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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 06:02 PM
Original message
Author airs conspiracy theory on Im’s death
By MIKE WELLS of the Tribune’s staff
Published Sunday, January 23, 2005


The death of retired research Professor Jeong Im has all the makings of a spy novel, and some say that idea isn’t far off base.
Someone stabbed the 72-year-old scientist multiple times in the Maryland Avenue parking garage at the University of Missouri-Columbia, put him in the trunk of his Honda and set the car on fire. Adding to the mystery, police say a hooded, masked man was seen carrying a gas can away from the scene.

University police on Friday announced a $10,000 reward for information leading to an arrest in the Jan. 7 killing. Police have received more than 185 leads, including some that appear far-fetched.
A few days after firefighters found Im’s body, a national radio talk-show guest theorized the killing was part of a plot to kill off key microbiologists in the world before unleashing "the ultimate epidemic."

...

While acknowledging he doesn’t know whether Im’s death was part of a plot, Quayle said the circumstances concerned him. "I’m no conspiracy nut," he said. "What you’re seeing is some of the most famous men in the world, at least in their fields, are dying mysteriously." The deaths include stabbings, drownings, plane crashes and hit-and-run crashes. Some were ruled suicides. "There’s only been several who’ve died of ‘natural’ causes," Quayle said.

...

Quayle said he has followed bio-weapons issues for 30 years but said he started chronicling the deaths of microbiologists on www.stevequayle.com after a missile in October 2001 downed a passenger jet carrying five Israeli scientists over the Black Sea. Over the next several months, 11 microbiologists around the world died in various circumstances.

After last week’s "Coast to Coast" show, the Tribune received numerous e-mails and phone calls from people around the country who accept Quayle’s idea. "The pattern that’s emerging would be disturbing to any statistician," said Bill Stockglausner of Columbia. "The list is factual, and it appears strange that this is happening to these people who were in a certain profession."

more
http://www.columbiatribune.com/2005/Jan/20050123News004.asp


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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. listened to that program
i know someone who works for someone in this field.i was afraid that this happened where this person worked but it wasn`t. after reading several "legitimate" articles on the russian micro/bio warfare programs i have become a believer that something just may happen and it won`t be pretty....
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. This would be a more convincing theory if...
Edited on Sun Jan-23-05 06:16 PM by Sufi Marmot
...Im and 4/5ths of the other deceased microbiologists actually worked with infectious diseases or did plausible bioterrorism-related research. They didn't.

-SM



Edited for punctuation
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. who/which falls outside of parameters? example?
i've followed this story for a long time and have been intrigued. who, in your opinion doesn't fit the bill?
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. It's easier to list the few who do...
Edited on Sun Jan-23-05 07:01 PM by Sufi Marmot
Note - I personally don't feel that there's any relationship between any of the deaths. That isn't to say that one or more of the deaths weren't from foul play, Im's certainly appears to be, and one or two others were clearly murdered (for instance, the guy in Virginia, whose name escapes me at the moment...). But in terms of what is publically known about what all these scientists worked on, there's no commonality whatsoever in their research, and they are from all over the world and all levels of achievement (from research technicians to full professors...)

Pasechnik's death is most intersting because he was a Soviet defector who worked at Porton Down. David Kelly is also suspicious to me.

Of the others, Stephen Mostow was a physician at the University of Colorado who occasionally spoke publically about infectious diseases and did a bit of research.

Who knows what really happened to Wiley, but he was an acclaimed X-ray crystallographer who mostly worked on the flu virus, and not, at least by my definition, a "bioterrorism expert" as he is often described.

Most of the others, while they may have been good scientists, were certainly not "world class", and didn't work on bioterrorism or infectious disease.

All these conspiracy theories betray a stunning ignorance of not only biology in general, but how science is done in the world today. Does anyone really think that Wiley's field of research (or more precisely, the research carried out by his underlings...) is going to grind to a halt just because he died.

-SM

Edited for minor syntax








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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Assuming they weren't doing any secret research for the military.
I am not saying that I go for this conspiracy of the murdered microbiologists, but I wouldn't always assume that what any given researcher is working on is in the public domain.
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Where? How?
Secret research for the military tends to be conducted in secret government labs (USAMRIID, Ft. Detrick) not out in the open in universities. The hierarchal structure of science is such that research, unless sequestred in government or private institutes, isn't secret.

For some of the deceased (like Wiley), I doubt that they had done any actual physical experimental research at the lab bench in years.

-SM
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Government labs & research institute aren't always far from universities.
Professors do contract work. They own cars. They have internet connections. They take sabbaticals. Not all research is lab work - there is theoretical development, computer modeling, review of other researcher's work, statistical analysis, etc.

And universities are generally underfunded (at least they say they are) so professors are encouraged to take outside contracts from industry and government.

I just wouldn't count on reviewing a researcher's published work (or abstracts) as necessarily indicative of everything they do.
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Fair enough, but absent of any other evidence....
Edited on Sun Jan-23-05 07:53 PM by Sufi Marmot
...you can't argue convincingly for a conspiracy theory, or even a connection between the deaths. So far its just speculation, and nobody has come up any linking details. Show me some new facts and I might come to different conclusions, but all I ever see is the same old misrepresentation of 12-15 biologists/doctors of wildly disparate disciplines, levels of achievement, and causes of death classified as "world-class microbiologists".

And I'm not still not convinced that if the government really wanted to keep certain research secret they would farm it out to university professors. And at least one person on the list was not a professor, and may not have had an advanced degree.

-SM

On edit - The people who promulgate these lists would have a lot more credibility if they actually displayed some critical thinking and analysis skills, like this guy. (I don't necessarily agree with all his conclusions, but at least he's doing the hard work and being thoughtful...

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. connections:
five of the dead scientists worked for the Howard Hughes Medical Institute.

-- several of the researchers were working on DNA sequencing that could be used to pathogenically target a population of people based on a common genetic marker.

-- seven microbiologists were either murdered or "found dead" within FOUR MONTHS of each other. this was actually the big alarm that brought attention to the story. you don't think this is a connection?

-- just b/c researchers have different levels of expertise doesn't rule out connection. they were working in the same field. (since you seem to speak with authority of researcher yourself) you should be able to admit that assistants and "lesser" researchers aften do the real work while the department heads give the presentation of findings.

-- ALL of the researchers were working on communicable HUMAN diseases, viruses, immunology and/or DNA sequencing. no where is there mention of a reseacher in agricultural diseases (for example). this might be a good project -- to compare the number of mysterious deaths in agriculatural reseach with the number in microbiology.


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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Point by point...
1) HHMI is a funding agency. Every major university in the country has HHMI-funded researchers, my home institution has at least a dozen. Can you please list which researchers were directly receiving HHMI funds and not just working at an institution where somebody gets HHMI money?

2) -- several of the researchers were working on DNA sequencing that could be used to pathogenically target a population of people based on a common genetic marker. Which ones? Every molecular biology lab in the world uses DNA sequencing in some capacity or another. Robert Schwartz apparently, years ago worked on developing DNA sequencing techniques/technologies, but who else on the list did? Did any of them actually work with polymorphism analysis or human population variations?

3)-- seven microbiologists were either murdered or "found dead" within FOUR MONTHS of each other. this was actually the big alarm that brought attention to the story. you don't think this is a connection? How many lawyers or engineers were murdered or found dead in the same period. People can be "found dead" for any number of reasons - some of those, although obviously not all, of those on the list may well have died of natural causes.

4)-- just b/c researchers have different levels of expertise doesn't rule out connection. they were working in the same field. (since you seem to speak with authority of researcher yourself) you should be able to admit that assistants and "lesser" researchers aften do the real work while the department heads give the presentation of findings. No, they weren't all working in the same field - not even close. I realize I can say this an infinite number of times and some people will never believe me. This is what distresses me the most, the level of scientific illiteracy that supposes that because someone does work that is biological in nature that they are a microbiologist or work with infectious organisms, or that just because they work in a department where other research groups do microbiology that they themselves do that.

5) -- ALL of the researchers were working on communicable HUMAN diseases, viruses, immunology and/or DNA sequencing. no where is there mention of a reseacher in agricultural diseases (for example). this might be a good project -- to compare the number of mysterious deaths in agriculatural reseach with the number in microbiology. Again, no they weren't. There's no evidence that Im, Que, and Set were, for starters, nor the English astrobiologist if memory serves. Again, saying that someone works on/with "DNA sequencing" is meaningless in modern biology, biology labs do DNA sequencing like garages do oil changes.

-SM
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. point by point
1. the link here is the funding itself and the type of research it supported. you don't have to prove direct funding to make the connection.

2. you have changed the criteria from "world class" researchers, to "microbiologists" and now to "polymorphism" and "human population variations."

3. straw man alert -- first of all "lawyers" and "engineers" are larger categories than microbiologists working in public health. produce the numbers for these populations if you think there is a statistical correlation.

4. I'm citing their research as reported in their obituaries. no one is confused between "biology" and "microbiology." the info is out there. use google.

5. your memory isn't serving you well -- For extensive information about Dr. Benito Que, Dr Don C. Wiley, Dr. Robert M. Schwartz, and Dr. Set Van Nguyen, refer back to the May 2002 issue of The SPECTRUM, page 57, Gordon Thomas's article titled "Ml-6/CIA Probe Into Death Of Top Scientists In BioDefence Secrets Programs: Were They Victims Of China's Secret Intelligence Service For Refusing To Cooperate On Doomsday Weapons?"]

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Gordon Thomas is great! The CIA and Its Secret Experiments


MINDFIELD

· Sensational never-seen-before documents from inside the White House, CIA and other agencies.

· Reveals the documentary evidence that links US Vice-President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to the cover-up of the death of top CIA scientist, Frank Olson.



· Explains how the CIA financed a ruthless and systematic assault of the human psyche – using a British-born psychiatrist to spearhead the assault.

· Names other world renowned physicians who were involved in the most sinister research programme ever created by any United States government – and its secret partner – the British government.

· Reveals how a woman was programmed to become a CIA assassin.

· Describes how a CIA chemist was murdered by his own colleagues after he had turned to the one man he thought he could trust – a London psychiatrist engaged in similar work.

· Reveals how “expendables” – the CIA generic name for those selected for killing – were secretly murdered after they had been experimented on in Europe.

· Describes how the CIA used prostitutes and mental patients in other experiments.

· Explains how the CIA deliberately pioneered the drug culture whose effects are still with us.

· Reveals how the CIA agent selected to monitor the experiments eventually died at the hands of a physician steeped in the methods perfected by the CIA.

· Identifies how the CIA experiments are still carried on in secret establishments in Israel and China.

· Uncovers CIA terminal experiments on Vietcong prisoners in Vietnam.

· Publishes the CIA Manual of Assassination – a shocking document describing how to commit state-approved murder.

more
http://www.gordonthomas.ie/mindfield.htm

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. this stuff is fascinating -- i think part of the human interest is that
you've got these gentle "egg-heads" becoming the target of international intelligence and intrigue.

what's not to love?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. another thing -- many folks are aware of CIA involvement in drug
experienments for mind control, etc from the literary work of ken kesey and the pop-culture manifestation of icons such as tim leary. hell, 60 Minutes even did a piece on it.

given the recent revelation that the military was working on a Love Bomb to make the enemy irresisable to fox-hole mates -- is it hard to imagine they'd have interest in other forms of mind-control?

there's a bigger issue too -- peeps like sufi react to connecting the dots (inductively) b/c that can be called a "conspiracy theory."

the term "conspiracy theory" has little meaning outside of hurling ad hominem arguements. where there is power, there are people controlling the movement of players on the field. to ignore this is idiotic. to ignore connections simply b/c they can be painted with an emotion-laden term is good old fashioned prejudice.

not very scientific.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. nashville_brook here are some threads you may be interested in reading
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jjtss Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. If they were....
doing analysis of data, evaluation and reccomendations, they would not have to be on site often enough to be conspicuous.
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Why wouldn't the government just have kept it in-house...?
Especially if it's supposed to be top-secret? Surely the government has plenty of scientists who could do the analysis. And why bring a bunch of them in and then kill them? Sounds messy and reckless to me. And I'm still not convinced that most of these people had a background in infectious disease or bioterrorism-related research that would have been any interest to the federal government.

