China has lost faith in the stability of the U.S. $ (AP - Davos Swtiz)

[cthrumatrix]

DAVOS, Switzerland (AP)--China has lost faith in the stability of the U.S.
dollar, and its first priority is to broaden the exchange rate for its currency
from the dollar to a more flexible basket of currencies, a top Chinese
economist said Wednesday at the World Economic Forum.

At a standing-room only session focusing on the world's fastest-growing
economy, Fan Gang, director of the National Economic Research Institute at the
China Reform Foundation, said the issue for China isn't whether to devalue the
yuan but "to limit it from the U.S. dollar."
But he stressed that the Chinese government is under no pressure to revalue
its currency.

China's exchange rate policies restrict the value of the yuan to a narrow band
around CNY8.28 pegged to $1. Critics argue that the yuan is undervalued, making
China's exports cheaper overseas and giving its manufacturers an unfair
advantage. Beijing has been under pressure from its trading partners,
especially the U.S., to relax controls on its currency.
"The U.S. dollar is no longer - in our opinion is no longer - (seen) as a
stable currency, and is devaluating all the time, and that's putting troubles
all the time," Fan said, speaking in English.

snip

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/business/10740504.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

I quickly copied this when it came across...it's big guys.

[Renew Deal]

1. I have heard many warnings about the crash.

The Chinese are using our "instability" as a tool in their arsenal to keep the value of their money down. They are doing what Bush does. They are manufacturing a crisis.

[spotbird]

6. here's a link

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/business/10740504.htm

[Renew Deal]

53. I have nominated

This is a good discussion.

[Up2Late]

101. More at this link too!!!

In General Discussion

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3010038>

but PLEASE don't lock one or the other!

[barb162]

120. they're not manufacturing the crisis. If they unpeg their currency

from the dollar, we are in BIG TROUBLE. But Bush, Greenspan did it

[spooked911]

2. That IS big and VERY BAD too. We're in for some very rough sailing ahead.

[The Zanti Regent]

93. But the Presidential Prayer Team will pray us out of this mess

Just watch when Jesus intervenes to save the dollar!

(SARCASM MODE NOW OFF!)

[ewagner]

3. Oh-oh...........

This is going to cause some trouble (spelled P-A-N-I-C ) in the markets tomorrow...maybe even overnight.....

[demgrrrll]

4. Oh damn. damn. I have had this waiting for the other shoe to drop

feeling for days. Sure hope this isn't the other shoe.

[ally_sc]

59. this is the beginning of

no money...hell i have had no money oops...my shoes are gone..ut oh...

[Politicub]

96. You may be right

There's a lot of Yuan out there. This may cause ripples in the currency markets.

[MissB]

5. Linkity link link? (nt)

[blm]

7. Of course. They OWN a big chunk of our debt that Bush keeps racking up.

Bush's family is thick as thieves with the Chinese industrialists and have been for over 30 years.

Bush supporters are going to understand one day that they bolstered a traitor.

[cthrumatrix]

8. I agree... this is huge.

[glitch]

15. Yes but will they acknowledge it? Unlikely. They never acknowledged

Reagan's treason.
Just keep burying it in your rotten psyches boys.

[Kolesar]

9. The Yuan is coupled to the dollar.Does this mean they will float the Yuan?

How can I quickly buy an index of Chinese - denominated securities or money?

[cthrumatrix]

12. they are going to a "basket of currencies"

[Kolesar]

19. It sounds like the Chinese Gov't will still try to control the value

But the dollar ought to sink vs. the Yuan ultimately. (?)

[VirginiaDem]

35. I guess the real value of the dollar to the yuan is sinking

like a rock but the pegged relationship would remain the same. China gains because they export more than import but ultimately they don't won't to be stuck using a worthless (because it's pegged to a worthless currency) domestic currency any more than they want to be stuck holding a worthless foreign currency in reserve.

[tsuki]

69. No, never float, but they might peg it to the Euro.

[kitty1]

108. U.S. dollar leverage one big reason for mideast control

The downward devaluation of the U.S. dollar has a huge impact of world oil supply and demand. This is one aspect of the Iraq war, and the surmounting problems with Iran that you never hear about. Iraq changed their petroleum currency of choice to euros from dollars just prior to the fall of Sadaam Hussein. Iran has recently switched to the Euro as well for oil sales. The depreciation of the dollar means less money for drilling. Countries that use the Euro, have relatively cheaper oil and more demand. If we put 2 and 2 together here, we can surmise that the war on terror, is actually the war on currency.

