For the Ashes of the Aborted, Burial at a Catholic Church

[ruggerson]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/24/national/24fetus.html

<snip>

By KIRK JOHNSON

Published: January 24, 2005

BOULDER, Colo., Jan. 23 - Since 1996, the Sacred Heart of Mary Roman Catholic Church has been holding private funeral ceremonies for aborted fetuses, interring the cremated remains in the churchyard near a monument to the souls of lost infants. Many members of the parish knew of the practice, but the broader world, including the abortion clinic that was the source of the remains and the women whose fetuses had been aborted, apparently did not.

On Sunday, the veil was lifted. The press was invited. Photographers crowded around as the ashes of 300 to 500 fetuses were buried with a hand trowel. A church bell tolled in the distance.

Sunday's ceremony was held just a day after the 32nd anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, although organizers said that was mere coincidence. But by going public, the organizers clearly raised the prospect of forcing another line of debate over abortion.

<snip)


I think these people are insane and ghoulish. Truly depraved.

[beam me up scottie]

1. What do they do with used condoms?

nt

[htuttle]

2. I wonder if they baptized the ashes first?

The Mormons would.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. How could the clinic not know that the remains were being taken?

but the broader world, including the abortion clinic that was the source of the remains and the women whose fetuses had been aborted, apparently did not.

[lupita]

5. That is what I was wondering.... n/t

[KDLarsen]

21. Don't Ask, Don't Tell?

.. I dont know, perhaps the clinic just liked the fact, that the church would deal with it free of charge, that they decided not to ask what happened to the fetuses.

[GiovanniC]

25. There Was an Inside Guy

He worked for the morgue or whatever you want to call it... and he was taking the fetuses and giving them to the church.

[goddess40]

31. maybe they are lying and are really burying wood ash

The clinic would have to dispose of matter in a controlled and regulated manner wouldn't they?

[jmowreader]

33. What I've been told...

is that this is the path the church takes to get these ashes:

1. Woman goes to abortion clinic, has abortion. It doesn't matter why at this point--maybe the fetus went septic and had to be aborted, maybe it's a rapist's baby, whatever.

2. Abortion clinic now has some biohazardous material to deal with. It puts said material into a collection container and puts it in the freezer. At the end of the day, the containers are boxed up and hauled to a disposal site, which in this case is a mortuary with a crematory.

3. The mortuary runs the collection containers through the crematory and scrapes the ashes into a box.

4. Somehow or another, said box falls into the hands of a Catholic church, which saves it until the anniversary of Roe v. Wade then holds a "funeral service."

Something tells me this clinic will be seeking the services of a different mortuary.

[Rockerdem]

4. I thought that cremation was a no-no

??

[lupita]

6. Catholics allow cremation now. n/t

[aikido15]

7. I agree, depraved and ...

:puke: they make me SICK!

[Kerrytravelers]

8. And the fact that they're including miscarriages is dishonest.

Since when are miscarriages abortions?

And how did they know that some these aborted fetuses weren't already fetuses that were dying? I have a neighbor whose baby was dying inside her. There was nothing to be done to help it, so the family and doctors decided to have a abortion for the betterment of all involved. (That's all the medical details I know.) I can't imagine her knowing that her baby was being treated as by these "mourners" as some unwanted travesty.

This is so unbeleivable. And I bet a vast majority of these "mourners" would be opposed to sensible sex education. What is it with these people. Those of us on the pro-choice side would love to see abortion rare- so lets have sensible sex education, a higher level of education and a stronger economy and by golly, rare abortion is far more likely.

Isn't it funny, three things the Repugs are against: sensible sex education, a strong economy for the poor and middle class and a higher standard of education in the public schools would be a tremendous help in making abortion rare.

My God, these people really are stupid.

[Warpy]

10. Miscarriages are properly termed spontaneous abortions

and what is done in a clinic is called a therapeutic abortion.

I think this is beyond weird, too, but if it makes the fetus fetishists feel better, who cares? Maybe it'll keep them occupied and they'll forget to picket.

It would have been nice if they'd asked permission, though. They've left themselves open to a charge of improper disposal of medical waste.