-SM
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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Our government does like outsourcing...
I know next to nothing about this but it does seem odd these guys keep dropping. I'd like to see a statistical study of microbiologists who have died. To see if it's just coincedence or if there is something more sinister at play.
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Most weren't microbiologists...
If you'd like to work out the statistics yourself, take everybody in the United States, Russia, and Isreal who has earned either a medical degree or a degree (of any kind) in biology over the last 40 years or so. That's your starting baseline.

-SM
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. the "government" outsources
currently the three most signifigant medical positions in the federal government are vacant -- surgeon general, head of the CDC, and director of NIH.

DynaCorp and Hadron defense contractors were awarded 322 million to develop, produce and store vaccines for the DoD. both of these companies are connected to classified resarch programs on communicable diseases and are also linked to PROMIS and INSLAW which could be used to track infection.

the Howard Hughes Medical Institute has a history of connection to murdered researchers. the most well-known case is Jose Trias who was planning to go public with evidence that HHMI was diverting grant money to "back door" black ops bioresearch. He and his wife were found dead in Chevey Chase MD, near the headquarters of HHMI. police described the scene as a "professional hit." Tsunao Saitoh, who worked for a HHMI-funded lab at Columbia was also killed in what appeared to police as a "professional hit."

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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Dr Larry Ford is out of the way now, so I guess the really bad stuff
Edited on Sun Jan-23-05 07:31 PM by EVDebs
is 'under control'. I've read "Hot Zone" and it seems viruses are suseptible to UV light. Anyone know how these guy's labs are secured is a more pressing security problem. Plum Island and other places now set to become labs...UC Davis ? This is a populated area near Sacramento. You'd think they'd be scared. Some places however with employment difficulties would welcome a Ft Detrick type lab...

http://archive.salon.com/health/feature/2000/06/26/biofem/print.html

Ford's stuff was still in his home refridgerator !
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Ford seems to have been an evil asshole...
I don't see any immediate link between him and any of the other deceased biologists, though...

-SM
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. ...his links to intelligence agencies worldwide and his "homework" n/t
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. What, specifically? n/t
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. ...again I refer you to the article (please read it)
Edited on Mon Jan-24-05 05:01 PM by EVDebs
""It was only later that Riley understood -- after Ford had shot himself with one of his many guns; after the city of Irvine put up 100 of Ford's suburban neighbors and their kids in the Hyatt for four days while the cops dug up Ford's backyard, removing automatic rifles from the concrete bunker beneath the jacaranda bushes, and tubes of cholera and typhoid fever germs from under the buffalo steaks in his deep freeze; after they rounded up a bunch of Ford's associates who seemed to have crawled out of a Ross MacDonald novel; after the FBI, CIA and ATF were brought in and Ford's connection to South Africa's Dr. Death was exposed. Only then did a gloomy realization settle upon Riley.""

and

""Ghoulish apartheid-era germ warfare experiments in South Africa are part of the story, and stashes of explosives and deadly germs and illegal firearms.""

http://archive.salon.com/health/feature/2000/06/26/biofem/print.html

This for openers. You may also want to google Dr Larry Ford and see specifics in those. Intelligence agencies aren't going to just GIVE you information you know. You're going to have to make inferences, such as if you YOU lived in Irvine, CA, what would YOU want done ?


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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. No, I meant what was Ford's connection....
...to any of the other deceased biologists. I'm not seeing it.... :shrug: But like I said, Ford appears to have been a creep with an unsavory past who was up to no good, who knows exactly what, but at least in this case there are a number of well-established facts.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. sure it would be easier, but my question was which ones don't fit
the profile.

any?
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Which profile?
"World-class" - only Wiley could have been considered world-class from the lists I've seen. No disrespect to the rest of the deceased, but by their publication records they can't be considered world-class, and that's the only way we have of evaluating that, absent any other info.

"Microbiologist" - Mostow, maybe, although he was really an M.D. Pasechnik, perhaps, earlier in his career; maybe one or two others who
I'm forgetting

"Bioterrorism research/related activity" Pasechnik, Kelly


Who doesn't fit the list:

Im

The old guy from Virginia who was murdered, if memory serves, by his freaky daughter

Tanya whatshername from San Francisco who was murdered by a deranged coworker

Bentio Que

Steven Mostow

the Vietnamese research assistant who suffocated in the airlock in Australia

the English astrobiologist

I don't consider Wiley to meet the critera based on what he worked on, he certainly wasn't a microbiologist


I'm sure that I'm forgetting some or that some have been added to the list...

-SM
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. counter-examples
you asserted that the list of research professionals did not fit the profile of working in the area of microbiology. that is not true.


Don Wiley -- was well known for work in virology.
Steven Mostow -- was an infectious disease expert.
Vladimir Pasechnik -- working on antibiotics alternatives
David Williams -- the English astrobiologist also is known for work in microbiology, exobiology and Antartic exploration
Set Van Nguyen -- the Vietnamese RA was a microbiologist.
Tanya Holzmayer -- bio-tech working on drugs to interfere with the replication of the AIDS virus
David Schwartz -- Founding member of Virgina Biotechnology Association (murdered in Virgina by an "adult and two teen-agers")
Jeong Im -- Chair of Michigan U microbiology and immunology dept.
Benito Que -- cell biologist working on DNA sequencing

this story has legs is that the researchers were wroking in the same FIELD -- not that they were "world-class."


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bin.dare Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. you say: "Jeong Im -- Chair of Michigan U microbiology and immunology dept
I've been accumulating data like this; can you give me the link or source, please? thanks.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. my bad -- here's the quote

Im was primarily a protein chemist. Mark McIntosh, chairman of the MU department of molecular microbiology and immunology, said he doubted the crime could have been the act of an angry student.



i skipped from "protein chemist" to the bit about Mark McIntosh.



do you have a complete list of the dead researchers with their affiliations?
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bin.dare Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. this is my list of names and dates ...
... i make no claim about the list other than it is of interest to me.

BTW, i see your mistake above: MU = Missouri Univ.

List of suspicious deaths:

Oct 4, 2001: Russian-born Israeli scientists?
Nov 5, 2001: Jeffrey Paris Wall
Nov 12, 2001: Benito Que
Nov 16, 2001: Don C. Wiley
Nov 21, 2001: Vladimir Pasechnik
Nov 24, 2001: Yaakov Matzner
Nov 24, 2001: Amiramp Eldor
Nov 24, 2001: Avishai Berkman,
Dec 10, 2001: Robert M. Schwartz
Dec 14, 2001: Nguyen Van Set

Feb 9, 2002: Victor Korshunov
Feb 14, 2002: Ian Langford
Feb 28, 2002: Tanya Holzmayer
Mar 24, 2002: David Wynn-Williams
Mar 25, 2002: Steven Mostow
Sep 30, 2002: Christopher Legallo
Oct 10, 2002: Linda Franklin

Jun 24, 2003: Leland Rickman
Jul 18, 2003: David Kelly
Nov 20, 2003: Robert Leslie Burghoff

Jul 3, 2004: Dr Paul Norman
Jul 29, 2004: John Mullen
Aug 12, 2004: John Clark

Jan 7, 2005: Jeong H. Im
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. thanks!
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Several misassertions...
Don Wiley -- was well known for work in virology.
X-ray crystallography of viral proteins, actually. It's misleading to imply he was a virologist who worked with live viruses.

Set Van Nguyen -- the Vietnamese RA was a microbiologist. What's the evidence for this, other than misleading conspiracy theory websites. I recall looking online and not finding anything that he'd published.

Jeong Im -- Chair of Michigan U microbiology and immunology dept. This is completely incorrect - Im was a retired assistant professor at the University of Missouri at Columbia. Link

Benito Que -- cell biologist working on DNA sequencingYes, Que was a cell biologist - he wasn't working on DNA sequencing per se, although his lab likely used it on a regular basis, like we all do

-SM
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. all microbiologists -- that was my assertion
you have not shown otherwise.

more interestingly,
why the emotional response? what is the conclusion you are working from?

it sounds like you might be a researcher yourself, but you don't offer any evidence for your positions. you can't even remember the names of the researchers -- nor bother to look them up.

science is about examining evidence -- right now there's plenty more evidence for foul play vis a vis microbiology and bio-terrorism than there is evidence to the contrary.
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. My point, again:


it sounds like you might be a researcher yourself, but you don't offer any evidence for your positions. you can't even remember the names of the researchers -- nor bother to look them up. I am a researcher, not that it will make any difference to you all. Every six months or so someone posts this conspiracy theory on DU and every six months or so I try to explain why I think the list is misguided. Sorry if I can't remember everyones name all the time, I was in a rush responding to this thread. I've seen numerous variations of the list, all slightly differnt. If I had time, I'd set up a blog detailing my opinions, but I don't have time at the moment. Maybe someday.

"all microbiologists -- that was my assertion" you have not shown otherwise. more interestingly, why the emotional response? what is the conclusion you are working from? My "emotional response", which, compared to most responses on DU, was rather subdued, but nevertheless arises out of mild annoyance when people continue to make certain claims, like that all the researchers were microbiologists, when they weren't, and I've provided some evidence to support my assertions. On this thread and in previous ones I've provided plenty of factual evidence, including linking directly to abstracts at times so as to provide others with insight into what is known about what those researchers were working on. I'll turn the question around: In what capacity were Im, Set, Holzmayer, Que, and Wiley microbiologists? In what capacity were they working on bioterrorism-related research?

science is about examining evidence -- right now there's plenty more evidence for foul play vis a vis microbiology and bio-terrorism than there is evidence to the contrary. I cordially but vehemently disagree, and would note that science is more than just trying to construct patterns from unlinked data based on crude and misleading labels ("microbiologist", "world class").

-SM
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. One other thing...
One reason we're seeing all these days, some (though not all) apparently from natural causes, is that the number of bioligical scientists in the world has increased considerably, possibly even exponentially, in the last 40+ years or so. Some of them are getting old and dying, and a few are dying younger, some by accidents (if memory serves one of the biologists on the list, the English Astro-geobiologist?) was hit by a car; Mostow and some Russian biologists died in plane crashes. Pasechnik reportedly died of a stroke/heart attack, which is not unlikely if he smoked, drank, and ate as poorly as most Russians tend to do. So it's not convincing when every biologist/physician who doesn't die of natural causes at age 75+ is added to the list.

