Federal Judge Stops Execution of Michael Ross

[Throckmorton]

Just out:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=1&u=/ap/20050124/ap_on_re_us/connecticut_execution

Michael Ross would have been the first person murdered by the State of Connecticut in 44 years.

[Name removed]

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[agitpropagent9]

2. and yet it only took him

3 years to rape and murder eight people whose lives were snuffed out and whose families' lives were destroyed.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

10. Killing is always wrong

some of us are REAL Christians and actually read the Bible.

[foreigncorrespondent]

38. Yes...

...but muder doesn't equate murder.

[Mandate My Ass]

3. Ah, here come the bloodthirsty hordes

to demand the state death ritual be carried out so that we can all sleep better knowing this insane man has been snuffed.


After all, all those executions carried out before his crime spree sure persuaded him not to kill anybody....:hurts:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

5. And don't forget:

If you don't want executions, then you LOVE CRIMINALS and WANT TO SET THEM ALL FREE!!!!! </freeper>

[4_Legs_Good]

8. I guess they're bored because they control the country

so now they have to come here to harass us.

*sigh*

We got an uber-rare execution in California - that should make them happy.

Woo hooo!!! No more crime now! :eyes:

david

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

12. By the way, it looks like the world record WAS broken! Woo hoo! (nt)

[Mandate My Ass]

13. LOL

The screen name was a nice touch, dontcha think?

[4_Legs_Good]

15. Yeah, it was hilarious!

Fooled us for all of 0.02 seconds.

/sigh

Oh well. They're out in force today!

david

[agitpropagent9]

6. can you provide any evidence of insanity?

obviously the supreme court didn't find any:

" Last week, the state Supreme Court had ruled that the public defenders have no "meaningful evidence" of Ross' incompetence."

[Mandate My Ass]

7. The Supremes aren't psychiatrists any more than I am

Nor are they gods, though they do like to play them from time to time.

Mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached. -- Antonin Scalia

[w4rma]

22. Did Scalia really say that?

Innocence is not a reason to refuse the death penalty if all the legal hoops were jumped through?

[Mandate My Ass]

32. Yup

I believe he also said it's OK for defense attorneys to sleep or be drunk during the guilt phase of a capital trial too. Nothin's perfect.

He's a man of God, you know.

[elsur]

45. He did say that in his opinion and on the face ...

.. of things it sounds horribly worded but I think it's used unjustly by people who argue against the death penalty.

The case was Herrera vs. Collins. Herrera was convicted of the murder of a police officer in 1982 and plead guilty to the murder of another police officer six months later. After 10 years of appeals, he was granted a federal habeus corpus proceeding in which he claimed that the 8th and the 14th amendments prohibited him from being executed baecause he was "actually innocent".

Scalia wasn't speaking to any state of guilt or innocence for Herrera in this case.

"Herrera does not seek relief from a procedural error so that he may bring an independent constitutional claim challenging his conviction or sentence, but rather argues that he is entitled to habeas relief because new evidence shows that his conviction is factually incorrect. To allow a federal court to grant him typical habeas relief - a conditional order releasing him unless the State elects to retry him or vacating his death sentence - would in effect require a new trial 10 years after the first trial, not because of any constitutional violation at the first trial, but simply because of a belief that, in light of his newfound evidence, a jury might find him not guilty at a second trial. It is far from clear that this would produce a more reliable determination of guilt or innocence, since the passage of time only diminishes the reliability of criminal adjudications."

For the record, Herrera produced affadavits saying that his since-dead brother committed the murders.

You can look up the rest and read it if you're so inclined ...

[Wisc Badger]

9. What should be done then????

At the risk of offending, should he be given a medal and a thank you for his actions????

[Mandate My Ass]

11. Yes

That would be nice. Oh and flowers too. :-)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. STRAW MAN

The most reasonable alternative to death penalty is LWOP and you KNOW it. But nooooo, can't pass a chance to bash DP opponents, now, can we?

[gratuitous]

20. Is that the only alternative you can think of?

Execution or flowers? Nothing else? My goodness, I hope you're not in charge of anything important. Your limited mindset would be a serious detriment to good management.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. See posts 16, 19, and 26. (nt)

[bvar22]

25. Why not?

Bremmer got one.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. I like to call them "punishists"

You know the type: defenders of the "three strikes" abomination, like to treat 19yos that bang 17yos as if they were serial child rapists, etc.

A personality disorder, disgracefully socially acceptable, which enables it to wreak much havoc in society.

