Rice: Venezuela's Chavez 'Very Deeply Troubling'

[Minstrel Boy]

Actually, she said "really very deeply troubling"

Rice: Venezuela's Chavez 'Very Deeply Troubling'

January 18, 2005

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Secretary of State-designate Condoleezza Rice criticized Venezuelan populist leader Hugo Chavez on Tuesday for autocratic moves to stifle opposition in the major U.S. oil supplier.

Rice reinforced a barrage of U.S. criticism of Chavez over the last few days as the Bush administration worries the firebrand nationalist has rejected its overtures to improve ties after the nations clashed over democracy last year.

"We are very concerned about a democratically elected leader who governs in an illiberal way, and some of the steps he's taken against the media, against the opposition, I think are really very deeply troubling," Rice said at her Senate confirmation hearing.

...

Chavez accuses Washington of supporting opponents seeking to oust him from office and says Washington has no credibility complaining of rights abuses in Venezuela because its soldiers tortured Iraqi prisoners after an "illegal" invasion.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2005/01/18/rice_venezuelas_chavez_very_deeply_troubling/

[Arkana]

1. To borrow from "Mr. Deeds:"

"No. Your beard is troubling. Your pipe is troubling. Your yellow teeth are ESPECIALLY troubling. If I lose control of this company it'll be catastrophic."

[Mojambo]

2. Funny, that's what the rest of the world is saying about Bush n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Oh, goody. Does this mean we'll be invading Venezuela, too?

After all, they do have oil.

[anarchy1999]

18. That's the really bad part. Yes, they do have oil and yes, they are a

major supplier. That's why Condi is so deeply troubled. Chavez is fighting back and he's been winning so far.

[norml]

76. Venezuela has the sixth largest reserve of oil, at 64 billion barrels.

That's more than Russia, but less than the United Arab Emirates.

[bunny planet]

35. yup, and Cuba too. They just discovered some.

[gorbal]

39. That's how Rome fell

They spread their resouces to thin and were taken over by surprise. If we continue like this attacking country after country pretty soon it will happen to us.

[Vidar]

4. Let's see, a fiery patriot or a lying syncop0hant whore? How to choose?

[anarchy1999]

20. I'd like to go with the fiery patriot, please. But then I always lose at

poker, but maybe not, this time with world opinion being what it is. Didn't Chavez just cut a deal with China over oil?

[Vidar]

93. Yes he did. I regard our government as a rogue state &

entirely evil. Any individuals or countries that oppose it are to be commended. We are in the position of resistance fighters.,

[arcane1]

5. steps he's taken against CORPORATE media

:grr:

[Tempest]

6. And yet Putin gets a free pass

For actually shutting down the press and cancelling elections.

Is there no depths to this administration's hypocrisy?

[anarchy1999]

17. Mind is boggled. Forever more.

I don't want to be here anymore.

[HuckleB]

23. But, but Putin's "fightin' them terrists!"

After all, we learned everything we know about destroying Fallujah from Putin's zachistka operations in Chechnya.

[Elidor]

7. My head is going to explode now

I can't endure four more years of this incompetent twit masquerading as a rational person.

[okieinpain]

11. get over it, (quote from dem sen. biden) n/t

[AP]

8. Chavez is a real "Ill Liberal"

Ill

1. To be obnoxious, or to act weird, as in eating dogfood. "You be illin'" -- RUN-DMC (You be illin', 1986).
2. Negative.
3. Positive. "Most illinest b-boys" -- Beastie Boys (Rhymin' and stealing).
4. Drunk. "Bored as hell and I wanna get Ill" -- EasyE (Boys in Tha Hood)

http://www.rapdict.org/Ill

[HuckleB]

9. Yeah, Chavez is too focused on increasing rights and fighting poverty.

Oh, yeah. I guess we already knew that. How could I forget? Bad, bad Chavez. Bad, bad man!

Do as we say! Do it! NOW!

[tedzbear]

80. Plus he was democratically elected more than once...

...unlike our man Allawi in Iraq.

[jrthin]

10. They are concerned

about a democratically elected president? Why, are the jealous? I'll tell you what's pissing off these * thugs: although far from perfect, still Chavez is attempting to redistribute the wealth, giving many of the truly poor a shot.

[HuckleB]

12. And I suppose she hasn't even heard of Oscar Berger.

Want someone to be worried about, Condi? Here you go. "President" of Guatemala. Yeah, you might have heard of it at some point. Oh, I'm sure you will eventually. You did eventually learn about Al Qaeda, after all.

Ignorance is bliss for this administration.

[anarchy1999]

13. What really troubles me is that this "ho" said this!

Makes me wonder what is in store for Latin America. Can't have any tin-pots running around down there, now can we?

Saddam switched to Euros for oil, has Chavez yet? This administration has been gunning for him for 4 years. Hang on Chavez, makes me almost want to go and offer aid. See www.bigleftoutside.com and al giordano at google for all you ever wanted or wished not to know about the real deal in South America.

[Liberal Veteran]

14. This is the most arrogant and troubling statement to me...

"Rice reinforced a barrage of U.S. criticism of Chavez over the last few days as the Bush administration worries the firebrand nationalist has rejected its overtures to improve ties after the nations clashed over democracy last year."

So let me see if I understand this: The Bush Regime tried to have Chavez overthrown and failed and now we are shocked that he's not really welcoming their overtures?

WTF?

[AuntiBush]

16. You got that right!

Chavez is probally murmuring those same words... "W-T-F!?!"

I just heard Condi say on C-Span that "All hands are on deck." The latter word could be mis-spelled, as far as I'm concerned.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

90. Actually, that would be, "¿Qué carajos?" (nt)

[AP]

24. Their overtures lately have been begging VZ not to prosecute the...

...opposition organizations which broke VZ law by accepting money from the N.E.D. in the lead up to the recall vote. (VZ'ans can't accept money from foreigners to pay for domestic political activities -- the US has the same rule.)

[AuntiBush]

15. Rice is Deeply Troubling...

for me! I She lies through her "teeth," literally!

Like another poster, I am clueless as to how I'll make it through 4 years of Bushite!

Yet, our Democrat representatives and senators are on the front line.

I feel sorry for them, actually.

[anarchy1999]

22. "Our" dem reps and senators walked away on November the 1st.

n/t

[ignatius 2]

19. Odd,if you try several times to kill someone and fail they often hold

a grudge. Doesn't Chavez know that King George has decreed him to forget about the assassination attempts and come and kiss his ass now?

This administration is so idiotic, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[Ironpost]

21. the reason he is so troubling to the * administration

is he is giving back to the people of Venezuela their own land. something like 90 percent of Venezuela is owned by people from other country's. Chavez thinks this belongs to the Venezuelans. Not to mention the euros.

[TheFarseer]

70. Remember what happened to Salvador Allende

[LynnTheDem]

25. ROTFL!!!! Rice, you're a dumb stupid bitch!

So PLEASE, stop disgracing & embarassing us further...just STFU! Thanks!

[anarchy1999]

27. Seconded! Just STFU, you dumb, stupid B! But wait, she's supposed

to be incredibly intelligent, right?

[LynnTheDem]

33. Right; and that Aug 6, 2001 PDB was just historical in nature.

They all THINK they're intelligent. They're also all wrong.

[David__77]

26. Why is "illegal" in quotes?

It is clearly illegal in the sense of international law, which was the concern of Chavez when he said it.

I can only hope that the Bolivarian revolution takes firm hold in the south of America. Nations are standing up for their dignity, and people are standing up for their rights.

[bobthedrummer]

28. Hugo Chavez came back from a CIA backed coup.

O8)

[shadowknows69]

29. do these people even listen to themselves talk?

they need to look in a mirror as well

[IndianaGreen]

30. Rice is defending the CIA operatives that engineered the last coup?

She is nothing but Bush's Lady MacBeth.

Rice should be at The Hague facing war crimes charges instead of being annointed as the useless Colin Powell's replacement.

[CHIMO]

31. Can't Be Real

A Dem Senator from Florida is concerned that Venezuela is drifting to the left and the US is importing about 13% of its oil from there!

Would suggest that Condi not bother going or talking to Europe. They are under the belief that there are no WMD there.
By the way Condi did anyone tell you what Caricom thinks of the situation in Haiti.

[Strelnikov_]

32. Sounds Like They Are Bitching About Him Not Being A Liberal

"We are very concerned about a democratically elected leader who governs in an illiberal way, and some of the steps he's taken against the media, against the opposition, I think are really very deeply troubling,"

I thought according to the Reich-Wing liberal was evil.

Sounds like a better description of Boosh and the Neo-Cons.

[54anickel]

34. WTF does she mean by illiberal? Just got the Repugs to see the term

liberal as a bad thing. So now we have an "ilbadthing", which must mean a good thing, right? :crazy:

BeezleBush governs in an illiberal way - abusing the corporate media for propaganda, most of the steps he's taken against the opposition. The rest of the US and world find THAT deeply troubling.

[Cha]

36. And to think..that little lyin'

sack of shit is going to be our next secretary of state.

Since she did so well as national security advisor(9/11)..they're bumping her upstairs.

[ChildEyedOneMan]

37. No offense to chavez personally but I hate dictators

His dictatorial ego and desire to strong-arm his way into the hearts of the people make me ill and that's all I have to say about this yet another dictator to be and then not to be.

An honest and desirable leadership requires no dictatorship.

[Minstrel Boy]

38. And no offence to you personally but

no leader in the world today has a more legitimate mandate.

[ChildEyedOneMan]

47. Not even the god of all dictators Castro?

I hope Fidel can get over playing second fiddle dictator.

[HuckleB]

54. Welcome to DU.

One question: What national leader/president/prime minister/what have you, anywhere in the world, is not a dictator, if you are going to say that Chavez is a dictator?

[ChildEyedOneMan]

56. Good question

I guess it's a matter of degree. Not since the last US President to avoid rubbing against the constitution has the world seen a 100% pure non-dictator. Sad isn't it?

[HuckleB]

89. Then...

I suppose your first post regarding every current world leader will be: "No offense to XXXX personally, but I hate dictators."?

Just as long as you remain consistent, I suppose.

[ChildEyedOneMan]

48. Hitler had a mandate too

All dictators suck and some suck more than others.

[AP]

61. Chavez is to Hitler what FDR is to Bush.

[leesa]

69. Very well put! Thanks!

[Bemis]

40. Actually he was elected president

This was years after a failed coup attempt on his part.

And then in 2002 there was that failed coup where he was
brought back to power by the people. Another fine example
of Condi's grasp on international events, recognizing the
coup's new government before thens even settled down.

But of course the US had no knowledge or hand in these
events............?

[AP]

43. His attempted coup was against fascists. (Yeah!) And when it failed, he...

...spent time in jail, formed a political party, and that party has won something like 11 elections in a row, and it achieved what the coup didn't: it got rid of the fascists.

[Solon]

41. Dammit, don't you just hate those popularly elected...

dictators, with international monitors who gave Venezuela higher marks than the U.S. of A.!

[bobbyboucher]

49. We have a winner!!!! The most uninformed, obvious

ditt-monkey post of the ..............hour?

I think you need to back away from the Fox News pal, it's rotting your brain.

[ChildEyedOneMan]

51. I don't watch Fox News pal

But I do know a dictator when I see one in action. If you like him then good for you but I despise cowardly dictators and if you don't like my opinion then use facts to argue it and not this FoxNews strawman bullshit you brought up pal.

Having a brain to rot is a good start.

[AP]

60. You sound like you might write it.

Your arguments are straight out of the neoliberal propaganda manual.

[TankLV]

77. If your posts are any example of your "knowledge" - you don't know your

ass from a hole in the ground.

By ANY measure, Hugo Chavez is as far removed from the definition of "dictator" - with nearly 70% of the vote last 3 times around - than anybody on this planet.

But, on the other hand, your boy george is about as close as they come without actually self proclaiming it.

After all, what DO you call someone WHO LOST THE POPULAR VOTE and is still installed as leader? Hint: It sure ain't democracy, honey!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

94. Oh, now he's not only a dictator but cowardly too?

Please elaborate.

