Julian Borger Names Karl Rove (Traitorgate)

[DEMActivist]

From Gene Lyons:
Tuesday, September 30, 2003

Julian Borger Names Karl Rove

"Several of the journalists are saying privately 'yes it was Karl Rove who I talked to.'"


Guardian audio report here. (about 1:20 in)

(thanks to the tip from sl)


Today:

The focus on Rove brought an odd twist to Bush's travels. When the president boarded Air Force One at Andrews Air Force Base outside of Washington, he walked up the steps and waved - and not a single camera followed. He looked momentarily perplexed. All lenses were trained on Rove at the bottom of the steps.

http://atrios.blogspot.com

[Brucey]

1. This is fantastic!

Rove in jail? That would be priceless!

[Langis]

5. See ya Rove

Hope you have fun in Jail for the next 3 to 10 years.

[denverbill]

7. hahahahah. Yeah right. Can you say "pardon" ? I knew you could.

[TacticalPeek]

13. Can you say historic electoral destruction for GOP? I knew you could.

[Guaranteed]

67. Save the party....Misleading headline...still good news, but not that good

Julian Borger did not, I repeat did NOT, name Karl Rove as calling him up and revealing Plame as CIA. Borger is not one of the six journalists. Borger merely gave a report saying that (like the quote above says) the reporters are saying in private that it was Rove. However, he also notes that the reporters have a duty to protect their sources, and that any reporter who gives up his/her source will be discredited. From his report it really does sound as if we're hearing the truth, that it really WAS Rove, but it's going to be more difficult to coax the info out of these reporters in order to prove it.
The CIA is going to have to leak more, and maybe put a little pressure on the reporters themselves to give them some motivation.

[markus]

71. Reporters and sources

Would a journalist reveal a source, guilty of a crime, when they didn't actually write or publish a story?

This is not a clear cut, open and shut case.

But forget the treason. Just get it into the papers slowly, regularly and painfully. Before you know it Rove is out the door.

And then the real infighting can begin.

The Bush WH would melt down completely.

[Guaranteed]

78. I think it's illegal...

...for someone to be handing out that information to anyone, even if they don't write a story about it.
Don't get me wrong...I think there is very little left protecting Rove. The feds know who these reporters are (Wilson told them who they are) and you can bet that the CIA already has all the evidence needed, anyway. It's all there. You just gotta crack the reporters, who technically are not protected constitutionally (look at the other Novak thread- there was a USSC case in 1972). It's all set up- the feds just have to knock the damned pins down. The media and the CIA will make sure they do that. They're the ones driving this, and it's still gaining steam.

[Voltaire99]

80. "Confidentiality" and its uses to corporate power: Rove will walk

One reason reporters protect sources is job security. Much of what is reported is learned on background; you only get good info if you prove trustworthy, which means being a good little useful messenger. Reporters are actually in the business of mainly shutting up.

So, in a larger sense, are our major media. Despite what Hollywood would have you believe about the glamorousness of covering scandal, Watergates aren't good for business (the Post took a terrible financial beating for its unpopular coverage).

Especially at this critical moment in propping up the illusions of the "war on terror" and also heading into the incredibly profitable mudslinging season - i.e., ad-rich election year - the US mainstream media will have less motivation than ever to expose the president's puppeteer.

I'd love to see Rove in chains, but I bet he weathers this one with some help from the media. Hope I'm wrong!

[tridim]

15. I don't think you can pardon traitors

Correct me if I'm wrong.

No doubt criminals like Ken Lay will be pardoned.

[Trek234]

31. First of all

The constitution says you MUST have 2 witnesses to the crime of treason. Are there two witnesses? No. So don't count on that charge to even begin with.

You don't even meet the other criteria for treason.

And yes, the president can pardon ANY national crime he so desires.

[JNelson6563]

37. maybe if 2 or more reporters

name Rove....

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. Minimum of 7 witnesses.

[Bandit]

48. Actually according to reports there are six different journalists that wer

approached with this "Leak". So I would imagine that at least two of them will testify.

[Bandit]

46. The President has a Constitutional Right to Pardon

There are no listed exceptions.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

57. Pardon=throat slit.

Chimp can do it, but c'mon. The very act is political death.

[Terran]

68. Agreed

Pardon a convicted traitor? Uh uh.

[Mechatanketra]

76. Actually, there's one listed exception.

A pardon can't reverse impeachment. But other than that, yeah, there are no real exceptions. As I've noted elsewhere, don't be surprised, if the exposure of corruption starts spreading far and wide, to see GWB become the first President in history to pardon himself (or try to). These people are that despicable.

[TacticalPeek]

77. Your superior imagination has reached their nadir.

And now that it is thought . . .

