British Military Plane Crashes in Iraq

[Scurrilous]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=2&u=/ap/20050130/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_plane_crash

<snip>

"A British C-130 military transport plane crashed Sunday north of Baghdad, a senior U.S. military officer said. There was no immediate word on casualties, but the official said the plane's wreckage was scattered over a large area.

The C-130, en route from Baghdad to the city of Balad, went down 25 miles northwest of Baghdad, said the official, who spoke only on condition of anonymity. The cause of the crash not immediately known.


Helicopters were at the scene and observed the wreckage."

[Cooley Hurd]

2. "plane's wreckage was scattered over a large area..."

...means exploded in midair. Could be mechanical/airframe failure, or could be it was shot down...

[leftchick]

4. why would they even try and fly one of those today?

I suspect it was shot down. We have not heard much about those SAMs in a while.

[Rose Siding]

44. BBC says it's the favored aircraft of SAS

It's a workhorse.

Still no casualty rpt but they were "en route from Baghdad to the city of Balad, north-west of the capital, which houses one of the largest US airbases in Iraq."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4220649.stm

[saigon68]

3. Some one forgot to tighten a couple of bolts

Nothing to see-- Move along.

[izzybeans]

5. Like a sandstorm, the flying Chadds swirled around the atmosphere

making air travel difficult.

[saigon68]

6. LOL

Good one

[DeaconBlues]

7. If there are a lot of casualties the Brits aren't going to like this

The British are a lot more sensitive when comes to the loss of their soldiers than is the average American couch jockey.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. Depends on what they were transporting

[fedsron2us]

8. Balad is nowhere near the British occupation zone.

I wonder who or what was being carried on that plane.

[LynnTheDem]

11. UK troops were brought up into Baghdad area while US genocided

Fallujah; they replaced US troops and remained for extra "election" security in Baghdad.

The UK troops are now being transported...were being transported...back down south.

[Stella_Artois]

17. Wrong

They left Iraq before Christmas.

[fedsron2us]

18. The main British force deployed whilst Falluhah was attacked

was a battalion of the Scottish regiment, Black Watch at Camp Dogwood
(or "Dogfood" as they called it). They were withdrawn before Christmas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4086451.stm

There were 220 British troops deployed last week to replace a Dutch force but this was in the south of Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4212655.stm

Balad is 50 miles north of Baghdad.

[bigluckyfeet]

55. The Plane can carry

128 soldiers,plus crew.

[LynnTheDem]

10. flying Baghdad to Balad = likely loaded w troops

Not good.

[fedsron2us]

12. If they are British regular troops

being sent outside the UK occupation zone then Blair may be in for some serious shit because he has has made no mention of this fact to the British parliament.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. That's right

it was the Scots that he sent to Fallujha. He didn't dare send Brits.

[LynnTheDem]

15. The Scots ARE Brits.

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Technically

don't tell that to a Scotsman though.

[LynnTheDem]

20. Don't tell it to THIS Scot that we're "not Brits"!

It's called Great BRITAIN.

bLiar didn't want to send ENGLISH troops; I'd go for that. ;)

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. Thank you for clarifying the difference for me

I meant the English.

To us Yankees, Brits usually means someone from England.

[LynnTheDem]

30. PUT UP YER DUKES!!! PUT EM UP!!!

Them's FIGHTIN' WORDS!!! :D

English come from England.

Scots come from Scotland.

Welsh come from Wales.

They all come from the UK or GB. ;)

[DS1]

36. Sure you aren't Irish?

:7 ;-)

[LynnTheDem]

39. Only a wee dram...and we don't talk about that in the family

A good Campbell lady got taken in by a ruffian Breck a few generations ago. Best not speak of it. ;)

:D

[puerco-bellies]

120. Bwwwwaaaa haaa haaaa..

[CJCRANE]

122. And there's more...

England, Scotland and Wales make up Great Britain.

Great Britain and Northern Ireland make up the United Kingdom.

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

164. uhhh wasn'r that vice versa?

united kingdom was referring to scotland and england (+wales) while graet britain is england with the "rest of the remaining empire"

[DistantWind88]

169. No

Great Britian is the island; the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island is the state.

[fedsron2us]

22. The Scots are quite happy to be Britons.

They just do not like the fact that most foreigners, and Americans in particular tend to confuse the terms British with English. Britain existed long before England.

[Maat]

131. Thanks for clearing that up! And I'm serious.

O.K. - Ireland (not North Ireland) - I know that it is independent. But what is it part of!

[LynnTheDem]

14. No, the UK people knew about it.

Don't you remember it? The US asked the UK to send their troops up to take the place of US troops while US troops hit Fallujah.

He did make mention of it to Parliament; Parliament approved it.

[jmcgowanjm]

19. FoxNews-"we're keeping it on the dark side"

The reporter has flak jacket and helmet.

"Understandable", says NYface

Yes, this voting is going great.

[LynnTheDem]

23. Them be the ones. If the Herc had troops, could be 60-130 troops.

Not good. And STILL no casualty numbers on my newsfeeds. :(

[torque]

24. Right, Ramadi is being secretly leveled Falluja-style...

...this moment and has been under attack for days now. Bombing sorties are flying from the carriers in the gulf round the clock. Ramadi is toast, that is why the UK soldiers are in Baghdad.

[jmcgowanjm]

27. The entire country is a "free fire zone"

IRR Saturday

Resistance drives US forces out of ar-Ramadi Saturday morning.

US forces and their puppets completely withdrew
from ar-Ramadi on Saturday at 7am, leaving no
puppet administrator in the city. At 6:30 Iraqi Resistance
forces had fired thirteen 82mm mortar rounds at the US base
in the glass works, setting off secondary explosions of
US munitions and sending thick smoke rising into the sky.
The Resistance also destroyed all the election stations in
the city.

US forces had been guarding one of those stations located
at the main police station , but the Resistance razed it to
the ground in a bombardment with mortars and four
Katyusha rockets. At the time he filed his report at
9:32pm Saturday night Mecca time, the Mafkarat al-
Islam correspondent reported that there were still bodies
of American troops, collaborator translators, and puppet
election commissioners in the rubble of that
building.

[Scurrilous]

21. Confirmed by British Ministry of Defence:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4220649.stm

<snip>

"A British military transport plane has crashed in Iraq, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed."

<snip>

"A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said of the crash: "It has just happened and it is one of ours."

British military chiefs have used the plane as a "workhorse" to transport troops, fuel, ammunition and humanitarian relief.

It is the favoured aircraft of special forces (SAS) and is regarded as being especially of use in Iraq for its ability to land in desert conditions."

[jmcgowanjm]

26. I'm going with shot down by a strela, Alex, for $500

The only way supplies are moving is by air

Even trucks are sometimes shipped in by air.

In just the past month, the increased air operations have
kept more than 400 trucks and about 1,050 drivers with
military escorts off the most dangerous roads in Iraq, said an
Air Force spokesman, Lt. Col. Mike Caldwell. American
military convoys have been suffering about 100 deaths
and injuries a month.

The increased airlift operations started in early November at
the urging of Gen. John P. Jumper, the Air Force chief of
staff, who told reporters on Tuesday that he threw "a little
fit" when he learned on a visit to Iraq last month that air
and ground commanders were not sufficiently focused
on finding ways the Air Force could reduce the number of
ground convoys, especially in the treacherous Sunni-
dominated areas north and west of Baghdad.

"Taking the trucks off the most dangerous routes where we
have most of the trouble has become a goal," General
Jumper said at a breakfast meeting. "We're all working
toward that."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/15/politics/15military.html?ex=1107234000&en=d0065dd46e32f0b0&ei=5070&oref=login

I guess the Brits are part of it.

[fedsron2us]

29. If true, the British MOD have been keeping quiet about this fact.

Mr Blair is going to have some explaining to do. There is probably going to be a General Election in the UK within the next few months. Blair is known to want the campaign to centre on almost any subject but Iraq. Looks like he is going to be disappointed.

[LynnTheDem]

31. No they haven't been quiet about it. There was a HUGE fuss for days

about it. Hoon promised Parliament that the troops would be safe in Baghdad area.

You remember! He said they had an agreement with the insurgents; they'd each side shout warnings before firing.

Parliament & UK citizens do know UK troops were brought up to replace US troops temporarily.

UK troops head north to Baghdad
http://www.showmenews.com/2004/Oct/20041027News025.asp

Britain will move 850 top troops toward Baghdad
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20041022/news_1n22brit.html

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | British troops begin move north
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3957455.stm

BBC NEWS | UK | Difficult road ahead for British troops

So it is now official. Hundreds of British troops are to be moved to central Iraq to relieve US forces there. The first battalion of the Black Watch - about 850 soldiers in all - are set to move north from Basra to the Babil region close to Baghdad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3944369.stm

[daleo]

28. Maybe they were transporting ballot boxes full of votes

No big deal, they can make them up all over again.

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

32. WLIB News -- C130 Transport Plane down north of Baghdad

I was just listening to WLIB, Air America's flagship station in NYC. On its 11:00am news report, it reported that a C130 transport plane just went down north of Baghdad. There are no reports yet of casualties. That type of plane, however, can carry over 100 people. I have been unable to confirm this news anywhere on the internet.

UPDATE: It's a British C130. Here's an early report:

http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=982908&tw=wn_wire_story

[McKenzie]

33. think this is it here

http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=982908&tw=wn_wire_story

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

34. Thanks, i'll update!

[Red State Rebel]

35. Scared me to death - my BIL is flying C130's over there now

Whew!

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

37. No reports yet on casualties

[lebkuchen]

38. Balad is where a US military hospital is

Are we talking casualties from bombings in Baghdad being flown for treatment?

[leftchick]

40. I wondered that too...

~snip~

The RAF site said many are destined to remain in service for some years to come, although about half of the fleet have been replaced by the updated C-130J -- Hercules C4 and C5.


The site said the aircraft carries a crew of five or six and up to 92 or 128 troops, 64 paratroops, or 74 stretchers.

... it carries and awful lot of people and stretchers.

:(

[lebkuchen]

42. Since the UK rarely flies north but rather south....

Balad is where our injured are sent for treatment and then flown on a 5-1/2 hour flight to Landstuhl as needed.

CNNI just said that the plane was last reported to be 25 miles north of Baghdad. The UK isn't releasing any information other than wide-spread wreckage.

[AlCzervik]

41. i hope it was picking up and not dropping off

maybe if that was the case the plane was near empty.

[lebkuchen]

59. Looks like Bush's "resounding success" is about to be preempted

Iraq is collapsing around us. If you can't secure the roads and the airspace, the bases aren't going to be of much use.

[whatelseisnew]

43. unlikely transporting british troops

According to a BBC news headline report I just heard on the radio http://www.kpftx.org/pls/kpftxorg.pls

[lebkuchen]

45. W/tight security, manifests are likely well maintained

Interesting that we still don't know anything about this flight. Maybe Bush wants to give his little hurrah speech first before we hear the bad news.

[fedsron2us]

47. The fact they are being so tight lipped

suggests that there have been significant fatalities for the coalition.
This is going to take the shine off those election results.

[Scurrilous]

48. Bush knows something....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=3&u=/ap/20050130/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_plane_crash

<snip>

"In a television address congratulating Iraq on its elections Sunday, President Bush said "we also mourn the American and British military personnel who lost their lives today." He did not specify the number killed or that they died in the crash, but there were no other reports of major incidents involving British troops Sunday. An American Marine was killed in fighting Sunday in Anbar province."

[leftchick]

50. I saw that too...

expect the number of US dead to grow very high over night.

:(

[lebkuchen]

58. Maybe the UK C-130 was giving our soldiers a lift

since the roads were especially dangerous on election day.

PoodleBoy and MonkeyBoy are pathetic.

[lebkuchen]

49. Check out this John Simpson (BBC) video, traveling w/US troops

Very enlightening, especially when Simpson says that a year ago, the BBC could have made the journey through Central Iraq in a regular vehicle rather than with a military escort. What a terrible situation Bush has created for our soldiers, especially when you consider the lack of armored vehicles they've had to deal with for nearly two years.

It's the videofile on the right.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4184323.stm#

Based on this video, I think it's safe to assume they were transporting troops.

[Stella_Artois]

46. According to the BBC

A regular service operates from Basra to Baghdad, the BBC reporter said he used it last week himself.

Wether this was it, who knows. I don't know if the route would take them north of the capital or not. Unlikely i guess.

[Rose Siding]

51. BBC article here says they were headed to Balad.

snip> It was en route from Baghdad to the city of Balad, north-west of the capital, which houses one of the largest US airbases in Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4220649.stm

[lebkuchen]

52. After I'd watched the John Simpson video (above)

I realize that military convoys through central Iraq, at least, will become a thing of the past as the US loses more control to the freedom fighters. Now that cargo (troop) transport has become highly risky out of Baghdad International, I'll bet Rummy, Wolfie, Bush and Blair have made their last trips to Iraq. The freedom fighters will be gunning for planes at all hours of the day.

[0007]

53. Still no word?

junior and Blair are softening up the impact I think?

[pdxmom]

54. The fact that it has been hours and we're hearing nothing

doesn't feel good to me. I'm afraid this is going to be a very large number of losses. I think they're keeping it quiet as long as they can to continue with the big vote hype going on.

[0007]

66. 'Tis obvious

[Rose Siding]

56. Blair: British Plane Crash Claimed Lives -but no numbers given

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- A British C-130 military transport plane crashed Sunday north of Baghdad, scattering wreckage over a large area, officials said. Prime Minister Tony Blair said there were British deaths in the crash, but did not say how many.
...
Blair didn't give details of the British deaths, but paid tribute to the troops who died in the crash. "This country and the wider world will never forget them," he said in a televised speech praising the election.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-iraq-plane-crash,0,6680523.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[lebkuchen]

57. That is cruel and very controlling on Blair's part

Blair has no right to withhold information which is the public's right to know. He knows the numbers and should at least provide those. Families with loved ones in Iraq want numbers.

[Rainscents]

61. Blair is toast!!!

People are going to vote him out... I think they hold election either in March or April. I heard late last summer, Blair's own town where he grew up only support for him was around 33%. He is going to lose the election.

[lebkuchen]

65. Blair is preaching that we'll never forget them

We don't even know who they are (UK? US? Other?), how many, or what they were doing headed to Balad! These are questions the public has a right to know NOW, and Blair has this information.

Blair is playing God, as Bush so often does. The arrogance of our two countries' leaders has become intolerable.

[JoFerret]

72. And who is going to "win" then?

...in your considered opinion?

[Mr Creosote]

75. Sorry to disappoint you

but Blair will win, muchas i loathe the idea.

[Spazito]

60. The lack of casualty numbers and bush's mention of deaths...

of British and US troops today tells me the numbers of dead is high, very high.

It is telling that both US and Britain are mum on the numbers, they are trying to keep the tragedy from overshadowing the 'success' of the faux election, totally self-serving creeps as usual, imo.

[lebkuchen]

62. Exactly Spazito

Nothing is going to rain on their propaganda parade.

I'm wondering if the C-130 was transporting many of our soldiers back to Balad after they'd spent a day securing the polling places.

[daleo]

63. Yes, at least double figures

Probably lots more.

On edit - They probably want to hold off announcing a number for a day or two, so the "election day" is not mixed up in U.K./U.S. citizens minds as "the day the most troops were killed". They don't want to dilute their p.r. blitz of the happy election.

[Scurrilous]

69. They're holding off...

...until the families of those killed are notified. Or at least that's the official reason.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4220649.stm

<snip>

"Wing Commander Nigel Arnold of RAF Lyneham said they were in the process of contacting the families of those involved.

"Until that's done I am afraid we will not be releasing any details of the crew," he said.

"The welfare of these families is our priority at the moment."

He said it would also be wrong to speculate on the cause of the crash at this stage, but they would carrying out a thorough investigation."

<snip>

"The BBC's Clarence Mitchell said the weather in the region was fine and, given the good safety record of the plane, the "chances of it being hostile action against it are increasing."

[lebkuchen]

71. Nobody expects names of the deceased before notification of kin

Blair is allowing UK dead to be "poodled" on page five while Bush basks in his election adulation.

[daleo]

76. They could give a number.

A number doesn't identify anybody. The lack of a number just leads more people to worry longer than necessary. If they said "2 aircrew died" most families in the U.K. could breathe a sigh of relief. If they said "52 troops died", families could begin to prepare themselves for the grief to come. I don't see how uncertainty over a simple number helps anyone but the government.

[KoKo]

64. I thought that something was big when they rush announced the Chimp's

speech. Then he puts in British and US losses... I figured he was covering it up by doing an "unscheduled announcement."

Did you notice his smirk when he mentioned losses...he smirked through the whole thing actually...disgusting..

[Rainscents]

68. The lost is going to be BIG!

I can tell just by the way, our leader "chimp" is acting and look on his face, you can tell, he is hiding something.

[Zhade]

137. The wider the smirk, the greater the number of dead.

The traitor gets off on death, so his facial expressions while discussing vague death counts can be very telling.

[jmcgowanjm]

144. Yes, and he laughs at the wrong times

where no joke was told.


