Raw Food Vegans Thin But Healthy, Study Finds

[meganmonkey]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -

--snip---
Although nutritionists and the food industry have warned that a diet without dairy foods can lead to the bone-thinning disease osteoporosis, the team at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis found the vegans they studied had many of the signs of strong bones.

--snip---
"Raw food vegetarians believe in eating only plant-derived foods that have not been cooked, processed, or otherwise altered from their natural state," Fontana's team wrote in this week's issue of the Archives of Internal medicine.

--snip--
Fontana expected the vegans to have low vitamin D levels because they avoid dairy products, which are fortified with the vitamin. But in fact their vitamin D levels were "markedly higher" than average.

And the vegans had low levels of C-reactive protein, an inflammatory molecule that is becoming linked with the risk of heart disease, diabetes and other chronic disease.

more...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=751&e=1&u=/nm/20050329/hl_nm/health_raw_dc

[ender]

1. vitamin B-12

that is all.

[Cha]

5. Miso, Nutritional yeast.

Vegemite,Spirulina, Wheatgrass juice(yummm)..

[Deja Q]

6. I second that. Here are some links, which I implore all to read:

I've been reading up on B12 due to a recent issue of mine... B12 is utterly crucial. While the body can store enough B12 to last for a few years (3~5), once it runs low, problems can begin. And it can take years for signs to show. But when they do show, it's not easy to get back to a pre-degenerated state.

http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=42084

http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57840

http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/conditions/vitaminb12.html

There's a lot more out there, but the three above are a good start.

[Triana]

9. I'm vegetarian and I use nutritional yeast almost daily...

...and miso as well. My doctor *told* me to take B12 for exactly that reason. I did a Google and found Red Star nutritional yeast (the most well-known brand) was an excellent source, so started buying it. It's a diet staple for me. Additionally, I take B12 in my vitamins.

So, B12 is absolutely essential for vegetarians and vegans!

[evolvenow]

65. Have you tried Metagenics B-12 with Intrinsic factor/folate? Worked really

well for me. Do a google and see if you can order it online, or form a chiro/nat.doc near you. It made an enormous difference for me, but check if it is right for you. for vegans, we need the Intrinsic factor to assimilate the B-12. Might want to look into it.

Vegans ROCK!! It feels good, tastes fantastic, and I believe it is anti-aging, as most people never believe my actual age, when asked.

Raw food is superb, and if it is too much to do all of the time, add a raw meal when you can, and you receive the benefits of a fresh, living lift!

Anyone that has a chance to hear David Wolfe, go, he is amazing and a walking, talking example of the vitality of a raw food lifestyle.

[livinginphotographs]

35. My supplement contains 300% of my RDA of B12.

Your point?

[Cha]

2. Good for us!

Less colds, too.

[Lucky Luciano]

4. I don't know how you guys do it!

What do you do if you travel to a foreign country? A lot of effort!

[Cha]

7. You can eat vegan food in a

foreign Country.

[Lucky Luciano]

12. I know, but you can't just walk into

a restaurant and get what you want....unless you are in India I guess.

[meganmonkey]

14. Well, you can't do that at a lot of restaurants here either

Plus this article is specifically about raw-food vegans, and when you are traveling (at least in my experience) it tends to be very easy to get fresh foods, produce is pretty easy to come by. (for the record, I am not vegan, although I have been vegetarian in the past for years at a time. But there was no way I was going to go to Germany and NOT eat bratwurst! :) )

[Lucky Luciano]

15. You can pull off vegetarian easier...

When you are home and in your element, it is easy enough to know where to go, but when traveling spontaneously - well, it could be harder....then sometimes people invite to have dinner with them...I guess it does not matter at all though! I am a travel freak, so it pops into my head first, but it is not the first thing on the minds of most people with the vegan lifestyle! I think the only way I could be vegetarian is if I lived in India. That is the only food that I consistently love with or without meat. Probably because I am a spicy food junky. Thumbs down to bland food! :)

[lastknowngood]

3. Yeah but miserable. I'm going to enjoy my time here.

n/t

[phasev]

49. miserable? how?

I'm a vegan and 50% of my diet is raw food (fruits and vegetables) and I don't get sick even during the "flu season"

I also lead a very active lifestyle. I run and do/teach martial arts. How exactly is this miserable?

[Stuckinthebush]

66. You're not clogging your arteries with animal fat

The really good tasting cow or pig fat. Mmmmmmm! How miserable a life you must have!

You don't get to eat those yummy trans fat laden chips that come in that neat bag that sits perfectly on your stomach as you watch TV. Now that's miserable!

You probably don't get constipated because you eat too much fiber, so you don't get that valuable "alone" time on the pot contemplating life and the peeling wall paper in the bathroom. Miserable!

I don't know how you even get up in the morning with the miserable existence that faces you on a daily basis.

:evilfrown:

[Mountainman]

8. You want some good vitamin D? Go naked in the sunshine a couple hours a

day. Of course use sun screen and make sure it is a warm day.



The information that we have about food from the food industry is there for the industries benefit not ours.
I am a vegetarian though not a vegan.
I like cheese but I don't eat it because I fear a loss of some vitamin.

I once told a conservative co-worker that I was a vegetarian and her reply was, "Well you don't look unhealthy!"

[jdj]

11. that's the saddest part.

"nutrition" in this country has always been about the bottom line.

I was thinking about this the other day, like, McDonalds sells a fish sandwich and they put cheese on it.

Who in the world ever thought to put cheese on fish? This had to come from the dairy assoc. Do people in other countries eat cheese on their fish?

[qazplm]

27. cheese on fish is actually

rather tasty depending on the fish...I somehow doubt its a dairy assoc. conspiracy, people arent eating it and liking it because the milk people said so ;)

as for vegans, more power to ya, but I like meat, it's tasty and it's yummy :D

[KansDem]

58. OK, you asked for it!

And, Fellow Kansan, I know you have at least 3 hours (or more) to go to dinner!

Enjoy!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :evilgrin:

[MisterP]

10. but what do beef-industry-funded studies say? it's only science when

there's money and corporatists involved, goddammit!

[BoogDoc7]

13. I'm learning...

A good bit as to how the mass-produced food in this country is getting, enough to start growing a garden and eating a few healthier-type substances.

Not enough to give up meat (vegans/vegetarians have an argument on the mass-produced stuff low in what we really need, but I'm not so sure in the good, more natural stuff), but enough to add a few more veggies to the plate and cook with better stuff.

[pokercat999]

32. May I suggest going to your local

library and borrowing a copy of Robbins "Diet for a New America" it's a good basic primer on the American food industry and vegetarianism.

[d.l.Green]

33. Excellent book! Mr. Robbins wrote in Men's Fitness so I bought the book...

never looked back. I've "progressed" into a raw food vegan and so has my partner. The drugs(including such "basics" as aspirin) have been banned from the household. What this study doesn't mention is that the results from a sudden change of diet are immediately noticeable and felt. You literally turn back the aging process and your body and mind thanks you every day.:thumbsup:

[d.l.Green]

36. BTW, my partner's a bodybuilder and he constantly gets questions about

how he stays so defined. The people in the gyms get so defensive about their diets when he tells them. He's a walking example that raw food vegans don't necessarily have to be thin. Sprouted nuts and lots of raw spinach/dark greens are the key...

[Stuckinthebush]

16. Isn't this interesting...

The researcher found that the raw food vegans were pretty damn healthy - healthier than the non-vegans. In fact, these vegans were kick-ass healthy. Even after acknowledging all of these results, the last line says:

"Fontana does not advocate a raw food diet. But he said that to lower the risk of cancer and heart disease people should eat more fruits, vegetables and whole grains."

Now, I'm not a raw food vegan, but I am a vegetarian. You would think that results that show the possible benefits of a certain diet would make the researcher say, "Well, I wasn't an advocate of a raw food diet, but damn, I might just well have become one!"

Instead we get the same old line.

[Occulus]

22. Um,

I heard that line about fruits, veggies, and whole grains when I was a little kid.

That advice is nothing new.

[Stuckinthebush]

38. I was speaking of the first sentence, not the second

Fontana has evidence that a vegan diet is very beneficial, yet he "doesn't advocate" one. That is the same old line. Keep eating your meat and dairy even though we have a lot of evidence to show that you would be better off canceling those items from your diet.

[Occulus]

69. ah, ok

Yeah, same old line. I wish they would just come out and say they have to support it because it's proven healthier.

But then they could be sued by Big Beef the way Oprah was...

How does one go about growing produce eight feet from a state game area? We get animals. They eat what we plant...

[Stuckinthebush]

70. Not a farmer

I have no clue. Hell, I can't even grow a potted plant.

[LiberallyInclined]

17. we went to karyn's in chicago for lunch...once-

and we won't be making a second visit anytime in this lifetime.

raw food is not for me- although i do try to follow a "caveman diet"(no starch), the cavemen have discovered fire, and with it- grilled meat, fish & poultry.

[freedom_to_read]

18. if you eat nothing but raw vegetables you'll live longer

... or at least it will feel that way.

[Elidor]

19. This part is unintentionally funny

"These people are clever enough to expose themselves to sunlight to increase their concentrations of vitamin D," Fontana said.

Yes, Mr. Scientist, these creatures are exhibiting traits of sentient animals! They're able to reason and adapt to their environment! We may even have to recognize them as distant human relatives! Why, look! They're using stone implements! Call the Geographic Society!

[thinkingwoman]

30. clever?

geesh.

I'm allergic to dairy products and avoid them like the plague. Thanks to the vegans, I have a wide variety of soy"milk" products to supplement my diet that just weren't available a decade ago. But even without them I was able to take in the needed vitamins. Imagine. The Sun.

Goddess bless the vegans!

P.S. Still laughing about the stone implements.

[vonSchloegel]

20. however,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/687996.stm

[Merope215]

21. That's a strange article

I mean, you could be a vegan and not eat anything but potato chips for the rest of your life, but obviously that would be stupid. Just like the vegetarians in the article said, you have to get lots of different kinds of food. Most of the vegans I know are more informed about what they're eating and what's in it than the rest of my friends, and healthier too. Sounds like this guy (and I feel bad for him) just wasn't really sure of how to plan a good vegan diet.

[Zan_of_Texas]

23. I rented a room from a raw food person for a week.

It was a really different diet -- the refrigerator had different stuff in it. She had an array of blenders for smoothies and stuff. Lotta chopping going on too. I guess she could have gotten rid of the stove completely!

She had made up some "egg salad"-like stuff, without eggs -- it was darn good.

Lots of use of nuts, dates, etc. it seemed.

The people I've seen who eat only raw foods are thin - sinewy. Not an ounce of fat on 'em.

[Merope215]

25. Yeah, I noticed that too

I've only met two raw foodies, both when I was working on an organic farm (so not entirely surprising, I guess). No fat at all, at least as far as I could tell. They both did heavy physical labor all day and ate fresh greens and vegetables straight out of the fields. I guess in some ways it was ideal. The farm used all restored machinery, nothing newer than 1930s, and tried to use manually operated machines whenever possible. They grew lots of really wonderful tomatos, too.

The raw foodies made us a pie using dehydrated cashews and dates as a crust with a melon filling, and it was damn good. I just couldn't see myself doing it unless I was living either on a farm or next door to a really good farmer's market. :P I tend to like my food warm.

[TexasSissy]

63. I think that's called emaciated?

Just kidding.

But seriously...how could they be thin eating dates and nuts, which are extremely high in calories and fat?

[prolesunited]

34. And that article proves what?

A spokeswoman said: "The problem with the man in question was that his diet was not balanced at all. Most vegetarians will normally take in cheese, dairy products and eggs and most vegans supplement their diets with soya milk and other foods, so they are getting vitamins and minerals.

"The essence of the situation is that if you are not having a balanced diet you are going to have problems. You need to take in as many different food sources as possible."

<snip>

"You have to really try to eat a poor diet to have the vitamin deficiencies of this man."


Vegetarians, vegans AND meat-eaters can make poor dietary choices that cause health problems. Would you like me to post articles about people who eat massive quantities of meat and have such problems as high cholesterol, heart disease, hardening of the arteries? Or how about people eating massive quantities of processed foods that have diabetes and are obese?

If you make poor dietary choices, you are going to have problems whether or not you consume meat or dairy products.

[Maple]

24. Butchers...murderers...

"Not only can plants communicate with each other and with insects by coded gas exhalations, scientists say now, they can perform Euclidean geometry calculations through cellular computations and, like a peeved boss, remember the tiniest transgression for months.

