Soldier's Parents Defend Him After Prisoner Abuse Conviction

[Kadie]

Soldier's Parents Defend Him After Prisoner Abuse Conviction
Graners Say Son 'Did His Job'

POSTED: 12:57 pm EST January 17, 2005
UPDATED: 1:24 pm EST January 17, 2005

The father of the Army specialist convicted of abusing Iraqi prisoners says what his son did at Abu Ghraib saved American lives.

Charles Graner Sr. told the CBS "Early Show" that the information his son was able to obtain from Iraqi prisoners was "well worth it." He said his son "did his job" and that he's "proud of him."

Still, Graner said of his son that "the Christian in him" and "the corrections officer in him" knew that what he was doing was wrong.

more...
http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/4089240/detail.html

[BlueEyedSon]

1. What information would that be?

Their penis size?
Jesus.

[saigon68]

3. The depth of their Rectums

After Chuck inserted the plastic flashlight.

or the other dude anally raped the 15 year old boy.

[LiberalVoice]

2. Fuck Graner...

Jr. and Sr.

It's false patriots like him and his dad that make this country so fucking disgusting. His father is "proud of him" while also knowing that what he did contradicts his religious beliefs? What a fucking idiot.

[librarycard]

23. no fucking thanks

but the mom did have it right--her son took the fall for Rummy.

[Name removed]

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[librarycard]

29. I think a preemptive strike against a non-threatening country

and prison abuse go hand in hand. There are still the Geneva Conventions, which are a part of military training, to think about.

Rumsfeld's job has to do with all of the above, yours and mine. Why is he still on the taxpayer dole?

As for Graner, his best defense in prison against the previously mentioned topic is himself. The sooner he's out of sight and mind, the better I'll feel. Bring on the dozens (hundreds?) of others. Let's get this show on the road.

[Name removed]

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[librarycard]

35. I don't see impeachment happening w/this cabal

but when discussing Rummy, there is no reason in a sane man's mind why he should still be in the cabinet.

As far as "gay bashing" goes, I have some observations.

My father and I used to visit an old woman at the Frontera Women's Prison. This woman was someone he'd arrested and whose testimony got her life in prison for the people she'd killed. I gues my dad felt sorry for her since she had no family. We visted on "family" days.

A large percentage of the women prisoners appeared to be gay, including the Manson "girls." From that experience, I came to conclusion that for many, sexual predilections change when the sexual choice for heterosexuals is narrowed down to a same sex choice. If I'm wrong, then perhaps someone can explain the high incidence of lesbian behavior in a high security women's prison. Does being lesbian (or gay) lead to criminality?

[Name removed]

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[Julius Civitatus]

4. Raping men was his son's job?

Who would have thought!

My only concern about the sentencing of Graner is that they may exempt the ultimate culprits for these crimes, all the way up the chain of command.

Yes, this guy was a sadistic pervert that got his jollies by torturing and raping men in his custody... but he did it with the tacit approval of his superiors, and in cases at the request of his superiors.

I'm sure the WH and the Pentagon would love to close the case with Graner, even though evidence points at these torture practices being standard procedure approved by the very top. Alberto Gonzalez knows a thing or two about this.

[Pam-Moby]

5. Who knows what to believe anymore?

The photos of Graner looked real bad. But the family members said Graner was pressured by higher ranking members to do such acts.

[daleo]

7. Both things can be true.

It is a travesty that nobody higher up has had to answer for these crimes, though.

[genieroze]

8. Well, you don't expect * to take responsibility for what he authorized

do you?

[Pam-Moby]

12. Well I guess not-he never does take any responsibility. n/t

[Name removed]

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[Julius Civitatus]

11. Not true!

You say: Given that no one died, no one was raped, no one was permanently crippled, 10 years is enough. the average murderer in the US serves only 7.6 years, and the average child molestor less than that!

Have you been reading the reports? People have been raped and tortured in Abu Grahib. People have died under interrogation there. Crippled for life? We may never know the extent.

Independently of the responsibility of higher-ups (which SHOULD be investigated all the way), Graner and his white trash pals deserved harsh sentences.

[Name removed]

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[Julius Civitatus]

21. Names?

What do you mean "calling names"? I said Pt. Lindie England is white trash, and I would say it again. If you look "white trash" in the dictionary, you'll probably find the thumbs up photos of Lindie England right there. Her behavior certainly made that clear.

[Name removed]

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[Julius Civitatus]

25. Get over it

You sure are making a huge deal out of calling those two rapists/sadistic torturers "white trash."

Poor, poor sadistic torturers! Someone is calling them "white trash" in a web board.

:nopity:

[Name removed]

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[Julius Civitatus]

32. But you are calling me names!!!

See, you came back and called me names instead.
You sure feel touchy about this issue.

[Name removed]

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[Julius Civitatus]

33. But you are calling me names

See, you came back and called me names instead.
You sure feel touchy about this issue.

[DrWeird]

41. Graner should have been lynched.

Just like Nazi and Japanese war criminals.

Yes, people were raped at Abu Ghraib. Yes, people were maimed at Abu Ghraib. Yes, people were murdered at Abu Ghraib.

And it's all in the photos.

