4 Mounties killed in raid: unconfirmed reports

[iverglas]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/03/alberta-shooting050303.html

Last Updated Thu, 03 Mar 2005 18:39:14 EST
CBC News

MAYERTHORPE, ALTA. - Unconfirmed reports say four
RCMP officers were killed Thursday during a raid on a
marijuana grow operation in northwestern Alberta.

The Canadian Press and a local radio station are reporting
the deaths, based on unidentified sources.

... <Alberta Solicitor General> Cenaiko's office had
earlier said at least two officers had
been wounded when gunfire broke out during a raid on an
alleged hydroponic marijuana operation.

There was widespread speculation of a hostage taking
involving the person or people allegedly running the drug
operation.

[iverglas]

1. ... and why it's of interest here

First, this is pretty much unprecedented up here.

Marijuana grow-ops in Canada often supply the US market. There is an integrated north-south market involving the movement of marijuana south in return for other drugs to be moved north.

The actual situation in Canada is that nobody really gives much of a shit about pot-smoking, and police resources would not likely be devoted to chasing down growers to the extent that they now are, were it not for US demands that we up here take action to prevent the entry of marijuana into the US.

This weekend's Toronto Star addressed the question of whether a vendor of residential property must disclose to a potential purchaser that the property had been used for a grow-op; the columnist noted that the problem is sufficiently widespread that real estate agents are increasingly being asked how vendors should address it.

The involvement of organized crime in grow-ops is of course self-evident.

So please, folks. End that war on drugs soon, will you? I don't particularly want to see British Columbia turned into British Colombia.

[bahrbearian]

16. What about the "Terrorist aspect" ?

We are told ,(down here), that's how they fund themselves,that and Diamonds.

[HEyHEY]

17. This guy was supposedly hooked in with the H.A.s

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

54. H.A. "affiliated" ? got a link or info on that? why do you think that? n/t

?

[Occulus]

74. simple answer

Canada should publicly take a stand and state it will not take any action involving movement of marijuana into the US. Let us handle our own 'problem'.

[Megahurtz]

2. Yikes.

You don't hear of this too much up north (about the Mounties I mean)

[Worst Username Ever]

3. Legalize n/t

[Megahurtz]

4. They have been way more lax about it

up there than they are here to begin with. They must be taking lessons from Bushitler & Co.

[iverglas]

5. not lessons ... marching orders

You know how easy and fashionable it is to blame Canada.

The cannabis lobby here ridicules the notion that Cdn grow-ops supply the US market. I think that's a tad disingenuous.

But I think that the US govt's insistence that Canada is a major problem in terms of the supply of marijuana to the US market is even more disingenuous. The evidence is that the overwhelming majority of the weed sold in the US is grown there.

However, given the vulnerability of our economy to retaliation from the US for any perceived slight -- raising the level of security at borders over an alleged drug-smuggling problem can cause $millions in losses in industries dependent on cross-border shipping -- we sometimes don't have much choice but to follow the orders.

Why, just this week, we refused to participate in the missile-defence idiocy ... and presto! a US federal judge ordered that shipments of Cdn beef into the US not be permitted to resume. Quelle amazing coincidence.

The US govt's war on drugs extends far beyond US borders, and while we don't have US-supplied helicopters spraying stuff that wipes out our crops and livestock the way the Colombians do, we do have casualties.

[achtung_circus]

6. I'm familiar with the Northern Alberta RCMP

and somewhat familiar with their "war on drugs".

Much of the large scale hydroponics ops are controlled by Hells Angels. It is more a war on organized crime than it is a war on drugs. Minor stuff isn't chased energetically.

Of course, legalization with taxation would put the industry in the hands of farmers rather than in the hands of biker gangs, the same can be said of prostitution.

I worked closely with "K" division RCMP for years. I'm just sick. I want to know, in a sick kind of way, who's dead, because then I'll at lkeast know.

[SouthernDem2004]

9. The beef thing was mad cow related I am afraid.

[achtung_circus]

11. self delete

I misread the post

[iverglas]

13. yes ... and if you believe that

well, there are still some bridges available for purchase down there, aren't there?