[dArKeR]

20. Can you say "Psychotic Breakdown'? Which Junior is going to have

because he is mentally unstable and will not be able to cope with being a real President. We know he can oder killings but he surely can't comprehend the complexities of managing the US. He will become more frustrated then he'll have a clinical breakdown. You'll notice the boils, pippples, come back like during the Coup of 2000.


We need a well educated and disiplined mind, such as Dr. Dean, to manage the WH.

[nocreativename]

39. don't forget

Rove is Bush's brain. so there will be no breakdown there just be nothing.

[Must_B_Free]

9. that's PER reporter!

(3 to 10) x 6!!! = 18 - 60 years for Rove, if not executed for treason.

[TacticalPeek]

14. Cooool. Yes, consecutive for the executive!

[Trek234]

32. And guess what?

For EACH of those counts you need TWO witnesses to even begin to have a possible charge of treason.

You can't combine each seperate instance in to one either. It must be PER CHARGE.

[TacticalPeek]

33. Wrong reference. Treason is not 3 to 10.

cf. Benedict Arnold.

[Nottingham]

43. Isn't it interesting he chose 6 reporters! Satan's number!

Karl you got trapped by your own Revenge!

[Trek234]

27. It's called a pardon

nt

[aquart]

2. And I hope his heart lurched to his stomach.

Could anything be a bigger tipoff that THINGS HAVE CHANGED?

[Coyul]

3. ...and the walls come tumblin' down...

...Miss J Geils(sp?) every once in awhile...

Bye Karl, you have served the reich well, there is a mountaintop retreat waiting for you, or perhaps a pig ranch somewhere in Texas!

On edit:
Left the "E" out of Reich, probably was just as accurate that way. :evilgrin:

[TacticalPeek]

12. on edit: 6 v 1/2 dozen.

[leftchick]

4. yes but.....

did cheney give him the go ahead? I can't believe anything that comes out of this corrupt WH is not without dickhead's approval...even karl's bigtime fuckup like this....

[Langis]

6. I get the feeling this was all Rove

As mush as I would like Cheney or Bush to have been the one to give the go ahead. I just have a feeling it was Rove alone that did it.

[Lorien]

38. I wonder if Wilson

was the one Rove was saying he would "F*ck as no one has ever f*cked him before" (paraphrase) from Al Franken's book? Sounds like he may have been drunk enough with his own power to do anything.

[OldCurmudgeon]

83. It can't have been JUST Rove

Does Rove have access to the identities of CIA covert operatives? Does he have "need to know"? I doubt it very much. Rove probably has a clearance, but details like covert identities, etc. are the kind of thing that would be kept away from political appointees, because they don't have "need to know".

If it was Rove that leaked, someone fed him the information. Someone in the chain of command, that could ask the CIA for Plame's identity. Maybe Rice, maybe Shrub. Probably not Cheney even.
I don't think Tenet would be willing to fall on his sword for something like this.

Burning Rove would be satisfying, but it goes MUCH further than that.

(on edit: remove attempted HTML in title)

[skip fox]

18. Scooter Libby will also fall

if there's a God in heaven. (But that vote is still out as well.)

[TacticalPeek]

22. There are SIGNS! Lord, help me, I'm seeing signs!

Maybe the Revelator was right.

[TacticalPeek]

26. Especially this!

Niger was Unka Dick's baby that Wilson called ugly. BELIEVE Cheney's oily prints WILL be found.

[MidwestTransplant]

34. COULDN'T BE ALL ROVE....

Who gave him classified info in the first place. This is bigger than just Rove....

[TacticalPeek]

35. Bigger? Tip of the iceberg.

Any investigation will expose a shadow Pentagon and shadow CIA, a la the Iran/Contra 'enterprise'.

[snippy]

56. I think the whole thing was a White House Iraq Group operation.

That means Andy Card, Rove, Rice, Stephen Hadley, Scooter Libby, Karen Hughes and Mary Matalin, among others.

I posted why I think it was the WHIG on another thread. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=440733#442189

[Wickerman]

8. He looked momentarily perplexed

Bullshit. How could you tell? Bush looks permanently perplexed. How about:

He looked particularly perplexed?

This is a priceless moment in time. Bush* on the run, Rove, his "braintrust" going down the tubes. Cheney ready to stroke out at any time. Condi in trouble, can't string together a sentence that sez a damn thing and her voice quakes as she does. Rummy tangential. Powell just lost. As someone said earlier - this is watergate in real time!

[TacticalPeek]

11. I could almost hear her teeth like a snare drum on Faux Sunday.

:)

[Gin]

21. Bush had a brain fart....its name was Rove...

I'm loving this.

