Autopsy: Tasers 'enhanced' drowning (MI)

[struggle4progress]

By Lisa Roose-Church
Daily Press & Argus

A nationally known pathologist ruled Wednesday that Livingston County sheriff's deputies' use of tasers "enhanced" the drowning process in the death of a New Hudson man who died shortly after struggling with officers in a swampy area. <snip>

A Michigan State Police report released March 9 indicated that during the struggle Keiser's head "went in and out of the water several times prior to being apprehended." The report indicates that a sheriff's deputy "lifted Keiser's face out of the water," but Keiser continued to fight and allegedly "forced his face back into the water." <snip>

"They have repeatedly said there's no problem using tasers on people who are immersed or in water, and that's not true," Davis said. "We're going to send a notice of claim to Livingston County, Michigan State Police and to Taser Corp. indicating that this loss has been suffered and if they don't resolve the matter with us within 30 days, we will file a (lawsuit)." <snip>

Murphy agreed, saying, "There is nothing in the training that prevents a taser being used in a wet environment. However, I will say that there is nobody, I would hope, in their right mind that would use a taser while an individual is submersed (in water). <snip>

http://hometownlife.com/Brighton/News.asp?pageType=StoryCurrent&StoryArchiveID=95449&StoryID=11677&Section=Page%201&OnlineSection=Page%201&SectionPubDate=Thursday,%20April%207,%202005&RefDate=4/7/2005

[seriousstan]

1. Keiser reportedly choked a state trooper

According to a state police report, Keiser drove a bulldozer onto U.S. 23 in Hartland Township and was reportedly in the process of trying to break into a front-end loader when a state trooper approached him.

Keiser fled and when troopers caught up to him in the swampy area, he reportedly fought with them.

During the assault, Keiser reportedly choked a state trooper from the Brighton post to the point that he began to turn blue. Troopers used batons and pepper spray in an effort to control Keiser, who continued to fight.

County sheriff's deputies joined in the troopers' attempts to handcuff Keiser, using tasers on the man in an effort to subdue him and get him to release his hold on the trooper.

I would say his own actions and stupidity contributed greatly.

[struggle4progress]

2. I wasn't there and haven't seen any of the evidence, so ...

... I won't speculate on what happened.

You may indeed be right that Keiser behaved like a jerk; I don't know.

He is now, however, dead by drowning, with some help from a taser, according to a competent medical examiner, who has examined the evidence.

[DELUSIONAL]

3. do we have people here at DU who feel the need

to defend cops no matter what they do???

And does someone deserve to be executed for being a jerk???

[seriousstan]

6. Do we have people here at the DU who feel the need

to defend criminals no matter what they do???

And does someone doing the dirty job of dealing with these criminals deserve to be CHOKED TO DEATH???

Funny how all judgment is suspended because we don't have all the facts except when it comes to the point of determining that the police "executed" someone.

Perhaps you should join the police force and show us how you would be willing to die rather than "execute" a "jerk". Or would you rather just sit safely behind your computer and pass judgment on those who do the dirty work of trying to keep others safe?

[tkmorris]

7. Oh stop it.

For me the point is that the police did not HAVE to use what amounted to deadly force in this case, as in so many others that end similarly. They could have called in almost unlimited backup, they could have simply subdued the man with sheer numbers. Instead they chose to use whatever force they felt neccessary to render the man helpless and in the process killed him.

Did the man who died act in such a way that invited our ire? Sure he did. But the police duty in these cases is NOT to judge anyone, it is merely to deliver the suspect to a court where a jury or a judge will decide what level of guilt he has and what the punishment will be. As a society we do not want our police engaged in deciding whether a suspect should be killed or not. They should take every possible precaution to simply apprehend and deliver the person to those who do that.

You wrongly define this attitude as "defending a criminal". It isn't. It is defending the rights of someone who isn't even a criminal yet officially, merely a suspect. I do not hate the police, nor do I fail to appreciate the job they do and the dangers involved.

Tasers should be outlawed. Tasers kill people when administered in less than optimal circumstances, and police cannot know when that will be. If the target has a heart condition, or is elderly, or is on cocaine or other drugs, etc,. applying a taser can be a death sentence. Police need a better means to subdue suspects that does not run the risk of killing them, in effect trying, sentencing, and executing them on the spot.

[DELUSIONAL]

9. Evidently the answer to my question was yes

and since the person who responded was on my ignore list --


Just because a person is a "jerk" as judged by the cops -- and remember we only have the cop's word since the guy is dead and cannot defend his actions -- that is no reason to execute the guy.

There is a subset of cops in the US who are dangerously out of control -- they are called "rouge cops" and they are passed from department to department and from state to state.

Rouge cops is a subject of a book with a whole lot of research -- it is a problem that no one wants to consider -- namely that the "good" guys are shielding murderers, crooks and criminals who just happen to wear a badge.

As members of the public we have no assurance that the cop we encounter is NOT one of the rouge cops. These rouge cops can pull people from their cars and beat them -- and get away with criminal behavior. Women have been raped -- and the cops get away with it -- because who would believe her anyway??

Now we are hearing about the misuse of Tasers leading to the death of "jerks" -- and we seem to hear from cop defenders that it is fine to execute jerks.

Why have laws, judges and juries -- why don't we leave everything to the cops?

[LeighAnn]

4. Taser Watch

http://www.newsfromreality.com/taser/

[struggle4progress]

5. Thanks. I didn't know about the horn-honking granny.

"I said it was an accident. It's not like I laid on the horn; I honked, right in front of my house."
http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/3426924/detail.html

Ya think she woulda been gunshot if the nice policeman hadn't had his taser?

[DELUSIONAL]

10. This is an example of a rouge cop

It is very easy to honk a horn by mistake -- some of the cars seem to have a very sensitive horn.

This cop and the department should be sued -- since this seems to be the only way to get rid of rouge cops and put a mark on his record. Warning to the next cop shop that hires this jerk -- this asshole will cost you money due to the fact that he is a big stupid jerk.

[catnhatnh]

8. Oh for Christ sake...

...how long will people be taken in by police report BULLSHIT???Erase all the suspects actions and get to the part where a man in taser spasm "forces" his head back into the water while struggling with multiple officers.Does this suspect have the power to suspend the laws of physics and impose super-gravity??Other than that the only "force" he could impose was last read on his bathroom scale.

[Richard Steele]

11. And DROWNING is not an instant death.

Brain damage doesn't begin for several MINUTES after losing consciousness.

I didn't see any mention of these cops attempting to REVIVE this guy, after they held his head in a swamp until he passed out...