Animal-Human Hybrids Spark Controversy

[truthpusher]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras.html

Animal-Human Hybrids Spark Controversy

Maryann Mott
National Geographic News

January 25, 2005
Scientists have begun blurring the line between human and animal by producing chimeras—a hybrid creature that's part human, part animal.

Chinese scientists at the Shanghai Second Medical University in 2003 successfully fused human cells with rabbit eggs. The embryos were reportedly the first human-animal chimeras successfully created. They were allowed to develop for several days in a laboratory dish before the scientists destroyed the embryos to harvest their stem cells.


In Minnesota last year researchers at the Mayo Clinic created pigs with human blood flowing through their bodies.

And at Stanford University in California an experiment might be done later this year to create mice with human brains.

more:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras.html

[denverbill]

1. Oh great. Will all the 'right to lifers' now want to ban D-Con?

After all, if a mouse has a human brain, isn't it a human being?

[joefree1]

5. Somehow I think the Borg-agains will go for sheep/human hybrids

Just got a feeling.

[Maine-ah]

2. WTF!!

[asthmaticeog]

3. That sound you're hearing

is a furry somewhere, having to change into clean pants.

[redqueen]

19. hahahahahahahaha

:spank:

[mitchum]

88. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

very nice :)

[DustMolecule]

4. There was another thread on this yesterday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3008671&mesg_id=3008671

[sam sarrha]

6. i dont even want to know where the Viagra people are going to take this.!!

:think: :wow: :hug:

[slackmaster]

7. Sign me up for a chicken/human hybrid that I can use as a servant

The free eggs would come in handy.

[prayin4rain]

21. Eeewww chicken lady from Kids in the Hall was so gross. n/t

[old blue]

8. There's a line between human and animal????

I was not aware of that.

[prodigal_green]

89. My thoughts exactly

creationist propaganda is so insidious...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. Ahh yes... so many genes, so many possibilities

Animal Farm here we come.

[Kolesar]

12. What is the law? ... eom

[comsymp]

20. My thoughts exactly

(and not the 90s, shitty remake; the 70s shitty remake!!!)

[Igel]

26. I don't think there's any law governing this sort of

thing. Maybe just an administrative restriction on no government financing.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. I think they are refering to "The Island of Dr. Moreau"

But I could be wrong... http://www.jabootu.com/islandmoreau.htm
I was referring to Orwell's book, where the animals in the end become just like the humans in thought and action if not actually and physically.

[Kolesar]

69. Yes, and I recall liking the shitty 1990s remake

I thought it compared well to other 1990s films.
"No spill blood"

[Carolab]

65. Canada has laws/guidelines but not U.S.

It's in the article:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras.html

Last year Canada passed the Assisted Human Reproduction Act, which bans chimeras. Specifically, it prohibits transferring a nonhuman cell into a human embryo and putting human cells into a nonhuman embryo.

Cynthia Cohen is a member of Canada's Stem Cell Oversight Committee, which oversees research protocols to ensure they are in accordance with the new guidelines.

She believes a ban should also be put into place in the U.S.

Creating chimeras, she said, by mixing human and animal gametes (sperms and eggs) or transferring reproductive cells, diminishes human dignity.

"It would deny that there is something distinctive and valuable about human beings that ought to be honored and protected," said Cohen, who is also the senior research fellow at Georgetown University's Kennedy Institute of Ethics in Washington, D.C.

But, she noted, the wording on such a ban needs to be developed carefully. It shouldn't outlaw ethical and legitimate experiments—such as transferring a limited number of adult human stem cells into animal embryos in order to learn how they proliferate and grow during the prenatal period.

Irv Weissman, director of Stanford University's Institute of Cancer/Stem Cell Biology and Medicine in California, is against a ban in the United States.

[norml]

95. "Not to go on all-Fours; that is the Law. Are we not Men?"

"Say the words," said the Ape Man, repeating, and the figures in the doorway echoed this, with a threat in the tone of their voices. I realized that I had to repeat this idiotic formula, And then began the insanest ceremony. The voice in the dark began intoning a mad litany, line by line, and I and the rest to repeat it. As they did so, they swayed from side to side, and beat their hands upon their knees, and I followed their example. I could have imagined I was already dead and in another world. That dark hut, these grotesque dim figures, just flecked here and there by a glimmer of light, and all of them swaying in unison and chanting:

"Not to go on all-Fours; that is the Law. Are we not Men?