[Name removed]

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[DrWeird]

43. You know what, stick a gun to somebody's head...

and force somebody against their will to perform oral sex on a man, I don't care what the fuck anybody else says, that's fucking rape.

As for murder, there's a picture of graner giving a thumb's up next to a corpse.

Fucking savages and their apologists.

[Name removed]

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[riverwalker]

10. Graner had a history

when working as a prison guard in Pennsylvania, he put razor blades in an inmates food. His ex-wife required protection orders after he beat her up and threw her down the steps.
This punk needed no "pressure" from anyone to be a sadistic sob.

[mike_c]

6. well now we know where Chip learned his sense of civic...

...responsibility. Right from wrong-- that sort of thing. The real irony is that this apologist would probably be among the first to denounce the "moral relativism of the left."

"...the corrections officer in him?" Now there's a real calling!

[UL_Approved]

13. Just junk for the media

This is a sad moment. These people should know that this is bunk. I guess we know where Charlie learned all his bad habits...

[Ganja Ninja]

15. The Christian in him told him he was wrong.

But the Republican in him said, "Those homo-erotic photos will turn Lindy on and make great souvenirs too."

[Name removed]

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[Ganja Ninja]

17. Not to mention that some of the people he messed with ...

have long memories.

[Name removed]

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[Joe Chi Minh]

19. So, you don't think

he was specially recruited, then, on account of his civilian profile as a psychopathic sadist? Just leave him in peace to agonise over his cruelty during his sentence?

When, after the war had ended, German townsfolk from the places near to the concentration camps were forced to take a guided tour of them, some laughed and giggled. Others were traumatised, some committing suicide. Which do you think our friend would be most close to in spirit?

C S Lewis commented in one of his books (perhaps, "Surprised by Joy") on people who could take the most hideous outrages perpetrated on others with serenity (I think it was in the context of the atrocities in the German concentration camps). I don't think he considered it a healthy Christian feature.

Certainly, the most vehement and pointed diatribes of both Jesus and John the Baptist, were inspired by the vicious oppression and numerous injustices imposed by the respectable scribes and Pharisees on the poor and disadvantaged.

[Name removed]

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[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

26. OWB, you are missing the salient point:

The torture, just like so many other depredations, both in Iraq and here, happened under the color of authority. Everytime you turn around these days, someone in government is going way past the limits of the law, common sense, good taste and ethics. Americans, as is appropriate, tend to have a problem with such behavior.

Now, you can use your sideways Tu Quoque arguments to, perhaps, deflect attention, but I assure you that they will not bear fruit. What happened is wrong and stands alone as such, especially when the implied authority to engage in such heinous acts came from the highest quarters of this administration.

Yeah, crime and child molestation are both bad things. Terrible. But they have little to do with these tortures and their provenance.

[Name removed]

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[Joe Chi Minh]

27. "They just found

those reservists who were weak, and obeyed verbal orders to go beyond the line".

Read Riverwalker's post #10. then read it again. And again.

"I find it amusing in a sad way that people don't seem as enraged over the routine murders and rapes we see daily in this country, or child abuse, (which I personally consider the most horrific of crimes) as they do over this Garner".

Where do you get that idea from? I think your judges are a somewhat more enlightened than ours in the UK in these matters, but over here, it is only the judges who seem incapable of outrage, and view all such cases as simply matters of policy, to be dealt with in terms of current government policy, available prison accommodation, the economics of incarceration, etc. Indeed, they have a childishly disingenuous habit of prefacing their most disgracefull inadequate sentences with such gems as: "So heinous was the offence that only the most draconian sentence I could pass would adequately convey the utter repugnance and outrage felt by all right-thinking people. I hereby sentence you therefore to 200 hours of community service.

Recently, there have been a few cases of men found (thanks to one of your American agencies) with a host of paedophile images on their computer, let off!!!! One I think suggested it was a "victimless crime!"

I read the other day that an American man was sentenced to five thirty year terms - since it was America, I suspect to be served consecutively. Only our judiciary could show such enormous contempt for the public as to order those terms to be served - no don't laugh - concurrently!!!! The press too are complicit in this nonsense, with their headines, such as, "Gang of twelve *caged* for 24 years"; meaning in aggregate, not invdividually!!!!

I'd be very surprised if there were not plenty of second-rate thugs who would have been utterly disgusted at the sexual depravity and perverted enjoyment he and his like evinced. As I posted elsewhere, I think it was he who said what a great buzz he got out of making grown men urinate (evidently, with fear and stress). Just your regular, weak kind of guy, eh? NOT.

[Name removed]

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[devinsgram]

39. I would like to know just how did it save

American lives. If anything, it caused more people to die. Wasn't it after the photos came out out that the insurgency got worse. There was nothing but right wing talking points in that statement. No logic whatsoever.

I certainly have unconditional love for my kids, but I would hang my head in shame for actions like that, orders or no orders.

[Jamastiene]

40. The "he was a good boy" defense

never sets well with me. There is no reason good enough for what happened, only lame excuses.

[Guns Aximbo]

44. and that idiot fascist...

... had that same stupid grin on his puss walking out of the courthouse that he had in the photos.

[alexisfree]

46. yeah..just like scott peterson he was a good kid...haha

[Name removed]

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