-SM
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. "accidents" are small sample of deaths -- not 40 years-more like 40 months
no one is questioning the number of deaths in the "last 40 years" -- if the set were that large, no one would care. the reason why this is raising eyebrow is that the deaths have occured within MONTHS.

added to the number of microbiologists who were CLEARLY murdered -- some very professionally -- i would assert that the deaths that appear to you to have simple explanations, might not be so simple.

the number of microbiologists who seem to have died by natural causes is small compared to the number who were unquestionably murdered. but, even for these scientists, murder cannot/has not been ruled out.

the plane carrying the 5 microbiologists over siberia was SHOT DOWN by surface to air missiles

Williams was actually hit by two cars -- could have been an accident -- but there is certainly room for questioning foul play given the relatively enormous number of other microbiologists murdered.

sure, strokes happen all the time, naturally -- but it isn't unheard of that a stroke can be the result of foul play. but whether or not the russian died of natural causes doesn't shoot down the big picture that microbiologists who have been engaged in similar fields of research and MOREOVER have other connections such as receiving grants from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute.

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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. You misunderstand me, I mean the total sample pool...
Your starting number of the pool of people has to be anyone who has received a biology or medical degree in the last ~40 years, at least in America, England, Russia, Isreal and Australia, because that's what the people on the list are drawn from. I'm guessing that total is well into six figures, if not seven.

the number of microbiologists who seem to have died by natural causes is small compared to the number who were unquestionably murdered. but, even for these scientists, murder cannot/has not been ruled out. Again, most of these people weren't microbiologists.


and MOREOVER have other connections such as receiving grants from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute. See my other post about HHMI. Which of those researchers actually received Hughes money?

-SM
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. wrong again -- my starting point is people who have died recently
it makes no difference when they went to school. this is spurious.

see also my other posts on microbiologists. they were all microbiologists. their research has a common thread regarding public health and communicable diseases.


produce the evidence that they weren't.












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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #43
49. Yes it does matter, because it defines your total potential pool....
it makes no difference when they went to school. this is spurious. If there are ~20 unique people in the world, related in some obvious way, for argument lets use the 2004 Boston Red Sox, and 15 of them die under mysterious circumstances, then the obvious conclusion would be that there was possibly some kind of causal linkage between their deaths. Now lets assume ~20 Major League baseball players, present and former, die, out a pool of thousands, then things are somewhat less glaringly suspicious but still intruiging. However, if you change the circumstances to: 20 people who have at one time or another participated in organized sports (any sport) at the professional, college, or high school level die in a 4 year period, then you wouldn't blink an eye because the number of people in that pool is so huge. That's the point I'm trying to make. The scientists on that list aren't all microbiologists, all they have in common is some relation to biological research: some are Ph.D.s, some are M.D.s, one or two don't have graduate degrees. The total pool of people in the countries mentioned (USA, Russia, Isreal, England, Australia off the top of my head), who have either MDs or some kind of biology degree, is huge. That's the only commonality between the deceased that I can see, and have yet to see anyone produce and convincing evidence to the contrary. The whole argument for some kind of causal link boils down to two issues: What factors do the deceased have in common, and how many total people have those factors in common also?


produce the evidence that they weren't. I've stated numerous times, on this thread and others, why many on the list weren't microbiologists. In short, its because their published work doesn't appear to involve microbiology, that is, it doesn't relate to the study of microorganisms. Unless you can produce some evidence to the contrary, then there's no reason to think it did, and no reason to label them as "microbiologists". It just reflects a misunderstanding of the many different disciplines which comprise the biological sciences. So the onus is on you all to produce some evidence that they actually were.

see also my other posts on microbiologists. they were all microbiologists. their research has a common thread regarding public health and communicable diseases. Even if this were true, which I don't believe it is (Que, Im, Set, the English Astrobiologist, etc.), probably 75% of all the biology-related workers in the starting pool I described in my first paragraph, including all physicians, could be placed in this category.

-SM
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. as far as we know they didn't work on bio weapons
you think that's something uncle sam is going to encourage they put on their resumes?
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. See my post #14 n/t
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
32. inconsistent -- here you say the "profile" is that the microbiologists
need to be involved in infectious diseases and/or bio terrorism

later you say the "profile" is that the researchers rise to the level of "world class"

can you clarify? which is necessary and sufficient?
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #32
50. Well how about you or somebody pick one...
I'm not the one asserting potential causal linkage between the deaths, I'm just going by what others have asserted about those on the list, trying to explain why I think those assertions are incorrect about person X, Y, or Z. Either way works just fine for me, as I assert:

1) that at least half if not more of those on the list didn't work on bioterrorism related issues.

2) most of those on the list didn't work with directly with infectious diseases

3) that while the definition "world class" is vague and subjective, based on publication record, all but a few of the deceased could not be charitably described as "world class" (which says nothing about whether they were excellent scientists or not...)

I'm not even asserting casual linkage between the deaths of the few who meet 2/3 of those criteria - there's no supporting evidence.

It would help if people picked a list and stuck to it. For instance, on the list posted above there are a bunch of new names that I haven't ever seen on any of the older lists.

-SM
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. Did 22 UK scientists involved in SDI really commit suicide?
Here's a forgotten blast from the suspicious death past:

In the '80s, 22 British scientists involved in "Star Wars" research supposedly committed suicide. What's up with that?

Well, some speculate that SDI funding has other purposes than SDI. Alex Constantine makes a case for it being a cover for EM-pulse mind control experimentation. Which could explain some of the bizarre deaths of the UK scientists.

For instance:

Fifty-year-old Alistair Beckham was a successful British aerospace- projects engineer. His specialty was designing computer software for sophisticated naval defense systems. Like hundreds of other British scientists, he was working on a pilot program for America's Strategic Defense Initiative--better known as Star Wars. And like at least 21 of his colleagues, he died a bizarre, violent death.

It was a lazy, sunny Sunday afternoon in August 1988. After driving his wife to work, Beckham walked through his garden to a musty backyard toolshed and sat down on a box next to the door. He wrapped bare wires around his chest, attached the to an electrical outlet and put a handkerchief in his mouth. Then he pulled the switch.

With his death, Beckham's name was added to a growing list of British scientists who've died or disappeared under mysterious circumstances since 1982. Each was a skilled expert in computers, and each was working on a highly classified project for the American Star Wars program. None had any apparent motive for killing himself.

http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/sdi-deaths.html

Some examples of their deaths:

DEATH LEAP--Jonathan Walsh, 29, digital-communications expert assigned to British Telecom's secret Martlesham Health research facility (and to GEC, Marconi's parent firm). In November 1985 Walsh allegedly fell from his hotel room while working on a British Telecom project in Abidjan, Ivory Coast (Africa). He had expressed a fear for his life. Verdict: Still in question.

DECAPITATION--Ashaad Sharif, 26, computer analyst, Marconi Defense Systems. In October 1986, in Bristol, Sharif allegedly tied one end of a rope around a tree and the other end around his neck, then drove off in his car at high speed. Verdict: Suicide.

SUFFOCATION--Richard Pugh, computer consultant for the Ministry of Defense. In January 1987 Pugh was found dead, wrapped head-to- toe in rope that was tied four times around his neck. The coroner listed his death as an accident due to a sexual experiment gone awry.
http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/sdi-deaths.html
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. They're probably plannig to depopulate earth a certain amount?
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. My friend's death fits that same profile
He formed a wall street company that does several percent of the NYSE
volume even today called www.tradeware.com.. worth several tens of millions of dollars today. . He invented some technology
that the US navy was using for deep underwater breathing gas mixing,
and he was killed in a helicopter crash in november 2002, off sag harbour
Long island... his helicopter... just up and crashed...

I accept that it was probably a coincidence like Paul Wellstone's death
and all these on this thread, but it is all a bit odd. Will Smithers
was a brilliant and beautifully gifted magnificent person, and it saddens me,
even now, to recall his untimely death.

Perhaps the amerika has just changed, and good, wise and intelligent
people have reached their karmic maxima in the new reich republic and
are dropping off like flies, one by one, leaving only the ugly and
horrible to replace them. I sympathize with this chap. There is an
enement of truth in the concern for soooooo many coincidences.
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SophieZ Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. There is a point where coincidence theory starts to fail.
Edited on Sun Jan-23-05 10:25 PM by SophieZ
And conspiracy (more than one person acting together, generally secretly, to do illegal actions) becomes more likely.

I spent a fair amount of time following the Wellstone crash, starting the day it happened. Even the NTSB report failed to come up with a real reason for it, despite the fact that "bad weather" and "icing" were bandied about constantly in the media in the hours and days after the tragedy. Neither of those were found to be a factor. When the TWO pilots are within minutes of landing the plane, in sight of the little airport, "pilot error" as a reason seems odd, especially when the pilots failed to radio in at any time and say, "Hey, we're having a problem!"

As for the microbiologists, people dying off of natural causes is one thing, but the nature of these deaths is certainly odd.

See:
The Odds of That

By LISA BELKIN
NEW YORK TIMES
AUG. 11, 2002

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/11/magazine/11COINCIDENCE.html?pagewanted=7
If you're not getting the entire URL, here is the end of it:
11COINCIDENCE.html?pagewanted=7

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also
Raindog posted this at DU on 7/18/03

an exerpt from Paul Thompson's cooperativeresearch.org

this is a cut and paste of the scientist info from his site. and a reminder of recent history...

<http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/home.htm>
part 1 October 2, 2001
(B): The "anti-terrorism" USA Patriot Act is introduced in Congress, but is not well received by all. One day later, Senate Majority Leader and future anthrax target Tom Daschle (D) says he doubts the Senate will take up this bill in the one week timetable the administration wants. As head of the Senate, Daschle has great power to block or slow passage of the bill. Attorney General Ashcroft accuses Senate Democrats of dragging their feet.

On October 4, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman and future anthrax target Patrick Leahy (D) accuses the Bush administration of reneging on an agreement on the anti-terrorist bill. Leahy is in a key position to block or slow the bill. Some warn that "lawmakers are overlooking constitutional flaws in their rush to meet the administration's timetable." Two days later, Ashcroft complains about "the rather slow pace…over his request for law enforcement powers… Hard feelings remain." The anthrax letters to Daschle and Leahy are sent out on October 9 and difficulties in passing the Act continue (see October 9, 2001). Could Daschle and Leahy have been targeted by some person or entity who wanted to see the USA Patriot Act pass?

October 4, 2001: The first case of anthrax infection, in Florida, appears in the media. Letters containing anthrax continue to be received until October 19. After many false alarms, it turns out that only four letters contain real anthrax. They are sent to NBC, New York Post, Democratic Senator Daschle and Democratic Senator Leahy. There are a number of hoax letters however, likely sent by the same person to all the recipients of the real anthrax letters, plus to CBS, Fox News, New York Times, and the St. Petersberg Times. Eleven people are infected, five people die.

October 9, 2001: Senator Feingold (D) blocks an attempt to rush the USA Patriot Act to a vote with little debate and no opportunity for amendments. Feingold criticizes the bill as a threat to liberty. One day earlier, in the story "Cracks in Bipartisanship Start to Show," the Washington Post reports, "Congress has lost some of the shock-induced unity with which it first responded to the <9/11> attacks." Also on October 9, identical anthrax letters are postmarked in Trenton, New Jersey, with lethal doses to Senators Daschle and Leahy. Inside both letters are the words: "Death to America, Death to Israel, Allah is Great" (see October 15, 2001).

October 10-11, 2001: The FBI allows the original batch of the Ames strain of anthrax to be destroyed, making tracing the anthrax type more difficult. Suspicions that the anthrax used in the letters was the Ames strain are confirmed on October 17. What possible excuse can the FBI have for allowing this destruction, especially when the Ames strain was already suspected?

October 14, 2001 (B): Investigators of the anthrax attacks believe Iraq is the prime suspect. One CIA source says, "They aren't making this stuff in caves in Afghanistan. 'This is prima facie evidence of the involvement of a state intelligence agency. Maybe Iran has the capability. But it doesn't look likely politically. That leaves Iraq." However, this theory lasts only a few days.

On October 20, the International Herald Tribune reports a new theory: "A disgruntled employee of a domestic laboratory that uses anthrax carried out the attacks." It also states investigators "have tentatively concluded that is a domestic strain that bears no resemblance to strains that Russia and Iraq have turned into biological weapons." However, in late 2002 with war against Iraq growing increasingly likely, the Iraq theory appears to make a comeback (see October 28, 2002).

October 15, 2001: Senator Daschle's office opens the letter mailed October 9, containing a lethal dose of anthrax. Senator Leahy's similar letter is misrouted to Virginia on October 12, and isn't discovered until November 17.

October 15, 2001 (B): The BBC says "Bush has pointed the finger at Osama bin Laden" for the anthrax attacks. Bush states, "There may be some possible link. We have no hard data yet, but it's clear that Mr. Bin Laden is an evil man."

October 16-17, 2001: 28 congressional staffers test positive for anthrax. The Senate office buildings are shut down, followed by the House of Representatives.

October 18, 2001: Canada overrides Bayer's patent for Cipro and orders a million tablets of a generic version from another company. The US says it is not considering a similar move. Patent lawyers and politicians state that adjusting Bayer's patent to allow other companies to produce Cipro is perfectly legal and necessary. The New York Times notes that the White House seems "so avidly to be siding with the rights of drug companies to make profits rather than with consumers worried about their access to the antibiotic Cipro," and points out huge recent contributions by Bayer to Republicans.

October 21, 2001: The Bayer Corporation, holders of the US patent on the anthrax antibiotic Cipro, agrees with the US to reduce the price of Cipro in the US from $1.83 to 95 cents. Analysts say the price reduction will reduce Bayer's profit margin from 95% to 65%. This reduction applies only to sales to the US government, not sales to the public. Bayer has allowed no other companies to produce or import Cipro into the US. Other countries with less stringent patent laws sell Cipro for 1/30th the US price, and have offered to import large quantities into the US. Nevertheless, a class action suit by over one million Americans has been filed against Bayer and two other companies, alleging that Bayer has paid $200 million to two competitors to not make generic versions of Cipro. The profits from Cipro are considered a "lifesaver" for Bayer, which had been considering pulling out of pharmaceuticals altogether.

October 23, 2001: The New York Times reports that health officials and experts believe numerous other drugs are as effective as Cipro in combating anthrax. "Several generic antibiotics, including doxycycline, a kind of tetracycline, and various penicillins, are also effective against the disease," and they all are in plentiful supply. A 1997 Pentagon study of anthrax in rhesus monkeys showed the other drugs to be equally effective. But Cipro remains the only drug officially recommended by the FDA (see July 27, 2000).

October 24, 2001: The House of Representatives passes the final version of the USA Patriot Act and other previously unpopular Bush projects: Alaska oil drilling, $25 billion in tax cuts for corporations, taps into Social Security funds and cuts in education. Republican Congressman Ron Paul states: "It's my understanding the bill wasn't printed before the vote - at least I couldn't get it. They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote." It is later found that only two copies of the bill were made available in the hours before its passage, and most House members admit they voted for the Act without actually reading it first. Two days later, the Senate passes the final version of the USA Patriot Act. Anthrax targets Senators Daschle and Leahy now support the bill. Bush signs it into law the same day. Were the anthrax attacks a deliberate plot to help pass the USA Patriot Act, and whip up public support?

October 27, 2001 (B): The US government no longer thinks bin Laden is behind the anthrax attacks: "Everything seems to lean toward a domestic source... Nothing seems to fit with an overseas terrorist type operation." The Washington Post suggests neo-Nazi groups are behind it. Not long after, the FBI releases a profile of the perpetrator of the anthrax attacks. He is suspected of being a lone, male domestic terrorist, with a scientific background and laboratory experience who could handle hazardous materials. On the same day, the London Times claims that Atta was given a flask of anthrax by an Iraqi agent in April 2001, which then was used in the US anthrax attacks. However, US and Czech officials eventually conclude the meeting never even took place (see September 19, 2001-October 20, 2002).

November 12, 2001: The beginning of numerous mysterious deaths of renowned microbiologists. A good place to start learning about this is a Globe and Mail article, which calls these deaths a "tale only the best conspiracy theorist could dream up" yet hard to explain (The Memphis Flyer also provides a good overview, but is much more speculative: ). The first dead microbiologist is Dr. Benito Que, 52, was "an expert in infectious diseases and cellular biology at the Miami Medical School. Police originally suspected that he had been beaten on November 12 in a carjacking in the medical school's parking lot. Strangely enough, though, his body showed no signs of a beating. Doctors then began to suspect a stroke."

November 16, 2001: Dead microbiologist: Dr. Don Wiley, 57, disappears during a business trip to Memphis, Tennessee. He had just bought tickets to take his son to Graceland the following day. Police found his rental car on a bridge outside Memphis. His body was later found in the Mississippi River. Forensic experts said he may have had a dizzy spell and fallen off the bridge. Police will only say, "We began this investigation as a missing person investigation. From there it went to a more criminal bent." "Wiley is seen as one of the world's leading researchers of deadly viruses, including HIV and the Ebola virus." Wiley worked at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute at Harvard University, and was an expert on the immune system's response to viral attacks. He was widely regarded as the nation's foremost expert in using special X-ray cameras and mathematical formulas to make high-resolution images of viruses. The FBI is monitoring the investigation because of his research knowledge.

November 21, 2001 (B): Dead microbiologist: World-class microbiologist and high-profile Russian defector Dr. Vladimir Pasechnik, 64, dies of a stroke. Pasechnik, who defected to Britain in 1989, had played a huge role in the development of Russian biowarfare, heading a lab of 400 "with an unlimited budget" and "the best staff available." He says he succeeded in producing an aerosolized plague microbe that could survive outside the laboratory. He was connected to Britain's spy agency and recently had started his own company. "In the last few weeks of his life he had put his research on anthrax at the disposal of the Government, in the light of the threat from bioterrorism."

November 24, 2001: Three more dead microbiologists: A Swissair flight from Berlin to Zurich crashes during its landing approach; 22 are killed and nine survive. Among those killed are Dr. Yaakov Matzner, 54, dean of the Hebrew University school of medicine; Amiramp Eldor, 59, head of the haematology department at Ichilov Hospital in Tel Aviv and a world-recognized expert in blood clotting; and Avishai Berkman, 50, director of the Tel Aviv public health department and businessman.

November 30, 2001: A report suggests that the strain of anthrax used in the attacks likely originated from USAMRIID and was shared with only a small number of other labs. USAMRIID gave it to Battelle Memorial Institute, in Columbus, Ohio; the University of New Mexico Health Sciences Center, in Albuquerque, New Mexico; the Defense Research Establishment Suffield, in Canada; the US Army Dugway Proving Ground, in Utah; and the Chemical Defense Establishment at Porton Down, Britain. These in turn sent it to seven more labs, for a total of a dozen. But only five labs total received the virulent form, and some of these may have received strains that were too old (it is known the anthrax used was two years old or less).

December 10, 2001: Dead microbiologist: "Dr. Robert Schwartz, 57, was stabbed and slashed with what police believe was a sword in his farmhouse in Leesberg, Va. His daughter, who identifies herself as a pagan high priestess, and three of her fellow pagans have been charged." All were part of what they called a coven, and interested in magic, fantasy and self-mutilation. The police have no motive as to why they would have wanted to kill Schwartz, who was a single parent and said to be very close to his children. Schwartz worked at Virginia's Center for Innovative Technology on DNA sequencing and pathogenic microorganisms. He was "a brilliant scientist who had a gift for explaining complex scientific subjects in simple language."

December 13, 2001: The US Army responds to a journalistic investigation and confirms that it has been making weapons grade anthrax in recent years, in violation of an international treaty. The US offensive biological weapons program was supposedly closed in 1969 when the US signed a biological weapons treaty. In 1998 scientists at the Army's Dugway Proving Ground in Utah turned small quantities of wet anthrax into powder. This weaponized anthrax appears to be very similar or identical to the anthrax used in the recent attacks.

December 14, 2001: Dead microbiologist: Nguyen Van Set, 44, dies in an airlock filled with nitrogen in his lab in Geelong, Australia. The lab had just been written up in the journal Nature for its work in genetic manipulation and DNA sequencing. Scientists there had created a virulent form of mousepox. "They realized that if similar genetic manipulation was carried out on smallpox, an unstoppable killer could be unleashed," according to Nature.

December 21, 2001 (B): The FBI is now investigating "whether potential profit from the sale of anthrax medications or cleanup efforts may have motivated" the anthrax attacks. Battelle, a company doing anthrax work for the CIA, is the one company most discussed in the article and is strongly featured in another. The same day, the FBI says it is not investigating a former Battelle scientist in relation to an anthrax scare, contrary to national broadcast news reports. A US Senator further claims FBI Director Mueller told him "no one with or formerly with Battelle is a suspect." Is Bayer also under investigation (see October 21, 2001)?

January 2002: Two dead microbiologists: Ivan Glebov and Alexi Brushlinski. Pravda reports that Glebov died as the result of a bandit attack and reports without explanation that Brushlinski was killed in Moscow. Both were "well known around the world" and members of the Russian Academy of Science.


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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Couple of inaccuracies in that list...
December 14, 2001: Dead microbiologist: Nguyen Van Set, 44, dies in an airlock filled with nitrogen in his lab in Geelong, Australia. The lab had just been written up in the journal Nature for its work in genetic manipulation and DNA sequencing. Scientists there had created a virulent form of mousepox. "They realized that if similar genetic manipulation was carried out on smallpox, an unstoppable killer could be unleashed," according to Nature.

The institute where Nguyen Van Set died is in Geelong, Australia. The institute where the mousepox virus was created is in Canberra - several hundred kilometers away and in different Territory entirely.
Link #1
Link #2


The first dead microbiologist is Dr. Benito Que, 52, was "an expert in infectious diseases and cellular biology at the Miami Medical School. Police originally suspected that he had been beaten on November 12 in a carjacking in the medical school's parking lot. Strangely enough, though, his body showed no signs of a beating. Doctors then began to suspect a stroke." Nothing he published suggests that Que was an "expert in infectious diseases"

December 10, 2001: Dead microbiologist: "Dr. Robert Schwartz, 57, was stabbed and slashed with what police believe was a sword in his farmhouse in Leesberg, Va. His daughter, who identifies herself as a pagan high priestess, and three of her fellow pagans have been charged." All were part of what they called a coven, and interested in magic, fantasy and self-mutilation. The police have no motive as to why they would have wanted to kill Schwartz, who was a single parent and said to be very close to his children. Schwartz worked at Virginia's Center for Innovative Technology on DNA sequencing and pathogenic microorganisms. He was "a brilliant scientist who had a gift for explaining complex scientific subjects in simple language." This Virginia Center for Innovative Technology seems to be a PPP designed to funnel money from the Federal Government to Virginia technology companies - I don't think they're a laboratory, check out their staff list, all finance and funding people rather than scientists. I can't find anything on Pubmed for Schwartz RM that suggests he was a microbiologist, although there are some earlier abstracts from the 80s about DNA sequencing (today used in nearly every extant molecular biology lab...) Given the fact that he was apparently murdered by his daugher and her messed-up friends I'm not sure why he merits inclusion on this list.
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dvaravati Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
29. Im went back in time to kill himself
because he found out how horrible his time machine effects civilization.
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