[tkmorris]

57. He is NOT a dictator

He was elected. Period. End of story. The most recent vote in Venezuela to confirm his presidency was one of the most closely watched in recent memory. He won it handily.

[ChildEyedOneMan]

58. Castro, Hitler, Stalin etc were elected

They all turned into filthy dictators and needed stopped long before they were. Hopefully this latest dictator will change or retire early.

[AP]

59. Every elected leader was elected. You can name three whom you think became

dictators.

What's the connection to Chavez? What about Chavez makes him a risk of becoming totalitarian?

He does represent the interests of the people. He is an anti-fascist. He keeps winning elections fairly.

[Robbien]

63. Which latest dictator are you talking about? Bush?

He will never give up all his bushbots and everyone kissing his but.

[tkmorris]

64. Perhaps you could explain

exactly what it is about Chavez you dislike so intensely? Calling him a "dictator" isn't really much of an argument. Come, let us discuss the man's merits or lack thereof like rational human beings.

Tempting as it may be, I'll leave aside your comparisons to Hitler and Stalin in order to focus more properly on the topic at hand.

[Robbien]

66. Yes, it couldn't be

that Chavez has lowered the unemployment rate
that Chavez has increased funding for higher education
that Chavez has a working plan put into place for public education for all children
that Chavez has a working plan to stop relying on foreign foodstuffs by increasing his own country's output
that Chavez is hiring many medical personnel to man public hospitals to increase the medical care of the people
that Chavez has negotiated a better deal with the oil companies so that a larger share of the profits go to Venezuela
and so on and so on

I also would like to hear the exact reasons why someone would call Chavez a dictator other than the reason that Bush/Rice calls him a dictator.

[tkmorris]

75. It would seem that name-calling is easy

but that an honest evaluation of the man's character is too much to ask for. I swear sometimes I think Chavez' naysayers don't even know anything about the man, they just slam him and leave.

[Judi Lynn]

87. Read this letter to the editor which appeared in the Sun-Sentinel today!

The other side of Chávez story

Jonathan Cymberknopf
Coral Springs
Posted January 19 2005



I hope this synopsis is an eye opener for those who believe the Cuban-American propaganda machine that calls Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez an evil communist dictator.

Chávez is the right medicine for a country where 80 percent of its population lives in poverty. In his short time, Chávez has implemented universal health care for its citizens. Seniors who never before received Social Security checks now receive them and on time.

Chávez has also built affordable housing for the poor and helped create dozens of credit unions to help Venezuelans get the financing they need. Lastly, Mr. Chávez is securing a strong future by signing significant international trade deals with Russia, Brazil and China.

So to all my Cuban-American friends, I say, call him what you wish. As long as he keeps bringing much needed social reform to Venezuela, we Venezuelans don't care what you call him.
(snip/)

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/letters/sfl-brmail814jan19,0,210753.story?coll=sfla-news-letters

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

There's a Venezuelan in South Florida who agrees with you completely!
(Not to mention the majority of the people in Venezuela.)

[jpgray]

71. Hitler elected? This proves you have little knowledge of history

Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg after the latter's 1932 victory and his own defeat--he was not elected.

[kodi]

78. what ignorance.

"Castro, Hitler, Stalin etc were elected"

they were elected by popular vote like chavez was? as their nation's leaders? what the hell type of history book are you reading?

how can anyone with even the slightest inkling of knowledge say such nonsense?

[tedzbear]

81. They were the only candidate on the ballot, smarty pants.

Chavez ran against the chimp supported opposition and won by a large majority (unlike the chimp's 51% mandate).

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

91. It's a hit'n'run.

Hit Alert, post a quick debunking for the rest of people and go on your merry way.

[leesa]

68. He was democratically elected, fool. He is not a Dictator. Turn off

your teevee.

If you would turn off your teevee, you would realize Bush is the Dictator, not Chavez.

[RadiDem]

42. I'd trade Chimpy for Chavez !

in a heartbeat

[peacetalksforall]

44. This life is a horror under the cabal...all the above posts are telling

it like it is and then we have Rice and Powell and all the others who plotted and/or collaborated in the attempt on his democratically won presidency.

My prediction - Iran - Syria - Cuba - Venezuela - Jordan - Egypt - in that order.

We already have Haiti & Afghanistan, but no one has Iraq except all the souls of the dead.

[CHIMO]

45. Haiti & Afghanistan

Appear to be out of control in my book.

[Strelnikov_]

46. And The Hydrocarbon/Freedom Quotient Indicates Negative Prospects

for bringing 'American Freedom and Democracy'^TM to Syria, Cuba, Jordan and Egypt.


What's Venezuala got? Oil.
Who want's it? Neo-Con Petroleum Company.
When do they want it? Some time in the next 4 years.

[CHIMO]

50. Appears To Be So

But the blow back from Afghanistan with drugs and who knows what from Haiti is something that creeps up from behind and then says "I gotcha".

[tlcandie]

52. I guess if you can't win or beat em chaos works while you plunder

their oil?! :shrug:

[CHIMO]

53. Agree

It works for awhile. But everything has a consequence. If I were Kissinger sitting in Russia or China then I would probably be hopping that the US would take action against these countries.

[johnfunk]

55. It really troubles her when her husband.. er, client the Chimperor...

... doesn't have a puppet in place to spread "democracy" (read: corporatization) and "freedom" (read: no regulations).

[DemBones DemBones]

62. Condi's assertion that Chavez "governs in an illiberal way" and

Biden's order to Europe to "get over it" were the stupidest comments I heard all day.

I couldn't decide who was the most disgusting. Feinstein also gets points on the disgust-o-meter for introducing Condi as "my friend."

[TheFarseer]

73. It's weird that Biden said that.

Usually he brings the wood in these hearings and hits them hard with some good questions. I haven't seen all the quotes from this thing yet but I know if he hasn't hit em hard yet, he will.

[tedzbear]

82. Biden and Feinstein are imperialist apologists who voted...

...to give the chimp authorization for what they knew was an illegal war. They both give a knee jerk response in favor of any Sharon mandated foreign policy move.

[poe]

65. December 2004 Chavez met with his Chinese counterpart....

Hu Jintao to discuss a new bilateral agreement regarding access to Venezuela's energy market. Caracas will help Beijing with additions to China's strategic oil reserves in exchange for Chinese investment in Venezuela's agricultural sector and the development of fifteen currently shut down oilfields. Troubling indeed. The free market fundamentalists get angry when the world stops playing by their rules.

[leesa]

67. I have a feeling that along with Chavez' exclusive oil contract with China

they also purchased a little protection. Mess with Venezuela, you are probably messing with China.

The Oil Bitch continues her comedy of errors.

[tedzbear]

83. Good point.

"illiberal" is the stupidest word yet I've heard from these neocons.

[Gloria]

72. "Illiberal ways"?? Like Bushco, Condi? WTF??

I feel like my head is going to explode....Oh, man.

[GetTheRightVote]

74. For all the evil she is bringing into this country I wish Rice would go

back to her grandparents home and fields but then she probably does not know where that is anymore.

:kick:

[Amigust]

79. Chavez didn't roll over to US pressure. Then, what do you know,

a failed coup against him that the Bush government, at the very least, knew about a year before. This is the place where the jackals usually show up to finish the job, as they did in Equador and Panama after both of those presidents, having refused to play yassah massah with Washington, were initiated instead into the Wellstone Club.

[NYC]

85. Did I hear that Bush, Sr. was in Ecuador today?

I'll have to check on that.

[Barkley]

84. Pakistan, Kuwait, Haiti, Iraq, Egypt leaders govern in illberal ways too.

And they're our allies/ friends.

So why is VZ any more "troubling" than these countries?

[PaulaFarrell]

86. So she thinks democratically-elected leaders should govern in a liberal

way? Can't she tell the boss that?

[malaise]

88. The right wing

Columbians have alredy been called up for this plan. Forget Chavez's popularity among his people who elected him - democracy now means 'Bush in control'.

[Carl Brennan]

92. Actions speak louder than words.

Don't label: Judge Chavez by what he does for his people. This is how all leaders should be judged and not by the labels somebody sticks on them.


Actions speak louder than words.

See post #87