Yushchenko takes reins in Ukraine

[alexisfree]

Viktor Yushchenko has taken the oath of office as Ukraine's new president, ending a bruising election marathon.

Mr Yushchenko then addressed hundreds of thousands of supporters in Kiev's Independence Square.

The president, who has pledged to move closer to the West, told the crowd: "Our way to the future is the way of a united Europe."

more....http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4198957.stm

[jayctravis]

1. Go Ukraine!

They had a crisis, and they handled it.

That looks like an inauguration.

[alexisfree]

2. this is what an inauguration....

should suppose look like...?

[radric]

3. I don't think the Russian speaking part of the Ukraine..

was celebrating.

[TankLV]

4. Too bad. It's their choice.

They don't even care to speak Ukrainian in the Ukraine - they tried to outlaw the Ukrainian Language THIS LAST ELECTION and make russian the official language of the Ukraine.

Don't you agree that that is entirely wrong?

They made their rotten bed - let them lie in it.

If they want to continue to call themselves Ukrainian and participate in Ukrainian politics, perhaps they should try respecting the Ukrainain language and culture, don't you think?

[alexisfree]

7. agree...

[daleo]

8. Perhaps all French Canadians should have to learn English.

For the record, that's just a rhetorical statement. I don't think any such thing, and am pointing out how applying this reasoning in other parts of the world sounds.

Do you have a fuller explanation of who "they" are - the ones that tried to outlaw the Ukrainian language in the Ukraine? Was this the last government or some small political group. Also, did they want to make Russian the official language throughout the Ukraine or just in the eastern, mostly Russian speaking part. And is this the part of the Ukraine that Stalin "gave" to the Ukraine during the Soviet Union era?

We need more context for such a sweeping assertion.

[TankLV]

12. Look up the links for yourself.

I and others have provided many links to the facts on other threads on this subject.

Look up my name and do a search. I'm tired of repeating the same things over for yahoos who have no intention of learning the truth and the facts, and just insist on spewing strawmen and lies.

The Russians placed in the Ukraine after the Russians under Stalin starved millions of Ukrainians to death in 1931-32 are the very same russians who do what I said.

Russia didn't "give" the Ukrainians anything. They took it themselves.

And yes, they wanted to make it easier for themselves to make russian the official language for the ENTIRE Ukraine.

Their "compromise" now that they've lost is to have 2 languages. That is no "compromise".

This is not in any way shape or form like the Quebec situation, which incidentally was settled by the French who were similarly oppressed by the powerful English speakers. A more appropriate analogy would be exactly what the French speaking Quebecois are doing in Quebec regarding insisting on FRENCE as the language of Quebec - but even that is totally comparing apples to oranges.

A more appropriate analogy would be to for the French to speak English only in France because it would be easier for the English speaking.

[daleo]

14. Well, two official languages is the compromise Canada settled on.

It is probably the most reasonable compromise for any country that has a large linguistic minority, regardless of the specific history of how that came to be. I don't get the feeling you think that is correct for the Ukraine, though.

It is probably best to leave it at that.

[podnoi]

19. Absolutely!

Yuschenko could have easily won the east over. Most of them are not driven by the ethnic rivalry that many in the west appear to be caught up in. They just wanted to be assured they would not be marginalized or persecuted.

No one liked Kuchma. When given a choice of two candidates, one who's platform was responsive to their needs and the other who seemed more interested in those who hated them who are they going to pick for goodness sakes?

It is of great concern to the east why Yuschenko did not extend a hand... and why he is pushing for the one PM that expressed the severist Nationalistic tendancies shows further that insensitivity.

This aint so one sided.

[TankLV]

23. That was the original position of the Ukrainians.

They are just like the repukes forcing the issue of prohibiting marriage of gay persons, and then when we resist and point out the hatred and illogic and bigotry of it, they lie and say that the GLBT community is trying to push gay marriage on them!

The russians living in the Ukraine insisted on the russian language as the ONLY official language!

So, now that they have tried to steal this election and were caught, now they ask for "moderation" and "compromise"! How very "noble" of them!

If the Ukrainian people decide that that's what they want, then so be it. But to insist on forcing one's culture on a native people because they occupyed a country by force, and not permit the native people their cultural practices, is pretty evil if you ask me.

