Gorbachev Calls Iraqi Elections “Fake

[drummer55]

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/01/31/gorbacheviraq.shtml

Former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev called the Iraqi parliamentary elections a profanation.

In an interview with the Interfax news agency, he said the elections are “very far from what true elections are. And even though I am a supporter of elections and of the transfer of power to the people of Iraq, these elections were fake.”

[cthrumatrix]

1. Gorbi must read DU .... he should know about fake elections.

[Benhurst]

2. Whatever his failings, and they are legion, he's another

Thomas Jefferson compared to Shrub and the Bush Crime Family.

[judy]

6. I have always admired Mikhail Gorbachev...

I am not aware of his legions of failings. What are they?
This is a true request for info, not a sarcastic question.

[radwriter0555]

12. Gorbachev is the man responsible for the downfall of communist russia,

and he's quite amazing... a true world leader in all senses.

And he's right about iraq.

[Benhurst]

16. True, but all patriotic Muricans "know" that it was The Gipper's

famous "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" speech before the Berlin Wall that destroyed the "commnist" menace.

Truth no longer has a place behind the Plastic Curtain which has fallen around the former republic of the United States

[Crunchy Frog]

17. I agree with you on that.

He had plenty of flaws, but he took a totalitarian state and brought it too the point of having genuine elected legislatures, especially at the Republic level. Freely enough elected that they could and did declare independence.

He had a lot to lose by doing the right thing, but he did it anyway. He was the complete opposite of Bush&Co. They've taken this country from a condition of free elections and headed in the direction of Soviet style ones. Same with the media.

Hoping I don't get flamed for saying it.

[Benhurst]

19. Here's my flame:

:toast: You're right on target.

[Crunchy Frog]

24. Thank you.

I know it's sometimes an unpopular opinion here.

[leesa]

35. How do you know?

[leesa]

34. genuine elected legislatures...how do you know that??? There were no

monitors. No verification whatsoever. You know it because our media and the BushCo whores told you??

Why would you believe it without any proof whatsoever??

[MADem]

38. Oh, come on, you naysayer!

Those Tupperware ballot boxes sealed with plastic garbage ties looked pretty doggone secure to me!!! Get with the program, fachrissake, FREEDOM is ON THE MARCH!!! Liberty and Justice for OIL!!! AMEN!! Hallelujah!!!

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Oh please!

I spent the entire period from 1984 thru 1992 obsessively watching and studying the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. I read and watched everything I could possibly get my hands on from every variety of source that was available. I studied Russian for 3 years. For some time I was able to recieve Russian television on a regular basis. Although I never got fluent enough in the language to really be able to read complex things in Russian, I nevertheless was able to read a wide variety of Soviet publications that came out in English editions.

I closely watched the independence movements in the Baltic states, and those movements were so massive that they absolutely overwhealmed the electoral process in those countries. Similar things happened in other Soviet republics and in the more urbanized areas of Russia.

There's alot that I used to know that I've forgotten, so I don't know if there were any international observers, but I do know that there had been social forces unleashed that took on a life of their own and allowed for something approximating genuine elections in many areas.

In the partly free elections for the Congress of People's Duputies in spring of 1989 for example, there were attempts on the part of party bosses to rig things so that only party hacks appeared on the ballots. In many areas where this happens, the majority of voters crossed out all names, denying any candidate the 50% needed to win. These elections had to be redone, and generally were thrown completely open the second time around.

At any rate, it can't be denied that Republic level legislatures that were the products of elections that took place under Gorbachev, were the very bodies that proclaimed independence from Moscow. That's simply a matter of historical record.

Where the hell do you get off making these insulting presumptions about me? You know absolutely nothing about me. By BushCo, I assume you mean Poppy. Do you think that I loved Poppy and was hanging on his every word? I don't know how you managed to leap to that sort of conclusion.

For the record, I was very aware of how our media was covering the events in the Eastern bloc, and very aware of its shortcomings. If you think my views were dictated by Poppy and the U.S media, you are obviously unaware of the fact that neither of these entities wanted to give Gorbachev credit for anything, and they mostly didn't even believe that it was happening until the whole thing actually collapsed.

Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions about people based on the flimsy evidence of one or two sentences that they've written. Maybe if you changed that behavior it would help you deal with your social problems in the real world as well.

[0007]

57. Very few Republicans trusted Gorbachev, I remember those

days clearly. Really didn't expect him to live this long.