[TacticalPeek]

24. Reverse that. "Rove had a brain fart....its name was Bush..."

[neuvocat]

36. Maybe more so than his usual expression.

His "deer in the headlights" look seems to be accepted as "normal".

[lightbulb]

53. hehe lunabush

That cracked me up! Needed that, thanks. :thumbsup:

[Bucky__Badger]

10. that's great, but it's not going to hurt Rove until this goes public

"Several of the journalists are saying privately 'yes it was Karl Rove who I talked to.'"



I believe it. However, until someone goes on record as saying "yes it was Rove" or he gets busted in an independent investigation, Rove is still out of jail.

However, the more people who are saying this, the more stink sticks to the bushies. There is hope. I'm feeling better. They may not skate on this!

[TacticalPeek]

17. Before this is over, KKKarl will be praying

for the investigation results as relief from his tribularions.

:evilgrin:

[Chovexani]

16. Eh, he'll get pardoned

And find a nice home in South America with all the other old Nazis.

[JoFerret]

72. Fox news

as a commentator after the obligatory (short)period for repentance.

[tridim]

19. Let's hope they don't go into 'scorched earth' mode

Game's over guys. Just get the hell out of Al's house you assholes.

[Nottingham]

23. OMG!!! GET OUT!! This is just getting to be AMaZING!

The News Media is just going crazy!! I love it!

:party:


:chug: Oh this is got to have the Bush club Freakin Out!!

[expatriot]

25. you know what they always say about cutting the head off the monster...

yippee!!!!!

[TacticalPeek]

30. And what they say about striking kings.

Someone at the Agency has already gamed this out to THE END!

[aquart]

61. In this case, who's the king? Bush? Rove? Cheney?

Or someone so dark and secret we will never see his middleaged caucasian face?

[The Magistrate]

28. Excellent News

This thing is not going to go away.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Fovea]

29. If they let Karl go

It means they are toast.
They will only cut Karl if it
goes as high as Bush himself.

And really, this is the sort of
game that Bush revels in.
It is the kind of thing Barb
would have been in charge of.

This is way past Donald Segretti stuff,
This is even past George Mitchell stuff.
This is tricky Dick country.

[kskiska]

40. It's been said all along

They'll be brought down by their own arrogance and delusions of invincibility. After 3-4 years the complacency has settled in and they thought they could get away with anything.

[Junkdrawer]

41. So from here on in, Rove lives in limbo...

everyone "knows" he did it, Reporters and Ashcroft won't prove he did it. So, what, he stays on as a permanent liability? Sweet.

[NNN0LHI]

44. I have never heard of this atrios.blogspot.com before

Does anyone have any information about it?

Don

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

45. If it wasn't Demactivist I would have asked, too.

[Junkdrawer]

47. One of Tom Tomorrow's top blog picks...

http://www.thismodernworld.com/pages/lin/lin_fr.html

[NNN0LHI]

50. Thank you for the info n/t

[remfan]

52. Eschaton is a great blog, Don

My 3 regular haunts - Eschaton, Talkingpointsmemo, and DU.

[DEMActivist]

55. Atrios = one of the heaviest travelled lefty blogs

right up there with Daily Kos. Also one of mediawhoresonline's favorites.

I suspect Mark Crispin Miller will give him a run for the money now that he's got one too. (http://markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com)

[SidDithers]

59. Atrios, along with Josh Marshall, are largely credited....

with breaking the Trent Lott / Jesse Helms story, for which Lott eventually resigned his position as Senate Majority Leader.

Here's CalPundit's list of the Koufax blog awards. Atrios won for best blog and best series (Trent Lott)

http://www.calpundit.com/archives/000981.html

Sid

[TacticalPeek]

74. Except it was Strom 'Miscegenator' Thurmond, not Helms. n/t

[TacticalPeek]

73. Very cool site. Interesting and educational comment threads.

Best troll-handling I've seen, merciless.

And they're very fast on uptake from a WIDE variety of sources.

Recently, I think they even spun off a seedling blog or two.

:)

[Dr Fate]

49. Visions of Karl literally crapping his pants...

...and frantically calling Fox news, CNN and NBC demanding: "I dont care HOW you do it- SPIN this ASAP.."

[FlemingsGhost]

51. Please forgive me, but just one more time... For Karl.

Theatre of the Absurd

Karl Rove is a one-trick pony
The little man he protects: a phony
Decieve and distract,
is this show's only act
He'll look good in prison orange, won't he?

-------------
11/23/02

I just knew this fool would crash and burn.
Nearly all criminals do, in the end.

