No Patriot Check Out At Libraries

[Seneca]

No Patriot Check Out At Libraries

(CBS/AP) Hoping to stop criticism and embarrass the critics, the Justice Department has declassified information about the Patriot Act, saying it has never been used to monitor what the public is reading and viewing.

According to a memo obtained by CBS News Correspondent Stephanie Lambidakis, Attorney General John Ashcroft reveals that the FBI has never used its expanded powers to obtain records from libraries and businesses, despite widespread fears from librarians and civil libertarians that FBI agents are visiting libraries as part of terrorism and criminal investigations.

"Public confidence in law enforcement is of paramount importance," Ashcroft wrote in a memo to FBI director Robert Mueller.

More: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/19/national/main569135.shtml

[UpInArms]

1. if they want the confidence of the public

and they have not used the provision, then why not drop the provision from their beloved desecration (USA PATRIOT Act) of the Constitution?

[Chico Man]

2. The fact of the matter is..

We don't care if you have used it. You have the ability under law to use it. If you are not going to use it, why did you make it part of the PAtriot Act?

Oh, I know the answer to that question, because you want to control people through FEAR.

[shanti]

19. exactly~

that is the bottom line

[Zero Gravitas]

3. Why should we believe them?

They say they can only fight "terra" in secret, secert investigations, warrents, detentions & trials. So they say they haven't checked up on anyone's reading habits, but the "PATRIOT" Act prohibits a librarians from saying whether the FBI has been snooping or not. So who will be able to contradict them if they are not telling the truth?

[TahitiNut]

8. We shouldn't.

"Public confidence" is rightfully placed in the fences and leashes, not in the goodwill of the beasts so controlled. Millenia of human history shows that government power corrupts those holding it. Thus, it is legitimate to preemptively restrain the 'liberties' of government - not the citizenry!

That this lesson has been turned on its head by this regime is beyond disgusting!

[Walt Starr]

12. Precisely, they could claim they have never used it and any librarian

who knew otherwise and made that information public will be committing a felony.

Why the fuck should we believe they haven't used it when the act itself prohibits any confirmation of that?

[tom_paine]

22. EXACTLY. Just more Orwellian bullshit from the Busheviks.

They know that NO ONE will dare challenge them.

And you'd better believe that Herr A$$cru$t will THROW THE BUSHEVIK BOOK at anyone who dares speak out.

But librarians are a tough bunch (who would have guessed) so maybe someone will dare.

And hey A$$cru$t...if you weren't going to USE it, then why didja PROPOSE IT.

This is more Orwellian nonsense. Very likely they are lying or doing a Bushevik special "dancing on the head of a pin" spinning wildly.

[BiggJawn]

25. BINGO! They can deny all they want in safety.

Any librarian who comes forward and disputes their statement will be locked up. and then publicly villified as a "kook"

"We don't know what he was talking about. the FBI has never been to his library."

"Then why are you detaining him?"

"National Security. Move along now."

[progressivejazz]

4. And no librarian can come forward to dispute this.

Because the law makes it a felony for a librarian to disclose the fact that this law has been used.

Puts Ashcroft in a nice position, no? He can say whatever he wants without fear of contradiction, because he can arrest anybody who contradicts him. And not some little local misdemeanor either, a full-fledged federal felony.

For this reason alone, I do not believe him.

[hippiechick]

5. re-selection campaign in full swing ...

First, 'There is no link between Iraq and 9/11',
now 'The Patriot Act was never used to monitor library patronage' ...

They're tap dancin' really fast in KKKarl's office, aren't they ?


:eyes:


:hippie:

[Fovea]

6. Does anyone know what the maximum rate of spin

of a bearing assembly is?

I am sure that Karl has to be pretty close to MaxV at this point.
On top of all that, the whole human sacrifice of the Veep thing must be a big monkey wrench, hovering over his bearings like the sword of Damocles.

[saigon68]

18. My hard drive is 6800 rpm n/t

[zbdent]

7. And the office of lies was closed

shortly after being found out.

I believe this as much as I believe that.

This is pure BS.

[ursacorwin]

9. LIAR!

my sister is a librarian, and although she can't officially tell me about her library, she does know at least two librarians at other libraries who've had a visit from the men in black...

bullshit!

[kayell]

10. Even IF* they have never used it

the fear of being caught reading a book that might excite their interest may stop many people from reading books that the BFEE would rather people don't read. So the possibility of being monitored accomplishes their goals in any case.

*and that's a really big IF.

[Tansy_Gold]

14. Whether they're afraid or not, people are still buying books

and more and more "left" books, if the NYT list is any indication.

I don't know if people aren't afraid of being FBI'ed or if they've just reached a point of not caring because the issues go beyond fear. But the success of Mike Moore, Joe Conason, Hillary, Hightower, Franken, and others shows that people are essentially thumbing their noses at Asscrack and the whole mess.

A friend mentioned to me the other day that she was on her library's waiting list for Brock's "Blinded by the Right" for six months. Must be not only book buyers but library patrons -- even here in rightwing Phoenix -- aren't letting the goobers in guvmint stand in their way.

[calimary]

28. Where's her library? Can we send it a copy or two?

[david_vincent]

11. OK, let me get this straight...

The FBI participated in covering up the conspiracy to assassinate JFK, the LA police destroyed evidence in the Robert Kennedy assassination, the FBI monitored and kept dossiers on lawful organizations and activists for years (and probably monitors this website), in every state in the Union police have conspired to fabricate evidence and railroad innocent people in criminal cases, all the time while lying to the public about their purpose and integrity, in fact throughout the whole of American history a strand exists of corruption, duplicity, criminality, and lawlessness on the part of law enforcement officials and agents, but still:
"Public confidence in law enforcement is of paramount importance."

[prolesunited]

13. How true

Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., has taken a leadership role in this issue and sponsored a bill that would repeal the provision that allows government access to library and bookstore records.

Here's an excerpt from a speech he made that concurs with you statement:

The problem is that while all of us can agree that terrorists who blow up buildings and kill innocent people are, in fact, "bad guys," history shows us that it is not uncommon that the people who are investigated, harassed, and punished by the government are not only not "bad guys," they are sometimes very good guys or, at the least, absolutely innocent people. And the point here is that George Bush and John Ashcroft should not be in the position of arbitrarily determining who is a "bad guy." The law should be very explicit about who can be investigated and why. That is what we call government by law.

Let me briefly recite some examples in American history that I know you're familiar with to emphasize the point of why this should be the case.

During the period around World War I, thousands of people in the United States were arrested, and some were deported, not because they were violent people, but because they believed in trade unionism and workers' rights. That was their crime.

During World War II, many thousands of Japanese-Americans were thrown into special camps because the government thought they were "bad guys" - despite the fact that not one Japanese-American ever committed an act of sabotage.

During the McCarthy period of the 1950s, many lives were destroyed and many people lost their jobs because of the irrational and dishonest anti-communist attacks of the Senator from Wisconsin.

During the 1960s, agents of the U.S. government, including the F.B.I., investigated and attacked many people whose major crime was that they believed in civil rights and opposed the war in Vietnam. Included in that number was Martin Luther King, Jr. whose phone was tapped and who was constantly followed by F.B.I. agents. In fact, the F.B.I. attempted to blackmail him by revealing information about his personal life, and suggested that the honorable thing to do would be to commit suicide.

It is today no secret that the long-time Director of the F.B.I., J. Edgar Hoover, had a massive record of files on the personal lives of thousands of Americans - including many elected officials. One of the files contained information about President John F. Kennedy.

During Watergate, of course, in the 1970s the Attorney General of the United States, the man ultimately in charge of the F.B.I. went to jail for massive violations of the law - and for allowing government agents to trample on the constitutional rights of Americans.

And that is why we do not want to allow the F.B.I. and other government agencies to go on "fishing expeditions," and why we want the law to be very explicit about who can be investigated.

http://bernie.house.gov/statements/20030623160151.asp

Sanders has lots of resources about this issue on his site as well:
http://bernie.house.gov/publications/index.asp?issue=Civil+Liberties

[Southsideirish]

15. How about the Unibomber 's librarian?

Didn't they question her regarding his reading habits? I seem to recall some others, too, but I have to put my "tinkin' cap" on.

[LivingInTheBubble]

16. This article

reminds me of article on theonion i read today

http://www.theonion.com/3936/

under news in brief "Revised Patriot Act Will Make It Illegal To Read Patriot Act".
:) :)

[Braden]

17. pay close attention here

the JD is trying to make light of the un-American "patriot" act by telling everyone to calm down about library records and basically using that to discredit anyone who protests the act.

check out the access to wire tapping that now exists. the Goverment need not ask anyones permission to wire tap anyone, and never needs to admit that they even did it.

move past the Library issue when debating this.

[dbt]

20. BULLSHIT.

I will only believe AshKKKroft when the regime holds him to the standard to which Saddam was held. In other words,

Let him prove he has never used it.

:argh:
dbt

[CaptAhab]

21. Liars

Here's a link to a story about an Atlanta man who was questioned by the FBI in July because he was reading a computer printout at a cafe--apparently this was deemed suspicious by a patron of said cafe, who reported him to the authorities. While this isn't a case of librarians being forced to turn over their records, it goes to show that civil rights are rapidly eroding in this country. You've checked out The Catcher in the Rye and 1984 from the library? You must be a terrorist. Off to Guantanamo Bay with you.

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2003-07-17/rant.html

[trapper914]

23. We've never used it...

...and won't...not until after Patriot 2 is passed.

[reprobate]

24. "Public confidence in law enforcement is of paramount importance,"

The only way Asscleft can restore public confidence is for him to resign.

[tom_paine]

26. Stalin sez' "Gulags house no prisoners"

These Totalitarian Scum are all the same. It is only the nation in which wthey live and the constraints placed on them that makes them different.

(not to mention a Constitution that has slowed the Busheviks down to the point where Asscroft will be too old to masturbate to the Inquisition or whatever it will be this time around)

Thanks, Founding Fathers! Without your Consitution and Bill of Rights slowing them down, we'd already be in the Gulags.

[E_Zapata]

27. I don't care if they use that power or not

the feds shouldn't have that power. Period. End of story.

this declassification of info is a pie in the face. The issue is not what I am reading; it is that the government thinks it has a right to know.

Talk about blurring the lines of what a civil right is. Bastards.