[daleo]

27. I suppose native Indians of Canada or the U.S. have a grievance too.

"But to insist on forcing one's culture on a native people because they occupied a country by force, and not permit the native people their cultural practices, is pretty evil if you ask me."

As a Canadian of European background, I have to confess to feeling that my own ancestor's treatment of the native inhabitants may not have been any better (maybe worse) than what Russians did in the Ukraine.

My wife is Finnish, so I have heard something of the practice of Russian imperialism in that area of the world (Czarist era and Soviet era). So, I am not diminishing the history of the Ukraine in regard to Russian imperialism. I understand that being of Ukrainian heritage, you have passionate feelings on the subject.

I guess I am just saying that history is complex, and often a litany of crimes. Sometimes you have to do the best you can for justice in the here and now, and get past historical injustices. Easier said than done, I know. But ultimately, it is the only way I can see people living together successfully.

And that concludes my pious sermon. O8)

[podnoi]

31. Exactly

Does anyone believe that only "true Ukrainians" in the western half of the country? How can people be so foolish as to fall for this ethnic hatred based delusion?

The country is divided in direction. More than one half of all Ukrainians speak Russian better than Ukrainian. The eastern half did not feel Yuschenko cared about them and they are also concerned about ethnic based false nationalism being used to disinfranchise half the population (you know, the kind of things Rebublicans like to do?), which seems to be rearing it's ugly head.

[podnoi]

18. The Soviet Union did this. Not Ukrainians with Russian Ancestry!!

Many in the East were also persecuted during this time. Your anger is misplaced and you are entering the same territory the Soviets you claim to despise.
There is no more soviet union. Don't advocate Racial intolerance of Russian Ukrainians. They are not immigrants. They were born there and you cannot advocate sweeping them out or persecuting them!!

DU members, is ethnic prejudice good under any name?!!!! That is what Tank and many in the "orange Revolution" are advocating!!!!

[TankLV]

21. That is only in your mind. YOU are the one showing prejudice.

I am stating fact.

You don't like the truth.

Two wrongs don't make a right. As for the "persecution" of the russians in the Ukraine, don't make me puke. It doesn't even come close.

There is no such thing as "Ukrainians with russian ancestry". They are RUSSIANS. Only Ukrainians are Ukrainians. Just like only the French can be French. Russians choose to live in the Ukraine, but have and would again deny Ukrainians of practicing their culture and language.

I'm not the one advocating racial intolerance here - it is the russians who are and have been doing it as demonstrated by their history in the Ukraine up to this point!

For russians such as yourself to accuse those of the "orange revolution" of advocating what you are projecting on us without any merit is the height of lies and distortion.

Imagine, Ukrainians wanting to have Ukrainian culture and language IN THEIR OWN HOMELAND! Pretty awful, huh?

These russians are the ones who have/are persecuting the Ukrainians in their own homeland! And now you poor russians are not pleased that the Ukrainian people will not take it any more! How arrogant can you be?!?!?!

I have never advocated persecuting them or kicking them out. If they don't respect the culture and language of their so-called adopted land, while persecuting and urging violence against Ukrainians, then they deserve NO support from ANYONE!

[podnoi]

30. You are wrong

How far do you go back in ancestry before someone deserves to be considered a "true Ukrainian". Tank you are racist.
There are all kinds of French who have ancestors from many countries. In fact I am sure you have ancestors from other countries. Unless you are claiming to have perfect blood.

If someone is born in Ukraine they are Ukrainian. And the people in the eastern half of the country who you like to desparage were born in the country. What do you want to do, do an ancestry test? To claim only those who have the right bloodline have political rights is racist.

[TankLV]

33. Bullshit. Only in your mindl. You are a russian propagandist.

You will not stop until the russians control everything, and the Ukrainains are strangers in their own country!

Me a racist - that is rich from a racist like you!

Everything you say reeks of racism and discrimination and falsehoods.

If a the russians had respected the culture and language of the Ukrainains, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But now that the Ukrainians, who have been victimized by these same russians are finally fighting back, now you claim racism and injustice. That is really rich.

We all can see what you are.

[podnoi]

35. Once again you call the east "Russians"

The people in the east are Ukrainians. What planet are you from?

And once again, you know from my earlier post I believe in nuance... that it is not black and white. Who supports "Russia" or Putin, certainly not me.

I am simply against the disinfranchisement and racism that is occuring and for all people to be heard, that was not the case in the "Orange Revolution" and is still not the case with the choice of a radical nationalist as PM.

Sorry Tank, but anyone who advocates that half their country's citizens are less and different (in a derogatory sense) than they, because they have a slightly different culture, is a racist.

[makhno]

10. Please provide a link ...

... for the following statement:

they tried to outlaw the Ukrainian Language THIS LAST ELECTION and make russian the official language of the Ukraine.

A lot of people here in the US don't follow foreign politics that closely, and by spreading inflammatory falsehoods such as these you're not doing anybody any favors.

As an aside, what is your opinion on bilingual education here in the United States? Are you opposed to Spanish-language signs in Florida and California?

[TankLV]

13. What I said is a fact. What you are spreading is "falsehoods".

Yuschenko's russian opposing candidate wasn't even Ukrainian, didn't even speak a word of Ukrainian IN THE FUCKING COUNTRY HE WAS TRYING TO BE LEADER OF!

Spanish language signs in addition to English signs is fine in those and many other areas in the southwest, etc.

But to force such idiocy on Buffalo, or Chicago with large Russian, Italian, or Polish populations without insisting on such signs in THOSE languages is an insult to those ethnic groups.

My grandparents and others had to learn English to survive and thrive in their new adopted country. I demand no less from anyone else.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. Come on, TankLV, you need to provide some evidence

Here's some saying that the Russian speakers only ever wanted Russian as the second official language:

Yushchenko also said adopting Russian as a second official language must receive broad popular support and the backing of a majority of parliament.

He also has said repeatedly that he would defend Ukrainians' right to speak whatever language they want.

``The issue of introducing Russian as the second official language has been too politicized,'' a report posted on Yushchenko's Web site said, citing his interview with local media.

http://news.bostonherald.com/international/view.bg?articleid=60126&format=text

Yanukovych, 54, who is running with the endorsement of Kuchma and the encouragement of Russian President Vladimir Putin, says he would make Russian the country's second language and permit Ukrainians to hold Russian citizenship. He is anti-NATO and wants a security alliance with Russia.

http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/45856.php

And a story saying there were moves to stop Russian being broadcast:

President of Ukraine, Leonid Kuchma, called the decision to use only the state language in the media as unconstitutional.

This decision was made by the Ukrainian National TV and Radio Council, on April 14. Speaking to journalists in the Crimean town of Bakhchisarai, Kuchma said that “this decision contradicts the fundamental law, and it must be brought into correspondence with the constitution. I am sure this will be done,” Interfax news agency quoted him as saying.

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/04/22/ukraine.shtml

So where are the stories about banning Ukrainian? Put up or shut up.

[podnoi]

16. Don't listen to Ethnic Prejudiced information

It has been said by one one this board that anyone who isn't able to learn the language (Ukraine) should be kicked out of the country.

I had a discussion with other friends here from Kyiv who said the same thing. That is my fear... the Orange revolution is run by anger and a desire for "vengence". They consider the eastern half second class citizens. I am not one to think of either candidate as "clean". But the hypocrisy and venom of some of the west needs to be exposed in the hope that it will moderate their rule.

Read the statements by the British Helinski Human Rights foundation!http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CRG412A.html
Leave behind the propaganda and nationalists. There is nothing wrong with moving toward EU if that really happens. But if an entire group of people are marginalized and persecuted what has been gained.

I have relatives in the east and there was massive vote fraud that was not reported.

TANK, THE SOVIET UNION IS GONE. And my family did nothing to you or any other of their fellow Ukrainians, damit! They are as peaceful people as they come and don't deserve this crap.

[FlemingsGhost]

17. I simply don't understand the Yushchenko love-fest here.

That election was fucked through and through.

[TankLV]

34. That is what YOU are saying. I never said anything of the kind.

Don't put words into my mouth!

I never said "anyone who isn't able to learn the language (Ukraine) should be kicked out of the country" - never - that is totally contrary to what I said and believe.

I said anyone who has shown a history of preventing the practice and celebration and use of Ukrainian language and culture IN THEIR OWN FUCKIN COUNTRY should have NO respect or say in what the UKRAINIANS want for their OWN COUNTRY!

I did not say that they should be kicked out.

So if a buch of non-french decide to move to France, do you think they have a right to demand that only THEIR lanuage and culture and history be supported and that French language and culture be supressed? Because this is what had happened until the Ukraine gained it's independence and what these same russians are doing TODAY!

[podnoi]

15. No one tried to make Russian the official language

Why are you saying that Tank? You know it is not true.
And the east are not immigrants!! You and the others have no right to say learn it (Ukrainian) or leave. It is their home!!

For those interested in what was left out of the media..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1521358

[podnoi]

20. *kick*

[TankLV]

22. So - the UKRAINE is not the Ukrainian's home?

Riiiiight!

[podnoi]

29. Huh?

I guess I didn't get that.

[podnoi]

38. EASTERN HALF OF UKRAINE SUFFERED SEVERELY

during the genocide.

Take a look at the map.
All this racist crap about the west "true Ukrainians" vs the east, the east supposedly being less noble, etc.

Look at the map and the red areas where forced starvation was worst. Notice the dark red in *EASTERN and SOUTHERN UKRAINE* (and SouthEastern RUSSIA (what is now Russia).

http://faminegenocide.com/resources/famine_map.html

"The highest death rates were in the grain growing provinces of Poltava (East), Dnipropetrovsk (East), Kirovohrad (West) and Odessa (South): usually 20-25%, although higher in many villages."

Now that is put to rest, what about just moving on and learning to treat *all* one's countrymen with respect, dignity, and without disenfranchising anyone.

[TankLV]

5. This is a great day for the Ukrainian people.

I wish my fellow Ukrainians well.

They deserve some good news and happiness.

[RockStar]

6. They are celebrating the peoples choice for President? How did we

celebrate it here? Full of protest and disgust. What a diffrence between a country overseas and us.

[alexisfree]

9. it was really drepresing ...lookig back.....

On the actual day of inauguration, people travel from across the country to view both the swearing-in and the inaugural parade. Bill Clinton's second inaugural had almost 250,000 people in attendance and over 6,000 marchers in the parade. Hundreds of school groups, political junkies and marching bands spend months raising money, making the trip to Washington D.C. to bear witness to the ascension of a new American president.

[proudbluestater]

11. C-Span covered Yushchenko's speech live

It was quite revealing, how a fledging democracy operates contrasted to how our "democracy" operates. There, no military was required to guard a man despised, all you saw were many well wishers for a man most people seem to love.

[non sociopath skin]

24. I found the discussion here very useful.

It will be interesting to see whether Yushchenko's Presidency is a genuinely healing process or merely leads to further polarization.

The Skin

[Tsiyu]

25. Yushchenko Seeks EU Membership for Ukraine

By CONSTANT BRAND
Associated Press Writer





STRASBOURG, France (AP) -- Viktor Yushchenko made his first trip to the West as Ukraine's president Tuesday, seeking recognition of the former Soviet republic's right to join the European Union and other Western institutions.

Yushchenko called on the EU to commit by 2007 to membership talks and said he would push through democratic reforms to aid Ukraine's bid to join the 25-nation bloc.

Coming after the dramatic "people power" showdown that put the Western-leaning reformer in office, his appearance increased pressure on EU officials to embrace Ukraine at a time of little appetite among members for further expansion into poorer parts of Europe. It also could raise concerns in the Kremlin about the weakening of Russian influence over another former Soviet republic.

"We have a three-year action plan. We would like it to end in 2007 with a concrete commitment," Yushchenko told The Associated Press and two European newspapers shortly before leaving for Kiev after a speech at the Council of Europe, the continent's top human rights body.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UKRAINE_PRESIDENT?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Chicago Democrat]

28. I want to be a Ukrainian!

Can I move there? They look like they know how to have fun! WOW...

[podnoi]

37. Ukrainians are wonderful people -Both east and west :)

[RockStar]

32. kick

[Carolab]

36. Poor guy still looks like crap though.

[podnoi]

39. kick