To a growing number of biologists, the fact that plants are now known to challenge and exert power over other species is proof of a basic intellect."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0303/p01s03-usgn.html

[livinginphotographs]

37. You're right.

I mean, since there's a distant distant chance that plants might feel pain despite not having a central nervous system, we should just say fuck it and start eating meat again. I mean, what's the point of trying. I'm off to go rip the trachea out of a live cow.

And while we're at it, no matter what we do, Iraqi civilians will still be killed by W's oil wars, the environment will be raped, and votes will be stolen. What's the point of trying?

You've convinced me, Maple. I'm just going to sit in a big pile of apathy and not give a shit about anything.

That was your point, right?

[Maple]

43. LOL no my point was

Vegans seem to have little sense of either irony or humor. :D

[livinginphotographs]

47. There are supplements for that.

n/t

[JackieO]

48. oh SNAP!

:toast:

[JPace]

67. "Butchers...murderers..."

LOL....yah but plants can't look you in the eye and scream while you dine on them. Its a good thing too cause they outnumber us in vast quantities and if they had the means we'd be served up for supper.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

26. Raw Food Vegans are tough as hell--they live forever

I know one guy who's owned a raw food restaurant for 20 years--They even serve bread that's uncooked and is pretty damn good-- Raw food pizza on a raw pizza crust--tons of great items--

But Raw food is not for everyone.
Ayurveda explains that different body types require different diets.

For those of you not familiar with it, google Ayurveda--one of the oldest sciences -

As far as food goes, we just gotta find our nitch-
and animal products are definitely better used in moderation
(The U.S =6% of the World's population--The U.S devours 60% of the worlds's cows)
Ever wonder why obesity is so rampant here in murika?

[anarchy1999]

28. Whoops, this study sure did not come out right in favor of industry and

corporations. How did it ever get to see the light of day? Do we have a few honest PhD's left?

[Dark]

29. I will NEVER be a vegetarian until they find a replacement for

brocoli and spinach

:puke:

[Stuckinthebush]

39. You and George Bush!

Do you remember when the elder Bush dissed broccoli and got the whole broccoli growers group hopping mad?

Don't piss off the broccoli guys! They have ways to make you pay!

:D

[Mairead]

60. Check out Chinese and Japanese cookbooks. They make

broccoli and spinich taste gooooooooood!

And of course they're very good for you, too.

[KayLaw]

31. I spoke to one in a health food store once

She was slim but not skinny and had shiny hair, clear eyes and smooth skin. She was just vibrant. When she mentioned she was 50, I could have fainted! She looked 30 at the most. We only talked for a few minutes, but I'll always remember her.

[AngryAmish]

40. Looks like an awful lot of Chicagoans should become vegans

[Lucky Luciano]

41. Wait a minute - ALL raw food?

So that means no bread...no rice...no pasta? There has to be some carbs somewhere, right?

Is the diet mostly beans, vegetables, and soy?

[phasev]

51. living foods

most raw foodists avoid soy. they eat sprouted nuts and seeds and fruits and vegetables.

http://www.living-foods.com is a great resource for raw foodists.

[glitch]

53. What a terrific site - thanks for the link!

I have been thinking about adding raw vegan dishes to my diet. Some of these look really yummu.

[d.l.Green]

54. Fruits, nuts&seeds(pre-sprouted), young coconuts, living saurkraut,

greens, vegetables, raw sweet potato chips w/raw humus(you wouldn't believe how great this tastes)... and for those in transition, raw shakes, dehydrated(low temp) or sun-dried fruits/cookies/flax crackers. The sky's the limit. The best advantage is that you'll get your taste buds back- you probably didn't even know they were gone- and a ripe piece of the most pedestrian fruit will taste like ecstasy!:D

[Redstone]

42. I still don't understand why they pronounce it "VEEGan."

Do they eat "VEEGtables?"

Not being critical, just curious.

Redstone

[flvegan]

46. We like making people mispronounce it.

It's part of our holier-than-thou attitude. We have an awards benefit each year, and the Dubya Bush Award goes to the vegan that witnessed more mispronunciations of the word "vegan" with extra points going for each instance of someone pronouncing it vay-gun.

[d.l.Green]

55. Sweet! n/t

[Megahurtz]

44. Raw foods are good and good for you.

And they taste good too.:9

[Emillereid]

45. The average time on the vegan diet was too short of time to reveal it's

B-12 deficiencies -- and more likely than not these people were taking nutritional supplements -- at least all the raw foodists I know take all sorts of supplements -- just in case they say. The average time on the diet was only 3.6 years -- probably not time enough to hurt their bones anyway.

