Can the rich, famous save Social Security ? (USA Today)

[Catchawave]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20050601/ts_usatoday/cantherichfamoussavesocialsecurity

Can Tiger Woods save Social Security?

The question is not as far-fetched as it sounds. President Bush broke political orthodoxy April 28 when he proposed that Social Security benefits grow more slowly for "better off" workers than low-income workers.


The president's proposal raised the tantalizing question: Can Social Security be fixed on the backs of the wealthy - leaving most Americans unscathed?


The populist theme of targeting the affluent has become one of the most talked-about approaches for solving the retirement system's financial problems. Like his call for individual investment accounts, the president's willingness to discuss treating the rich and poor differently has opened a new chapter in the Social Security debate.


Taxing all income and capping benefits would fix Social Security - mathematically, at least. The program would run a permanent surplus if all income - including the millions earned by athletes, movie stars and corporate tycoons - were subject to the 12.4% Social Security tax and if benefits for the affluent were capped at current levels, according to the Social Security Administration.

...more...

[BlueJazz]

1. Well...It sounds Fair...it sounds right...and it sounds like the .....

...easy intelligent way to fix the system.

The idea is Doomed...

[rocktivity]

2. Remove the salary cap altogether, and the rate can be lowered

for everyone. That's even more fair and intelligent--especially if you roll back the tax cuts, too.

:headbang:
rocknation

[undergroundpanther]

6. De-fund the black ops black hole

See how much money in taxes actually goes to corporate welfare to bullshit bureaucracies that push pointless paper around, and how much is blown supporting churches,and to make shiny new killing devices we don't need any more of..If we could require, presidents and help populations alike to grow up in their minds learn empathy over defenses,let people be who they are if they don't hurt anyone,encouraged more people to realize equality and compassion works better than war and hierarchy in building a better world,if we,helped more people to face past traumas,to heal from traumas,and taught them how to cope with stress without inflicting traumas to others,and to not be excused for bullying , helped people to discover what their own happiness might be,taught them to respect and understand what consent is and why we need each other,and society could face their fears instead of projecting them,and be responsible for their own reactions including their lack of compassion, to others who are not causing them harm ....than maybe we won't need to act out this shit,maybe we won't be so defensive we make excuses for being greedy, or create problems that create the reactions that give governments permissions to act out mass fantasies with wars, and blow good money on expensive world domination weapons and silly sadistic psy ops and /experiments that should be going to education or health care. Did you know if there was equal wealth distribution in America we'd all be millionaires? Talk about "growing the economy."

If the world is scar and bad,One way to stop it from staying that way is to own your own emotions,stop threatening others for existing and taking away their happiness and sustenance because you are scared,insecure,greedy or getting off on domination..
WE all want to be happy in our 8 or so years here.. We long to be accepted .We want to have a comfortable state of mind and to reduce stress and love our lives.We want to create,explore,share and learn and we want to be needed and respected and loved.

We don't like being bullied dominated oppressed abused used and lied to conned and hurt.


We can begin healing from this mass fantasy we call the way things are by insisting our leaders put their money where their mouths are and making sure they play no games. WE can help bring peace by taking care of the most serious needs of people around us first,

No new yacht for billionaire Joe until billionaire Joe learns the value of sharing wealth with others so poor people who worked for Joe who made him rich who are starving because billionaire Joe is a piggy, can understand why giving back to whom you take time,effort labor from won't be tempted to steal his yacht and sell it for shelter and food.

Humans cannot co exist in peace with each other living in a top down artificial belief driven bullying happiness killing,greed driven, hierarchical system that keeps it's order by exploiting the ego charge one gets from being above another in this false class structure..DEsigned by the few so the few and most ruthless manipulators can feel safe from the demands of survival and get all the fruits of civilization we all help make but most will never taste,No one can have this"success" while everyone else suffers without injustice.... We will not have peace in this world until everyone has SOME, enough of the fruits of civilization and a feeling of happiness in themselves.respect and autonomy to feel like society is not out to destroy them..