So, that's the bad news. The people the US invaded are
getting better at killing our kids, who were sent off to invade
Iraq for, well, we don't really know, do we? They are angry,
and rightly so. The people of Iraq know they did not do any of
the things Bush claimed they did to justify the war. Our
troops know it too. Our kids KNOW they are the villains, and
they have to fight that awareness while they fight the Iraqi
people, the climate, and the lack of supplies. The war cannot
be won because all the stated goals have been exposed
as deceptions. And your kids are stuck there, dying, not
because they can win, but because thay are just
"placeholders", holding open the door to the invasion of
Iran.

That's the bad news.

Kinda sucks, doesn't it?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/thebadnews.html

http://seetheforest.blogspot.com/2005_01_01_seetheforest_archive.html#110602238441114259

The only RAF C130s known to operate north of Baghdad are the "special duties" aircraft of 47 Sqn based at Lyneham.

Michael Smith Telegraph.co.uk

[DemonFighterLives]

67. Tony Blair was on TV

But I wasn't paying much attention. All I keep hearing is that the election went "better than expected". Wolfie now calling it an extraordinary day.
Do the brits bring their dead home as disrespectfully as the Chimp brings ours home? Under cover of darkness with no pictures. Something bad has happened in Iraq today. You can bet your bottom dollar that the news blackout is holding something back.

[Rainscents]

70. More they hide this story and it does finally leaks out...

people are NOT going to be happy. Especially the family members who lost their love ones.

[Halliburton]

73. Several Dead According to AFP

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050130/wl_afp/iraqbritaincrash&cid=1512&ncid=1480

[Cooley Hurd]

79. I guess that solves the argument - it was a troop-carrying C-130...

:(

[DemonFighterLives]

74. The truth always hurts more

These two knuckleheads that are supposed to be running our countries don't have a clue combined.
:dunce:

[daleo]

77. I think the British are actually pretty good about this.

Or they have been so far. No "middle of the night" stuff.

Historically, though, the British (and Canadians) have tended to bury their dead where they fell, and make arrangements with the country involved to ensure the graves are tended (google Commonwealth Graves Administration). In the case of Iraq they may not be doing this, since casualties haven't been that heavy yet.

But one of our British DUers might have better information.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

84. They come home now.

I believe our dead are being brought home in daylight.
Historically they were buried where they fell.

The Soldier by Rupert Brooke.

If I should die, think only this of me;
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.

And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.

My heart goes out to my fellow Brits and all the people who have died in this awful war.

[daleo]

117. Thanks, I had that poem in mind as well.

I could only recall the "foreign field that is forever England" part, though.

[fedsron2us]

118. This has only started in the last twenty years

As recently as the Falklands war they were still being buried where they died. I feel for the families of those killed today. It is terrible to lose a loved one in any conflict. It must be especially heartbreaking when you know that the politicians have sent them to die in a pointless war.

[twaddler01]

78. thanks for the update...

They might have numbers soon

[tlcandie]

80. Balad, Iraq info link ...

Maps and other info about it..

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/balad-ab.htm

[leftchick]

81. BULLSHIT: They are trying to hide the Deaths... update....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050130/ts_nm/iraq_plane_dc&cid=564&ncid=1480

CORRECTED: U.K. Deaths Confirmed in Iraq Plane Crash
Reuters - 5 minutes ago
Special Coverage


The C-130 Hercules transport plane involved in the crash can carry up to 92 troops, 64 paratroopers or military equipment.


Blair, in a statement on British television, did not say how many had died but President Bush (news - web sites) said both U.S. and British military personnel had lost their lives in the crash.


There had been no previous reports of U.S. deaths.

[DemReadingDU]

82. The Bad News

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/thebadnews.html

[Scurrilous]

83. Press: U.K. Crash in Iraq Kills 10

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=1&u=/ap/20050130/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_plane_crash

<snip>

"British C-130 military transport plane crashed Sunday north of Baghdad, scattering wreckage over a large area, officials said. At least 10 troops were killed, Britain's Press Association new agency said.

The crash occurred at around 5:25 p.m. about 20 miles northwest of Baghdad, a spokesman for the British Ministry of Defense.

Press Association quoted unidentified military sources saying the death toll was "around 10" and it was "highly unlikely" to be more than 15."

[fedsron2us]

85. Reuters report 15 British personnel dead

No mention of US casualties as yet.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=663761

On edit -

BBC News states

There are no British troops usually based in Balad and the purpose of the flight was unclear.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4220649.stm

[muriel_volestrangler]

86. latest state: at least 9 UK dead

deaths may be up to 15; Bush's wording seems to imply US troops could be involved too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4220649.stm

[mom cat]

87. Blair: Troops die in Iraq crash

Blair: Troops die in Iraq crash
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4220649.stm
It is not known if any survived after a Hercules plane crashed
A number of British soldiers died when a transport plane crashed in Iraq, Prime Minister Tony Blair has said.
Paying tribute to the troops killed, he said: "This country and the wider world will never forget them."

The C-130 Hercules based at RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire, crashed about 40 kilometres (25 miles) north west of Baghdad, the Ministry of Defence said.

It has not been revealed how many died in the crash, which happened at 1725 local time (1425 GMT).

The plane was en route from Baghdad to Balad, north-west of the capital, which houses one of the largest US airbases in Iraq.

[Charlie Brown]

88. "the wider world" will take no notice, Tony.

I wonder how Britons would react to the sheer apathy most Americans display to the non-American coalition casualties in Iraq. Whether about Danes, Egyptians, Australians, these deaths are only treated as sideshows by our media.

If Great Britain fully comprehended the apathy America displays when others put their lives on the line at our behest, I think the coalition would be minus one more member.

[pinto]

89. ouch, and true. apathy is on the march.....n/t

[UKCynic]

123. We care, until the next story comes along.

Except of course the families and the regiments of those who died or when the deaths are due to Americans shooting at us. Your people were responsible for killing almost all of our casualties in the first gulf war.

A fair proportion of British will be expecting to hear that this plane was brought down by Americans. Your forces are not highly regarded here.

Incidentally I think that Blair will win on May 5th, or whenever the election is. There is no credible opposition. What a world!

[malaise]

90. Which wider world

Look Tony you lied and sent people's children into that mess. It is on your conscience not mine. For the record I'm remembering the innocent Iraqis you idiots slaughtered in their own homes in their own country while you lied through you teeth. A thousand plagues on you and yours.

edit -sp.

[Algorem]

91. Any innocent people killed?

[patdem]

92. WHEN will he TELL how many? A NUMBER died..one-one hundred?

Blair does not know how many? Or is he just NOT saying? :grr:

[UKCynic]

125. You forget, this is not the USA

We don't have a constitution, or freedom of information (despite the recent act). If I am in a government office and I look out of the window and see that it is raining, I can't tell anyone without breaking the Official Secrets Act. Information is not a right in the UK.

[mom cat]

93. British C-130 Military Transport Plane Shot Down In Iraq (unconfirmed)

British C-130 Military Transport Plane Shot Down In Iraq
Jan 30, 2005
JUS News Desk

http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=101463&list=/home.php&

A British C-130 military transport plane crashed today north of Baghdad, a senior U.S. military officer said. There was no immediate word on casualties, but the official said the plane's wreckage was scattered over a large area.

The C-130, en route from Baghdad to the city of Balad, went down 25 miles northwest of Baghdad, said the official, who spoke only on condition of anonymity.

Helicopters were at the scene and observed the wreckage, the military official said. Bidies were apparentl;y strwen everywhere.

British Embassy spokeswoman Victoria Whitford said she could not confirm the report. In London, Britain's Ministry of Defense said it had no information about the plane.

[jhain]

10-15

still waiting for fallout from GB...poor families.

But, so much less than what I had expected.................. whew......have to grasp at something good at least once a day....

did anyone else notice CNN's new banners?:
Iraq:Transition of Power

Puh.

[mom cat]

Just glad it was not a full flight.

[muriel_volestrangler]

Whatever the reliability of the source, its a dupe

of http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1196661

[bluestateguy]

94. I believe jihadunspun is banned from LBN

It's kind of a crank website. American conservatives are not the only ones who use crank websites.

[Monkie]

95. it is said jihadunspun is cia n/t

[mom cat]

97. I just asked the mods to review and lock if they deem necessary.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

What a mod may have wanted to say on the delete but didn't...

[mom cat]

121. My sentiments exactly!

Where did you find that "smiley"? I guess that it is a smiley...it has two cheeks!

[mom cat]

101. Thanks for the insult.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mom cat]

109. You should get an awakening yourself about how to treat others.

I sincerely hope that you consider the possible impact of your derision before unleashing it again.

[DefenseLawyer]

107. The highly suspect MSNBC

is also reporting the crash http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6886612/ although no confirmation as to the cause.

[mom cat]

111. I'm so sorry to get the confirmation...Damn it. This sounds terrible

The fact that Tony Blair said that it is true sounds serious and the fact that it was a Reuters report.

[seriousstan]

98. ROVE!!!! He's everywhere.

[seriousstan]

96. JUS lololol You have GOT to be kidding.

I especially liked their story of giant spiders being sent by Allha to kill American troops.

[mom cat]

100. I don't know about spiders, but I sure stirred up a hornet's nest

:shrug:

[seriousstan]

102. No, you just gave me a great laugh.

[daleo]

103. I recall some marine talking about his "Jesus armor" in a U.S. report

People somtimes attribute the strangest things to their version of the creator of the universe.

[drummer55]

105. numbers released yet on how many were on the plane? n/t

[twaddler01]

Press: U.K. Crash in Iraq Kills 10

By CHRIS TOMLINSON, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A British C-130 military transport plane crashed Sunday north of Baghdad, scattering wreckage over a large area, officials said. At least 10 troops were killed, Britain's Press Association new agency said.

The crash occurred at around 5:25 p.m. about 20 miles northwest of Baghdad, a spokesman for the British Ministry of Defense.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050130/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_plane_crash

[DemoTex]

CNN reporting "up to 15" possibly killed.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.britishplane/index.html

[twaddler01]

i wonder how high it will go

:nuke:

[anarchy1999]

116. We will never know. Sorry.

n/t

Cover up/whitewash/ there are just some things the "people" don't need to know. Heard it somewhere, here or on a morning program.

Keep it in mind folks, there are just some things that "we" the people of our democracies, just don't need to know.

[seriousstan]

106. Thousands.....according to jihadunspun.

[mom cat]

Actually, they did not give a figure. Other sources have. I think

that you owe me an apology.

[LisaL]

It only carries a hundred people maximum.

I am not sure why you think it's a joke. The plane did crash, and possibly a lot of soldiers did die.

[qanda]

108. Laugh out loud funny!

eom

[mom cat]

Not a laughing matter.

[Dhalgren]

110. Jesus, take a breath!

If the story is bogus, it's bogus. Relax, we give credit where credit is due. If you don't believe a particular story or source just say so, there is no point to being rude out of hand.

[LisaL]

It's not bogus. The plane crashed, I heard it on CNN news.

[mom cat]

And the BBC

Blair: Troops die in Iraq crash
Blair: Troops die in Iraq crash

It is not known if any survived after a Hercules plane crashed
A number of British soldiers died when a transport plane crashed in Iraq, Prime Minister Tony Blair has said.
Paying tribute to the troops killed, he said: "This country and the wider world will never forget them."

The C-130 Hercules based at RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire, crashed about 40 kilometres (25 miles) north west of Baghdad, the Ministry of Defence said.