(I'm also thinking that they were also sobbing over other incinerated waste like gauze, gloves, and syringes)

[Kerrytravelers]

17. What I meant by my post is that by including miscarriages

is that were not a decision made by the woman, but an act of nature. When I first read the article, I instantly thought of how I would feel if I miscarried and these people had taken the remains and put them in some anti-abortion disgrace. They are using the remains of my pain for their benefit, just to increase the number of "bodies" to bolster their mission.

This whole debacle is just disgraceful. Instead of putting on such deplorable acts, why aren't these people out there fighting for a higher level of education in the public schools, for sensible sex education and for a strong economy for the middle class and the poor. Those three factos would decrease the number of abortions. Just compare the % under Clinton and *. Under Clinton, the abortion rate fell by 17%. Under the "pro-life (hahaha) *, abortions have increased by 24%.

I get so angry when I read about nonsense like this! :grr: :spank: :wtf: :mad: :nuke:

(see how mad I am!)


P.S. I had not heard the term theraputic abortion before. Thanks for helping me learn something new everyday. There. Now I end on a happy note. :bounce:

[Occulus]

18. I don't have so big a problem with miscarriages

and I honestly don't have a problem with their burying of the aborted fetuses- hey you wanna make yourselves look ghoulish and macabre in the practice of your faith, go right ahead; just expect people to be revulsed by it occasionally.

But you have to obtain consent, ya dipshits. Go sit in the corner. NOW.

That last being directed toward the people who did this.

[LiberalFighter]

35. That's right... where is the consent of these women AND AND AND

How do they know that all of these women were Catholics?

[BrklynLiberal]

9. It is like they keep some sort of depraved score card of how many souls

they can "save", and it does not matter at all where they come from.
It can be from aborted fetuses, tragedy-ridden populations who need help that will convert for food, tortured souls who will confess to sins for escape from torture...any "soul"s fair game and can be added to their "count". This is too disgusting for words.

[diamond14]

11. some BIG lawsuits will be coming to all collaborators in these crimes

the mortuary, the Catholic Church, and all the parishioners who collaborated in these crimes....

absconding with someone's aborted fetus is similar to people who have had their 'genes' stolen for medical research, or their 'body parts' removed to be used for someone or something that they don't approve of....or donor body parts that become abused and stolen....or the g.w.bush* FUNERALGATE scandals....

these people will pay a BIG price for their sick, hidden collaborative crimes....

[moobu2]

12. What a sickening publicity stunt, they should be charged with a crime...

Like they really care about the fetuses one way or another except what publicity they can squeeze from them....disgusting!

[diamond14]

13. bet the mortician shoved a bunch of other 'medical waste' into the

furnace....what a scam...gets rid of a LOT of medical waste, and dupes the radical right-wing nut-case Catholics into believing it's all some combo of fetus material (miscarriages, abortions, D & C's, cancer tissues, nasal surgical crap, organ replacements, amputated legs, etc.)....the mortician probably gets paid by the pound of ash...and who would know?

all this violates requirements for MEDICAL WASTE under the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency...Solid Waste Disposal LAWS (also known as RCRA...Resource Conservation and Recovery Act)....

there's going to be a LOT OF LEGAL trouble from this whole mess....

[DBoon]

14. And what about the civilians murdered in Iraq?

Will there be a service for them?

[Kerrytravelers]

16. * and Dick have been to 0 funerals.

We can't even see the flag draped coffins.

Funerals are out of the question for these warmongers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. I am a lapsed Catholic

but I do remember being taught that cremation was wrong. So has the church changed its policy on this or are these Catholics breaking a rule to make a point?

[Erika]

19. My guess is the Catholic Church wishes to deflect

big time from their own moral charges. And they're playing it big time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Oh I am sure they are playing it

regardless of what church law says.

[AngryOldDem]

22. Canon Law has changed on this

Catechism of the Catholic Church 2301 states the following, after discussing autopsies and organ donation: "The Church permits cremation, provided that it does not demonstrate a denial of faith in the resurrection of the body." The cite is Codex Iuris Canonici 1176 3.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Thanks for the info n/t

[LiberalFighter]

36. Is that only for those of the faith?

I would think it would be considering that they need to know if the women had faith in the resurection of the body.