[darknemus]

54. Has anyone seen the article on Newsmax?

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/29/220207.shtml

Let me excerpt a couple quick bits from it.

6) Clearly whoever orchestrated this anti-Wilson campaign was looking for payback - payback for having the temerity to challenge the veracity of the President of the United States. But their anger took them over the edge into lawbreaking. Who in this disciplined, top-down, well oiled White House would read Wilson's op-ed and slam his fist down on the desk and proclaim, "That bastard is going to pay! What do we have on him? Let's get it out there!"



9) There is still the question of whether or not the Ashcroft Justice Department will honestly investigate the Bush White House. Already Capitol Hill Democrats are calling for an Independent Counsel to do this investigation. But that law expired and has not been renewed.


10) Meanwhile over at the Langley HQ of the CIA, there is much disgust over the way they are always made the scapegoats by this White House. After all, CIA Director Tenet had kept the African uranium tale out of the Cincinnati speech last October that helped escalate the case for a pre-emptive war against Iraq. But if heads don't roll over the Plame leak, you can bet that CIA will leak things of their own about the Bush White House.



Umm, if Newsmax is writing stuff like this - then we might actually really have a chance of this administration crumbling :)

-darknemus

[Rose Siding]

58. That does look like a shift in tone

Welcome to DU darkemus :hi:

[TennesseeWalker]

69. Newsmax. I'm speechless.

I think our long national nightmare is nearly over. I actually feel better now that a right wing publication has seriously started to cover this. I'm glad they have SOME standards. America may still be alive after all. :)

[Corgigal]

60. Question

Remember back when Clinton was being investigated for years and years. I use to tell my friends that the Republicans must trust him if they have such a need to screw with the President.

That said, I don't trust any of these jerks at the Bushie WhiteHouse. I don't think he can handle this type of stress. We are talking about a rich little boy who drank and dabbled in drugs until at least 40. While I want them all gone, I hope if they go then go quietly.

[Manix]

62. Knock Rove out of there and the whole rotten filthy structure of BushCo

will come crashing down!

[DemVet]

82. Do you really want to say this quote?

It's too similar to:

"All you have to do is kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will crumble to the ground." -Adolf Hitler, on the invasion of Russia

I don't think modifying Hitler's quote or comparing us to Nazis is proper. That's just me, though. :)

[peacetalksforall]

63. $50,000

A fine of $50,000 or some time. That's the penalty for breaking the disclosure law. Do you know how paltry 50 thou is to the richest people in the world?

No one discusses the other possibility...Asscraft will let this die, the cabal will get Murdoch, GE, and Time-Warner to drop discussions, the thing will go dormant and after a year Asscraft will announce that he's closing down the investigation for lack of a case.

So forget jail...Rove just might be sent to TX to strategize in a new office opened just for Karl and Karen.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

79. If the CIA isn't happy about the trial outcome

I'm sure they won't let it drop. They are pissed and they must have all sorts of stuff on Bushco. I can imagine that we'll keep seeing more and more dirt surface on them until the CIA feels vindicated. It wouldn't surprise me if the CIA knows something about vote tampering in the last few elections. :-)

[kodi]

64. you folks do realize that BILL CLINTON made unkie karl do it?

if clinton had not left all that gay porn laying around in drawers in the white house, this would never had happened. rove just recognized his latent tendenicies and struck for a handsome guy like wilson, he figured that mrs wilson would get assassinated, then wilson would be free to be courted by rove.

it is ALL bill clinton's fault.

and maybe a little hiliary's too.

:tinfoilhat:

but mark my words, before this is settled we will hear even stranger explanations for a clear act of treason.

[scarface2004]

65. rove will pin it on bush!!

and the stupid fuck will thank him for it!!

[maggrwaggr]

66. will Karl fire Karl?

Who's gonna fire the actual man behind the curtain?

[TennesseeWalker]

70. Rove gets too much credit for this bunch's success.

Most of the credit (read: blame) belongs to the American people, who are so intellectually lazy that they don't even care enough to vote in most cases. Those who do vote hardly ever know anything about the issues that affect them.

We have the government that most of America deserves. You have to put out some effort to get good government. It used to be called "good citizenship".

I for one am sick to death of suffering due to the ignorance and laziness of the masses. This administration has been a giant wakeup call for the American people, and has been a godsend for the left. Nothing like a crisis to get people mobilized and involved.

The people won't be as easily fooled for a long, long time.

[NashVegas]

75. Text Link to the Guardian Story

Oh, this part is gonna be fun:

FBI investigators will also subpoena telephone records from the White House in an attempt to pin down the source of the leak.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1053191,00.html

[Junkdrawer]

81. A Julian-style kick

:kick: