* interview with Brian Lamb, 8 & 11PM est, CSPAN

[paineinthearse]

http://www.cspan.org/

C-SPAN EXCLUSIVE
Interview With Pres. Bush
This Sunday's Q&A at 8pm ET & 11pm ET on C-SPAN features an exclusive interview with Pres. George W. Bush from the Map Room of the White House. Immediately following the interview, we have a roundtable discussion with reporters & presidential historians about the President's remarks.

Can be watched on demand, go to http://www.cspan.org/ then click on link top-center of the page.

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PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

RECORD DATE: Thursday, January 27, 2005

LOCATION: Map Room, The White House

C-SPAN Interviewer: Brian Lamb

AIR DATE: Sunday, January 30, 2005 at 8 PM ET

C-SPAN SERIES TITLE: "Q and A"

Running Time: 23:30

Copyrighted material: use with attribution only

Copyright C-SPAN 2005

Media Contacts:

Peggy Keegan: 202-626-8797
Shelly Siders: 202-626-8904
Peter Kiley: 202-626-4874

INTERVIEW OF PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH
BY C-SPAN’s Brian Lamb

The Map Room, The White House

3:35 P.M. EST, January 27, 2005

Producer’s note: Over the past two weeks, the White House has granted interviews to more than 15 national and international news organizations and held a nationally-televised press conference to set the stage for President Bush’s second term. Since the president has recently answered numerous questions about the war in Iraq and his major domestic policy priorities, particularly social security, our intent was to direct our interview toward broader themes, including the development of the president’s governing philosophies.


BRIAN LAMB, C-SPAN: Mr. President, how important was this inaugural speech to you?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, first, I was happy to be giving it. (Laughter.) Secondly, I was able to plant a flag -- plant the flag of freedom as more than policy, a firm belief in the -- of our country. Freedom is not a political movement, necessarily, I think freedom is an overarching concept, and is universal. And it was an important speech. This is one that, because it was the second speech, I was able to be an observer, as well as speaker. So I was able to not only give what I think is an important speech, but one -- and I was able to take in all the sights and sounds at the same time. It was a great moment.

It's a speech that says freedom is universal and powerful and necessary, if we want our children to live in peace, and it also recognizes that we can't do this alone; we've got to work with others; that not everybody is going to look like America, and shouldn't; that this is the work of generations, and that in order for us to lead the world and call others to make the world more free, we, ourselves, have to be as free as we can be at home.

LAMB: Can you remember when freedom and liberty, those two expressions, first became kind of the -- your backbone, your philosophical --

THE PRESIDENT: You know, I think if I had to have a mentor, a public figure that reminded me on a regular basis about the power of freedom and liberty, it would have been Ronald Reagan. He was a stalwart when it came to proclaiming as clearly as possible the need for people to be free.

I can't think of any great musings or writings that inspired me as a teenager, or somebody as young as that to believe in freedom. I think it's probably just ingrained in me by my mother and father, who, they, themselves, are great believers in freedom.

LAMB: You were a history major.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, sir.

LAMB: At Yale.

THE PRESIDENT: I was.

LAMB: What kind of history?

THE PRESIDENT: American history.

LAMB: Did you have a particular period in American history that you --

THE PRESIDENT: I did. I was fascinated by the Roosevelt era, Franklin Roosevelt, probably because my teachers were -- I had a teacher that was so good in the Roosevelt era.


LAMB: You know, after -- around your speech, there were little nuggets dropped here and there that you had read the Natan Sharansky book --

THE PRESIDENT: Right.

LAMB: And that he came to visit.

THE PRESIDENT: He did.

LAMB: I've got a copy here. You know everybody -- we do a lot of books. People scramble for these when Presidents say things about them. How did you get this book in the first place?

THE PRESIDENT: A friend of mine named Tom Bernstein, from New York, who is very much involved in different human rights movements, came to know Sharansky over time. And when Sharansky wrote the book, Tom sent me some galleys from the book and suggested I read it. Of course I said, well, I don't know if Bernstein's got good advice or not. I'd heard of Natan Sharansky, but I'd never really read much of what he had written. I had met him -- I think I'd met him, pretty confident I'd met him when I went to Israel in 1998. But beyond that, I didn't realize he was a writer. And so I started reading the galleys. It really caught my attention. I found it to be a very, very interesting book.

LAMB: When did you decide you wanted to meet with him?

THE PRESIDENT: You know, Brian, I think I told somebody that the book was a really good book -- Bernstein, as a matter of fact, was the guy. The guy who gave me the galleys told me that Sharansky was in town. And he was promoting the book. And I said, well, let's find him, let's get him to come by and say, hello. Interestingly enough, he's with the brother of the Mayor of Miami Beach, Florida, who helped write the book. He's got his name on the front of the book with Sharansky.

LAMB: Ron Dermer.

THE PRESIDENT: Dermer, yes. Mayor Dermer is his brother.

LAMB: What's interesting, you said --

THE PRESIDENT: I knew Mayor Dermer because he was a -- happened to be a Democrat mayor supporting my candidacy for the presidency. And so kind of had the full circle deal.

LAMB: It's interesting that you should say, "Ronald Reagan," because there's a story right -- boom, you open the book, and it's when Ronald Reagan was in Geneva with Gorbachev.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes.

LAMB: And Sharansky's wife was picketing, and Ronald Reagan turned to Gorbachev and said, "You can keep saying that Sharansky is an American spy, but my people trust that woman. And as long as you keep him and other political prisoners locked up, we will not be able to establish a relationship of trust." And when I read it, I thought to myself, you go back to your inaugural speech, and it connects with what you say you have to do as the leader of the world -- free world. Tell us how you -- what you want to do, based on your inaugural speech, in the next four years, to bring about what your goal is?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, interesting that you brought that up, because it kind of confirms what I believe is necessary. I think you can be an idealist and a realist at the same time. And we have a war to fight and win. It's a very different kind of war. It's a different kind of confrontation that President Reagan would be confronted with. And in that war, we have to work with all kinds of countries. So that's the realistic part of my job, how do we work with a country that may not honor women's rights like they should.

On the other hand, as a result of engaging that war, it does give me a chance to speak candidly with leaders just like Ronald Reagan did, in terms of, as I said in my speech -- you free people -- you'll have a partner to walk with, and remind them that we're very serious about this. Now I'm mindful that societies don't change on a dime. And there's resistance, obviously -- if you're in power, you're not going to be interested in giving up power. And people are able to say, well, -- all the Americans want everybody to look like America. There's a lot of hurdles that have to be crossed.


But the American President can help by fashioning policy that constantly speaks to the reformers and those who want to be free, and constantly reminding leaders about the importance of the relationship. And the President said -- President Reagan there said, if you expect to have good relations. Well, that's exactly what my inaugural speech said.

LAMB: Is there ever a case where if somebody won't change their policy, you'd walk away from them as an ally or a friend or somebody you're dealing with?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, it never has happened yet. For example, I think about Pakistan. That's a country that's come a long way. President Musharraf has shown great leadership. He had made many of the choices himself. But I can remember talking to him early on in my presidency about the need for good education policy to help counteract some of the propaganda that was being taught in some of his schools. He agreed. He introduced me to his education minister. We have since spent some money to help with the curriculum that is -- well, really help the children of Pakistan.

There's an example of progress being made, and I think it's -- the President has to be realistic about the strides being made in a certain society, based upon its histories and traditions. But every meeting I have, I'm constantly talking about the need to move forward with a reform agenda toward freedom.

LAMB: What role have books played in your presidency?

THE PRESIDENT: You know, there's a -- I ended my convention speech in 2000, and one of the debates, with a phrase by a great Texan named Tom Lea, who wrote the definitive book on the King Ranch, but is a painter -- was a painter, and one of the paintings now hangs in the Oval Office. He said, "Sarah and I live on the east side of the mountain; the sunrise side, not the sunset side; the side to see the day that is coming, not to see the day that has gone." That's a very optimistic view. See, I see a better day coming.

It turns out that the President better have seen the day that has gone in order to be able to help lead to the day that is coming. In other words, history really matters for the President. And so I read a lot of history books. I'm reading the Washington book by Ellis right now. I read the Hamilton book by , which I thought was a fascinating book. I can't remember all the books I read, but I do read a lot of books. And from that, I'm able to gain a better appreciation of where we're going.

For example, the Hamilton book I thought was a very interesting history of how hard it was to get democracy started, in some ways. And yet here we are in Iraq, trying to help them get democracy started, and yet it's expected to be done nearly overnight. And so it helps me keep a perspective of what's real and what's possible, and some of the struggles we went through.


Admittedly, we're dealing with different technologies than, obviously, in the old days. But, nevertheless, it's hard for democracy to take hold. And I think that history gives me a kind of -- it helps me better explain and understand exactly what we're seeing. And that's important for a policymaker to be able to grasp the realities of the situation based upon some historical lessons.


You know, I spent a lot of time talking about the Japanese after World War II, about how they were the sworn enemy, my dad fought them; I'm sure you've had relatives that know people that fought the Japanese. And yet today, because we insisted that Japan become a democracy, they're now our best friend, or one of our best friends. And that's an interesting history lesson, that 60 years after being a sworn enemy, we're now tight allies in leading the cause of freedom and peace, working together to deal with North Korea. Japan is helping a lot in Iraq.It just shows the power of freedom to change an enemy to a friend. That's something you learn from history books.