Good lord. This is the Bush administration we're talking about, and the agribusiness interests behind the administration. Just like the corporate interests behind the treaty-violating tariffs on Cdn softwood lumber (and earlier, the treaty-violating closure of the US market to Mexican trucking).

I'm not a big fan of the tinfoil, but damn, some things really just are related.

[SouthernDem2004]

44. and the recent mad cow incidents mean nothing?

[HEyHEY]

55. Yeah but southdem

Canadian and US beef were so interconnected it's a bit dodgy to think the problem's been isolated by banning Canadian beef.

[Donkeyboy75]

10. Quite the ironic post

"You know how easy and fashionable it is to blame Canada."

[iverglas]

66. ya think?

I had to wander off, and the point you were attempting to make just dawned on me. It sure is amazing, the places where one finds USAmerican jingoism when one least expects it.

For your benefit, an excerpt from an explanation I offered elsewhere at DU.

________________________

I posted this story here for two reasons (apart from the fact that I just thought it might be of interest, since I do proceed from the notion that other people are like me, and are interested in a variety of things).

1. ...

2. The crime in question, like so many, was plainly a direct result of drug policies. Most here advocate an end to the US govt's "war on drugs" for reasons like this. The incident is an illustration of the arguable wisdom of taking an approach other than criminalization and enforcement to the drug problem.

The fact is that were it not for external pressure, marijuana use would not be criminal in Canada; what approach might be taken to large-scale production is not quite so clear, as Cdn society appears to be ready not to criminalize the user, but not sure what to do about the producer.

The Cdn govt and law enforcement agencies are under heavy pressure from the US govt to enforce existing Cdn laws, and not to formally amend them to decriminalize marijuana possession. This is a fact, whether anyone here chooses to recognize it or not. Retaliatory measures, such as increased "security" measures at the US border allegedly necessitated by such a lax approach to drugs, would cost the Cdn economy huge amounts, in shipping delays alone, just to start with. More formal retaliation might be foreseen as well.

Were it not for the "war on drugs" in the US, and were marijuana use simply decriminalized in Canada as it would then certainly be, it is more than predictable that there would be at least a lot less organized crime involvement in marijuana production and marketing, either here or in the US.

The involvement of organized crime in marijuana production in Canada and the transfer of that product into the US (to the extent that this actually occurs, which is probably less than the US govt claims but more than the cannabis lobby claims) -- the Hell's Angels are our major corporate crime organization, and they engage in very unpleasant activities to protect their interests -- is also a fact. In this instance, it may have been hometown boy with rifle doing the producing, but he was unlikely the one taking the product to market, I'd say.

But gosh, why doesn't Canada just decriminalize marijuana possession? On a very quick google ...

http://www.medicalmarihuana.ca/meddling.html

U.S. Government Threatens Canada with Trade Sanctions
Canadian Marijuana Reform Concern to U.S.

Monday, May 13, 2002
Global National Story

... Sources close to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency say it will soon issue a report claiming there are 15 to 20,000 marijuana growing operations in British Columbia alone and 95 per cent of the output is headed south.

"A dramatic increase in the gross quantity of marijuana of high potency coming across the border," says Colonel Robert Maginnis, a U.S. government adviser on drug policy. He says the Bush administration is alarmed by a recent Senate study that says Canada's marijuana laws are ineffective.

The U.S. fears the next step could be looser regulations leading to more drugs crossing the border and its ready to play hardball with trade to make sure that doesn't happen.

"To antagonize government leaders and grass roots leader because you insist on having a radical drug policy that we will not ignore in the long term, then its going to have adverse consequences and I hope we would be able to rectify it before it comes to blows," explains Maginnis.

Such charming and diplomatically veiled threats.

And damned if I didn't think that people at DU who oppose the Bush administration, and in particular its war on the poor under the cloak of the war on drugs and its bully-boy tactics on the international stage in just about any matter where it regards its interests as supreme, might think that threats like these were just not really a good thing. And might grasp the very real consequences that such policies have for real people outside their borders (don't forget those peasant farmers in Colombia ...), and possibly give a damn about the ones who end up dead.