[Mandate My Ass]

26. They think the justice system exists

merely to alleviate their sense of outrage. If someone doesn't get equally puffed up with righteous indignation and demand someone's head on the platter, that means they love criminals. Although, I admit this mindset is heartily encouraged by sleazy politicians and the corporate media, but still...

The state has no business killing its citizens. Period.

[Orsino]

44. The justice system *does* exist, in part, to alleviate outrage.

It's even there to provide some of that awful term "closure." These functions, if applied fairly and justly, obviate the need for the lynch mob, and for vigilante justice. This is necessary for civil order.

I don't see, though, why the punishment fetishists aren't happy with LWOP sentencing. Doesn't a life sentence in America's modern penal system equate to a kind of torture? Why would a quick and relatively painless death satisfy the mob's blood-thirst more than would (nearly) lifelong discipline, isolation and/or rape and beatings?

The victims and their families, I can understand. If there is a significant possibility that a violent offender might escape and seek them out, yeah, I can imagine that an execution eases some of their trauma.

I agree, though, that even that is not reason enough to execute. Killing should be done only in self-defense or in defense of others, and incarcerated felons are not the sort of threat that justifies the death penalty.

If I were to support some sort of death penalty, it wouldn't be administered by a nation with America's dismal record of convicting the innocent.

[arwalden]

14. Good News... Glad To Hear It...

You can't un-execute someone who was wrongly put to death. It's not applied fairly between various ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds. Blacks, Hispanics, and the poor are more likely to receive a death penalty than Whites do for similar crimes.

And even for those who are truly guilty, self-confessed, caught-in-the-act, evidence beyond compare guilty... their punishment ENDS at death. They don't care any longer, because they are DEAD. You can't punish a corpse. The death penalty is nothing more than barbaric revenge from the living... it has nothing to do with actual "punishment".

[rockedthevoteinMA]

17. Doesn't it actually end up costing more in the long run to execute

someone, then to imprison them for life? (Learned in school - don't know how correct it is)

[Bill McBlueState]

18. info on costs of the death penalty

Yes, it costs more to execute someone:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7#From%20DPIC

[Name removed]

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[rockedthevoteinMA]

24. Do some reading up on the death penalty

There is a huge amount of people convicted of crimes who are INNOCENT. There's a specific program at a school in Illinois specifically dedicated to researching these death penalty cases. It's mind boggling.

And no - it isn't because we "artificially inflate the price." It's because of all the lawsuits that are filed, many other costs as well.

[Name removed]

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[rockedthevoteinMA]

30. Probably when dumbya was gov. of texas...

[Bill McBlueState]

33. argh!

Dang it, a reply to my post got deleted and I didn't even get to see it. Sucks to step away for a bit.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

34. The usual punishist troll drivel. You didn't miss much. (nt)

[rockedthevoteinMA]

35. LOL they're all over the place today. n/t

[wicket]

40. the trolls are out in droves today

You didn't miss anything! :D

[slackmaster]

23. Answer is not clear

Probably depends on how long they live and how many years of appeals a convict can enjoy while on Death Row. It costs something like $100K per year to keep someone in prison.

Here in California it's probably a wash because of the extremely long appeals process - 20 years to exhaust every possibility. Court time costs money of course, but even non-Death Row inmates have appeals and hearings as they try to shorten their sentences, get convictions overturned, sue the state for making them wear embarrassing clothing, etc.

Here in Cali it's pointless to even have the DP. Condemned prisoners are more likely to die of natural causes or to be murdered than to be executed.

[arwalden]

28. I've heard that repeated often too...

... in response to the RW "logic" that asserts that the state "saves" money by executing since you don't have to feed and clothe corpses.

[mutus_frutex]

29. Exactly...

Since death is irreversible and no judgment is 100% sure, capital punishment should never be applied.

And this coming from a moral relativist atheist.

[Nye Bevan]

36. I admit I am a capital punishment hypocrite....

I do agree with many of the arguments against capital punishment. But I can't help feeling a glimmer of satisfaction when scum like Ross meet their end on a gurney. Just reading the names of his victims makes me want this execution to go ahead:-

Dzung Ngoc Tu, 25, a Cornell University student, killed May 12, 1981
Paula Perrera, 16, of Wallkill, N.Y., killed March, 1982
Tammy Williams, 17, of Brooklyn, killed Jan. 5, 1982
Debra Smith Taylor, 23, of Griswold, killed June 15, 1982
Robin Stavinksy, 19, of Norwich, killed November, 1983
April Brunias, 14, of Griswold, killed April 22, 1984
Leslie Shelley, 14, of Griswold, killed April 22, 1984
Wendy Baribeault, 17, of Lisbon, killed June 13, 1984

[NewYorkerfromMass]

37. It's a good thing justice isn't based on how you personally feel

in that case.

[Nye Bevan]

39. I agree with you.

I am not particularly proud of my feelings towards this man. But I can't help it.

[Bono71]

41. I am exactly like you...I wouldn't shed a tear for this monster. n/t

[mitchum]

42. Oh well, tomorrow's another day

[Historic NY]

43. F..... him he is as sane as you & me........in fact he killed a girl....

that lived nearby me here in NY. He has been playing the system for almost 20yrs. The parents of girl from Montgomery NY haven't had a moments peace since this slime still breaths.

Don't be harsh I believe in the DP, why because in my line of work, I find some people more willing to coddle a serial killer than just throw the switch on them. I speak from actual experience for another creep, had they listened originally to me Nathaniel White wouldn't have had the chance to kill 8 girls & women.

[Redstone]

46. Just remember this...

Two of the girls he killed (on the same night) were 14 and 15 years old.

He tied up the 14-year-old in his car, and she got to listen to him murder her friend, while waiting for him to murder her.

Just remember this.

Redstone

[Bill McBlueState]

47. so?

If Ross's life is spared, there will be one less death. Unless you like death, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

[Redstone]

48. Need I repeat myself?

There's only ONE way to make sure he never does that again.

A fourteen-year-old girl and a fifteen-year-old girl. What if one of them was your daughter?

Redstone

[Bill McBlueState]

49. life in prison?

That would work, and it doesn't require additional blood be spilled.

[Runcible Spoon]

54. so will killing him bring them back?

I've known people who have thirsted for blood vengeance only to reflect later on life, realizing that trying to buy back their loved ones with the blood of the guilty only leaves them with more emotional baggage. Very few live the rest of their lives feeling justice had been done, since there is no such thing buying back life.

[Stuckinthebush]

51. Good thing he is in prison so he can't do it again

Murdering him is not necessary.

Personally, a very long life with no chance of ever tasting freedom sounds like a hell of a punishment. Death is too easy for this bastard.

[spartan61]

50. Michael Ross is from the same small town in CT

where I live. I knew one of the girls he murdered and hid her body. I saw what Michael Ross' crime did to Tammy's family. Let me tell you, it was unbelievably heart wrenching. Tammy is only ONE of his victims and there were many, although he was only convicted of 8 murders. There are still many unsolved murders in the Cornell University area that happened while Michael was attending college there and he is believed to be the main suspect. This case has been going on for years and years. Michael Ross has had appeal after appeal...He had a fair trial, was convicted, and received the death sentence. Did his victims have the same opportunity...NO!!! Why are there so many bleeding hearts for him? Remember, he is not the victim, he is the murderer. It's time to carry out the death sentence that Ross was given...even Ross wants the sentence to be carried out. The families of these dead girls need closure. If Connecticut doesn't have the stomach for capital punishment, then take it off the books!!

[Name removed]

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[Rush1184]

53. While we're at it, why don't we just charge the family for the bullet...

/scarcasm

[Runcible Spoon]

55. they will not get closure.

many families end up burdened with extra guilt and complex emotional baggage after calling for the death of the killers who robbed them of their loved ones. If you are Christian, then you will this monster will live out the rest of his miserable life in prison, where child-killers are not received kindly, and then will (depending on belief system) suffer in eternal damnation. If you are atheist, you will know again that he will be left to the mercy of the other prisoners and that his own conscience will torture him; to kill him early would just bring him peace sooner. Either way, beliefs or not, killing by the state is ethically and morally wrong.

[jfs1000]

56. Not bleeding heart

I will shed no tear for ross. But I am against his execution on moral grounds. I do not believe in the taking of another human life, no matter what the case PERIOD. I am not even torn by this, I am not for his execution. Ross is neutralized and is in prison. Society is safe. He will never kill again. The justice system is not set up for retribution of the victims' family. That is not their right.

And the "what if it was your family memeber" arguement: I would want to kill the man, which is exactly why the death penalty should be abolished. It is not the right of the victims family to seek revenge on the crimminal. The state administers justice, this is vigilante justice. We don't rape the rapist, steal from the burgular, or batter the abuser. We shouldn't murder the murderer. It is a moral and ehtical problem I have with the death penalty. I can not support state sponsored homicide.

So in effect, I am against Ross' execution, but you won't see me out there protesting or upset if he is killed. I have moral grounds against killing him, but I am not going to be sad if when he is killed.

In effect, I want him to die, but I am against killing him. A paradox indeed.