[Dorian Gray]

26. The Church currently allows cremation.

Personally, I have little problem with the service, itself. They believe that a life was loss, and they are memorializing that life. It's what they believe. (And, no... the Catholic Church can not "baptize the dead.") It is not about salvation, but about acknowledging the life of the unborn child. (Because the church believes that the aborted fetus was a living child.)

Having said all that, however, I also fully understand why the parents of the aborted fetus might feel betrayed and abused. I understand their anger. I understand how this may aggravate their pain, also.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. This is very disrespectful to the parents

I would imagine most of them did not make the decision to abort lightly.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

38. If a fetus is a living child,

why do they wait until after he's born to baptise him? I mean, if they're so gung-ho about saving souls, shouldn't they perform some sort of ceremony while the mother is pregnant?

[MHalblaub]

20. This is a freak show!

A few years ago the Catholic Church didn't bury babies at their holly grave yards that weren't baptized alive even though they had two Catholic parents.

[arwalden]

23. Their Fetus-Fetish Shows More Concern For An Aborted Fetus...

than for the welfare of starving families and health of communities. If I live to be 150 years old, I'll never understand why some people are more concerned with sperms and zygotes than they are with preventing the spread of disease, and preventing unwanted pregnancies to destitute, starving parents who live in abject poverty and squalor. They can't feed, house or clothe themselves... yet the church is more concerned with aborted fetuses and condoms.

What the FUCK is WRONG with these people?!

[EFerrari]

24. The Catholic Church is probably the oldest multinational on earth

Is there another older institution with as long a history of corruption?

And now they're deflecting attention from their own criminal abuse of children by joining the anti-abortion contingent.

I come from a Catholic family, but this is no longer my church.

[mitchum]

34. No "probably" about it...

they wrote the book (illuminated or not) on corruption

[frankly_fedup2]

30. HYPOCRISY! How many missed abortions, chosen abortions . . .

to give other infants more room in the mothers womb do they cremate from the fertility clinics? Huh? What about all the miscarriages on average these women have, do they cremate? What about the stillborn infants from the hospitals, do they include these in their cremations?

It's okay for those attempting to have children go to fertility clinics and have up to 10 fertilized eggs inserted at one time (because it is such an expensive procedure), and then these women will lose most of them in what is considered a "missed abortion," or they will all attach to the mother's uterine wall. This is where you hear of those women having liters of 6, 7, and 8.

These women know they may have to abort some of the fetuses in order to give the more viable ones a better chance of birth. They do this all the time. However, there are those that refuse to abort when they have like 8 attach to their uterine wall. They do not stand by their word because they cannot pick and choose which will be born and which will not. Of course, the physicians do this; however, these mothers are the ones that are the most irresponsible. By not standing by their word and aborting the less viable fetuses; thereby endangering the chances of all of them. That is why when a woman has a litter of babies, they are premature, some die shortly after birth, some are still born, and most end up having some kind of birth anomaly.

Why is it we never hear the Christians discuss this? There are a lot of abortions going on at the fertility clinics along with keeping fertilized eggs on ice. If the parents decide they do not want to have anymore children, what do they do with those fertilized eggs??? The right claims that life begins at the time of conception. Then why aren't they raising holy Hell on fertility clinics.

I get sooooooooooooooooooo tired of this argument.

[beam me up scottie]

32. Hey Girl,

:hi:
Sorry I haven't got to pm you yet, but I gotta tell ya, I love the way you put things!
"when a woman has a litter of babies"
Priceless!
:evilgrin:
No offense to the mothers in DU who have had multiple births....you are braver by far than I.

[drthais]

37. THIS is beyond sick...

and I am sure against the law
these fetuses are not public property!
they are the domain of the mother!!!!!!
how CAN these freaks take these aborted fetuses
and do with them what they will???
isn't there some kind of law against this?

and besides
WHAT THE HELL BUSINESS IS IT OF THEIRS ANYWAY?
I am SO sick of this sh*t

[lovuian]

39. Hopefully that includes the Babies buried forbidden on Sacred soil

thats the graveyards at the Church Cemetaries unkept and in the back

the Church Doctine that children not baptized went to purgatory

and could not be buried on Sacred Ground

Amazing how the Church changes its position!!!