[biftonnorton]

18. Must Be The Mad Cow

that was found in your beef, eh?

And as far as missile defense, I'm sure Canadians know that the U.S. will HAVE to take care of any Iranian/Korean/Chinese/Russo missiles headed that way b/c we'd get the radiation from them during the next Alberta Clipper that brings down to us their unliveable cold weather. That's why they can opt out of the missile defense strategy and let Americans, as usual, take the initiative to keep neighbors safe.

[HEyHEY]

19. Just want to point out

The reason it's never found in US beef is because you don't test for it as efficiently.

[biftonnorton]

21. Oh, come down and show us how it's done

we so need Canadian expertise here.

[HEyHEY]

22. Hey, I'm not trying to start shit

You just may want to beware, because you're in for a rude awakening one day.

[biftonnorton]

25. It's A Wonder We Have A Beef Industry At All

without foreign expertise. I'm sorry we're the world leader in beef production. But I like snow, and waiting to see crappy doctors in a socialized medicine plan sounds cool and stuff, so I still think Canada is cool. So, opt out of the missile defense strategy. We'll foot the bill. As usual.

[HEyHEY]

29. Buddy, if Canadian doctors were crappy

There wouldn't be a reason for Americans to be sucking ass to get them to go to the US.

Leader in beef, yup...you know why? Cause your fatass country can't stop eating, which ties into the demand for doctors.

Missile defence? Are you dumb enough to believe it's needed, call it payback for softwood lumber, of which we foot the bill.

Snow? A large portion of Canada is a mild climate and snow is rare...if you weren't educated in some shitty second rate US school system you'd know that.

[oasis]

57. If you think the schools were bad back in his day, wait until "No Child

Left Behind" gets up a full head of steam. The systematic dumbing down of America.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[achtung_circus]

43. World leader in Beef?

look at some stats. If you c an't find any on your own, look here:

<http://www.canfax.ca/>

[oasis]

56. What country would be fool enough to throw in with madman Bush

on a missle defense strategy? He's know worldwide as "Mr. Pre-emptive War Fuckhead".

[Wat_Tyler]

61. Hmm. Those sound strangely like Republican talking points.

Any reason for that? :shrug:

[iverglas]

62. don't worry, be happy

The ban on the import of Cdn cattle has done two things:

- given the production end of US agribusiness a huge windfall profit, as they have raised prices in a situation where demand outstrips supply.

- forced consumers to pay the artificially high prices the packers obviously pass on to the consumers.

Enjoy. 'Cause the embargo hasn't done a damned thing to keep BSE out of your food chain. And there ain't any in ours, and we're even reaping some of the cheap prices your govt's actions have denied you.


waiting to see crappy doctors in a socialized medicine plan sounds cool and stuff

I'm sure it sounds very cool ... to you and those of your colleagues who obviously spend way too much time listening to folks like the ones I've been watching on Fox News. I mean, apparently some people will believe just anything.

So, opt out of the missile defense strategy. We'll foot the bill. As usual.

Damn it's nice to have neighbours like you!

I gather that some of you even actually support the policies of the Democratic Party ...

[Canadian Socialist]

50. Maybe it's time

that you did have some Canadian expertise. Like, I don't know, say in politeness? Just saying.

[Swede]

23. Yeah,they are just itching to nuke the Canadians.

Canucks poking there huge military machine everywhere that they are not wanted.

[HEyHEY]

24. And fucking up sports leagues

[biftonnorton]

28. Control of resources

is vital. The devil's in the details. 'nuff said.

[HEyHEY]

30. And soon it all ends for you guys

[Swede]

32. So send a missle to get control of resources?

Brilliant! You should be working in the Whitehouse. nuff said.

[HEyHEY]

33. He's just a typical reject

Who will stand there scratching his head when the US is loaded with trade embargos and the nation is starving because the world finally said enough's enough

[biftonnorton]

37. Like That'll Happen

The world depends on the U.S. too much too piss us off. I might be a reject; my graduate degree WAS obtained in the U.S., for godsake. The U.S., a country where so many want to be for their graduate studies. Hmmm... Maybe we're not so bad after all?

[CHIMO]

38. You Are Absolutely Right

Nice to hear from someone who is always right.

[HEyHEY]

39. Same thing up here pal we get plenty of foreign students

Many even come to our highschools.

I got news for you buddy, it will happen. It's already begun, no world leaders respect or give a shit about what Bush has to say anymore.... begining of the end.

[achtung_circus]

46. So, you've bought that line, have you?

Try this: <http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8191.htm>

America No. 1?

America by the numbers

by Michael Ventura

02/03/05 "ICH" - - No concept lies more firmly embedded in our national character than the notion that the USA is "No. 1," "the greatest." Our broadcast media are, in essence, continuous advertisements for the brand name "America Is No. 1." Any office seeker saying otherwise would be committing political suicide. In fact, anyone saying otherwise will be labeled "un-American." We're an "empire," ain't we? Sure we are. An empire without a manufacturing base. An empire that must borrow $2 billion a day from its competitors in order to function. Yet the delusion is ineradicable. We're No. 1. Well...this is the country you really live in:

* The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (the New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004).
* The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).
* Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. Seventeen percent believe the earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005).
* "The International Adult Literacy Survey...found that Americans with less than nine years of education 'score worse than virtually all of the other countries'" (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78).

Sometime in the next 10 years Brazil will probably pass the U.S. as the world's largest agricultural producer. Brazil is now the world's largest exporter of chickens, orange juice, sugar, coffee, and tobacco. Last year, Brazil passed the U.S. as the world's largest beef producer. (Hear that, you poor deluded cowboys?) As a result, while we bear record trade deficits, Brazil boasts a $30 billion trade surplus (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

As of last June, the U.S. imported more food than it exported (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

[BunnyPuncher]

60. I'm more concerned about how one guy...

Took out four "trained" peace officers...

By the looks of things the media here is spinning the "grow ops" are evil line as opposed to the "how the hell did we we have such a organizational breakdown that one individual was able to kill 4 RCMP officers?".

We'll have the wrong discussion in the media (drugs) and completely ignore what happened here (decision making / training).

That said... very sad day for Canadians (we do love our mounties!)

[biftonnorton]

34. I'm Just Sayin'

It's better to get control of the resources under a stable regime, like a superpower, than to leave the control of them to chance. Not saying anything about missiles, other than we want to defend against them.

[Swede]

36. I disagree with you on missle defense.

Canada and the US are allies and friends. Canadian politicians are in tune with their citizens and are following their wishes.

[Canadian Socialist]

45. I'm a little confused

about your post. Are you suggesting, as I read it, that the U.S. should take control of Canada's natural resources because you (the U.S.) are a superpower therefore more stable? I honestly do not know what you are talking about. And what, exactly, does this have to do with 4 Mounties being murdered by an (alleged) member of the Hell's Angels?

[achtung_circus]

47. Silly me, I thought I lived in a stable regime.

It's called a whole separate country.

[HEyHEY]

35. Also, if you wanted to keep everyone safe you'd stop being assholes

To the world in general.

[Megahurtz]

27. Of course. The U.S. always has their "Fall Guys"

all over the world. And the trouble is the Generic Public here buys into the bullshit.

[biftonnorton]

31. Some People Just Can't Cut It

and fall by the wayside. There's winners and losers. Just how it happens, bro.

[Richard Steele]

70. Speaking of that 'wayside'....

Enjoy your stay.

[Middle Finger Bush]

68. CDN grow ups DO supply the US. n/t

[iverglas]

69. and your point was?

MY point was that the US exports its "war on drugs" (which, I really thought liberals/progressives/Democrats agreed, is a war on the poor and oppressed in the US, even if they aren't aware of the wider aspect of it as a war on the poor and oppressed in many parts of the world) in many ways.

If the US govt were not engaged in this pseudo-war, which we might better call a permanent state of belligerance against the people who might otherwise threaten its position of power, then there would be no illicit demand to be supplied, illicit demand usually being supplied by criminal organizations.