[clem_c_rock]

124. BINGO! All the pieces are coming together

The Neocons knew about this impending crisis. Everything in the last 4 years (IE. 911 fabrication, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc), is part of the PNAC plan of desparation to keep us afloat.

Good god...

[Robert Oak]

10. here it comes

the big bad crash.

I only wish I was more prepared, more got swept in the tidal wave.

Now I wish I had some land and some goats and a generator that ran
off of sheep shit.

[lyonn]

17. I have all those things

replace sheep with horses, hope it works, but will my generator work on horse sh--t?

[Kixel]

24. You made need cattle

Like these folks in Vermont:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/01/18/cow.power.ap/index.html

[sendero]

44. LOL...

... well, I don't know about the sheep-shit generator, but I'm working the same angle myself.

I don't think a full-scale depression is likely, but it is no longer impossible.

[demgrrrll]

46. Sounds like Thunderdome. eom

.

[Melynn]

126. I thought that we were Beyond Thunderdome.eom

[ozone_man]

94. Maybe more likely than you think.

I know it doesn't seem likely, but there are plenty of signs already, especially the huge amount of debt that we have acquired as a nation and as consumers. This article helps point out that we can't just print our way out of this mess like Bernancke of the FED has implied. If we try that, China will drop our debt like a rock.

We may have seen the end of the dollar slide for a while. In the next five years, we could very well see a depression or severe recession.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

61. I know where some old Y2K freaks live if you want to get their stuff

I'd pass on the potted meat stash if I were you though.

[Kolesar]

11. Forbes.com

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/ap/2005/01/26/ap1783904.html

[MissB]

13. Link in Reply #6 works. (nt)

[Kolesar]

23. thanks...eom

[amandabeech]

14. I assume that the Chinese are sick of paying for iron, oil and

industrial commodities, as well as imported wheat and soybeans, with a currency devaluing alongside the dollar.

The only question I have is whether this Mr. Fan, who is not employed directly by the Chinese government according to the article, actually speaks for the Chinese government.

If he does, WallyWorld will have to raise prices, along with just about every consumer outlet in the country. Inflation, anyone?

[TexasLawyer]

52. See post 47

Dr. Fan advises the Chinese gov't and appears to be influential.

[Beetwasher]

16. Oh Shit

n/t

[aquart]

25. What part of this is a surprise?

[Bozita]

32. Anybody shocked by this needs to change their sources of information

[MissB]

33. I don't think Beetwasher is shocked

I think he/she was probably wishing for a few more months or years before the other big-assed shoe fell on our collective American heads.

[Beetwasher]

34. None of It, But It Still Sucks

What makes you think I was surprised?

[Robbien]

18. Bush didn't send anyone to Davos to defend his policies

But most expressed skepticism that the Bush administration would reduce the trade and budget deficits, which have fed those imbalances. Some said they doubted that China, which is financing much of the American debt, would bow to pressure to allow its currency to rise against the dollar this year.

"The U.S. current-account deficit is a problem for the whole world," said Jacob A. Frenkel, an economist and former governor of the Bank of Israel. "I don't see the budget deficit being taken seriously."

The Bush administration, which had dispatched Vice President Dick Cheney and then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell to past Davos meetings to defend the Iraq war and other foreign-policy initiatives, has not sent a senior economic policy maker to this gathering. That absence has lent the proceedings themselves an imbalanced tone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/26/business/worldbusiness/26cnd-davos.html

[Cooley Hurd]

20. Cripes! Is the Bush admin TRYING to destroy our economy?

Whoops! Yes they are. Had a brain spasm for a sec...

[Beetwasher]

26. They Are Behaving As If The Future DOESN'T MATTER

Spending like there's no tomorrow, because maybe they KNOW there isn't...

[Cooley Hurd]

28. "Reagan proved defecits don't matter!"

snarl

[Just Me]

68. Will they be surprised when their "capital utopia" is as unsuccessful,...

,...as the "flowers and candy" war in Iraq?

Do they even care?

Hell, NO, 'cause while their children will sing, our children will either starve or die. Greedy sons of spit!!! :mad:

They are so freakin' deluded even in the face of REALITY it seriously makes my head explode.

But, do they care?

Hell, NO, 'cause while their children will sing, our children will either starve or die. Greedy sons of spit!!! :mad:

EWWWWWW,...I wish God would strike these empty-hearted, evil-doin' men down!!!!!

[Bluebear]

29. Bush: "History? Well, we'll all be dead"

These people keep saying they are rapture ready.

[NickB79]

111. Of course it doesn't matter. Bush is a man of faith

Sheesh, you need to get Gawd in your life, because the RAPTURE is comin soon to take all us Gawd-fearin folks away.

[Robbien]

30. "There's nobody home on economic policy in America right now," said Roach

And other quotes in the article:

Roach: Describing American consumers as "an accident waiting to happen," he asked, "when does the music stop?"

Tyson: "The Bush administration doesn't listen to people. There's no hope of changing U.S. fiscal policy."

Takatoshi Ito: "That will need a political commitment and a political will, and I don't see that happening this year,"

Bergsten: "This is a poisonous environment for trade policy and for domestic politics in the United States."

[Donailin]

81. Seriously. I started flipping through Paul O'Neil's

book last night. He says plainly that Bush hasn't a clue, that they have no concept of sound economic policy.

[fairfaxvadem]

21. See, that's just what trips me out.

They really don't give a crap. Didn't send someone to Davos!

I guess we really are alone.

Thank goodness, I just paid off all my bills and except for my fixed mortgage, that's it. Just hope I can stay solvent until I'm done with school in two years.

[villager]

22. well, that would only be trying to be "popular in the halls of Europe"

In the world of NeoCon cultists, there isn't anyone else on this planet, really. Is there?

[fairfaxvadem]

27. No, you're right. Only liberal elitists go to Davos.

And since GWB won a 2nd term, they feel they don't even have to pretend to be interested anymore.

[leftchick]

40. I believe cheney attended last year...

their excuse this year is they are so busy right now with cabinet appointments!!! :puke:

[54anickel]

62. The sent Zoellick - they are using the confimation hearings as an excuse

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1184100#1184433

[Robbien]

86. Isn't Zoellick the globalization goto guy? What does he have to

do with national finance?

[54anickel]

103. Heh-heh, he was all they could "dig up". Shame we couldn't send

anyone higher up, seeing as how the US will be the main topic. Cripes, we've got Blair speaking on our behalf!

Hang on, let me find that article I posted in the SMW thread today...

Heh, it's from the same article I referenced...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1518&ncid=1518&e=1&u=/afp/20050126/bs_afp/forumdavos_050126101236

snip>

Business ethics, energy issues, the US economy and Washington's global role are other items up for discussion.

Interviewed in Britain's Financial Times, Blair said the United States was once again prepared to engage with the international community -- over issues as diverse as climate change and Middle East peace -- after disagreements over Iraq.

[cosmicdot]

123. this guy (photo)

looks like a quack; heaven knows what damage he's done as US Trade Representative ... now, it's on to Deputy at State with Kinda?sleazy Rice ...

what 'think tank' grew him?
CNP? CFR? AEI?

[TexasLawyer]

31. "Now people understand the U.S. dollar will not stop devaluating."

Everyone except our own government and the Bushies.

[yorgatron]

37. so all that cheap Chinese crap we've been buying won't be,

right?

[TexasLawyer]

49. Some words of comfort to the "moral voters"

even though your economic world is crumbling around you, at LEAST-- gays can't get married!

[fertilizeonarbusto]

36. We. Are. So. Fucked. n/t

[Massachusetts]

38. We who Care will survive.

Because we will inform and help each other. Please REMEMBER those Democratic leaders who fought this tyranny, and continue to support them.

I wish the MORONS who support this disastrous administration nothing but the worst.

I'll see you in Hell Georgie boy!

[CoffeeCat]

39. The sad truth is...

...the Shrubster will continue his "Remain Calm!! All is well!!" mantra, and his minions will believe it and argue his talking points.

Meanwhile, the ground crumbles beneath our feet.

In addition to sheep shit and generators, I think we need to dig fallout shelters like they did in the 1950's.

[Massacure]

41. TIMBERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

:nopity:

[cthrumatrix]

42. note there was NOBODY there from the US to counter the rhetoric

from China...I find that very odd.

[PA Democrat]

43. Wal-Mart's prices will be going up soon

Maybe the rest of America will finally start paying attention.

[Bluebear]

45. That happy little "Pricebuster" smiley will be going batshit

RAISING all hte prices!

[Toucano]

64. I can't wait to see that!

Thanks. You made me giggle!

[sendero]

48. Well....

... that is what I believe. When the fact that the economy is in deep trouble is apparent to everyone, people will start looking around and asking why?

Bush**'s spin answer will only hold up for so long.

[Oreo]

51. they'll find somebody or something to blame

I wouldn't put it past them to create another "terrorist" event to overpower an impending economic collapse. Then they could blame the arabs and invade some more countries

[go west young man]

99. I doubt they willl...

they didn't when gas was hitting 2 dollars a gallon last summer. The red states are so stupid that they are willing to work for minimum wage and pay exorbant gas prices and still support Bush (who couldn't give a shit about them). Like someone else said they are all waiting for the rapture to fix everything. We're screwed.

[TexasLawyer]

47. Dr. Fan has the ear of the Chinese Government

http://www.chinaonline.com/refer/biographies/business/Fan_Gang3.asp

Professor of Economics, Graduate School of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, PRC

Director, National Economic Research Institute, China Reform Foundation (NERI-China)

Dr. Fan Gang is a highly distinguished economist trained at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, an elite government think tank overseeing numerous research institutes. In addition to his duties as a professor of that think tank and director of the prestigious NERI-China, Fan devotes his considerable energy to serving as an advisor to the Chinese government and consultant to a number of international organizations. Dr. Fan is a prolific author as well, with over 100 academic papers and eight books on macroeconomics and the economics of transition to his name.

Dr. Fan has been a proponent of using tight monetary policy coupled with an expansionary macroeconomic policy to stimulate China’s domestic demand, which remained sluggish during 1999. Although critics of the Chinese government’s massive investment in infrastructure construction maintained that such public spending merely increased government debt and had so far failed to achieve its purpose, Dr. Fan recommended patience, pointing out that macroeconomic policies take time to work and that in the absence of adequate private investment, the government was obliged to step in until the market economy became firmly established.

<snip>

[cthrumatrix]

50. where is our Treasury Secretary Snow ..........?

this is bad policy by this admin again.

[blm]

55. busy gathering a coalition of American fascists to promote privatization

of Social Security. That's Bush's big economic policy.

[gizmo1979]

54. I thought we wanted chinese to float their money?

Or is that in comparison to the dollar?

[cthrumatrix]

56. they are linking it to a "basket of currencies" yen/euro/$

this is not good...

[54anickel]

67. "This is not good" - depends on your point of view I guess. No it's

not good for the USofA, and it will cause some pain through the markets worldwide, but it might be a good start. Shrubco has made their intentions of benign neglect pretty clear and the longer he's allowed to rack up debts the harder the fall is going to be. It is time for some adult, somewhere in the world to step in. Hopefully it's just more jaw-boning trying to get BeezleBush's attention for now. But it will happen one of these days.

[screembloodymurder]

58. You're right.

The Bush administration has been asking the Chinese to float their currency,

[tubbacheez]

66. Bushco wants China to float its currency because...

... the artificial pegging of the yuan to the dollar was preserving the trade bias in favor of Chinese goods being sold to American consumers.

U.S. companies have been lobbying for some way to sell more American goods to Chinese customers. I guess all those campaign donations are paying off.



But while individual corporations can claim surging sales in a new market, and thus drive up their stock prices, the overall economy will not benefit. The yuan and dollar don't float in isolation. We collectively will see the equivalent of inflation as the dollar's buying power weakens.

But those who hold large amounts of stock are likely to see their investments outpacing this inflation, especially if the hordes of small investors start pouring money into stocks for fear of being left behind.

This creates another stock bubble. But rest assured the big players will get out in time before the next crash.

[Just Me]

70. Which explains the CON on "privatizing" Social Security.

Sucker as many into the market as quickly as possible before the realignment of the market.

:puke:

Predatory profitteering at its utmost evil.:evilfrown:

Usurp as much public wealth as possible and feel justified because the public are just a bunch of "suckers".

Unfuckinbelievable!!! :mad:

[tubbacheez]

74. Bingo!

How many people with these private accounts will be avidly following, not just the stock market, but the international money trade as well? Week after week, and month after month? For the duration of their working lives?


This is the worst manifestation of the traditional conservative ethic that everyone should be responsible for themselves. They're practically throwing millions of financial newbies to the sharks and wolves.



This situation would be no different if a bunch of evil chemists took over the government and mandated that every working citizen have access to dozens of poisons.

Those who know what they're doing will be fine. And anyone who gets hurt is deemed either unlucky or stupid.

[go west young man]

100. No, they will work it like a 401K multichoice plan...

except all the choices will be Bush/Cheney affiliates of some sort. That way all the dollars go straight to the thieves. No sticky mess. No nasty cleanup.

[Clark2008]

76. In this case, I'm glad I'm working poor

My job is fairly secure because we're a small company, although we do sell to larger companies.
However, I don't have any money in stock (can't afford a 401K).
I'll just invest in my son and hope to hell he's smart enough and kind enough to take care of me when I'm old.

*sigh*

[tubbacheez]

80. It's true that those without much have little to lose.

And I think we would all be wise to borrow some of that strategy and start investing in such intangibles as strong families, good relationships, and trusted networks of community (both online and offline).

Wealth comes in many forms. And the robber-barons are only interested in a few types.

[Clark2008]

87. Thank you! One of the reasons I am "working poor"

is because I choose to spend my evenings with my family (son and dogs) instead of spinning around working two or three jobs to do what? Die?
I also choose to live where I do and make less (I could move and make more money, I'm sure. I am educated) rather than leave my parents (they also help with the son when I'm at work).
I made the trade for family over money the minute I found out I was pregnant. And I wouldn't have it any other way. :)

[tubbacheez]

109. That's awesome. You seriously are wealthy in many ways. Rock on! n/t

[Daphne08]

125. Same here

I worked as a high school teacher for twenty years instead of working in the private sector, and I still value the time I was able to spend with my sons even though I have no money saved.

They are now both college graduates, and I'm quite proud of them. Perhaps one day, they will take of me.

This is traditionally the way our ancestors lived... extended families and one generation taking care of another.

[Just Me]

113. The most sound investments I've ever made in my life,...

,...have been in my son, my family and my friends!!!

:hi:

I never have made enough money to do Wall Street. But, I've managed to live a very full and quality life even during the most stressful economic times.

[JNelson6563]

57. I've seen this coming

for a long time. This is going to be the start of an economic tsunami for the US IMO.

Julie

[Cobalt Violet]

60. Amazing how distructive 4 yrs. of an idiot can be.

[BamaBecky]

63. THIS IS BIG....and I have been anticipating this trouble.....and now

watch more dominoes fall......

[Lone_Star_Dem]

65. They won't be able to sweep this mess under the rug for four years

This is going to hit Bush's base. The Wal-Mart mentality bushbots will also be feeling the pain.

Inflation will rise right along with interest rates. Just like we've known all along.

[Donailin]

75. I'm no economist but what does this mean for the housing market?

Will this eventually pop the bubble because interest rates will soar? Personally, I hope so.

And what should the average consumer do besides pay off all creditors right quick?

[Clark2008]

78. I'm going to do this with my income tax return

I was planning on this, anyway.

I'll still have my house debt, but at just under $500 a month, I might be able to swing it even waitressing, if I had to.

[Donailin]

84. same here

I'm paying off every debt except car, and I don't have a mortgage precisely because the homes here are WAY over valued.

[tubbacheez]

82. not an economist, but been following housing markets for a bit.

Whether any bubbles pop is hard to foresee. Rising inflation rates will tend to quash the enthusiasm for buying. But whether prices go up, stay the same, or go down depends on the balance of buyers vs. sellers.


There is a certain case where being in debt would be a good thing. If you lock in a home loan at a low rate, and then the rates go up, you can live better than you otherwise would have. If housing prices rise faster than your interest rate, you end up making money on the difference.

If you have any doubts, though, I'd take the fiscally conservative approach and minimize debt.

Consumer debt (e.g. credit cards) is typically variable rate, so clean that off your plate ASAP. The bank just raises rates and bleeds you more whenever they need to. It's just not worth it.

[wiggs]

71. This country has been driven into the ditch. nt

[Clark2008]

72. Holy Shit

A broker on Clark's message board has been warning about this for a couple of months.

Unfortunately, I shouldn't be surprised.

Think I could sell my money for kindling in China?

[Renew Deal]

73. So what does this mean for us?

Can you link to that?

[Donailin]

77. what the monkey? Lou Dobbs barely said more than two sentences

on his show just now. Strange. . .

[ourbluenation]

79. yeah but...

The Chinese yuan is not traded on any currency market, nor will it be. The Chinese have hooked the value of their currency to the US Dollar, so they have a guideline, and as the Dollar is currently weak, they are going to base the value of the yuan on some other countries currency. Currency traders the world over would love for the Chinese currency to be traded on the market, because the volatility of the government and the Chinese leadership would make for some huge profit making situations. The chinese know this, and therefore they will not allow their currency to be traded. The fact that they have chosen to pick another currency to decide what their own money is worth will not weaken or strangthen the Dollar. Until very recently, the Japanese Yen was traded, but the HMFIC in Japan would occasionally just change the value of the yen....because he could. This causes huge volatility and big swings in the market.
So yep, our economy still sucks, but the Chinese haven't done anything to change that.