LAMB: How much reading do you do a day, and what time of day do you read?

THE PRESIDENT: I read, oh, gosh, I'd say, 10, maybe, different memoranda prepared by staff.

LAMB: What about books?

THE PRESIDENT: I'm reading, I think on a good night, maybe 20 to 30 pages. I'm exercising quite hard these days, and I get up very early. And so the book has become somewhat of a sedative. I mean, maybe there are some other old guys like me who get into bed, open the book, 20 pages later you're out cold. But I read a lot on the weekends. I'm traveling -- when I travel a lot I get a chance to read. I'm downing quite a few books.


By the way, in this job, there are some simple pleasures in life that really help you cope. One is Barney the dog, and the other is books. I mean, books are a great escape. Books are a way to get your mind on something else.

LAMB: You told a group here in the White House, I think in May of 2004, that every day you read Oswald Chambers. You say, "I read him every morning. He helps me understand how far I am on my walk."

THE PRESIDENT: That was last year I read Oswald. I read him every other year. And Oswald Chambers was one of the great Christian thinkers, a very -- his writings are very provocative, I think. The easier it is to understand what he writes, I think, the more understanding of religion a person becomes. And that's what I meant by that. It's an interesting gauge. This year I'm reading -- last year I read Oswald Chambers every day, and this year I'm reading the Bible every day.

LAMB: Can I ask you about indecency? You've got an opportunity to appoint a new chairman of the Federal Communications Commission. Michael Powell is leaving, and you might have other appointments; you have five commissioners. And one of the big issues moving around Capitol Hill is indecency. And I want to ask you, how far do you think government should go in telling people who use the airwaves, the broadcast stations, what can be said?

THE PRESIDENT: As a free speech advocate, I often told parents who were complaining about content, you're the first line of responsibility; they put an off button the TV for a reason. Turn it off. I do think, though, that there can be a -- that government can, at times, not censor, but call to account programming that gets over the line. The problem, of course, is the definition "over the line."

My answer would be, if I were interviewing an FCC chairman, please tell me where the line is, and make sure you protect the capacity of people to speak freely in our society, but be willing to -- if things get too far, call them to account. I think Michael did a good job of balancing that.

LAMB: There is a bill that if it were passed on Capitol Hill would up the fees, up the fine from $27,000 for using bad language, for instance, to $500,000 as a maximum fee.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, they're going to collect a lot of money when some of these TV shows are still on.

LAMB: But is that -- I mean, at what point, though, do you have somebody that says, that word can't be used, but that word can be used?

THE PRESIDENT: No, I understand. Look, it's the old -- the classic definition of the Supreme Court -- by the Supreme Court on pornography, you know it when you see it. I think that was Judge Potter Stewart who said that.

Look, we are a great society because we're a free society. On the other hand, it is very important for there to be limits, limits to what parents have to explain to their children. Nevertheless, I do want to repeat what I said earlier -- the parent's first responsibility is to pay attention to what their children listen to, whether it be rock songs or movies or TV shows.

LAMB: How much TV do you watch?

THE PRESIDENT: Not much.

LAMB: What do you watch when you are?

THE PRESIDENT: Sports. I really don't watch much TV. Of course, C-SPAN. What am I thinking?

LAMB: I bet your mother …

THE PRESIDENT: Yes. I really -- I get to work early. Early is 6:50 to 7:00 o’clock in the morning. And I'm pretty much busy until I wander back over here to the Residence, generally about 5:30 (p.m.) or so. This evening I'm going to exercise for an hour, and then that gets me into the dinner. And after dinner I'll read and go to bed. It's not a very glamorous social life, I might add, but nevertheless, I'm not a glamorous social person.

LAMB: The longer you're in this White House, with all those that have gone before you, do you see ghosts of past Presidents?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I quit drinking in '86. (Laughter.)


LAMB: I mean, do you feel the history of the place?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, it's interesting. I’ve tried to empathize, at times, with Lincoln, to imagine what it would be like to be the President of the United States when the country was at war with itself. I think he's the country's greatest President. His portrait hangs in the Oval Office. I think that because he had such a clear vision about keeping this country united, in spite of the incredibly divisive times in which we lived. He seemed to have a good spirit about him. But it's just really hard to project back into somebody else's shoes. So, no, I guess I don't see ghosts.

LAMB: Your dad -- do you talk much about the presidency with him?

THE PRESIDENT: Not really. It may come as a surprise to you. I like to check in with him. I love to hear his voice. I know he loves to hear mine, and he likes to ask about this trip where you saw so and so, or, how'd that go, particularly when I've been overseas. But we really haven't gotten to the stage yet where we're sharing common experiences in the White House, although there's kind of knowingness about our positions. I mean, the campaign, he doesn't need to tell me how tired I am, or ask me how tired I am, because he knows; he did the same thing I did.