War is not a need for anyone, but the people who profit off of war are who don't care about others, and they use war to keep the wealth to themselves.Needs are the things in Maslows hierarchy of needs starting with clean air water,good food,decent shelter and the other emotional needs like autonomy,participation in power, to not be abused,ignored,or scapegoated,respect,love..., It's people being deprived of these things in relationships clamoring to their leaders who are just as traumatized and scared of life as they are is what starts wars,

If you have done nothing to be defensive over..than what use do you have for all these rationalizations and defenses for more weapons,spies,lies,power grabbing, propaganda or cons? Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..

[Catchawave]

4. My question.....how much money does one need ?

Tiger can spare a few more dollars that's for sure, and in his business, he can be washed up by 40 anyhow. Maybe "liberal" Hollywood can support this ?

And yes, this makes the most sense, but have a feeling the gazillionaires will make us pry this money from their cold dead fingers :sigh:

[cpamomfromtexas]

5. The rich can workaround this

So they'll just take their "salary" via a subchapter s, or they'll take it all in options instead.

Rest assured, they'll get around it somehow!

[JDPriestly]

3. The point with Social Security is that

you pay in and you get back in proportion to what you have paid in, regardless of whether you are rich or poor. The system has always favored the poor, but it has always given enough to the better off to make them support it. Bush wants to create a wedge issue and separate the "rich" elderly from the "poor" elderly. But, how do you define rich and poor? Is someone rich because he/she had some high earning years long ago? Is someone rich because he/she owns a house that has appreciated in value? What if that person has very little cash? Do you want your widowed mom to have to sell the house she has lived in for a long time, live off the proceeds and either move in with you or into a one-room apartment in order to qualify for Social Security benefits? Is that called living in dignity in your senior years? Wouldn't it be counterproductive to cut the Social Security benefits for people who scrimp and save for retirement in their youth and middle age?

No. The solution is to leave the program as it is and work to get full employment in the economy -- and to especially provide good jobs for older people so that they will be motivated to continue to work and pay into the Social Security system.

If a shortfall in Social Security funds arises, it will be partly because of the Bush administration's pilfering of the treasury to pay off his corporate friends such as Halliburton, et al. and waste due to the Iraq war and his other overseas ventures. But, it will also be due to the fact that, overall, wages are not increasing and are, in fact decreasing. Social Security taxes are paid to the government as a percentage of wages. When wages go down, so do Social Security revenue. Bush's problem is that the economic "recovery" he brags about is jobless. The CEOS are getting huge raises, but they aren't hiring more employees, especially not in the U.S.

Based on my circle of friends and acquaintances, the current unemployment figures do not begin to reflect the extent of unemployment and underemployment in America today. Teachers are losing jobs in California right and left -- due to budget cuts at the state level. That's just one group that is going to be unleashed on the weak labor market in the next few months. The LA Times printed an article yesterday about how 17-18 year-olds can't find entry level jobs because older workers are taking them. I have also heard that the highest levels of unemployment are among middle aged women. Middle aged women tend to give up looking after a long period of unemployment. So unemployment -- especially long-term unemployment is actually quite widespread. One telling sign in California is the huge, disproportionate number of people rushing out to get real estate licenses -- so many that there aren't enough houses on the market for them to sell. Many of these are people know they are smart, but also know they can't get other jobs. Going into real estate gives them the hope of becoming independent and making good money without having to apply for a "job," a hopeless endeavor. Look around you and you will find lots of signs of a weak labor market. Bush doesn't want to admit it, but that is the only real threat to Social Security that is imminent.

It's impossible to get the truth on the unemployment figures from the Bush administration, but I assure you it has been grim for years and is getting much grimmer since Bush became president.

[undergroundpanther]

8. I am on Disability

And I'm not gonna work until workplace bullying is stopped. I can't take the stress of dealing with being totally dependant on assholes who could care less about me if thier bottom line is not fat enough.

I dont trust business people to care,I don't think they give a shit abou tme or my happiness enough to ensure I feel any devotion to the job they'd offer me.I want happiness and liberty more than mo-money.. Call me a cynic but until business shares the wealth more, and gives to thier workers like they value them,and lets people be themselves and quit acting like little hitlers because they OWN you for whatever hours,they can go fuck themselves.

I'd rather starve than serve a tyrant abuser in a suit and do work that makes me feel sick inside because it violates my consience. I don't trust businesspeople in general ,I don't expect them to have any ethics especiallly when they get off on authority and do those silly workplace therapies to manipulate you. A person has to shut down a part of thier own soul to fire people and force them to find another job..And do this cruelty when all you want is more profit beyond what is already making you wealthy cutting corners to maximize proffit for the rich by shafting workers is evil if a business is doing well..I don't want to be a friggin team player with a team that is cooperating on the surface but an internecine fight for survival with a smile..Why should I play this sick game if I can't even stand the whole stinking lie system without going crazy and wanting to kill people? a
Anyway...I have had enough abuse by bullies and so called"elites"in my life so I ain't gonna make myself lose it again by dealing or associating with the likes of these power freaks and greedheads again...My heart can't take it.

[JDPriestly]

10. I hope you have seen the documentary

entitled "The Corporation." If you haven't please watch it.

[earth mom]

9. You're right-the unemployment figures are incorrect.

I'm a sahm and do a little eBay...and there are TONS of middle aged people, retired and elderly doing eBay instead of working real jobs or going for a Real Estate license. I see lots of em at garage sales, estate sales, and thrift stores. Hey,it's one way to make ends meet! But make no mistake...the competition for stuff is getting to be something fierce and may only get worse with more and more out of work. It will be an all out war at the thrift store if they take away S.S.! LOL! Because we all know that Social Security is the real lifeline-something we've all kept in our back pockets since we started working.

I know a couple of couples who have done very well in life and who don't need social security at all. But you know what? They want it-they want it bad! They are counting on it and they are excited about getting it. They feel they deserve it, even though they have a huge piece of the pie so to speak and really don't "need" that money. I even pointed out to one gal who was gloating about her impending S.S. payment that my DH and I-who are in our mid 40s-might not get ours. She did not respond. So yeah, on one hand I feel a tad resentful toward her and her age group, and on the other hand I'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she feels bad for DH and I who have together paid into S.S. for a total of 50 years. Frankly, and I know I'll get slammed for this, but this has led me to feel that I don't think it's fair that she should get hers and we should NOT get ours.

IMO-It should be either ALL OR NOTHING FOR EVERYONE. :hide:

[amandabeech]

7. The rich aren't paying sufficient income taxes and capital gains taxes

to cover the budget deficit which has been run up protecting U.S.-based companies around the world. They also hold a disproportionate share of the market wealth generated by sending U.S. jobs offshore and by holding down U.S. wages. If we didn't have the accumulated debt, we would have much, much less difficulty funding Social Security far into the future and would be able to make a better stab at the huge Medicare liability looming out there.

Charging them more for the pensions and disability to make up for the other money they take out of the system seems fair to me.

I would also favor a Social Security/Medicare tax surcharge on capital gains above a certain amount per year, particularly on gains from securities issued in lieu of cash compensation.

[endarkenment]

11. SS is for everyone including the 'rich'.

That is why it has survived and is overwhelmingly popular. Any proposal to means test or scale benefits is an attempt to kill SS by turning it into welfare.

And 'the rich' is 'anybody who makes more than you do'. It is a massively subjective attribute.

Universal old age pensions are just that: universal.

SS: it aint broke don't fix it.

[Catchawave]

12. Exactly.....great thoughts

...and thanks for sharing.

Sidebar: For some reason, I think I can live off a million+ dollars today and be happy knowing that my SS contribution will be there when I'm an old out of work fart and I'm no longer welcomed on the Red Carpet.

[Iowa]

13. Right!

Means testing is just one more way to kill SS, and Bush will do it any way he can, even if it takes two or three generations to accomplish his goal. Republicans have always hated SS; and they'll take whatever they can get if it will ultimately kill the program.

[obxhead]

14. sounds like a 2008 platform to me

[shawn703]

15. The problem with that approach though

Is that Social Security then becomes closer to welfare if most of the benefits go to the poor. While that's probably the way benefits should be dispersed, unfortunately it makes SS less popular with the American people and thus easier to destroy later.