"Not to suck up Drink; that is the Law. Are we not Men?

"Not to eat Flesh or Fish; that is the Law. Are we not Men?

"Not to claw the Bark of Trees; that is the Law. Are we not Men?

"Not to chase other Men; that is the Law. Are we not Men?"


—H. G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau (Chapter 12, "The Sayers of the Law"), 1896. New York: Bantam Books, 1994, pp. 64-65.

[daleo]

10. One of these is already president of the U.S.

Chimp-human hybrid, although many insist there is no human component.

[saigon68]

16. LOL--- THE AWOL CHIMPANZEE

a/k/a ---THE "BRING EM ON" KID

[stevedeshazer]

32. Oliver's brother?

http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa022800a.htm

[kskiska]

36. and the rest of them are called "Republicans"

Ever notice how you can tell which is the republican in a group even before they open their mouth?

[BrightKnight]

93. Ham in his flight suit

[fryguy]

11. humans ARE animals

[superconnected]

35. so lets quit killing animals since they're us

And definitely stop eating them. That's canibalism.

[Mills Street]

40. "Humans are animals," not "animals are humans"

There is a difference you know....

To quote a great book:

"Then you should say what you mean,' the March Hare went on.

`I do,' Alice hastily replied; `at least--at least I mean what I say--that's the same thing, you know.'

`Not the same thing a bit!' said the Hatter. `You might just as well say that "I see what I eat" is the same thing as "I eat what I see"!' "

[superconnected]

45. yeah but

all humans are animals
therefore some animals are human

works.

[superconnected]

46. I guess we can throw in

we should not eat the animals that are human, for the people who aren't vegetarians.

and we shouldn't eat any of the animals, human or otherwise, for people like me.

;)

[VegasWolf]

48. but the animals that are not human can eat the mammals that are human.

[VegasWolf]

47. LOL. You have a very logical mind! n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

13. Actually - the "Human Blood In Pig Veins"

has some tie in to endocrinology, especially diabetes (pig pancreatic tissue is very similar to human pancreatic tissue) --- and also to cardiovascular surgery (pig heart valves and arteries are used in heart surgery).

I guess now MISTER (Not "Doctor, but "MISTER") - Dave Weldon, a Neo Con Fundie Congressman from Florida and MISTER (Not "Doctor, but "MISTER") Tom Coburn, a Neo Con Fundie Senator from Oklahoma (see footnote) can also try to ban selected diabetes treatments and certain heart surgeries. Coburn, Weldon, and Frist identify themselves as medical school graduates.

If Coburn, Weldon, and Frist are the future of US Medicine - I'm just going to drive as far North on US 101 as I can - to Vancouver.

Weldon introduced - and Coburn supported - a bill to make it a crime (as in jail time) for a US resident to leave the country to obtain a stem cell research based or derived therapy, receive the therapy over seas, and then re-enter the US

[BiggJawn]

14. So Omaha the Cat Dancer could become a reality....

Just because you CAN fuck with nature is no reason you SHOULD.

[420inTN]

17. HAHAHAHA... i remember those comics.

I haven't seen one in YEARS.

[420inTN]

15. Paging Dr. Moreau, call on line 2. n/t

[420inTN]

18. What about Alien/Human hybrids?

How's everyone stand on those?

[prayin4rain]

22. I think I may be one of those.

I do not seem to relate...a little TOO often. And I am always talking about "people this" and "people that", I have a genuine disconnect. hhhhmmmmmmmmm :+

[vs the introvore]

24. i am more in favor of some plant/human hybrids myself.

how about you, mr fourtwenty volunteer? maybe a little gland that could secrete something special when/if. that's be quaint.

[420inTN]

37. Hmm.... No, thanks. Now, if you had any cybernetic enhancements...

I could go for that.

[ashling]

23. What'll we do tonight?

The same thing we do every night, try to take over the world.

And at Stanford University in California an experiment might be done later this year to create mice with human brains

[Virginian]

63. Pinky and the Brain!

I recognize that quote. Haven't seen animaniacs in a long time.

[Boosterman]

68. Bah beat me to it

And we are making terminators atm too. Dont these people watch TV? Sheesh

[Archae]

25. Next thing, Bowman's wolves?

:D

http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff100/fv00009.htm

[CoffeeCat]

28. This is not the first chimera. I remember....

this press release that came out in 1946.
---------------

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

(NEW HAVEN, CONNECTICUT) July 7, 1946--In a vivid blend of human, chimpanzee and dung-beetle cells, researchers at the San Diego Zoo have created a male being that will live among the United States population.

The chimera--an organism consisting of two or more tissues of different genetic composition--will appear human, although his identity will remain confidential.

"Our new creation looks human and has the brain capacity of a chimpanzee," said Jack Hannah, head researcher for the project. "Since the dung beetle dedicates it's life to rolling in and building things with feces--we fully expect that our newly created chimera will spend most of its life turning everything to shit."

Although Hannah would not speculate on the chimera's whereabouts, he revealed that a family did agree to raise the chimera as its own.

"Although the chimera has a chimp's brain, said Hannah, "he may someday be a productive member of society--working as a crossing guard or in the drive-up window at Long John Silver's."

-30-

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. GW was born on July 6, 1946 in New Haven

I definitely think there's a connection. :)

[truthpusher]

30. Don't you mean 'Chimpera'.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

34. LOL!!!

Excellent!

[central scrutinizer]

31. why not cross with plants, too

turn poor people green with chlorophyll, then you could feed them on dirt and they wouldn't even want a home since that would reduce the amount of sunlight they would be exposed to. voila! Thanks, you can send the Nobel Peace Prize to me now.

[elehhhhna]

55. Soylent Green is...?

[central scrutinizer]

58. no, that was cannibalism

I want something new: photosynthesis in humans. Fall below a certain income level and you will be shot with a tranquilizer dart and required to undergo gene therapy so you can produce your own food from sunlight and dirt and we can stop supporting your lazy ass with food stamps.

[elehhhhna]

74. Won't happen 'til the New Enron corners the dirt market.

[i miss america]

79. What a great idea for a movie! Maybe we can pry the gun away from Moses.

[Nihil]

77. Ummm ... might have a little competition on that one ...

... from the estate of Philip K. Dick (if I remember correctly) or maybe
a different classic science fiction authors who wrote a story based on
that subject ... the "breakthrough" came in the discovery/creation of
an enzyme that allowed the human body to absorb, generate and utilise
chlorophyll ... have to find it and re-read it!

[superconnected]

33. when they get creatures that run around

and not just cells, I'm going to have to scream about the drug companies testing on them and most likely in many cases killing them.

my opinion of drug companies is they are essential evil corporations. Let's not forget Monsanto and of course vioxx.

These companies will do anything to increase their profit margin. They are not really about curing the world of diseases. When it's unprofitable, they don't pursue the cure.

[VegasWolf]

38. Cool, this has all sorts of applicatiions, better pig valves for human

heart valve replacement. The US is going to lose out on
the largest technological changes the world has ever seen
because the religious nut cases believe that man and
animals are so different. Homo sapiens is only a
tiny branch of the Class Mammalia.

[Megahurtz]

39. What the Fuck???

Is this for real???:wtf:

[VegasWolf]

42. Sure, people have been working on chimeras for a long

time. They just haven't translated to human genome transfer untill
recently. One study utilized chimeric mice to reveal clues
as to how the brain's clock "ticks" or synchronizes itself.
In mammals, the main circadian clock components reside in cells in the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) of the brain.
The mice were genetically engineered using a standard technique for producing chimeric mice. The researchers combined eight-cell embryos from wild-type mice with cells from embryos that contained a mutant Clock gene, which produces a loss of circadian rhythms and a period length of 27-29 hours in homozygous animals (mice with two copies of the mutant gene).

I was involved in some neurological studies of mammalian clock
mechanisms back in the early 80's.

[Megahurtz]

51. Geez, that's nuts!

This could really get out of hand.:freak:

[VegasWolf]

53. Nah, it's perfectly 100% safe. n/t

[Gabi Hayes]

59. so THAT'S why there are mice genes mixed in with the supposedly

pure (as well as almost nonexistent) strains of embryonic stem cells with which the chimpera has left the US scientific community to tinker?

everybody enjoy yer frankenfood

[Minstrel Boy]

71. "Please...kill me...."

[FlaGranny]

41. I read all the posts and I'm still wondering

at the thought of a human brain in a mouse. That would be a very top-heavy mouse.

[Solon]

43. Besides the jokes...

What the hell would be the ethical obligations, and rights, of a Non-Human being with Human intelligence(plus everything that goes with it). This can be a huge problem without regulation.

[fob]

78. The fundies won't have a problem with it right up until the mouse with

a human brain says, "I think I'm gay", then medical schools will all be shut down and retooled with 'Leeching 101' and 'How to tell if a librul is a witch' as the main coursework.

[prodigal_green]

90. That entirely depends on whether

the chimera has a penis or a vagina. Or follows a non-christian faith.

[KittyWampus]

44. LOL! All I'm Going To Add Is That All This Is Probably Unnecessary

I think medical science is going in the wrong direction.

Rather than continue on with its obsession with mechanical means it might be time to start in depth studies on using Consciousness and the Mind for controlling and manipulating our bodies/environments back into balance.

In other words, it'd be nice to see more resources spent on Holistic stuff.

[VegasWolf]

49. Be careful about creating gay chimeras, they will be scorned by

the religious right.

[Jack_DeLeon]

50. Humans are animal...

that being said yeah this is a bit weird, but definately interesting.

[Spinzonner]

52. This is not necessarily a 'Good Thing'

even given the potential for medical advances in therapy that would be made possible.

Sharing of genetic materials might also make humans susceptible to diseases - especially virus borne ones - that it is currently rather immune to. The potential for epidemics that quickly cross species lines that it currently takes considerable time (and mutations) to do might be catastrophic.

[VegasWolf]

54. Actually, they are talking the opposite direction. Portions of the

human genome transplanted into non human animals.

[Guaranteed]

56. I think this might be taking it all a bit too far. nt

[mordarlar]

57. Mice with human brains? Why bother our kids have human brains...

we can simply study them or harvest parts from them. What would be the difference? A human thought process is human thought process. I am incredibly disturbed. I would have less issue with something like human blood in an otherwise completely animal body. When you incorporate a human brain into an animal body you are creating all kinds of issues. Is it OK to hunt a human? For those who would say it is not OK to hunt an animal let me ask you would you prefer a rabbit hunted our your 3 yr old daughter. If it were legal to hunt our children like it is to hunt animals would you accept it? I know some people will say it would be no different. But i can assure you they can say this while it is hypothetical. Let it become reality and you will see a completely different scenario. With each passing day i find that humanity is capable of creating bigger problems for itself. Why have enough issues to fix as it is without adding more to the mix.

[VegasWolf]

60. Mixing animal brains with robots. Computer scientists are

experimenting with a type of computer programming
known as neural networks and are using mice brain
as a parallel processing substrate. The neurons of
the brain can be modeled as a digital device, give the
neuron's "all or nothing" firing. The neuron is not
analog, i.e. it either fires or it doesn't. Scientists
are growing mice brain tissue in cultures and then attaching
leads. The interesting thing about neural networks is that
they can be trained to recognize patterns and thus have
neat applications in artificial intelligence paradigms.

However, isolated from the hormone baths of the animal, these
brain devices would be coldly logical and analytical.

[mordarlar]

62. If people CAN do they WILL do. Humans are not often known for their...

restraint. Below the Dr. says he has no knowledge of any intent for the BIZARRE. People will "go there". They always do. So what happens if we do find ourselves with the example listed below? A mouse who cannot physically relate to one of it's genetic species and cannot relate mentally to the other. Or vise versa. Does this potential not scare anyone?



>>>For example, an experiment that would raise concerns, he said, is genetically engineering mice to produce human sperm and eggs, then doing in vitro fertilization to produce a child whose parents are a pair of mice.

"Most people would find that problematic," Magnus said, "but those uses are bizarre and not, to the best of my knowledge, anything that anybody is remotely contemplating. Most uses of chimeras are actually much more relevant to practical concerns." <<<

[Chicago Democrat]

61. A Monkey with 3 asses!

:)

[NickB79]

67. No, no no

The 5-assed monkey is truly my greatest creation yet.