The "nutcase" who committed the murders in this case was very obviously not the party who took his product to market. That is an operation of a complexity obviously beyond his limited resources. As would be the acquisition of the weapon he used, one that (from what I can tell) is prohibited in Canada, and that was doubtless supplied to him by the criminal organization with whom he dealt to sell his product. Which, I'd bet my own farm if I had one, entered Canada covertly from the US where it could be quite readily purchased, either legally or illegally.

(Canadian grow-ops may supply the US with marijuana, but the USAmerican firearms industry supplies Canada with the guns that kill us. I know which I'd feel guiltier about.)

It's marijuana, for dog's sake. And because the US govt has an interest in keeping its users confined to an oppressed and exploited social and economic substratum of its society by criminalizing their behaviour, other societies that are vulnerable to the actions of both the US govt and the people who benefit from its policies -- organized criminals in Canada, worse in Colombia, for example -- suffer the fallout.

[pretzel4gore]

7. those alberta boys don't like bullshit

idiot cops...to die for what? to drive up the price of street drugs? to force addicts into ever increasingly horrific situations to get the 'monkey off their back' (btw, name a great nation with a monkey on its back...lol)....and to increase the profits of the true crims who are behind the drug trade (and who never have to worry about 'law'n'order' anyway)....alberta is the most rightwing province in canada (helped by god's insane wisdom in putting oil in their backyard) and trickle down economics says marijuana growing out in the hinterlands can be a good way to be prosperous if, by chance, the oil profits went to the elect, who protect their membership very closely...even from righteous thinking neocons who have lotsa guns and no hesitation to use them (and who know damn well that while drugs might be bad, mari-juwanna isn't, fukking liars lying year in-year out notwithstanding!)
surprisingly, even the rightwingers think marijuana laws are foolish; a busted 'grow op' just increase the profits to those that escape notice, indeed, police believe they have often been tipped off by grow operators themselves, trying to lessen the competition and decrease availability!
it'll be interesting to see how the police statists/rightwingnuts try to use the 4 rcmp deaths to promote harsher pot laws....

[Hoping4Change]

12. idiot cops, I don't think so. Idiot criminals. You obviously are

not aware that Northern Alberta has become a major source of Meth. Meth addiction and deaths related to Meth has sky-rocketed in N Alberta.

[HEyHEY]

15. The guy was a nutjob

Idiot cops? Hey these are the guys following orders...not the lawmakers.

[pretzel4gore]

40. you're both right....

i sounded glib to the loss of public servants (which police are, and Mounties even moreso as they are national) though i meant the head office guys, not really the street cops who paid the price...the fish DOES rot from the head when talking about marijuana and the laws that make it illegal (thus profitable to grow)

[achtung_circus]

8. More

The source said the four officers went to a farmhouse near Rochfort Bridge where they surprised a lone male suspect, who shot them with a high-powered rifle before killing himself.

A fifth RCMP officer, who was in the area on an unrelated stolen property investigation, discovered the bodies, the source said.

[bemildred]

14. Gives new meaning to the term "Drug War" eh? nt

[Swede]

20. They were junior officers armed with handguns only.

What the fuck happened?

[blue northern]

41. They were guarding the crop until senior officers returned in the morning

According to the CBC's National evening news.
Questions are arising as to why four junior officers were left alone without any senior supervision.
There will no doubt be an investigation.
It's past time to stop treating "illicit" drugs as a legal issue and start treating their use as a health issue.
The war on drugs was lost a long time ago.
Minimizing casualties should be the focus now.
This could result in a knee-jerk reaction that sets back Canada's progressive policy re: pot.
I hope not. This was an unprecidented incident in recent memory here.
We often go several years in the entire country without having an officer die in the line of duty .
I feel so sorry for the families of these fallen constables.
So young and to die so needlessly.

[Canadian Socialist]

48. I think it was 1885

when that many members were killed at once. And that was during the Northwest Rebellion. It is a terrible blow to our country. These young people went up north and more than likely, were liked and embraced by the community they served. My thoughts are with their families. I reiterate my previous thoughts-we need to legalise these substances, tax them and control them. Otherwise, the production of them will always be controlled by organized crime groups.