[aneerkoinos]

112. It means a world to dollar

When China unpegs from dollar and pegs to a basket, the last safety net (East Asian central banks) goes from under dollar and it's open to free-fall.

Reason for this has been that main competitors with China, especially Japan, have been forced to support dollar in order to devaluate their own currency so they would stay competitive with China. After renminbi is pegged to euro and yen, dollar can sink all it wants without affecting the relative strenth of other currencies.

[hansberrym]

83. Why is this a bad thing? If Chinese goods become more expensive

in the US, we will buy less and the trade deficit will come down.


If the prices on Chinese imports go up, then domestically produced goods will become more competitive. One benefit of the declining dollar might be that the "giant sucking sound" of exported manufacturing jobs gets a little quieter.



The potential for downside would be if the rising cost of imports
were enough to push up inflation in the US.

[tubbacheez]

85. yes, there is a beneficial effect. will it be big enough, is the question

With the current ratio, and speaking very very generally, Chinese skilled labor is less than 1/10 the cost of American skilled labor.

This is because the average standard of living in China is nowhere close to that in America.

Even if Chinese labor begins to rise in comparison to American labor, there is an awful lot of room to rise before off-shoring jobs starts looking unattractive.

[VegasWolf]

88. This is awful, hope everyone here has followed the warnings to

convert to euros before the value of your dollar approximates
toilet paper.

[VegasWolf]

89. What to expect from a group of neo conservatives who believe with

all their hearts that the rapture will happen in the next
few years. Who needs social security, nobody will be around.

[Lefty48197]

90. I think the Chinese are saying...

that the Bush "weak dollar" policy won't hurt them as much as tying their currency to the dollar. Remember when currencies from Communist countries were worthless on the world market?

[anarchy1999]

91. All I have to say is Bwha ha ha. It's been a long time coming.

Stand down, take cover. Our very own tsnami is coming in an economic form. Hello Argentina.

[indepat]

92. Our dollar no longer a stable currency? Hey fella, this ain't no banana

republic, so watch your mouth!

[robertpaulsen]

95. Kicked and bookmarked!

:kick:

[NYC]

97. Kick.

I think this is the beginning.

[VegasWolf]

98. This is certainly an acceleration. OPEC has quietly been shifting

its bias away from the weakling US dollars into euros.

[Deja Q]

102. Isn't this good news?

The offshorers will then see how keeping good jobs in America would pay off better, surely?

</ignorant>

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KissMeKate]

105. if our country goes down

the hole, let it be on Bushs watch.

[fortyfeetunder]

106. China's Schadenfreude

When I see all the crap made in China, and learning about their massive manufacturing empire across their country, this is gonna be a big one.

Speculate China publicly is expressing concern, but in private having their version of Schadenfreu to C like "Too bad suckers".....

[leesa]

107. Here we go...the very slippery slope.

[98geoduck]

110. It's not only China...

Refer to Seymour Hersh' take on Europe....


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x101158

[Ilsa]

114. NPR was reporting on the UN's concern

for our high debt level and high trade deficit and that both together are creating instability and risk for other nations that trade with us and hold our debt. At a minimum, I guess we should expect interest rates to increase to make up for some of this risk.

God, wouldn't it be great if we were economically strong-armed into putting away our spendthrift war plans?

[Massachusetts]

115. The GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO Represents US,

why has the power of WE the PEOPLE become so impedant?

[Renew Deal]

116. They don't care what "we" think.

They had two goals. Getting elected the first time and the second time. Other than that, they don't give a shit about anybody or anything else.

[wiggs]

117. Question for finance folks:

Seems like there could be other important side effects to this news:

How does this affect China's ability to buy into our national debt? What is the effect if they stop?

[Chicago Democrat]

119. China can make us fail, but then THEY fail, therefore the Chinese

will continue to buy TBills at 4%. As long as this continues.... Expect more of the same.

[wiggs]

118. Not a single word in LA Times today.

Other news from Davos was reported...nothing about China's statement.

[alexisfree]

121. next U.S. citizens will be working in sweatsops in usa for china products

[alexisfree]

122. gold, gold, gold...its good to have gold