Titan a 'Flammable' Moon Covered in Liquid Gas

[norml]

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=Science&cat=Astronomy_and_Space AP Photo
Titan a 'Flammable' Moon Covered in Liquid Gas
(Reuters) - Saturn's moon Titan is covered by "dirty" ice ridges and seas of liquid natural gas, a team of scientists said on Friday after a week of research into data from the space probe Huygens. "We've got a flammable world," said Toby Owen, an atmospheric scientist, at a news conference from European Space Agency offices in Paris monitored on NASA TV. After a seven-year piggyback trip from Earth on board the Saturn probe Cassini, the European-designed Huygens separated in December and fell toward Titan, entering the moon's atmosphere last Friday. More ...

[BlueJazz]

1. Damnit!!

Geez....Barzoleg..How many times have I told you to quit smoking?
Don't light that match!...AAAGGGGGHHHH!!

[Stuckinthebush]

2. So, Titan is a No Smoking zone

Poof!

I wonder how long it will be before someone tries to figure a way to harvest the natural gas on Titan.

[NEOBuckeye]

3. You wanna bet Cheney and Halliburton aren't trying to figure out a way...

To pipe that stuff back here? :eyes:

[da_chimperor]

6. Drat, you beat me.

:hi:

[da_chimperor]

4. So does this mean Halliburton is going to get ANOTHER no-bid contract?

:shrug:

[Chico Man]

5. Hmm sounds like a future battleground to me

Anywhere there is resources... there is war.

We just need to convince the american people theres some WMD at the bottom of those lNG seas...

[papau]

21. I think you are correct - it mirrors early earth - and in 4 billion yrs

when the Sun expands their may be life on Titan - at least for a while - that will need Bush's help to get to democracy.

:toast:

I like the rivers and springs and rain and volcano's that throw out water - in the form of snow balls that are -200 centigrade!

:-)

[FormerDittoHead]

7. Interesting - so OXYGEN would be like NITRO!!

[norml]

9. The oxygen is there, locked up in water ice.

There might even be liquid water below the surface, considering the geothermal activity within Titan. Here's a link to a news story that gives some more detailed information on this. http://www.felixonline.co.uk/2002-04/article.php?aid=2135

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

8. Talk about retardo-headlines!

"Titan a 'Flammable' Moon Covered in Liquid Gas"
(snip)
But as opposed to the Earth, the atmosphere of Titan lacks oxygen, which is essential to fire.
"There's no source of oxygen available, which is a good thing or Titan would have exploded a long time ago," Owen said.

... how about this then?

"Earth a 'Nuclear Flammable' Planet Covered in Liquid Gas"

But as opposed to the reality, the ocean of Earth, composed of hydrogen and oxygen, lacks a the gravity of the sun, which is essential to the nuclear fire.
"There's no source of huge gravity available, which is a good thing or Earth would have exploded a long time ago," an idiot said.

[Minstrel Boy]

14. very funny, thanks! n/t

[IA_Seth]

29. You got me busted!

I am not suppose to be on the net at work an this made me laugh out loud!

[Sir Jeffrey]

10. We should liberate the 'Titanis' and spread freedom to them n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Proof the Titans are evil doers

Face of Klansman found on Titan.

[progressiveBadger]

11. So....

Say that lander crashed hard into the planet. Could it have ignited the whole damn thing? And who would take responsibility for the destruction of a moon?

[Boosterman]

15. Nasa blows up moon

Nasa Spoksman: Oopsie



Actually no it wouldnt explode. But the thought is kinda amusing. In a sick sorta way I suppose

[n2doc]

12. Incredibly stupid scientific comment

First of all, the hydrocarbons on Titan would not have been formed in the first place if O2 had been present. Second, even if, somehow, O2 were to be formed (and O in water won't cut it, thermodynamically) one would need to provide a "spark" so to speak, for any reaction to begin. This bozo should know this , if he studies atmospheric chemistry....

Not that it will occur to * and his minions, but it will probably cost way more in fuel/energy to get out there then back than we would get back in transported hydrocarbons.

[Boosterman]

16. Well if we had some sort of fusion power we could go and retrieve it

Of course then we wouldnt need it.

[TahitiNut]

18. Simply attach an engine and use the planet for fuel.

Then just put it in orbit around the Earth and attach a really, really looong hose.


:silly: :dunce: :silly: :dunce: :silly: :dunce: :silly: :dunce:

[Chico Man]

19. Well, I'd then offer this piece of advice to bush and his cronies..

How about you just get there, and never come back? You can ride the LNG seas of Titan on your new speedboat, retro-fitted to pull fuel directly from the sea it's riding, wearing an eye patch and declaring freedom and war (at the same time) over the whole universe. And those on earth can go on living in a peaceful existance.

[qazplm]

20. very true HOWEVER...

we could certainly use it as a potential refueling source for long distance missions.

[DrWeird]

22. I'm sure he's well aware of that.

he's probably just dumbing things down for the public. Just to spark their curiousity.

[On the Road]

25. There May be Sparks, All Right

provided there is lighting. And there is oxygen, too -- just not in the same form as earth.

[DrWeird]

28. Oxygen as in molecular oxygen. 02.

Wrong oxidation state, big difference.

[Ganja Ninja]

13. Sounds like one big Weapon of Mass Destruction.

Bet it doesn't smell too good either.

[Skink]

17. We could send a message to Saturn....

Stop enslaving your people or we'll blow up your little moon.:nuke:

[Rob H.]

24. "one big Weapon of Mass Destruction"

This proves it--Saturn hates our freedom. :cry:

:P

[dave29]

23. Folks

I hate to say it, but this could really be one of those things that helps "re-ignate" the space exploration industry. If we could spend some money on figuring out how to get mass quantities of this natural gas from Titan to the Earth - we would never have to worry about drilling for oil again. It could probably provide energy for our planet for hundreds of thousands of years.

I've always believed that the thing that will propel humans into space would be the "mining industry" - and as long as there is no life on Titan or anywhere we are disturbing the "natural environment" - I'm all for it.

The Earth is our oasis, and we should be open to the rest of the Universe in helping to protect and provide resources for us as we move forward as a species.

And I'm not saying we need to end tyranny in the Universe ;)

Two Cents.

[daleo]

26. Wouldn't a "flammable moon" need some oxygen?

I suppose if you could somehow get oxygen out of the environment there at a lower energy cost than you get out of burning methane, you would have a ready energy supply. My chemistry is kind of rusty on the point though.

[norml]

27. See post #9, there is water ice, and there is geothermal activity on Titan

Just do a Google Search on the words Titan and geothermal.

[daleo]

32. Yes, the ice could supply oxygen.

I don't know if the geothermal energy is related to radioactive decay in the interior, or tidal forces from being close to Saturn. I suppose either way it may be possible to derive energy from the geothermal source to get oxygen through water hydrolysis, and thus burn methane.

Someone could do a better job of this than me, but (I think) in principle it takes 483 KJ to split two moles of water, which would yield 1 mole of oxygen. This then could be used to burn half a mole of methane, but that only yields about 845 KJ. So, there is no net energy?

On edit - But if you could extract the geothermal energy, the methane would be a good "energy currency".

[norml]

34. Powering fuel cells would be a much better use of energy resources

on Titan, than any burning of them.

[daleo]

35. Lack of oxygen is still a barrier, I think.

Perhaps there are some points about efficiencies of the various processes, but there is no getting around the need for oxygen, which is not freely available in the atmosphere of Titan. In a sense, the problem is precisely the opposite of earth - here oxygen is "free", but methane is hard to find, there methane is "free" but oxygen is hard to find.

"If you want to be technical about it, a fuel cell is an electrochemical energy conversion device. A fuel cell converts the chemicals hydrogen and oxygen into water, and in the process it produces electricity."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/fuel-cell1.htm

Chemistry
of a Fuel Cell

Anode side:
2H2 => 4H+ + 4e-
Cathode side:
O2 + 4H+ + 4e- => 2H2O

Net reaction:
2H2 + O2 => 2H2O

[KamaAina]

31. So when do we invade?

Saturn's moon Titan is covered by "dirty" ice ridges and seas of liquid natural gas

The only difference would be we'd have to kill green people instead of brown ones. </sarcasm>

[ithacan]

33. cool story; but AP's got to give it that republican spin

note at the end they say it was launched from Cape Canaveral, Florida. NOT from the Kennedy Space Center. Can't give any positive air time to a democrat...

[daleo]

36. Just for interest's sake, the boiling point of methane is -161 Celsius.

The freezing point of methane is about -181 Celsius. The surface temperate where the lander went down was about -170 Celsius. Thus, this part of Titan seems to be nicely in the middle of the range, which would allow liquid methane to exist. Minor temperature changes would result in changes of state, and thus methane plays the role that water does on earth, moving from gas to liquid to solid.

I looked up these temperature values in an encyclopedia, as none of the articles I have read thus far mentions them. But, I think it knowing these temperates makes the methane cycle on Titan much more intuitively obvious. It is natural to wonder if methane might not be able to play some sort of similar role in possible life on Titan as water does with life on earth.

It would be a case of "It's life Jim, but not as we know it."

[bloodyjack]

37. There's only one possible way to resolve this

We have to BLOW THE THING UP