[blue northern]

51. agreed cs

Prohibition = criminal distribution.
Prohibition didn't work with booze.
It won't work with herb.
Legalize and tax the hell out of it I say.
Demand doesn't appear to be going anywhere soon.
I'd rather proceeds went to farmers and social programs than criminal organizations.
Peace again to the families involved.

[iverglas]

63. absolutely

The problem, of course, is that we can't decriminalize marijuana production/consumption as long as the US govt is engaged in its war on the rest of us (and them), "war on drugs" being one skirmish in that war.

We might think softwood lumber and beef are bad, but we ain't seen nuttin compared to what would happen to the border if we did that. Of course, it would just be one more big old fake excuse to engage in illegal protectionist trade practices. But the folks at home (at least 50% + 1 of 'em) would eat it up.

That's why I posted the story here. An outpost of US empire in Northern Alberta: Canadians dying to fight the US govt's war.

As to the Hell's Angels connection, one can hardly doubt that there is *some* organized crime connection. (USAmericans may not know that the Hell's Angels are our big corporate-crime organization up here.) Quonsets full of pot don't make their way to market through the efforts of one hometown boy with rifle.

Were it not for the profits to be made, which result directly from the prohibition, would there be no organized crime involvement? At present, Cdn marijuana is apparently traded (although I'm not sure that I buy the one-for-one ratio) in the US for coke. If pot were decriminalized here but not there, that might continue, but at least there would be huge competition among Cdn suppliers and so less attraction for the gangs, at least at the production end. If pot were decriminalized in both places, it (and its producers and consumers) could be severed from the criminal underworld altogether.

Our southern friend in this thread spoke of US control of world resources, resulting in stability (for US consumers, one supposes). Stability is not always the aim of the efforts to control; duh.

In this case, given the US's efforts to control all aspects of the drug trade everywhere, and the refusal, in the face of the spectacular failure of those efforts to actually diminish the "drug problem" in the US or anywhere else, to change the approach to it, one has to consider the possibility that the goal is really something else.

And yes, the incident is a tragic one. I used the word "unprecedented" here to describe it yesterday, and the Commissioner used the same word.

Whaddaya think the chance is that our colleagues here have heard of the Northwest Rebellion? Goodness gracious, rebellions in Canada?? It's in the news reports today:
http://news.google.ca/news?q=%22northwest+rebellion%22&hl=en&lr=&cr=countryCA&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=nn&oi=newsr

[enigmatic]

26. This happened down the road from me..

very, vry sad...

[Spazito]

49. It sure sounds like someone higher up blew it

if they felt it was big enough to send 4 officers then it should have been recognized as being big enough to need backup and support. There is no doubt there will be an investigation on this one.

[achtung_circus]

53. In about 1995 in Sherwood Park, Alberta

2 young RCMP constables attended a scene at an industrial plant. They found 2 people dead. It appeared to be an electrical accident and the scene was cleared. The medical examiner found .22 rounds in the heads of the 2 badly burned bodies.

Procedures changed, and it became SOP for a supervisor to attend all sudden deaths and other major events to provide the benefit of years of wisdom.

I'm not sure that an unattended gro-op would qualify. I don't know if a Corporal attended and left the Constables for the night. There is still a lot we don't know.

[Up2Late]

52. (Reuters) Four Mounties Killed in Bloody Canadian Drug Raid

(Sorry folks, I hope you don't have any family that are Mounties) :grouphug:

Thu Mar 3, 2005 09:20 PM ET

By Jeffrey Jones

CALGARY, Alberta (Reuters) - Four Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers were shot and killed during a raid on a marijuana-growing operation in rural Alberta on Thursday, in one of the bloodiest days in the history of the national police force, a senior official said.

A suspect in the shootout that erupted inside a large farm building that police were investigating also died when he turned his rifle on himself, said Bill Sweeney, commanding officer of the RCMP in Alberta.

"The loss of four officers is unprecedented in recent history in Canada. I'm told you have to go back to about 1885 in the RCMP history during the Northwest Rebellion to have a loss of this magnitude," Sweeney told reporters in the town of Mayerthorpe, about 90 miles northwest of Edmonton.