It has not been revealed how many died in the crash, which happened at 1725 local time (1425 GMT).

The plane was en route from Baghdad to Balad, north-west of the capital, which houses one of the largest US airbases in Iraq.

:cry:

[mom cat]

113. Thanks. I just wish it were bogus.

[Dhalgren]

129. Acually I was addressing #110 to the jerk who was being so

rude to you. Anyone can question any report, but they aught not to attack the poster. Thanks for posting, I'm glad the poster attacking you was deleted....

[mom cat]

160. You might also appreciate another reply:

Tom Yossarian Joad (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-01-70 12:00 AM
Original message
What a mod may have wanted to say on the delete but didn't...





Sorry, the visual does not copy...check it out.
Anyway, thanks for helping put a lid on unnecessary rudeness.

[drummer55]

112. we actually gained troops according to fox news.

[Rex]

1. they fight with the Sword of the Lord!

Those Fox news freedom lovers!

[anarchy1999]

114. Whoops, not a good day for "Democracy in Iraq" . Contrary to what

is being broadcast here in the good "ole US of A". God Bless us all!

How did it happen? Just another "accident", or was it a well aimed missile?

No news on deaths, injuries, how many were on the plane, NOTHING!

[twaddler01]

115. will we ever know?

:shrug:

[daleo]

119. We still haven't heard much about the 31 killed in the helicopter crash

As far as I know, there has been no definitive cause given for that crash either. But two crashes of large aircraft inside a week tells me someone has acquired a new weapon, or learned how to use an old one. Just an educated guess.

[spanone]

124. We've heard almost nothing about the 31 deaths and this story

first appeared on the web this morning and the Guardian still has no information on ANY injuries or casualties. This makes me very suspicious.

[torque]

127. The Helicopter was shot down by a SAM missile

32 died.

[Zynx]

132. Might have been SAS on the C-130

That would explain the total lack of details.

[Zhade]

138. SAS?

NT!

[Zynx]

158. Special Air Service - British SpecOps

The only thing they have to do with "air" is jumping out of planes, shooting people from them, or blowing them up.

[Zhade]

163. Oh, okay. Thanks for the info.

NT!

[theHandpuppet]

126. Update from the BBC....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4220649.stm

Nine UK troops die in Iraq crash
The plane crashed north west of Baghdad en route to Balad


At least nine British soldiers died when a transport plane crashed in Iraq.

Prime Minister Tony Blair paid tribute to the troops killed, saying: "This country and the wider world will never forget them."

The C-130 Hercules based at RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire, crashed about 40 kilometres (25 miles) north west of Baghdad, the Ministry of Defence said.

The final death toll from the crash, which happened at 1725 local time (1425 GMT), may rise to 15, say sources.

The plane was en route from Baghdad to Balad, north-west of the capital, which houses one of the largest US airbases in Iraq.

MORE... (includes map and phone # for concerned relatives)

BTW, article also states that the chances the plane was downed by hostile action are increasing.

[KoKo]

128. Why would you fly that big a plane with only 15 passengers? In a war

zone...a transport carrier?

It's War Time...and the real news about this is being covered up because of the Iraqi Vote.

We know there are more troops...but there's no WAY they will let this out...because we are to be fed "Iraqi's Vote!" 24/7 for the next week to prove that the Chim and his Evil Twin Blair WERE RIGHT ON IRAQ...

And Condi SMILES...AND PNAC SINGS....AND THE WORLD IS BETTER BECAUSE SADDAM IS GONE! Repeat this OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER...

MILLIONS DIED...BECAUSE SADDAM LIED...

AMERICA IS GREAT/GREAT BRITAIN IS GREAT! LONG LIVE THE KING! :puke: say the "commoners." :puke:

[theHandpuppet]

130. Well, logically speaking....

You'd fly a huge transport plane if you were on your way to pick up cargo or passengers. This kind of plane might have been equipped to transport wounded, as it could accomodate scores of troops and stretchers. Had the plane already picked up its passengers the loss of life would have been MUCH worse.

[TheWraith]

139. Also, it may have been a supply flight.

You wouldn't be carrying a lot of guys if you were already carrying a load of cargo. That said, they're still being incredibly vague on the details. It makes me suspicious that a lot of troops did get killed, and they're trying to bury it, or at least keep it away from their 'Iraqi elections' news cycle.

[Stella_Artois]

143. Because thats what the RAF has

They only have 2 transport aircraft in frontline service, the other one is bigger.

[TahitiNut]

133. That's 15 UK troops; doesn't count the American personnel on board

According to Bush* et. al., there were American troops on board, too.

[theHandpuppet]

134. Didn't watch Bush today...

Just seeing his face on the tube turns my stomach! Whenever he comes on I turn the channel or turn off the TV.

Did he really say they were also *American* casualties? I haven't seen confirmation of that anywhere.

[TahitiNut]

135. Xinhuanet and VOA

BEIJING, Jan. 31 -- A British military transport plane has crashed north-west of the Iraqi capital Baghdad.

Military sources have said as many as 15 British military servicemen died in the crash.

If confirmed, it would be the biggest single loss of life suffered by British forces in Iraq.

The Defence Ministry in London said it was investigating what caused the C-130 Hercules plane to come down without giving any details.

US President George W. Bush said that American military personnel had also been on board.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-01/31/content_2529242.htm

---

President Bush(tard) also spoke of the incident, saying he mourns the American and British military personnel who died on Sunday.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-01-30-voa38.cfm

[daleo]

136. There may have been Americans killed elsewhere

So it is possible Bush isn't referring to the plane crash here. But, the fact that the phrases "at least", "as many as", etc. are being used makes me wonder what all is being withheld.

[foreigncorrespondent]

149. And Australia has their first fatality in this one!

Australian airman dies in Iraq crash

A Victorian man serving with Britain's Royal Air Force has become the first Australian serviceman killed in the Iraq war.

Flight Lieutenant Paul Pardoel, 35, who was born in Colac, was married with three young children. He was the navigator aboard an RAF Hercules that crashed north of Baghdad, killing up to 15.

Mr Pardoel's death came as more than 8 million Iraqis turned out to vote in Iraq's historic election on Sunday, despite insurgent attacks claiming 35 lives.

More (link also includes a picture of Flight Lieutenant Pardoel with his wife on their wedding day)... http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/01/31/1107020331830.html?oneclick=true

I know this is Australia's first fatality in the war for oil, but I am hoping that these idiots who voted Howard back in might actually wake the hell up and realize it isn't a game being played out in Baghdad!

[Pert_UK]

140. Fuck you Mr Blair....Fuck you very much...........

Another 15 dead in an illegal war for no good reason

:mad:

[ausiedownunderground]

141. First officially reported OZ soldier killed aboard C-130

Mainstream News in OZ covering first official death of OZ soldier in Iraq War. Big news here in OZ. Soldier killed aboard C-130 or C130J. Plane being reported to have been "Shot Down" as it flew from Baghdad to the US's biggest air base in Iraq at Balad. Reports here are saying the plane was full of troops from all the "coalition of the willing" countries. But of course we don't really count! OZ forces have actually lost 5, but like all the media in Anglo-Saxon countries most people will never know or even care!
Following the "Shoot down" of the US marines helo last week in Al Anbar it looks like Putin's "IGLAS's" have arrived! These Manpad's are basically unstoppable by any current countermeasures the US Airforce has. If these things start arriving in large numbers like the "Stinger's" did in Afghanistan then "The Bush Gang" won't be smirking for to long!

[DemonFighterLives]

142. Sorry to hear about the Aussie or Aussies

And sorry for the Brits as well. Our illegal administration knows not what it does.
:grouphug:

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

145. Ten Missing, Thought Dead, in UK Iraq Plane Crash

By Paul Majendie

LONDON (Reuters) - Ten British military personnel are missing, believed dead, after Sunday's crash of a UK transport plane in Iraq, Defense Secretary Geoff Hoon said on Monday.

Confirming Britain's biggest loss of life since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Hoon said nine Royal Air Force personnel and one soldier were "missing, believed killed" in the Iraqi election day crash.

Among the victims was Australia's first casualty of the Iraq war -- a former Australia Air Force member who had joined Britain's Royal Air Force.

Wreckage from the C-130 Hercules aircraft was strewn over a wide area when it plunged into the desert 20 miles northwest of Baghdad, prompting defense experts to speculate it could have been hit by insurgents.

More:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=2&u=/nm/20050131/ts_nm/iraq_plane_dc

[IndianaGreen]

146. There was speculation last night about their mission on CNN International

That the Brits never operate that far North in Iraq, and that the plane was heading to an exclusive US base in Balad. The speculation centers that the plane was part of a secret SAS operation.

[Stella_Artois]

148. On BBC radio this morning

A journo said he was on this aircraft last week as it went from Basra to Baghdad. He had to go there to renew is press accreditation. He said that the aircraft left Baghdad and made an unexpected stop at Balad for reasons unknown. He didn't say who/what got on/off, or why.

[DemonFighterLives]

147. Thanks for the update

It seems like the deadliest incident for the Brits and the same for the US happened within a week. If the Brits are now believing it was a missile, will the US come out with their "crash" info.
My heart goes out to the British and the Australian who died in this incident.

[sabra]

150. Militants claim downing of British plane in Iraq

<<SNIP>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6886612/

Militants claim downing of British plane in Iraq

Transport crash leaves at least 10 servicemen deadThe Associated Press
Updated: 7:27 a.m. ET Jan. 31, 2005

LONDON - In a statement posted on an Islamic Web site, the Iraqi militant group Ansar al-Islam claimed responsibility for Sunday’s downing the plane north of Baghdad which reportedly killed about 10 servicemen. The statement’s authenticity could not be immediately confirmed.

The group claimed its fighters tracked the aircraft, “which was flying at a low altitude, and fired an anti-tank missile at it.”

The plane went down hours after polls closed in Iraq while flying from Baghdad to the town of Balad.

“Thanks be to God, the plane was downed and a huge fire and black clouds of smoke were seen rising from the location of the crash,” said the statement posted Sunday.

Britain’s foreign minister said Monday that the downing of the C-130 military transport was the biggest single loss of British lives since the start of the Iraq war.

<</SNIP>>

[Az_lefty]

151. they downed it with an anti-tank missle????

that was one lucky shot.

[MADem]

153. BIG DEVELOPMENT, MOMENTS AGO

The attackers FILMED IT. AND RELEASED THE VIDEO--I just saw it on TV. They used a HOME-MADE launch mechanism, the explosion was fucking ENORMOUS, the fireball HUGE, the wreckage spread about. They were able to get close enough in to film the wreckage, too.

WTF????????????

[Az_lefty]

154. Wow, this sounds like a complete security failure.

they had to be set-up in advance and knew the filght time and route.

[jayfish]

157. Yep, The Mujahideen Have Resorted To...

filming their attacks in order to counter the occupiers propaganda and show that they can be successful against the Sovie... oh wait wrong war.

jay

[cthrumatrix]

159. shrub plans to talk to the mericans about this in his SOU -- NOT

[SKKY]

155. Al Jazeera just released the video...

...now my question is this, how did they get it so quick?

[jayfish]

156. What's Your Point?

Lemmie take a guess "AJ is in league the the terraists"?

Jay

[SKKY]

168. My point is just that, how do they get these videos so quick...

...Was is a difficult question? Did I mention anything about terrorists/terrorism? Hmmm? Jay? You probably should read too much into things.

[soaky]

162. hercules are big and slow

would be easier to hit than other aircraft

[Spazito]

152. They are still using 'weasel' words regarding the numbers...

of dead. 'around', 'up to', etc. This tells me there is more to come. I am wondering if the Brits have been given orders not to release numbers that would include any US dead so the Brits are trying to report their dead without completely lying.

They are definitely hiding something, imo. Very strange and leads me to also think the mission of this aircraft was secret.

[NYC]

161. Have there been any updates?

I'm still looking for information on this.

[Stella_Artois]

170. Names of dead released

The nine RAF men feared killed are:

- Sqn Ldr Patrick Marshall, 39

- Flt Lt David Stead, 35

- Flt Lt Andrew Smith, 25

- Flt Lt Paul Pardoel, 35

- Master Engineer Gary Nicholson, 42

- Ch Tech Richard Brown, 40,

- Flt Sgt Mark Gibson, 34

- Sgt Robert O'Connor, 38

- Cpl David Williams, 37.


The tenth man, Acting L/Cpl Steven Jones, 25, served with the Royal Signals.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4226213.stm

[lebkuchen]

171. All relatively older men

When one looks at the US list of dead, most range from 19-25.

[Scurrilous]

173. Link w/ short bios of the deceased:

http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/casualties.htm

[Herkdrvr]

165. A few corrections on the record

I've noticed a few errors in some of the posts, and I guess it was just bugging me, so here I go:

The aircraft in question was a C-130J (not sure if it was a slick J or a J-30).

While the video that was released suggests the C-130 was shot down (it very well could have been...my guess is it probably was), the video is a cut and paste edit job and there isn't any way to officially verify its authenticity until it's looked into. The object I saw on the film looked more like a Russian-made IR missile (can't tell from that short of a frame whether it was a SA-7, -14 or other variant).

While the various versions of the Herk can carry in excess of 100 passengers (pax for short), they rarely do carry that many, mostly due to performance considerations, pax/cargo mix and, surprisingly, the number of seats with seatbelts available (C-130H can theoretically carry nearly 100 pax, but is limited to 64 due to the seat layout).

The RAF does operate throughout the country, and while the bulk of its operations are in the southern portion of the country and other Arab nations, they make regular runs to the various other airfields as well.

Brits and Aussies fly on US aircraft, and US personnel can fly on UK and RAAF aircraft. All of that is managed by AMD (Air Mobility Division) at USCENTAF (U.S. Central Command Air Forces). Since all participating nations are part of a coalition, inter-operability occurs often.

Ground fire is a fact of life flying into airfields that may have hostile forces nearby. Missiles and RPGs, while not extremely common, are fired on occassion at aircraft ranging from C-130s to even C-5s. All aircraft are appropriately equipped and crews trained to deal with the threats...although everyone fears the "golden BB"...that one lucky shot. But I would not categorize flying in the area as insane, overly risky, or suicidal.

As for the reasons of why only 15 deaths, C-130s primarily are used to move pallets, not personnel (although they do carry personnel as well, just cargo is more common). Often as room allows, some personnel can be added in addition to any cargo pallets. And it's not too uncommon for an aircraft to be flying empty after downloading cargo.

[Scurrilous]

166. Thanks for the info...

...welcome to DU!

[Herkdrvr]

167. No problem!

I'm a stickler to staying with facts, and I just saw alot of rumors being thrown about based off of inaccurate info. Having flown C-130s, it kinda bugged me!

[T_J]

177. C-130K

The aircraft was a C-130K. This was not a J model.

[yellowcanine]

172. Seems as if a lot of aircraft are going down in Iraq recently. Do you

suppose the "insurgents" have figured out something and the "coalition" forces haven't adjusted yet? We are at about the same stage in Iraq as the Soviets were in Afghanistan when they started losing lots of helicopters and planes to stinger missiles.

[dandrhesse]

174. it is "interesting" at the least that this happens only days after one of

our helicopters "crashed". One that was quoted as never having any problems or prior crashes reportedly. My step brother was in the Air force as a plane frame repair guy during the build up to Desert Storm and while there was supposedly nothing going on in Nicaragua. He told us that for nothing going on there sure have been a lot of bullet holes in the planes coming back from South America. We are never told what is going on, I just think to "crashes" within a couple days of craft that are both described as "work horses" is very "unusual".

[yellowcanine]

175. And there is also the "accident" while going too fast for conditions to

avoid enemy fire - which I think should be classified as resulting from combat rather than an "accident" though I don't believe it usually is. If a plane flies low and fast or takes off and climbs steeply to elude potential missiles it is more prone to crashing. That is a fact.

[Herkdrvr]

176. Iraq is not becoming Afghanistan

Not to get into specifics, our aircrews and aircraft are much better trained and equipped to deal with and defeat the IR missile threat posed in Iraq. Again, not to get into specifics, but it WAS a UK C-130. They do things differently than we do, and their aircraft use different defensive systems as well.

The IR missile threat has been around in Iraq since Day 1...it's not like this threat just popped out of nowhere. Again, can't get into specifics, but this crash was more the result of a lucky shot than anything else.

As for the CH-53E accident, dust storms can be very localized over there, and reduce visibility to near zero...I've seen it myself and had to divert to another airfield because of one...when I checked the weather 30 minutes out it was clear, and when I started my approach I could see the dust cloud and a passing C-130 told me the vis was down to 1/4 mile...end of that approach.

Helicopters in particular are prone to these "storms" (not really a storm, more like dust clouds whipped up by high winds) because they often fly low to the ground and with reduced visibility, it becomes hard to judge your altitude. We've lost a number of helicopters to that situation...not just in Iraq, but in general. I lost two good friends of mine because they flew into an area with low visibility and flew their Huey into the ground.

Despite the CH-53 being a "workhorse", a pilot can still kill himself and his crew in it.