[Igel]

30. And at a university lecture Q&A, when a student

asked about Reagan's "evil empire statement" (probably trying to get a condemnation of Reagan), his response was "Reagan was right. It was an evil empire."

(Just one bit of informational flotsam that floated around Slavic depts. in the mid 90s.)

[merwin]

27. Why do you hate our freedom? :-)

[Nashyra]

28. I get to hear him speak and meet him in April

He is the keynote speaker at the National Association of School Boards, he'll be speaking in San Diego. That is the same place the "fricking prince of darkness Novack" will be speaking. I'd like to ask that SOB some tough questions.

[pacifictiger]

51. I've always liked him too

I felt he was really smart, and was trying to bring change to the old soviet sytem, although slowly so as not to create chaos for too many people all at once. But once again the media slammed him totally to make that drunken bozo Yeltsin popular. And what happened? Chaos, oligarch monopolies, the rise of mafia style crimminals, and many poor people stuck in breadlines with no way out.

[PeaceBWichU]

55. I agree with you

The U.S.S.R was a *lot* better off when Gorbachev was running things.

They had a real chance at utopia on earth. Everyone had equality. Men, Women, Black, White...everyone was equal in the USSR.

If it weren't for the United States creating a sense of fear and demanding huge expenditures on weapons systems, the USSR might have succeeded in the grand dream. World Socialism.

[despairing optimist]

36. We should pass the Arnold Amendment and elect Gorbachev instead

That'd teach 'em.

[M155Y_A1CH]

49. Please, let's not! n/t

[OldVlad]

52. That's quite an indictment on us

My goodness, to even joke about such a thing, that we need Gorbachev to revive our chances for success in 08, talk about crying myself to sleep in the pillow tonight...

[Damien]

3. when the russians

come out against deceit and lies, you know there has to be something. damn.

[saigon68]

4. Well said !!!

[indepat]

5. No more fake than some other elections that come to mind

[lebkuchen]

7. Now there's a breath of fresh air

After being bombarded with election bullshit for the last two days, it's great to have Gorbachev come out and tell it like it is, short and sweet.

[plasticsundance]

9. Someone should inform Al Franken

[leesa]

25. Al likes to visit fantasyland quite a lot.

[Benhurst]

26. Poor Al. He put the "less" in "clueless." NT

[Patchuli]

37. And your reasons for that assertion?

I love Al Franken and don't see that. I do know his presence on Air America has been comforting, entertaining and enlightening. Why
do you say he is "clueless?"

This divisiveness thing is the root of the whole progressives problem.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

8. Let's see. Allawi was the ONLY name on the ballot!

Gee, one candidate is really a "Democratic Election"!

:eyes:

[TR Fan]

10. I assume you're being sarcastic

as there were 111 party slates and the one which Allawi was on is not expected to garner the most support.

[Inland]

11. That's right. NOBODY'S name was on the ballot.

Just party names. More than 111, I believe, since the largest vote getter was probably 169.

No names. No policies. No campaign. No platform. Some election.

[radwriter0555]

13. but you can bet money he'll be appointed like... those other guys.. what

were their names?

Right. george bush. adolph hitler....

[rooboy]

14. If it was genuine, the only thing the election did...

was ensure that Iraq's constitution will be written by the Shi'ites. How would you feel if only one party was allowed to write the US constitution?

[Swamp Rat]

15. DA! DA! DA!

YES! YES! YES!

"The Iraqi Election" is just a TV show. It never happened.

[daleo]

18. He saw his share of fake elections.

He ought to be able to spot one. Will the U.S. need a Gorby someday, to help it return to democracy, post Bush?

[Straight Shooter]

20. "Profanation." What a great word.

From http://www.onelook.com :

noun: degradation of something worthy of respect; cheapening
noun: blasphemous behavior; the act of depriving something of its sacred character

Hey, we had an election that was also a profanation!

[ananda]

21. one party constitution...

How would I feel if only one party was allowed to write the US Constitution?

... just the way I do now, because the Reeptiles are systematically rewriting the Constitution and have been for the last few years.

[KC21304]

22. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Bush's presidency is a profanation.