And if the researchers thought they'd have low vitamin D or poor bones because of the lack of dairy products -- they were amazingly stupid. Many societies don't eat any dairy and have fine bones. Vitamin D from the sun and calcium from green leafy things.



"Because of their low calorie and low protein intake, raw food vegetarians have a low body mass index (BMI) and a low total body fat content. It is well documented that a low BMI and weight loss are strongly associated with low bone mass and increased fracture risk, while obesity protects against osteoporosis."

Fontana's team studied 18 strict raw food vegans aged 33 to 85. All ate a diet that included unprepared foods such vegetables, fruits, nuts, and sprouted grains. They had been on this diet for an average of 3.6 years."........

[phasev]

52. B-12 deficiency

B-12 deficiency is usually caused by POOR ABSORPTION of B-12 and not inadequate intake of it. There are many great sources of B-12 in the raw food diet including sea vegetables, nutritional yeast, wheatgrass, and others.

[Emillereid]

59. Those are B-12 analogs, not B-12. The human is unable to utilize them.

At least according to every nutrition text I own -- and I own a lot. Luckily ones stores of B-12 last a long time -- and most vegans supplement. Poor absorption is a problem -- especially for older folks. Nobody is telling vegans to eat meat -- just be aware of the facts. The chemistry and studies have been done -- and unfortunately plant sources are not sources of B-12 unless you eat them 'dirty' as the vegetarian Indians are apt to do -- they pick up their B-12 from insects clinging to the plants they eat. It can be a problem for transplanted Indian in the US.

This is the jist from nutritional bibles:
Plant foods may have some vitamin B-12 mainly from soil residues, but this is not a reliable source. The B-12 found in spirulina, sea vegetables, tempeh and miso has been shown to be an inactive form of the vitamin. Dairy products and eggs contain vitamin B-12, but still lacto-ovo vegetarians have been shown to have low blood levels. Supplementation and use of fortified foods is recommended, especially with vegans and older vegetarians. B-12 requirements are small and the vitamin is stored and recycled in the body, so deficiency symptoms may not be present for years. The RDA for vitamin B-12 is 2 mcg.

[livinginphotographs]

61. Who's suggesting vegans don't supplement?

It's recommended that even meat-eaters take dietary supplements.

The B12 issue is just a replacement for the "How do you get protein without meat?" question. Once that was answered (repeatedly, I might add), it seems the anti-vegs decided to move on to B12.

[Emillereid]

62. I could care less whether someone decides to be a vegan and forgo meat

or not, although I think it can be a risky proposition for infants and children unless one plans carefully. (One of the things I don't like for children is there tends to be a too great an emphasis of soy protein as the protein source -- as least how veganism is practiced in the US). I am not anti-veg. I have even given vegetarianism a go myself -- didn't do well on it -- I gained a great deal of weight and my tryglycerides went nuts -- too many carbs for my metabolism. But other people seem to do just fine. What one eats is personal -- unfortunately diet often takes on something akin to a religious mission. You don't eat meat and do fine -GREAT -- that leaves more for me. I don't eat rice and beans and isolated soy protein -- so that leaves more for you. It works out.

There are any number of ways that vegans can get vitamin B-12 -- even if they don't supplement B-12 directly many foods are fortified with the vitamin in this country.

[slackmaster]

50. Are tuna and yellowtail sashimi considered raw vegetables?

:D

[BadGimp]

56. yes they are

:9

[RebelOne]

57. NOT! n/t

[TexasSissy]

64. You mean no jelly beans? Or chocolate Easter bunnies? Or...

baked chicken? Or Italian cream cake? Or Key Lime Pie?

What would be the point of living?

[Vladimir]

68. Although to be fair

comparing 18 vegans, all of whome strictly control their diet (for obvious reasons) to the general population (if that is what 18 'average' Americans means) is a little bit silly. Well I say silly, I can see why they did it this way, but it doesn't really allow on to compare veganism to diets involving meat or other animal derivatives. I would have been utterly amazed if any diet could produce much worse effects than the barrage of quick/processed/packaged foods most of us gobble down each day...