy in Iraq to blame

our disarmament policy in Iraq said: ‘open your country to weapon inspectors and get invaded.’ The invasion of Iraq seriously undermined the credibility of disarmament. Scott Ritter former chief U.N. weapons inspector notes that “the issue of Iraqi WMD and the entire concept of disarmament has become a public joke.” The message from Iraq and North Korea to Iran and other countries is the way to escape Saddam Hussein's fate is to ‘get a nuclear bomb quickly, before the United States finds out about it.’

[don954]

52. Before we forget, Iran Armament, document still in draft stages

but Im still searching public data banks to complete it:
(this isnt some little piss poor country that we can just invade without thought)

Iran Armament

<img src=“”>

Military branches:
Islamic Republic of Iran regular forces (includes Ground Forces, Navy, Air Force and Air Defense Command), Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) (includes Ground Forces, Air Force, Navy, Qods Force , and Basij ), Law Enforcement Forces

Military manpower - availability:
males age 15-49: 20,937,348 (2004 est.)

Military manpower - fit for military service:
males age 15-49: 12,434,810 (2004 est.)

Military manpower - reaching military age annually:
males: 912,569 (2004 est.)

Military expenditures - dollar figure:
$4.3 billion (2003 est.)

Airports:
303 (2003 est.)
Airports - with paved runways:
total: 125
over 3,047 m: 39
2,438 to 3,047 m: 25
1,524 to 2,437 m: 26
914 to 1,523 m: 31
under 914 m: 4 (2003 est.)
Airports - with unpaved runways:
total: 178
over 3,047 m: 1
1,524 to 2,437 m: 9
914 to 1,523 m: 129
under 914 m: 39 (2003 est.)
Heliports:
13 (2003 est.)

Merchant marine:
total: 134 ships (1,000 GRT or over) 4,715,242 GRT/8,240,069 DWT
by type: bulk 40, cargo 36, chemical tanker 3, container 7, liquefied gas 1, multi-functional large load carrier 5, petroleum tanker 33, roll on/roll off 8, short-sea/passenger 1
registered in other countries: 10 (2003 est.)

Ports and harbors:
Abadan (largely destroyed in fighting during 1980-88 war), Ahvaz, Bandar 'Abbas, Bandar-e Anzali, Bushehr, Bandar-e Emam Khomeyni, Bandar-e Lengeh, Bandar-e Mahshahr, Bandar-e Torkaman, Chabahar (Bandar Beheshti), Jazireh-ye Khark, Jazireh-ye Lavan, Jazireh-ye Sirri, Khorramshahr (limited operation since November 1992), Now Shahr

Telephone system:
general assessment: inadequate but currently being modernized and expanded with the goal of not only improving the efficiency and increasing the volume of the urban service but also bringing telephone service to several thousand villages, not presently connected
domestic: as a result of heavy investing in the telephone system since 1994, the number of long-distance channels in the microwave radio relay trunk has grown substantially; many villages have been brought into the net; the number of main lines in the urban systems has approximately doubled; and thousands of mobile cellular subscribers are being served; moreover, the technical level of the system has been raised by the installation of thousands of digital switches
international: country code - 98; HF radio and microwave radio relay to Turkey, Azerbaijan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Syria, Kuwait, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan; submarine fiber-optic cable to UAE with access to Fiber-Optic Link Around the Globe (FLAG); Trans-Asia-Europe (TAE) fiber-optic line runs from Azerbaijan through the northern portion of Iran to Turkmenistan with expansion to Georgia and Azerbaijan; satellite earth stations - 9 Intelsat and 4 Inmarsat



Aircraft:
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29M Fulcrum, quantity 80, info:
http://www.airtoaircombat.com/detail.asp?id=5
<img src=””>

Chengdu F-7MG, quantity unknown, info:
http://www.airtoaircombat.com/detail.asp?id=21
No image

Grumman F-14D Tomcat, quantity 55, info
http://www.airtoaircombat.com/detail.asp?id=14
<img src=””>

Aircraft Armament:
S-300 air defense missiles

Buk M1 air defense missiles

Tor M1 air defense missiles

Mosquito anti-ship missiles

Yakhont anti-ship missiles




Ground:

Anti personnel land mines (locally made)

Iskander-E tactical ground-to-ground missiles with a range of nearly 300 kilometers

550 BMP-3 armored infantry vehicles

T-72 tanks

Sea

Sovremenny-class destroyers

Possible ex-russian nucular powered submarines

Project 877 diesel submarines

[Tinoire]

54. Very informative post!

Welcome to DU! :toast:

Iran hasn't been weakened by 12 years of bombings and starved to death. They understood the writing on the floor long ago.

I really hope that not even these madmen would dare.



Btw, no need to write img src=” when posting a photo... Just the direct link to the jpg works here.

[don954]

55. thanks, Im used to writing in HTML :)

[pinto]

53. I sure as hell hope this ain't a "welcomed with flowers" scenario, again.

[don954]

58. I dont think even the most loyalist republican will buy that one again

not even Tom Delay... well mabie tom, but no one else.. :)

[Horse with no Name]

57. Unbelievable idiocy

I was in Phoenix over the holiday and as I was driving in they were talking about this very thing on the AAR there.
It was speaking of a "Plan for Iran" that Bushco has adopted.

>>>snip
Specific elements of a new U.S. policy, according to the paper, would include:
- A major policy address by Bush that would pledge to "reconnect with the Iranian people, to help the vast majority of Iranians who want democracy to achieve it ... to assure their security in return for not acquiring nuclear weapons and to help develop their economy";
>>>>snip
- Making clear that Washington will not accept Iran's possession of nuclear weapons and will back that up with force, presumably unilateral, if necessary;
>>>>snip
- Developing relations with the military and various other security services in Iran in order to undermine the regime's "pillars of support," and marshaling evidence for a legal case against Khamenei for indictment in an appropriate tribunal;
>>>>snip

http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=4200

Now where have we heard this language before?
It is sickeningly familiar, except with the major difference that Iran is closer to being a first world country than Iraq was being a third world. Iran is very close to becoming a superpower and there isn't any way in hell that Buscho is going to tell them what or how to do their business. Newsflash...they don't want our brand of democracy. Iran's government is representative of the country--it is not weak. Our country's military is stretched to the bone and there isn't any way that we can win this conflict if he starts it.
Herr Chimperor is going to create armageddon if he attempts to step in on this one.

[sweetheart]

59. Runsfeld is talkin'... he's lyin'

Lies lies lies... he wants to kill more people... its pathological.

[SammyWinstonJack]

60. And we're to believe him..........why?

:eyes:

[teryang]

61. Not only will Iran retaliate, they will have support from Russia

...and China. The American infrastructure in Iraq and elsewhere in the Persian Gulf is very exposed. Even if Iraq were not able to present a formidable conventional retaliation, the unconventional responses could be devastating. Bombing alone doesn't win wars. In fact, studies show that its impact is limited while serving to rally the enemy against you.

An Israeli or American air attack on Iran would rally all Iranians against us and destroy the opposition in Iran as a political force.

An American attack agaisnt Iraq might be followed by Chinese missile firings near Taiwan and/or Korean ballistic missile firings near Japan.

This sort of sable rattling is beyond the pale of rational policy. Tell me there isn't a Hitler analogy. They have taken over Iraq, now they think they can take over Iran. This is the nonsense of world wars.

I saw a symposium on Iran on CSPAN the other night. Mr. Pollack had it right- economic manipulation of Iraq by a consortium of powers will be productive. Military actions will be unproductive and present uncontrollable risks. Our ground forces are not prepared for a conflict with Iran. A new crop of non-profit talking heads were there promoting an attack on Iran.

Who would be strangled by a Persian Gulf confrontation? Them or the international oil markets? US forces would be forced to abandon central Iraq to defend the southern Iraqi gulf access from ground attack and to guard the inroads to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. There is no Iraqi Army capable of defending Iraq.

[cliss]

75. I agree with you. Thanks for your always-informative

posts, T. So the question is, does the Pentagon know that invading Iran would be a futile effort, with enormous ramifications if they are so outrageous? Surely, they must have intelligence sources, which are telling them, "no, no, no, don't try it." "It would be insanity right now, Mr. President".

And I believe you're right: this kind of a move would be seen as extreme, and it's going to draw an extreme response. The world will not sit still for such an action.

This would be the prudent thing to do: we're overwhelmed with Dante's Inferno in Iraq as it is.

But why are we assuming these guys are prudent? Recall Emperor Hirohito & Pearl Harbor. Rumour had it the man was absolutely out of his mind, but no one was stopping him. And this is what makes the blood run cold in my veins.

I HAVE MY DOUBTS about their sanity. I really do. I've read some transcripts about some of the people in the Pentagon, and the qualify as dysfunctional in the extreme, as John Bradshaw would say. One senior assistant said, "I know we can do this (invade Iran) the goal is so close and it's doable".

Remember the comics we used to read as kids? I used to read Spiderman, Iron Man, and Batman. The topic was always the same. There was some lunatic who wanted to rule the world. They would take over, and everyone would be their serfs. They would be merciless.

Guess what? We're there.

[SlowDownFast]

63. THIS STORY IS FROM 2003

<Thursday June 12, 2003
The Guardian >

why post this OLD story now in late breaking news?

even more surprising--seems like nobody in heres noticed yet...

[Tinoire]

68. Oh DAMN! Found it as LBN on another site! Didn't even notice! n/t

[neweurope]

82. Stuff happens, Tinoire, and they evidently DO plan to attack Iran.

Powell already said they would NOT use ground troops. (I noticed the date only because the article mentions Rumsfeld being in Garmisch - and I had not heard of this.)

:scared:


-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[daleo]

78. That tells you something, doesn't it

Everyone is so used to war-mongering being ramped up on demand, that exact times don't even matter.

[teryang]

64. Mr. Kay says this is a belief not a fact

He said this on CSPAN a couple of nights ago about this very topic.

[leftchick]

65. isn't that what US media is about?

printing and repeating belief and not fact?

[NYC]

70. Faith based reporting.

[olddad56]

66. so those WMDs are in IRAN, Damm, we were only one letter off.

[pinniped]

67. Every day some different asshole from the piece of $hit...

wh spews out something nuclear crap about Iran.

[CoffeeCat]

69. Yes, Donald....we KNOW!!!

Donald Rumsfeld is a third-rate asshole. That we know.

How Donald Rumsfeld came to be such a third-rate asshole, is an unknown.

Beneath Donald Rumsfeld's third-rate asshole personality lies a dark void full of Godknowswhat filth muck. Those are the unknown knowns.

Ya know?

[alexisfree]

72. Cry wolf over and over

[Mokito]

76. Ding...Ding...Ding...We have a winner!

Iraaaaaaaaaan.......Come on down!

[Erika]

79. Rumsfeld'd word is worthless.

"we'll do it energetically" Is that yet another attempt to throw Christ's Golden Rule out the window?

[BadGimp]

80. Be afrain people, be very afraid..

"..the next project of Pentagon hawks:

regime change in Tehran."

I remember telling my nephew on the morning of 9/11 that "it's all down hill from here". He is one of the brightest people I know but my remark did not sink in for him till a few days later after he saw the raw screams of nationalisim eminating from the sheeple.

Afghanistan I can undestand. However Iraq was as bad a move as we could have made. But Iran is literally out of the pan and straight into the fire. An illegal and unjustified military campaign againt Iran will forever redefine the term "fubar".

If this is what they will attempt next, then all bets are off as to how the sheeple ultimately react. But for sure they can succeed in seling this one. The nationalistic pump has already primed,

Things could get really ugly from here on.

WASS!

[darkism]

81. Oh for the love of god

Close the window, it's going to get REALLY drafty in here before this is all over.

...especially considering that Iran has an ACTUAL ARMY and AIR FORCE, unlike the last two countries we occupied.

Time to prepare my CO status...

[Moderator]

83. Locking

This story is dated Thursday June 12, 2003, and is not Late Breaking News.