[Cocoa]

29. I looked it up too

i agree, a great word.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

23. LOL!! Yay for Gorby.

How VERY refreshing...glad to read SOMETHING positive in the news

[Igel]

31. I'm not sure there's a great deal of difference, but

the Russian is more like "What we observed in Iraq on Sunday and all the preparation for that day is far from what people call elections. And even though I'm a supporter of elections and of the transferral of power to the people of Iraq, these elections were conducted pro forma and became a profanation."

(Ìîñêâà. 31 ÿíâàðÿ. ÈÍÒÅÐÔÀÊÑ - Ýêñ-ïðåçèäåíò ÑÑÑÐ Ìèõàèë Ãîðáà÷åâ ñ÷èòàåò, ÷òî ñîñòîÿâøèåñÿ â Èðàêå ïàðëàìåíòñêèå âûáîðû âðÿä ëè ìîãóò èìåòü êàêóþ-òî ëåãèòèìíîñòü.

"Òî, ÷òî ìû íàáëþäàëè â Èðàêå â âîñêðåñåíüå, è âñþ ïîäãîòîâêó ê ýòîìó äíþ, î÷åíü äàëåêî îò òîãî, ÷òî íàçûâàþò âûáîðàìè. È õîòÿ, ÿ ñòîðîííèê âûáîðîâ, ñòîðîííèê ïåðåäà÷è âëàñòè íàðîäó Èðàêà, ýòè âûáîðû áûëè ïðîâåäåíû äëÿ ïðîôîðìû è ñòàëè ïðîôàíàöèåé", - ñêàçàë Ì.Ãîðáà÷åâ â ïîíåäåëüíèê "Èíòåðôàêñó".)

[d_b]

32. Give 'em hell, Gorby!

[leesa]

33. How would we know they aren't? No monitors. No reporters. No paper

trail. No verification whatsoever...just US MSM telling us it went swell.

I am more and more certain this was yet another BushCo con job.

[VegasWolf]

40. but, but, we saw all those pictures of long lines that bush provided us!

[GetTheRightVote]

39. So the big guns are coming out about the fake/fraud * election

surprise, surprise

:kick:

[lovuian]

41. Gorbie knows what is a fake election is... Its when they go Vote

with tanks in the street!!!

[poe]

42. CPA ORDERS STAND-YOU WILL NOT SAVE SEED-YOU WILL EAT McFALAFEL

To rebel is right, to disobey is a duty, to act is necessary !

[Viva_La_Revolution]

43. Monsanto reference?

Cool

[poe]

48. oui

Se rebeller est juste, désobéir est un devoir, agir est nécessaire !

[struggle4progress]

44. Irregularities, low turnout mar polls in Mosul

Iraq's crunch election was marred by irregularities and low turnout in Mosul on Sunday, despite insistence from the US military that voting in the restive northern capital passed off smoothly.

Kurdish and Christian politicians charged that thousands were unable to vote in Nineveh province because of a lack of ballot papers, sparking riots in one town north of Mosul.

As night fell when polling sites closed 10 hours after they opened, US troops transported both ballot boxes and election workers to a US military base for the laborious count. <snip>

An Iraqi soldier accidentally killed a civilian, a voter was wounded by sniper fire as he left a polling station and four mortar explosions caused no casualties, said the military.

http://www.thedailystar.net/2005/02/01/d50201130286.htm

[olddad56]

45. Fake elections? Already our form of Democracy. Nice

[olddad56]

46. Fake elections? Already our form of Democracy. Nice

[Spazito]

50. Gorbachev is right on in his assessment, imo

There is an irony here that is beyond belief. The US government is trying to sell a bill of goods that this 'election' was fair, free and overwhelming in it's message yet the same conditions that used to determine the results of the 'elections' of the former USSR were the same. Tanks in the streets, votes for food, only one candidate had access to to the media, etc. How hypocritical of the bush cabal to trumpet this faux election as real when the same elements of this US admin used to condemn the USSR for their faux elections.

There is NO difference, imo, between the faux elections held in the former USSR and the recent faux election held in Iraq by the US (bush cabal) and that is exactly what Gorbachev was pointing out.

[Gloria]

53. Thanks, Gorby! I think he's right on the mark...

eom

[Vidar]

54. Right on, Gorbie.

[DemonFighterLives]

56. Gorby has always been a breath of fresh air

When he came on the scene the entire cold war was scrapped. Reagan almost tripped him up with his evil empire stuff while Gorby was doing the right thing.
Now he is calling BFEE on their monkey business and more power to him.

[dandrhesse]

58. Any international pressure or criticism is good in my opinion