[jmowreader]

85. But do you have anything besides animals with four asses?

[The Doctor.]

87. Why yes...

The entire administration and cabinet comprise the greatest genetic achievement in all of human history...

"The 7- assed Chimporer!"

[zann725]

64. Great! Mice with human brains?!...who'd start setting traps to catch us!

Sounds like Shrubco's version of Scientific research...Mengel-style.

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

66. Anthuman-Soldiers!

save on body armor as they've come with them! borghivelike minds


yeeehaw!

/sarcasm off

[American Tragedy]

70. Am I the only one here somewhat disturbed

by the idea of a mouse with a human brain?

That would seem to doom a highly intelligent, emotional life form to a rather short and limited existence.

[Minstrel Boy]

72. More than somewhat here.

If this is what we're coming to, then the Earth can't be rid of us fast enough.

[mordarlar]

73. Agreed.

[420inTN]

76. I doubt that it will be a whole human brain.

1) a full human brain wouldn't fit into a rat skull
2) the brain would out way the mouse by about 16:1. the little bugger wouldn't be able to walk.

I think that they're saying it might be possible to grow/breed a mouse with human brain cells, not a human brain.

deit: Upon further review, it appears that the scientists want to see if they could produce a human brain to scale in mice. in other words, all of the physical properties of a human brain (cortex, frontal lobe, etc.), but to mouse scale. Still, it is darkly amusing to imagine a mouse with full-size human brain. The little legs kicking, not able to go anywhere. ;-)

[Lorien]

92. Oh, thanks for that image

:puke:

[Lorien]

91. You're not the only one

though DU is filled with those who gleefully crow about killing animals on a regular basis, I would hope that such horrific hybrids would garner a tiny sliver of empathy.

Obviously, the mad scientists who are creating these mutants never read or watched science fiction! Such endeavors always end in tears...

[bunny planet]

75. Can they do this yet?

[Rex]

80. So I'm not an animal?

Sweet!

[jazzjunkysue]

81. Old news. Human-vampire bat hybrid: We call him Dick Cheney.

So far, no evidence that there's any blood at all in his veins.

[truthpusher]

82. Don't insult Vampire-bats like that! n/t

[jazzjunkysue]

83. (Sorry)

[sakabatou]

84. Wanna play mad scientist? Anyone?

[HockeyMom]

86. Already have an animal-human hybrid

he is in the White House.

[norml]

94. They are as Edgar Cayce called them, "Children of Belial"

According to the Edgar Cayce readings, these mutants were
the result not only of genetic tampering but also the union
of animals (Homo Sapiens?) with the "THINGS". The most
renowned psychic reader of the century left us the following
record on the Atlantean era: "There was not a labouring for
the sustenance of life (as in the present), but rather
individuals who were children of the Law of One--- and some
who were the children of Belial (in the early experience)---
were served by automatons, or THINGS, that were retained by
individuals or groups to do the labors of a household, or to
cultivate the fields or the like, or to perform the
activities of artisans." Interpreting his father's readings
on Atlantis, Edgar Evans Cayce says the term "THINGS" refers
to "the life form creations of the spiritual beings believe, the Nephilim] who had projected themselves into
materiality....the earth was proceeding along anevolutionary
pattern...which was interrupted by the projection into
materiality of these thought forms. It sounds as if they,
in many cases, mixed with animals, the results being
sometimes quite bizarre." Based on his Cayce research, Brad
Steiger in his book ATLANTIS RISING concludes that some of
these creatures carried "physical deformities, such as
feathered appendages, webbed feet, and other animal-like
features". As an extra, insidious feature of Atlantean
culture, the sons of Belial soon discovere cybernetic
control of the human brain. They cracked the DNA code,
enabling them to shape heredity. Such control resting in
unethical hands could only result in the creation of more
"THINGS". Well, it was precisely this violation of the RNA
and DNA chains that interfered with and severly curtailed
Man's relationship to god. "How could this be?" you say.
You see,through the control of the brain waves and the
neurological system with its delicate balance in the
interchange of the life-force from Spiritual Man through the
chakras to the organs and cells of genetic man, the sons of
Belial, to use the Cayce term, altered humanity's genetic
capacity for psychic (soul or 'solar') awareness.

snip http://www.skepticfiles.org/silly/fallen.htm