Rift opens between border watch groups

[question everything]

Wednesday, June 1, 2005

Rift opens between border watch groups

By: WILLIAM FINN BENNETT - Staff Writer

As the July start-up approaches of a Minuteman Project-style watch along the U.S.-Mexico border in East San Diego County, the two groups spearheading the effort have had a falling-out, officials with those organizations said Tuesday.

Chino resident Andy Ramirez heads up an organization called Friends of the Border Patrol, and Oceanside resident James Chase leads a group called the United States Border Patrol Auxiliary. Both anti-illegal-immigration groups are putting together volunteers to fan out along the border this summer, observe illegal immigrants crossing into the United States, and report them to the U.S. Border Patrol. Chase's will be on the border starting July 18, while Ramirez's group will begin its watch Aug. 1, the men say.

This month, Ramirez posted a press release on his Web site, stating: "We ... informed Mr. Chase that we shall not have anything to do with his organization under any circumstance." On Tuesday, Ramirez said he refused to be associated with Chase or his organization because he doesn't like Chase's approach or the use of the Border Patrol in his group's name.

Chase defended his use of the Border Patrol in his group's name and said Tuesday that he felt Ramirez was spreading lies about him.

More..
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/06/01/news/top_stories/11_52_485_31_05.txt

Contact staff writer William Finn Bennett at [phone] or [e-mail].

[Sandpiper]

1. The KKK and Skinheads don't usually get along either

Not surprising that different anti-Mexican groups have the same problem.

[deacon2]

2. What a great movie!

Armed idiots angry with each other for promoting the same simple-minded bilge. Is it too mean to hope for a Hatfield and McCoy type dust up in Act II?

[FiveGoodMen]

3. The Judean People's Front!

Splitters!

[mikeytherat]

14. No! The People's Front of Judea!

And, really, what have the Romans done for us?

mikey_the_Rat

[DeaconBlues]

4. very curious

Its curious how only negative stories about the border patrol groups get posted here, and the members of these groups are still portrayed as violent and racist, even though the Minutemen patrols this spring were carried out this spring without one incident. In fact, the only people who have turned violent are those people who are happy with the fact that our borders leak like sieves:

http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=3398209&nav=HMO6aQYq

"Two hurt, six arrests in Orange County protest of 'Minutemen'

A protest against the founder of the border-watching Minuteman Project turned violent when demonstrators hurled rocks and unopened soda cans at police and people attending the event, Garden Grove, California authorities said Thursday...."

I guess its just too much to ask people to let go of their preconcieved prejudices (like implying certain groups are like the Klan or skinheads without any evidence to back up the supposed similarities).

[zipplewrath]

6. Motives tend to suggest methods

It is unfair, but we tend to presume methods from the motives expressed. It's not that a person who is concerned about illegal immigration has to be a xenophobe, it's just that it usually works out that way. Not all people who object to homosexuality are homophobes, but it can be hard to distinguish the difference. Someone who chooses to watch for poor immigrants attempt a nearly death defying trip across the desert, on land already guarded by border patrol, when there are so many more specific threats out there kinda runs the risk of having folks jump to conclusions. That people would use these presumptions as a pretext for violence is inexcusable.

[DeaconBlues]

11. I'm sorry

I guess I was just expecting more from a forum that is supposedly used by people who are open-minded and progressive thinking.

As far as most people who are against illegal immigration being racist and xenophobic, I guess that would make most people, including the majority of Hispanics, racist and xenophobic.

[zipplewrath]

13. Not sure why

Progressive is probably in the mind of the holder so to speak. But anti-immigration policies has rarely ever been considered progressive. It's why "progressives" tend to call them "undocumented aliens" instead of "illegal aliens". I didn't see alot of Hispanics running around the desert with guns and the other "minute men". But yes, Hispanics as a group tend to be horribly racist. They discuss it frequently. Have some friends, the husband is Puerto Rican and the wife is Brazilian. The discuss the clash between the two families all the time. It's a legacy thing and they'll get over it quickly just like the rest of us did when we were immigrants.

But this is an advocacy forum, which doesn't tend to lend itself to "open mindedness". Folks around here have already tended to form a core set of values. It is a forum for the discussion of the application of those core values amongst people who share them.

[CarinKaryn]

8. Its pretty obvious what the minutemen's motives are

They're a bunch of fearful white racists.

The real question is: Why are you defending them?

[DeaconBlues]

10. what evidence do you have that they are racists?

Perhaps some of them have less than noble motivations, but perhaps many feel as I do. That is, they are tired of wages for the working poor who are here legitimately being kept low because of illegals who work for next to nothing. Or perhaps they are tired of the safety net in this country (education, medical care, etc.)being eaten away by people who have contributed nothing in the way of taxes, etc. Or perhaps they are concerned about what potential security threats are coming across those unprotected borders (criminals, terrorists, etc.).

The true question is: why do you support the pro-corporate, pro-Bush agenda - an agenda that erodes the economic well-being of both native-born citizens and those who foreign-born citizens and residents who went through the trouble of actually using legal means to come to this country.

[radwriter0555]

15. Well considering it's not actually illegal to COME to the USA, it's just

not legal to cross in areas not designated as ports of entry....

Most people come here legally.

They just outstay the allotted time!

[Wwagsthedog]

5. Wonder if these guys were trained in Columbia?

By guess who........

[GoldenOldie]

7. Minutemen are comparable to what we in the Southwest call

Only the Minutemen who loudly proclaimed their appearance on our borders of AZ and Mexico as defenders came at the most opportune seasonal time. The soon fled on to cooler climes when temperatures began to rise and it became a little uncomfortable for the "Minutemen," to pursue their bravado.

Time for the border lottery to begin to see how long the new guys from California last in the 112-120% temperatures.....and this is in the shade.

[underpants]

9. Excuse me. Are you the Judean People's Front?

F**k off! We're the People's Front of Judea

[jazzjunkysue]

12. Gee: Are the pretend cops fighting for pretend turf?

Anyone see the Gangs of NY? How about the Gangs of New Mexico?

[UTUSN]

16. BwahahahahHAH! Lock'n'LOAD, Boys! n/t

[Strawman]

17. Hit it, Mr. Banjo player!

:popcorn: