Religion, suicide terrorism link disputed

[trof]

Wait a minute...I thought they "hated us for our freedom".
I thought they were a bunch of bloodthirsty religious nuts.
Could it all boil down to trespassing?
Are "we" just somewhere we're not wanted?
Gee, I think there's a pretty simple solution.
Leave.
trof


Religion, suicide terrorism link disputed in book
03 Jun 2005 18:02:15 GMT

Source: Reuters

By Patricia Wilson

WASHINGTON, June 3 (Reuters) - A surge in suicide attacks in Iraq and elsewhere around the world is a response to territorial occupation and has no direct link with Islamic fundamentalism, according to the author of a new book who has created a database of such bombings over the past 25 years.

Robert Pape, associate professor of political science at the University of Chicago, said most suicide terrorists were well-integrated and productive members of their communities from working-class or middle-class backgrounds.

A broad misunderstanding of the issue, he said, is taking the U.S.-led war on terrorism in the wrong direction and could in fact be fueling an increase in suicide terrorism.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N03257406.htm

[drdon326]

1. DUPE !!!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x92979

[trof]

2. Wow! SIX Exclamation points!

Could be overki!!.
;-)

[eallen]

3. I'll believe that when non-believers in those nations do the same.

It is one thing to say that Islamic fundamentalism isn't the sole cause. It is quite another to say it has no relationship to the phenomenon. When the secular liberals in those nations join the Islamic fundamentalists in committing suicide bombings, then that claim starts to have some bite. Until then, it is laughable. :eyes:

[bemildred]

4. What makes suicide bombers tick?

Since the signing of the Oslo Agreements in 1993, Palestinian terrorist organizations have sent more than 70 suicide bombers on missions against Israeli targets. Fortunately, not all succeeded in their missions like Hotary. Last month Yediot Aharonot presented a profile of the typical suicide bomber:
47% of the suicide bombers have an academic education and an additional 29% have at least a high school education.
83% of the suicide bombers are single.
64% of the suicide bombers are between the ages 18-23; most of the rest are under 30.
68% of the suicide bombers have come from the Gaza Strip.

---

Mouin Rabbani, director of the Palestinian American Research Center in Ramallah, claims, "Religious or ideological fervor appears to offer only a partial explanation." Rabbani says "Palestinian suicide bombers are neither products of a passive and unquestioning obedience to political authority nor pressed into service against their will."

Instead, Rabbani states that the common thread among all suicide bombers is the "bitter experience of what they see as Israeli state terror."

"Without exception, the suicide bombers have lived their lives on the receiving end of a system designed to trample their rights and crush every hope of a brighter future… Confronted by a seemingly endless combination of death, destruction, restriction, harassment and humiliation, they conclude that ending life as a bomb - rather than having it ended by a bullet - endows them, even if only in their final moments, with a semblance of purpose and control previously considered out of reach."
From Middle East News Online

http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/security/articles/sec_0049.htm

[PurityOfEssence]

5. Find me ONE case of a suicide bomber who didn't believe in an afterlife

One, that's all I ask.

But yet the overriding societal bigotry is that religion is good. Religion is better than not believing. Those who believe are much better human beings.

9-11 changed virtually nobody's mind; it just amplified prejudices that were already there. Falwell saw it as god's wrath for tolerating homos and abortion; I saw it as yet another murderous act by believers who don't like competing assumptions.

Islamic fundamentalism gives people the excuse and motivation for sucide bombing. It's not the only religion that does it, it just DOES IT REALLY WELL. Without the sugarcandy mountain dreamland waiting where the big Skydaddy will pat you on the head and give you the approval you were denied in life, I don't think people would willingly kill themselves in such great numbers. The belief in an afterlife is a scourge to mankind: it's responsible for endless justifications for taking the lives of others.

Not only that, having to hang out for eternity with 72 virgins sounds like sheer hell.

[bemildred]

7. Religion defends itself:

Recent research into the causes of terrorism by Robert A. Pape who teaches political science at the University of Chicago reveals much of this thinking to be flawed. Pape reports in a recent New York Times op-ed piece that he has compiled a database of every suicide bombing and attack around the globe from 1980 to 2001. According to Pape's research, there have been 188 such attacks, including those of Sept 11 and the long series that seems to continue without end in Israel, and now in Iraq. Pape defines a "terrorist attack" as any incident in which at least one person kills himself or herself while attempting to kill others. His data reveals that there is "little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism." He continues: "In fact, the leading instigator of suicide attacks is the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, a Marxist-Leninist group whose members are from Hindu families but who are adamantly opposed to religion." The Tamil Tigers are responsible for 75 of the 188 incidents in Pape's database. By this reckoning, atheists are responsible for more terrorist attacks than religious extremists.

---

There are three main conclusions that arise from Pape's research. First, it is counter productive to focus on the question, "Why do they hate us so?" Suicide terrorists are not generally motivated by blind rage, but rather a sharply focused, strategic objective. We must remember at this point that Osama Bin Laden's clearly articulated goal was to drive the US out of the Middle East and Israel out of the Palestinian homelands. Second, what is happening in the world today is not radically new. Rather, we are witnessing the continuation of a struggle that has been ongoing for hundreds of years and intensifying in the twentieth century: namely, the struggle for self-determination among the peoples of the world. And finally, it is counter productive to send US troops as an occupying force into countries that are a breeding ground for terrorists. The example of Israel should be instructive at this point in that the more aggressively Israel pursues the terrorists into the occupied territories while at the same time building and defending Israeli settlements on land formerly owned by Palestinians, the more motivation the suicide bombers have in striking back.

http://christianity.about.com/cs/warandpeace/a/terroristmyths.htm

[K-W]

9. That is a bad argument.

Most Human beings believe in an afterlife, thus it has nothing whatsoever to do with suicide bombings. This author correctly links suicide bombings to thier actual cause, oppression.

We make the religious excuse because it allows us to look past the simple issue at hand and that is, what could motivate someone to give up thier own life in such a manner. The answer is something pretty damn horrible, but we in the US want to ignore the horrible things we do to mulsims and the horrible things our allies in thier countries do to them.

[bennywhale]

10. Tamil tigers

[CJCRANE]

12. I don't buy

that 72 virgins stuff as being the motivation. For starters there are accounts that some of the 9/11 hijackers had girlfriends, took cocaine, went to strip joints and flashed around wads of cash.

Also compare secular killers like the Columbine killers who also dreamt of crashing planes and blowing things up. Luckily they didn't have half a million dollars to fund their sick fantasies (sadly they still found other ways to kill others and themselves).

edit: spelling

[bemildred]

6. Another one:

Lots of mostly low grade "debate" too.

The National Science Foundation conducted a study that confirmed what social psychologists have shown before: it's the group with which a person identifies, not individual personality, that often determines behavior. From WSJ, Alternative Peer Groups May OfferWay to Deter Some Suicide Bombers

That realization is shaping scientists' understanding of suicide bombers, whose numbers have soared. Who are they? Not the cowardly psychopaths or sociopaths you might expect. "There is little to no evidence that they are mentally unbalanced," says Todd Stewart, a retired Air Force general who now directs the Program for International and Homeland Security at Ohio State University. From the Sept. 11 attackers to Palestinian suicide bombers to al Qaeda terrorists, they are educated, fairly well off and "not necessarily from fanatically religious families," he says.

This alarmingly normal profile is why the National Science Foundation gave anthropologist Scott Atran, a research director at the National Center for Scientific Research, Paris, emergency funding to study groups that sponsor suicide attacks. He just spent three weeks in Gaza and the West Bank, where he spoke to counterterrorism strategists, fugitive Hamas leaders, would-be suicide bombers and families of "martyrs."

"None of the supporters of suicide terrorism I interviewed, especially at al-Najah University, were poor, uneducated, socially estranged or psychologically deranged," says Prof. Atran. "They are idealistic and compassionate, and think they can change the world. That makes the whole thing more frightening than if they were just crazies off the street." In a study of al Qaeda recruits, forensic psychiatrist Marc Sageman of the University of Pennsylvania finds a similar pattern: Many attended college and are economically better off than most Palestinians or European Muslims, and they are often "the elite of their countries," he says.

http://www.discardedlies.com/entries/2004/10/peer_groups.php

[damntexdem]

8. Oh, they do hate us for our freedom ...

to bomb and rape and steal their natural resources.

[CJCRANE]

11. Suicide bombing

is an Eastern phenomenon and at first glance seems totally alien to Western culture. But just think of the homicide-suicide shooters (i.e. "going postal") that occasionally occur in Western countries. These are often middle-class people who feel totally humiliated and are not usually religious.

I don't know if there's a psychological similarity but it might be worth looking into.