LAMB: Planning at all for where you're going to put your library?

THE PRESIDENT: We'll be doing that soon. And not only where we'll put it, but what it will comprise, how do we make sure that there's interesting thought that comes out of the library -- it's not just a collector of interesting artifacts, but in fact, hopefully good thought will come out of there, because the library will cause there to be a dialogue, it will advance higher education or secondary education in some way.

And so the process -- this is a long process. The library will be in Texas. I want to be very thoughtful about who we approach, and give everybody a chance that's interested to come up with a -- their best shot at attracting it. So we're working through some of the legal -- we want to make sure we understand fully the legal obligations so that when we start approaching universities or cities or whoever we approach, that there's a -- that everybody understands the ground rules.

LAMB: And do you have a historian anywhere around you following your days and cataloging --

THE PRESIDENT: No, that's an interesting question. I do not. I really, in some ways, wish that were the case. But, unfortunately, there are a lot of security matters, particularly given the nature of the war we're in, that just -- I don't think the government would have felt comfortable allowing an observer to record.

Fortunately, a lot of my life is documented now. I mean, this interview, for example, somebody will be going through the Bush records and see that George W. sat down with Brian Lamb, and we had a 40 minute interview, or whatever it was, on this day, at this time. That will be a part of the record. Obviously, the transcript of this interview will be a part of the record. Most interviews I do there is a stenographer that is recording what is said. So all that will be of record. The content of phone calls will ultimately be made record. When I call a foreign leader, there's an understanding that somebody is listening to the conversation. And so that will be -- I'm not sure what the time frame is. That will be made available for the records.

So there's a lot of what goes on being recorded. What's not being recorded is someone saying to me, well, gosh, how did Lamb look, and how was his interview, was he on his game; kind of the observer recording my thoughts and recollections.

LAMB: Last question. A lot of people said, if you really want to understand Ronald Reagan, you have to go to the ranch. He spent 345 days in eight years there. You spent, according to Mark Knoller of CBS, who keeps tabs of this, something like 297 days at your ranch.

THE PRESIDENT: Right.

LAMB: Do we have to go to the ranch to find out who George W. Bush is?

THE PRESIDENT: I think you've got to go to Texas, and the ranch is a good place to go. You know, I like working out of the ranch. What Knoller didn't tell you was, was that I'd go to the ranch and then travel from the ranch. And one of the interesting things that's happened is, is that world leaders like to come to the ranch. So we've had interesting summits there. I guess, I don't know, maybe 10 or so world leaders. But beyond-- I think if you were to go there --

LAMB: Are you different there?

THE PRESIDENT: You know, I hope not. I'm certainly more relaxed there. The campaign was a tough campaign, and any campaign is tough. There's a certain tension that kind of just creeps into your body that's hard to get rid of. I got rid of it at the ranch. When I came out of there after the campaign, we traveled -- we went down to Chile right after -- President Clinton's library, and then went down to Chile and back, and then we had a series of Christmas -- went to the ranch for Thanksgiving, but then we had a series of Christmas events, and it was quite a festive time. And we had the whole family at Camp David, with the exception of brother Jeb's family, and brother Jeb. And so I still hadn't gotten rid of the campaign. I mean, it wasn't out of my muscles. I felt some tension that I developed during the course of the campaign. And I went to the ranch, and when I came out of there this time around, I felt great, I felt like a new man.

LAMB: Now, do you feel better than you've ever felt now that you don't have to campaign any more for President? I mean, you look like you've been through about 20 interviews, one after another, and a press conference.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, this -- I can't tell whether that means I'm looking good or looking haggard. But nevertheless, it's -- I feel pretty good. I feel as fit as I've been in a while, and my spirits are high. You know, we've got a lot to do. The Iraq elections are coming up -- or today, Sunday. I'm asking the Congress to reform Social Security.

So there are some big things ahead. I think it may be in my DNA, though, that I believe in trying to solve big problems, and to leave behind a better world. And, therefore, there's really no rest. I mean, there's a constant series of challenges, which I like. I really want it to be said that he came, he served every day for eight years to the best of his ability, and left behind a better America and a better world.

LAMB: Thank you, Mr. President.

THE PRESIDENT: Great to see you, Brian. Thanks for coming.

--END--

Total time: 23:30

[Cocoa]

1. asking Bush about books and about reading

that's almost cruel.

I'm going to watch this, and I bet Bush is squirming like an unprepared schoolkid faking his way through an oral exam.

[Moderator]

2. locking

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