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sally343434 Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:06 AM
Original message
Mass suicide bid at Guantanamo
Mass suicide bid at Guantanamo

By Robert Verkaik and Terri Judd
25 January 2005

Twenty-three inmates at the US detention facility in Guantanamo Bay staged a mass suicide attempt in 2003 by trying to hang or strangle themselves.

US military confirmation of the mass suicides came yesterday as the families of four Britons detained without charge for three years by the US authorities waited for their loved ones to arrive home from the prison on Cuba. The four will be arrested by anti-terrorist police officers as soon as they are released from American custody.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=604291
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:13 AM
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Miss Authoritiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Assuming this is true...
They are fed well, able to take showers and receive state of the art medical care.

Assuming this is true, then the Gitmo detainees currently have a better quality of life (excluding, you know, the illegal imprisonment thing) than most of Baghdad's residents.

Scriptoids
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. re: Assuming this is true...
They are fed well, able to take showers and receive state of the art medical care.

Assuming this is true, then the Gitmo detainees currently have a better quality of life (excluding, you know, the illegal imprisonment thing) than most of Baghdad's residents.
Assuming this is true, they're being treated better than the average American below the poverty line. Hell, this is better than a lot of us in the HMO-dependent lower middle class get. Send 'em home and send me to Gitmo. I could use the three squares a day.
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. So it's ok to imprison people for life without a trial
as long as you keep them well fed? Force-feeding if necessary, I suppose...
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fleabert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. what snopes has to say about this old letter from Mr. Daniels
This is hardly LBN, but here goes

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/charlie2.asp

>snip<
When Charlie Daniels wrote his essay, the detainees were incarcerated at Camp X-Ray, a temporary holding facility near Guantanamo Bay. Inmates were kept in tin-roofed 8x8 cells that resembled dog runs: chain link fencing on a concrete base, open on the sides to the elements. They slept on foam pads placed on concrete floors in cells containing chemical toilets or buckets. At least every two days prisoners would be taken from their cells for all of 15 minutes of exercise.

The detainees have since been moved to nearby Camp Delta, a permanent detention center erected for this purpose. The 8x6.66 cells have beds and walls and windows, flush toilets and running water, but can still be described as austere. Yet it's hard to imagine how the prisoners could be housed in anything less severe. These are very dangerous people, and they want to harm whichever Americans they can get their hands on.

>snip<

my two cents: american convicts hurl all types of excrement and body fluids at their captors too, lets not fool ourselves and think that we are beyond reproach in our behaviors either. And from what I remember from reading the freeper sites, there are quite a few americans who would love to get hold of any of these detainees and kill them as well. Which is why the only response to our prisoners is to give them the upmost kindness, at a distance if necessary, but kindness. My mother taught me a good lesson when I was in HS and fighting with some girls, she asked me why they were so worthy of my energy, it takes more effort to hate than it does to love...it resonates today.

I say, turn the other cheek, while still protecting your ass. (no pun intended)
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Sounds like Charlie wouldn't mind expanding political prisons to:
"the loudmouthed lawyers and left wing media who would sap the strength from the American public by making us believe that we're losing the war or doing something wrong in fighting it."

Since he says Americans are at war with them too.

He would probably be OK with most people on this site being kept in jail indefinitely as well. The devil went down to Georgia, looking to make a deal. It sounds like he got one.
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ze_dscherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. So, you really trust chain mails from the net?
Wouldn't you like to do a deal with some Nigerians that just sent me a business letter?

I trust the reports and complaints by the Red Cross and other sources more than some right wing propaganda bullshit.


Lame try. Buh bye!
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Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. That mail is 3 years old.....plus I'd throw my shit at guards if I were...
illegally and falsely imprisoned.

That's not to say that there aren't a lot of very dangerous and evil men in Guantanamo Bay, but there are also a few who probably don't deserve to be there. None of them deserve to be held without trial for years on end.

The last of the British detainess at GB are being flown home today - if the previous released prisoners are anything to go by, they won't be charged with anything when they get back to the UK.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 04:26 AM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 05:00 AM
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MHalblaub Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Would LOL about this email but
what about this statements:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

http://wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States_of_America

Facts:
War in Afghanistan is declared over.
US justice rules about foreign companies dealing with Iran.

I don't want to hear the bullshit about unlawful warriors or something like that. How would Wallew feel imprisoned for the same things in China. What, he is innocent! Does that upset anyone because he is dangerous.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 06:16 AM
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16. Deleted message
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fleabert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. we should be the example to the rest of the world...THREE YEARS
we made the families wait, without charging or trying these people. They might be guilty, and if so they should be punished...but we certainly did nothing to further that cause.

>snip<
The four Britons will be taken to Paddington Green police station in west London where they will be questioned under Britain's anti-terrorism laws.

>snip<

Under the Terrorism Act 2000 the Metropolitan police can hold the men for up to 14 days without charge but must continuously review the terms of their detention.

>snip<

Why are the masses not disgusted by this? what if it was your brother...your father...your husband? Held for three years with no proof, no trial, no lawyer, nothing.

we are dispicable.
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Miss Authoritiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. Other news accounts note that the US military denied this at first.
<i>The US Southern Command yesterday admitted that, between 18 and 26 August 2003, the detainees tried to hang or strangle themselves with pieces of clothing and other items in their cells. However they played down the incidents, saying that one - on 22 August - was "a coordinated effort to disrupt camp operations and challenge a new group of security guards from the just-completed unit rotation".</i>

Startling on several counts. Of course, first the military denied it See, for example, the story as it appears in The Telegraph (link):

The suicide attempts came to light after they were mentioned casually during a camp visit earlier this month by three US journalists, but officials issued an immediate denial. However, under media pressure the US Southern Command, which has authority over Camp Delta, confirmed the reports.

Second, the idea that the coordinated suicide attempts were prank-like attempts to disrupt camp operations is really offensive. It reminds me of Rush Limbaugh's fraternity prank take on the Abu Ghraib torture.



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frogbison Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. Ooh, baby, it's a wild world!
It's hard to get by.




each new headline just blows me away.
All I can do is work for change

or smother under the guilt
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. Report from the International Red Cross on the "actual conditions":
Edited on Tue Jan-25-05 02:00 AM by Carolab
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30910FF3A5A0C738FDDA80994DC404482

Dated 11/30/04

(Shut up, Charlie Daniels.)


RED CROSS FINDS DETAINEE ABUSE IN GUANTÁNAMO

By NEIL A. LEWIS (NYT) 2078 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 1 , Column 6

Correction Appended

ABSTRACT - International Committee of Red Cross charges in confidential reports to United States government that American military has intentionally used psychological and sometimes physical coercion 'tantamount to torture' on prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba; report follows monthlong visit to Guantanamo by Red Cross inspection team last June; it claims some doctors and other medical workers at Guantanamo participated in planning for interrogations, calling this 'flagrant violation of medical ethics'; Bush administration and military officials sharply reject report's charges; Red Cross has been conducting visits to Guantanamo since Jan 2002; this is first time it has asserted in such strong terms that treatment of detainees, both physical and psychological, amounts to torture; report says methods used on prisoners in latest visit are 'more refined and repressive' than those seen on previous visits; cites as examples 'humiliating acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, use of forced positions'; conclusions by inspection team, especially findings involving alleged complicity in mistreatment by medical professionals, have provoked stormy debate within Red Cross committee, some of whom say they should make their concerns public or at least aggressively confront Bush administration; photos (L)


Correction: December 1, 2004, Wednesday

A front-page article yesterday citing a confidential report in which the International Committee of the Red Cross accused the American military of using psychological and sometimes physical coercion on prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, misstated the rank of Jay W. Hood, commander of the detention facility there. He is a brigadier general, not a general.


******************
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/30/politics/30gitmo.html

Red Cross Finds Detainee Abuse in Guantánamo
By NEIL A. LEWIS

Published: November 30, 2004


WASHINGTON, Nov. 29 - The International Committee of the Red Cross has charged in confidential reports to the United States government that the American military has intentionally used psychological and sometimes physical coercion "tantamount to torture" on prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

The finding that the handling of prisoners detained and interrogated at Guantánamo amounted to torture came after a visit by a Red Cross inspection team that spent most of last June in Guantánamo.

The team of humanitarian workers, which included experienced medical personnel, also asserted that some doctors and other medical workers at Guantánamo were participating in planning for interrogations, in what the report called "a flagrant violation of medical ethics."

Doctors and medical personnel conveyed information about prisoners' mental health and vulnerabilities to interrogators, the report said, sometimes directly, but usually through a group called the Behavioral Science Consultation Team, or B.S.C.T. The team, known informally as Biscuit, is composed of psychologists and psychological workers who advise the interrogators, the report said.

The United States government, which received the report in July, sharply rejected its charges, administration and military officials said.

The report was distributed to lawyers at the White House, Pentagon and State Department and to the commander of the detention facility at Guantánamo, Gen. Jay W. Hood. The New York Times recently obtained a memorandum, based on the report, that quotes from it in detail and lists its major findings.

It was the first time that the Red Cross, which has been conducting visits to Guantánamo since January 2002, asserted in such strong terms that the treatment of detainees, both physical and psychological, amounted to torture. The report said that another confidential report in January 2003, which has never been disclosed, raised questions of whether "psychological torture" was taking place.

The Red Cross said publicly 13 months ago that the system of keeping detainees indefinitely without allowing them to know their fates was unacceptable and would lead to mental health problems.

The report of the June visit said investigators had found a system devised to break the will of the prisoners at Guantánamo, who now number about 550, and make them wholly dependent on their interrogators through "humiliating acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, use of forced positions." Investigators said that the methods used were increasingly "more refined and repressive" than learned about on previous visits.

"The construction of such a system, whose stated purpose is the production of intelligence, cannot be considered other than an intentional system of cruel, unusual and degrading treatment and a form of torture," the report said. It said that in addition to the exposure to loud and persistent noise and music and to prolonged cold, detainees were subjected to "some beatings." The report did not say how many of the detainees were subjected to such treatment.

Asked about the accusations in the report, a Pentagon spokesman provided a statement saying, "The United States operates a safe, humane and professional detention operation at Guantánamo that is providing valuable information in the war on terrorism."

It continued that personnel assigned to Guantánamo "go through extensive professional and sensitivity training to ensure they understand the procedures for protecting the rights and dignity of detainees."

The conclusions by the inspection team, especially the findings involving alleged complicity in mistreatment by medical professionals, have provoked a stormy debate within the Red Cross committee. Some officials have argued that it should make its concerns public or at least aggressively confront the Bush administration.

The International Committee of the Red Cross, which is based in Geneva and is separate from the American Red Cross, was founded in 1863 as an independent, neutral organization intended to provide humanitarian protection and assistance for victims of war.


Angel Franco/The New York Times
A cell and a meeting room at Camp Echo at Guantánamo, where lawyers can meet with detainees.


Its officials are able to visit prisoners at Guantánamo under the kind of arrangement the committee has made with governments for decades. In exchange for exclusive access to the prison camp and meetings with detainees, the committee has agreed to keep its findings confidential. The findings are shared only with the government that is detaining people.

Advertisement


Beatricé Mégevand-Roggo, a senior Red Cross official, said in an interview that she could not say anything about information relayed to the United States government because "we do not comment in any way on the substance of the reports we submit to the authorities."

Ms. Mégevand-Roggo, the committee's delegate-general for Europe and the Americas, acknowledged that the issue of confidentiality was a chronic and vexing one for the organization. "Many people do not understand why we have these bilateral agreements about confidentiality," she said. "People are led to believe that we are a fig leaf or worse, that we are complicit with the detaining authorities."

She added, "It's a daily dilemma for us to put in the balance the positive effects our visits have for detainees against the confidentiality."

Antonella Notari, a veteran Red Cross official and spokeswoman, said that the organization frequently complained to the Pentagon and other arms of the American government when government officials cite the Red Cross visits to suggest that there is no abuse at Guantánamo. Most statements from the Pentagon in response to queries about mistreatment at Guantánamo do, in fact, include mention of the visits.

In a recent interview with reporters, General Hood, the commander of the detention and interrogation facility at Guantánamo, also cited the committee's visits in response to questions about treatment of detainees. "We take everything the Red Cross gives us and study it very carefully to look for ways to do our job better," he said in his Guantánamo headquarters, adding that he agrees "with some things and not others."

"I'm satisfied that the detainees here have not been abused, they've not been mistreated, they've not been tortured in any way," he said.

Scott Horton, a New York lawyer, who is familiar with some of the Red Cross's views, said the issue of medical ethics at Guantánamo had produced "a tremendous controversy in the committee." He said that some Red Cross officials believed it was important to maintain confidentiality while others believed the United States government was misrepresenting the inspections and using them to counter criticisms.

Mr. Horton, who heads the human rights committee of the Bar Association of the City of New York, said the Red Cross committee was considering whether to bring more senior officials to Washington and whether to make public its criticisms.

The report from the June visit said the Red Cross team found a far greater incidence of mental illness produced by stress than did American medical authorities, much of it caused by prolonged solitary confinement. It said the medical files of detainees were "literally open" to interrogators.

The report said the Biscuit team met regularly with the medical staff to discuss the medical situations of detainees. At other times, interrogators sometimes went directly to members of the medical staff to learn about detainees' conditions, it said.

The report said that such "apparent integration of access to medical care within the system of coercion" meant that inmates were not cooperating with doctors. Inmates learn from their interrogators that they have knowledge of their medical histories and the result is that the prisoners no longer trust the doctors.

Asked for a response, the Pentagon issued a statement saying, "The allegation that detainee medical files were used to harm detainees is false." The statement said that the detainees were "enemy combatants who were fighting against U.S. and coalition forces."

"It's important to understand that when enemy combatants were first detained on the battlefield, they did not have any medical records in their possession," the statement continued. "The detainees had a wide range of pre-existing health issues including battlefield injuries."


Angel Franco/The New York Times
A detainee who cooperates with interrogators and follows rules is given white clothing to wear.


The Pentagon also said the medical care given detainees was first-rate. Although the Red Cross criticized the lack of confidentiality, it agreed in the report that the medical care was of high quality.

Leonard S. Rubenstein, the executive director of Physicians for Human Rights, was asked to comment on the account of the Red Cross report, and said, "The use of medical personnel to facilitate abusive interrogations places them in an untenable position and violates international ethical standards."

Mr. Rubenstein added, "We need to know more about these practices, including whether health professionals engaged in calibrating levels of pain inflicted on detainees."

The issue of whether torture at Guantánamo was condoned or encouraged has been a problem before for the Bush administration.

In February 2002, President Bush ordered that the prisoners at Guantánamo be treated "humanely and, to the extent appropriate with military necessity, in a manner consistent with" the Geneva Conventions. That statement masked a roiling legal discussion within the administration as government lawyers wrote a series of memorandums, many of which seemed to justify harsh and coercive treatment.

A month after Mr. Bush's public statement, a team of administration lawyers accepted a view first advocated by the Justice Department that the president had wide powers in authorizing coercive treatment of detainees. The legal team in a memorandum concluded that Mr. Bush was not bound by either the international Convention Against Torture or a federal antitorture statute because he had the authority to protect the nation from terrorism.

That document provides tightly constructed definitions of torture. For example, if an interrogator "knows that severe pain will result from his actions, if causing such harm is not his objective, he lacks the requisite specific intent even though the defendant did not act in good faith," it said. "Instead, a defendant is guilty of torture only if he acts with the express purpose of inflicting severe pain or suffering on a person within his control."

When some administration memorandums about coercive treatment or torture were disclosed, the White House said they were only advisory.

Last month, military guards, intelligence agents and others described in interviews with The Times a range of procedures that they said were highly abusive occurring over a long period, as well as rewards for prisoners who cooperated with interrogators. The people who worked at Camp Delta, the main prison facility, said that one regular procedure was making uncooperative prisoners strip to their underwear, having them sit in a chair while shackled hand and foot to a bolt in the floor, and forcing them to endure strobe lights and loud rock and rap music played through two close loudspeakers, while the air-conditioning was turned up to maximum levels.

Some accounts of techniques at Guantánamo have been easy to dismiss because they seemed so implausible. The most striking of the accusations, which have come mainly from a group of detainees released to their native Britain, has been that the military used prostitutes who made coarse comments and come-ons to taunt some prisoners who are Muslims.

But the Red Cross report hints strongly at an explanation of some of those accusations by stating that there were frequent complaints by prisoners in 2003 that some of the female interrogators baited their subjects with sexual overtures.

Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who commanded the detention and intelligence operation at Guantánamo until April, when he took over prison operations in Iraq, said in an interview early this year about general interrogation procedures that the female interrogators had proved to be among the most effective. General Miller's observation matches common wisdom among experienced intelligence officers that women may be effective as interrogators when seen by their subjects as mothers or sisters. Sexual taunting does not, however, comport with what is often referred to as the "mother-sister syndrome."

But the Red Cross report said that complaints about the practice of sexual taunting stopped in the last year. Guantánamo officials have acknowledged that they have improved their techniques and that some earlier methods they tried proved to be ineffective, raising the possibility that the sexual taunting was an experiment that was abandoned.






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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 06:23 AM
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17. duplicate topic
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