"It's devastating."

The Mounties' names were not released. They were described as junior members of the force that has long been one of Canada's most famous national symbols.

In the late morning, the officers, armed with handguns, entered a large metal hut as part of a stakeout that began the night before when they came under fire from what police said was a man armed with a rifle.

In response, the force called in its SWAT team and major crime units and closed the airspace over the area. It requested the Edmonton city police department helicopter as well as armored personnel vehicles from Edmonton's armed forces base.
(more at link)
<http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=7804232&src=rss/worldNews>

[Ganja Ninja]

58. and all for what?

If pot were legal these guys would have been considered entrepreneurs. They would have been supporting themselves and the economy plus paying taxes. Now how many people have been killed?

[truthisfreedom]

59. so he was nuts.

basically, that's what we know. besides the dope.

[Conservativesux]

75. Another nut with a gun. So whats new?

The only difference is this was in Canada, not the USA, land of the worshippers of the Gun. x(

[iverglas]

64. thank you

I've known some mounties in this eastern Canadian urban metropolis, but don't know anybody in Northern Alberta.

But it's kinda like that 9/11 thing ... it happened to some of "us", even if we hadn't previously known they existed. Condolences are always appreciated.

[daleo]

65. Legalize marijuana, and this stops.

Imagine a shootout at a tomato greenhouse. I recall watching the latest movie version of "The Untouchables". All that pious moralizing, bloodshed and murder, and you knew the product would be legalized soon anyway.

[u4ic]

67. This guy was a nutcase

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/04/roszko050304.html

[achtung_circus]

71. So, it turns out I worked with one of the members killed

but even stranger, I am even more familiar with the lawyer who had defended James Roszko (the shooter) in the past.

In 1999, he was charged with firing on two trespassers with a 12-gauge shotgun, but those charges were dismissed, Sun Media reported.

He was due in court next month facing charges of mischief for damaging vehicles by the use of spike belts on his property.

Guy Fontaine, Roszko's lawyer in the 1993 incident, told the National Post his former client was convinced the RCMP harassed him.

"He was well known in the RCMP, and the RCMP certainly didn't have to be looking at a road map to get to Roszko's residence, I can tell you that," Fontaine said.

I've known Guy for years.

[ausiedownunderground]

72. If US wants Canadian Natural Resources they'd better hurry!!!!

Like here in OZ, China's already off and running. Chinese enterprises are moving in fast buying up raw materials and energy everywhere. I suspect the same is starting to happen in Canada as well.
OZ current Account details released last week show that our deficit with China in Dec 2004 and Jan 2005 hit 5.4 billion OZ dollars. That equalled our entire deficit with China for the previous 12 months, and we are exporting everything we can dig out of the ground to them. China is now our number 2 creditor. 3 years ago it was number 20. The US still hangs on as our No 1 creditor. For the period Dec 2004-Jan 2005 we owed the US 6.2 billion OZ dollars. This however is heavily skewed by, you guessed it, military equipment and Boeing airplanes! With China, its everything from clothes and footwear to electronic consumables!
As for US missile defence - like you Canadians, were also being harrased to "sign up", by the Neo-Crazies. As far as we know the Americans are still trying to shoot down the last dummy missile they fired from Alaska. The whole idea is just plain economically "stupid". Diplomacy is far far cheaper!! However The Rethuglican Parties financial contributors need their "pound of flesh" so the money pit will keep on sucking. Our conservative government will almost "bend over backwards" to say "yes", but appears to be very split on contributing any dollars to it. Even they know its a complete waste of resources.
I don't know what you Canadians are doing, but looks like down here we are having a "big" demo on March 19th against the Iraq War. OZ public seem quite excited about it to. A lot more people expressing their desire to protest publically! Could be interesting!

[barb162]

73. To all the Canadians here : I am very sorry. The USA continues

to deny reality that the demand for drugs in the USA is what has to be stopped. It would never be grown in the first place if there were no demand for it here. I really am sorry this happened.