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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:02 PM
Original message
Newsmax: Russert Grills Mehlman on Impeach Memo (The RW spin is on)
<<SNIP>>
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/6/5/134215.shtml

Sunday, June 5, 2005 1:40 p.m. EDT
Russert Grills Mehlman on Impeach Memo

"Meet the Press" host Tim Russert became the first network newsman on Sunday to cover a British memo touted by crackpot Democrats as smoking gun evidence that President Bush committed impeachable crimes.

During an interview with Republican National Committee chairman Ken Mehlman, NBC's Washington bureau chief repeatedly asked about the Downing Street Memo, which alleges that Bush fabricated intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, calling the largely ignored document "now famous."

....

Then the NBC host did his best to make the thirdhand account sound like credible evidence of Bush wrongdoing, telling Mehlman:
"This is July of 2002. We didn't invade until March of 2003. And the prime minister of Great Britain is being told by the head of his intelligence that he went to Washington and believes that a decision had already been made and that the administration was fixing or manipulating the intelligence to support the policy."

....

Mehlman said he disagreed with that assessment, noting:
"The fact is that the intelligence of this country, the intelligence of Britain, the intelligence of the United Nations, the intelligence all over the world said that there were weapons of mass destruction present in Iraq. We knew that Saddam Hussein had used weapons of mass destruction before. We still know that there was a weapons of mass destruction program."

<</SNIP>>
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. crackpot, largely ignored, third hand account
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 02:13 PM by eleny
there they are folks. and we'll be hearing these all week. so, what are our counterpoints?

crackpot - so, now the british government is a bunch of crackpots? if only bush had felt this way when they said there were wmd. oh, but they didn't say there were wmd. but, then they did say.... oh my, this is so messy!

largely ignored - oh yeah. the right wing tactic of ignoring what can bite them.

third hand account - i need help with this one! it's a first hand account by tony blair's envoy to the white house, right? help!

funny how something "largely ignored" is so completely explored by mehlman. which is it? largely ignored or scoured for flaws, hmmmm?
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pimpbot Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. newsmax < national enquirer
I believe this might be the first time I've seen a "journalist" use the word Crackpot to describe someone. They are worried about this one, and are bringing out the heavy ammo. Be prepared for the echo chamber on full blast...
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. the ad hominem attack = white flag waving
when they can't argue the facts but use the personal attack it's evidence of their conceding they've lost the argument. heh...heh...heh...

"The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made)."
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. That was no journalist...
That was Russert. And the story was from Newsmax. Therefore, the whole product is journalist-free, and safe for Republiconsumption.
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
54. he's a hack
<>

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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. they're getting creative with words lately
How did you like Bush's reference to Amnesty Int'l's comments as being "absurd"? He said it more than once. (See mom, I can say a cool word so I am credible)

Now Dems are "crackpots". Oh thank-you so much! :crazy:
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
46. Bushco was fixing or manipulating the intelligence for Iraq war
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. "Because they tried to kill my Daddy, n besides we want their oil and to
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 11:47 PM by lonestarnot
make 'em all go to Sunday School!"
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
48. Well, I know it's Newsmax and not a real news outlet
But, gee, who wrote that? Ann Coulter?
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. They are/will go after Kerry once he brings to the Senate floor...
it's going to be on full force this week!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
47. And it's time we fire back goddammit!!!
Screw Limbaugh-Hannity-O'Reily--why do you think they're paid all those millions to spin this shit, talk about crack-pots!!!
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ihelpu2see Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. these were minutes of the meeting, not Third Hand Account! eom
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
45. Yes,
surely the minutes of a meeting - written by some-one who was at the meeting - is a "first-hand account".
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Blue Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. Third hand account - wasn't the supposed "intelligence" that....
they used to get us into this war "a third hand account"?? Now I could be wrong, but didn't we have supposive "intelligence" reports from Russia and Turkey?

Also, to add on the "Crackpot" clarification... So the British Government is a bunch of crackpots?? How dare you imply such a shameful thing about our allies who stand by us!! This is an Outrage!! :-) I've been so wanting to throw the "don't talk bad about our allies" thing back in the repukes faces since the first Presidential Debate!!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Typical tactic. They're praising Russert for bringing the
DSM up, but conveniently he only has a repug for a guest. Why would that be, Timmy? If the minutes are so 'famous', why don't you explore both sides?:eyes:
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Just an FYI - Mehlman was the only guest for a reason
Russert had Dean on as the only guest recently. Mehlman is Deans Repub counterpart. This was planned and announced a while back.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. And did Russert ask Dean about the DSM? No. Why not?
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. Washington Journal, Cspan had both sides
on Saturday morning. On the left was the guy from www.AfterDowningStreet.org. He pretty much demolished the guy on the right.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Watching now, thanks.
Whizbang.com :rofl:
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ken Mehlman has no right to talk about the military
He wouldn't even be allowed in anyway because of "that policy".
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. That's something that Franken could bring up
He has a way of dealing with delicate topics when they demand attention by their hypocrisy. I sure hope he does.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. Don't worry he will! This is just getting started.....n/t
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Mehlman catapults propaganda,
and we're probably going to be hearing much more of it this week.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. But - it's MORE MAJOR NEWS COVERAGE!!
Sorry for shouting. But isn't this what we wanted? News is good News to me. Let's find out their "spin" now, before it hits the Senate, so we can rehearse how to tear their argument apart when hit with it.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. the spin is in his statements posted above
it's all there.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. i think we just heard their agument...mehlman is
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 05:53 PM by ooglymoogly
gop chair or whatever...not answering directly... dodging...and the old blah blah about everybody believing iraq had wmd...not that everybody believed iraq had wmd because heir bush fixed the intel. woopee we got em....just hit em with logic
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
41. Network coverage: it's a good thing
It doesn't matter if Mehlman was alone. He is SUCH a bad liar--anyone can tell he's spinning. There isn't anything good you can say about Bushco and be telling the truth. Russert represented the Dem viewpoint and I thought he was fairly tough this time. And he brought up the DSM--only one day before it's due to hit the Senate. All Mehlman could really say is that he "respectfully disagrees" with everything Russert said--he must have said it ten times at least.
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nightfox02 Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. thats funny because CIA sure as hell stated they had a weak case
CIA kept saying they had no compelling evidence of a threat. Mehlman is recycling bullshit here...

It is certainly not the case that the CIA was pounding on the fucking door of the oval office warning the president of impending doom...

The general consenus of all intel agencies was that Hussein had a few WMDs lying around but clearly not enough to pose a realistic threat and clearly not enough to invade.

Bush took that and ran with it using 9/11 to promulgate a sky is falling attitude among his sheep and the nation as a whole. Why? For Revenge and Oil. Predictable? OH YEAH! Costly? Fuck Yeah. Impeachable? Certainly :)

Bush is going down. It is our responsibility to push this until it sticks.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
57. No the consensus was that they DIDN'T KNOW if he had WMD
AT ALL, let alone "lying around".

NOBODY but bushco criminals and repuke apologists claimed it - out of THIN AIR!
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. well if he wants corroboration from an (ex) administration official
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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well lets have a look here Mr. Mehlman
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 04:57 PM by jamesinca
From the office of the Honorable Rep. Henry Waxman (D)I give you this:

Iraq on the Record:The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq from the Committee on Government Reform-Minority Office 3/16/04.

Findings
Number of Misleading Statements
The Iraq on the Record database contains 237 misleading statements about the threat posed by Iraq that were made by President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Secretary Rumsfeld, Secretary Powell, and National Security Adviser Rice. These statements were made in 125 separate appearances, consisting of 40 speeches, 26 press conferences and briefings, 53 interviews, 4 written statements, and 2 congressional testimonies. Most of the statements in the database were misleading because they expressed certainty where none existed or failed to acknowledge the doubts of the intelligence officials. Ten of the Statements were simply false.

Timing of the Statements
The statements began at lest a year before the commencement of hostilities in Iraq, when Vice President Cheney stated on March 17, 2002: "We know they have biological and chemical weapons." The Administration's misleading statements continued through January 22, 2004, when Vice President Cheney insisted: "there's overwhelming evidence that there was a connection between al-Qaeda and the Iraqi government." Most of the misleading statements about Iraq - 161 statements- were made prior to the start of the war. But 76 misleading statements were made by the five Administration officials after the start of the war to justify the decision to go to war.

The 30-day period with the greatest number of misleading statements was the period before the congressional vote on the Iraq war resolution. Congress voted on the measure on October 10 and October 11, 2002. From September 8 through October 8, 2002 the five officials made 64 misleading statements in 16 public appearances. A large number of misleading statements were also made during the two months before the war began. Between January 19 and March 19, 2003, the five officials made 48 misleading statements in 26 public appearances.
www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/IraqOnRecord.pdf
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From the Dulfer report there is this

"Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq's WMD capability-which was essentially destroyed in 1991
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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. And I would like to add this Mr. Mehlman
Since I missed the editing time from my previous post, I would like to add this from the key findings of the Dulfer report: "The former Regime had no formal written strategy or plan for the revival of WMD after sanctions"

So to summarize what I have put out here for you today Mr. Mehlman 1) This administration has a well documented history of lying to the public and congress. 2) Mr. Hussein had no WMD capabilities because they were destroyed 11 years before. 3) He had no plan or strategy for the revival of WMD after the sanctions were lifted.

That is all I have to say about that Mr. Mehlman, thank you.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. If only Russert.....
had said this to Mehlman....
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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
51. And I want to add this
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 04:50 PM by jamesinca
John Bolton. I know somewhere, some how he has a lot to do with this whole thing.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8099747

from the linked article:

A former Bolton deputy says the U.S. undersecretary of state felt Jose Bustani “had to go,” particularly because the Brazilian was trying to send chemical weapons inspectors to Baghdad. That might have helped defuse the crisis over alleged Iraqi weapons and undermined a U.S. rationale for war.
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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. I am adding this also Mr. Mehlman
How come Tim Russert did not ask these questions?

Jun 6, 2005

Mehlman on NBC Meet the Press: Long on Rhetoric and Short on Facts

Washington, DC - Democratic National Committee Communications Director Karen Finney issued the following statement regarding Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman's appearance on NBC's "Meet the Press":

"With a smooth command of GOP talking points, Ken Mehlman was long on rhetoric and short on facts, which seems to be the GOP mantra these days. He once again showed how out of touch the Republican leadership really is with the realities facing the American people," said DNC Communications Director Karen Finney.

"Even more troubling, Ken Mehlman stood by the ethically challenged leadership of Tom DeLay. DeLay's repeated efforts to trade legislative access for fundraising favors, extravagant junkets, and handouts to his corporate cronies reflects the reckless abuse of power that has become a trademark of Republican leadership in this country. This behavior may represent the values of the Republican Party, but it doesn't represent the values of the American people. Democrats believe that Americans deserve more from their leaders."

THE KEN MEHLMAN ACTION FIGURE – WITH NEW IMPROVED TALKING POINT ACTION
Today on Meet The Press, Ken Mehlman continued his practice of spouting rosy rhetoric, even while Americans experience a very different reality. Repeatedly, Mehlman spouted the line that he "respectfully disagreed" with Tim Russert's statements – even when the facts blatantly contradicted his talking points. The economy is stalled, job creation slowed to a standstill, and the deficit is the largest in history. But instead of offering America real solutions, Ken Mehlman insisted that everything is fine. He even touted Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who has repeatedly tried to to trade legislative access for fundraising favors, extravagant junkets, and handouts to his corporate cronies, as "an effective leader." On issue after issue, Ken Mehlman chose to follow Republican talking points instead of coming clean with the American people.

MEHLMAN'S RHETORIC: THE ECONOMY IS DOING GREAT

AMERICA'S REALITY: ECONOMY "HITTING THE BRAKES"


Job Creation Close to a Standstill. "The nation added only 78,000 jobs in May, less than half the pace of the previous three months and the smallest monthly increase in nearly two years," the Labor Department reported today. A total of 78,000 jobs were created, less than half of what Wall Street analysts had predicted.


About 80 Percent of New Jobs Created Pay an Average Hourly Wage Lower Than The National Average. About 2.9 million of the new jobs that have been created since August 2003 are in the service sector with an average wage that is 40 cents lower than the national average. More than 256,000 of these jobs are temporary jobs. More than 851,000 of these jobs were in low-paying domestic industries, such as wait staff in restaurants and bars and retail workers. This means that more than 30 percent of the new jobs created are temporary jobs or in low-paying domestic industries.


U.S. Economy Is Hitting the Brakes; GDP Growth at Slowest Rate in 2 Years. The nation's GDP grew at a 3.1 percent annual rate in the first quarter of 200 — much slower than the 3.8 percent growth in the final quarter of 2004, and the slowest rate since 1.9 percent growth in the first quarter of 2003. Activity slowed across most of the economy, including lower consumer spending and corporate investment. "Final demand" — real purchases by companies and individual —expanded only 1.9 percent in the first quarter. The remainder of the 3.1 percent expansion "was a result of an $80 billion surge in the accumulation of inventories."

MEHLMAN'S RHETORIC: WE ARE REDUCING THE DEFICIT
AMERICA'S REALITY: DEFICIT EVEN WORRIES CHAIRMAN GREENSPAN

Each American's Current Share of National Debt Is More Than $26,000; Greenspan Expresses Worries Over Deficit. Bush's deficits have increased the national debt to $7.7 trillion—totaling $26,248 for each man, woman, and child in the United States. In testimony before the Senate Budget Committee on April 21, Alan Greenspan testified that "Unless that trend is reversed, at some point these deficits could cause the economy to stagnate or worse… The federal budget deficit is on an unsustainable path, in which large deficits result in rising interest rates and ever-growing interest payments that augment deficits in future years."

MEHLMAN'S RHETORIC: TOM DELAY IS AN EFFECTIVE LEADER
AMERICA'S REALITY: DELAY AND THE ETHICS COMMITTEE, THEY MEET WAY TOO MUCH:


ADMONISHMENT 1: DeLay Received Private Admonishment for Continuing with Gingrich's K Street Project. In 1999, the House Ethics Committee sent a letter to DeLay privately admonishing him for pushing the Electronics Industry Association to hire former Rep. Bill Paxon (R-NY) as a lobbyist instead of former Rep. Dave McCurdy (D-OK). The plan was part of DeLay's push to load K Street power lobbying firms with Republicans, which he re-launched in 2004, despite being admonished for it by the Ethics Committee in 1999.


ADMONISHMENT 2: House Ethics Committee Admonished DeLay for Bribes for Votes. DeLay violated House standard procedure and kept the 15-minute House vote on Medicare open for 3 hours. Later on, the House Ethics Committee conducted an investigation into whether DeLay threatened and bribed representatives into voting the Medicare law, including a large contribution of "$100,000-plus" for the campaign of the son of a member of Congress.


ADMONISHMENT 3-A: Westar Traded Cash To DeLay in Exchange for "Seat At The Table" During Energy Bill Negotiations. An energy company, Westar, gave more than $56,000 in cash to DeLay for a "seat at the table" during energy bill negotiations. As a result, language was added to a bill that specifically benefited Westar.


ADMONISHMENT 3-B: DeLay Abused Leadership Position and Used Influence To Track Private Airplane. DeLay abused his leadership position and used his influence to direct the Department of Homeland Security track a private airplane carrying Democratic members of the Texas legislature who were rebelling against a DeLay-led Texas redistricting plan.


ADMONISHMENT 4, PENDING: Committee Will Decide Whether to Pursue Action Based on TRMPAC. The House Ethics Committee deferred action on another complaint dealing with DeLay's fundraising group TRMPAC. A Texas grand jury in September 2004 indicted three of DeLay's political associates on charges of using TRMPAC to illegally collect corporate donations and funnel them to Texas legislative races. The ethics committee said it will take no action on the matter "pending further action" concerning the indictments or the Texas-based investigation that prompted them.
MEHLMAN'S RHETORIC: PERSONAL RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS ARE JUST LIKE THE THRIFT SAVINGS PLAN

AMERICA'S REALITY: TSP "UNWORKABLE" AS MODEL FOR BUSH PLAN


Bush Plan Much Different than Thrift Savings Plan; Modelling Called "Not Workable." "Bush's proposed accounts differ substantially from the 19-year-old TSP. Moreover, they would be much more difficult to run than the TSP and have far higher administrative costs than the president and his supporters let on, some experts say. 'It's a non-starter,' said Francis X. Cavanaugh, a designer of the TSP. "There's no way they can do this without an enormous federal subsidy. . . . This has to do with workability, no matter how one feels about it philosophically, and it's not workable."


For Federal Workers, TSP Only Supplements Federal Pension and Social Security. "For most federal employees, the TSP serves as one leg of a 'three-legged stool' of retirement income; the other two are the traditional Social Security benefit and a government pension. But because many businesses no longer offer defined-benefit pensions, many employees in the private sector have only a two-legged stool — their 401(k) plan plus Social Security. The money that workers divert to Bush's personal accounts, plus 3 percent interest, would come out of their guaranteed Social Security benefit. So, in effect, the president would be shaving down one of the legs and hoping that a new one — the individual account — would grow at least enough to compensate for the loss."


Annual Administrative Costs for Small Busineses Would Eat Up 30 Percent of Yearly Profits. Based on surveys of administrative costs for firms that set up 401(k)s for companies with 10 or fewer employees, the annual cost per worker amounted to more than $300. For an account of $1,000 (the maximum under the president's proposal), a cost of $300 per worker would require more than a 40 percent investment return just to get the fund back to $1,000 at the end of the year. <"Feasibility of Social Security Individual Accounts", Francis X. Cavanaugh, AARP Public Policy Institute, #2002-14, 9/02; Statement of Francis X. Cavanaugh, Testimony Before the Subcommittee on Social Security of the House Committee on Ways and Means, 6/18/98>

MEHLMAN'S RHETORIC:
DEMOCRATS NEVER SAID THEY'D WORK WITH US

AMERICA'S REALITY: DEMOCRATS HAVE SAID THEY WILL NEGOTIATE WHEN PRIVATIZATION IS OFF THE TABLE



Pelosi Said Remove Privatization, Then Democrats will negotiate. "I join my colleague, Mr. Rangel, the Ranking Democrat on the Ways and Means Committee, when we say: 'Remove the poison pill of privatization, and Democrats will come to the table with our ideas, with our commitment, and with our cooperation to address the problem that exists, not a crisis, but the problem that exists in Social Security down the road."


Reid Said Democrats Would Negotiate on Social Security When Private Accounts Were Off the Table. "The Senate Democratic leader said Democrats will only enter negotiations with Bush 'once he takes privatization off the table.' Reid was referring to Bush's call for creating private accounts within the current Social Security system."

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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. And I am adding this Mr Mehlman

Well lets see this is from the summer of 2003. Seems the only people that are defending the lie Mr. Mehlman are the British and you, even this long ago. I will keep adding things Mr. Mehlman as I find them, maybe you should join me on my search the the truth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
France insists Saddam has never bought uranium
By Kim Sengupta
21 July 2003
The British Government's claim that Saddam Hussein had sought to buy uranium from Niger has been dismissed by the French ambassador to the central African state.
In another blow to the credibility of the Blair Government over the issue, Denis Vène said it was impossible for uranium to leave the country without French officials knowing.
<SNIP>
M. Vène was backed by Rabiou Hassanne Yari, Niger's Minister of Mines, who told The Independent on Sunday that he was "sure and certain" that his country had never sold uranium to Iraq.
Of Mr Blair's claim that 270 tons had been purchased in the 1980s, he said: "It's not true. The Iraqis asked, but there was never any transactions."
He added that the request was not a secret. It was "officially made and officially turned down". He pointed out that Niger's uranium production was subject to scrutiny by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Britain had maintained that the "purchase" of the uranium in the 1980s made it likely that Iraq went back for more.
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ihelpu2see Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Also "Dr" Rice went on the road to campaign for Pres. * and spewed
these lies. This was the first time in history that the NSA chief actually went on the road and campaigned for the incumbent president....
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm nominating this thread so that more can see the spin.
Get ready for the week. I think it will be a tough one.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. tough and interesting...
hopefully Dems will have a good strategy!
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. I know this is NewsMax reporting,
but still...

"....the Downing Street Memo, which alleges that Bush fabricated intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, calling the largely ignored document "now famous." "

The memo doesn't "allege" anything. It merely reports the things that were said in a high level British meeting-- and that meeting was in turn all about a prior high level US/British intelligence meeting. There is no reason to believe that the minutes-taker was shading the truth regarding what was said. These minutes are one step removed from having a tape recording of the British meeting.

The memo has only been "ignored" because the commercial media has refused to touch this story with a ten foot pole. When they actually do hear about the DSM, people go ballistic. It is an absolutely damning document and the Bush folks know it.

And maybe the DSM is not yet a "now famous" document -- but it will be!
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JawJaw Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. Discredited Discredited Discredited
Discredited Discredited Discredited
Discredited Discredited Discredited
Discredited Discredited Discredited
Discredited Discredited Discredited
Discredited Discredited Discredited
(you get the message yet)?
Discredited Discredited Discredited
Discredited Discredited Discredited
Discredited Discredited Discredited
(move the fuck on, Tim, move the fuck on)
Discredited Discredited Discredited
Discredited Discredited Discredited

etc
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. This was about NUKES, not simply WMD's. Bush lied and stated that
Saddam was building NUKLAR weapons. That is why this war was supposedly so urgent and necessary.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
23. Oh, Mehlman! Is that the absolute best you can do...
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 06:24 PM by AuntiBush
Let's see:

Mehlman said he disagreed with that assessment, noting:

"The fact is that the intelligence of this country, the intelligence of Britain, the intelligence of the United Nations, the intelligence all over the world said that there were weapons of mass destruction present in Iraq. We knew that Saddam Hussein had used weapons of mass destruction before. We still know that there was a weapons of mass destruction program."

Bush and Condi alone have made statements that "the intelligence" was weak, bad, etc... easy to check on Google, alone. Elderly neighbors are laughing at this right now... seriously.

The UN! Is he kidding. Bush & Co did everything they could and still do to discredit the UN!

There were no WMD is OLD NEWS! Kids down the block know about this one.

Hey CNN: You're own online web site has some of Bushies quotes that "DISCREDITS" all of this. Not to mention over 1 million other news articles, easily found online.

Un-fricked-believable. Whom do they think they're kidding now.
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Rebellious Republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
27. I guess this is why Valerie Plame was outed as a CIA operative!
"The fact is that the intelligence of this country, the intelligence of Britain, the intelligence of the United Nations, the intelligence all over the world said that there were weapons of mass destruction present in Iraq. We knew that Saddam Hussein had used weapons of mass destruction before. We still know that there was a weapons of mass destruction program."

She was just some loose cannon within this global intelligence system I suppose!

:banghead:

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Tesla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I want to know who "all the people" are that looked at the reports
I mean, he kept saying that, that the DSM's have "been looked at by ALL these people " and they found them false.
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. That's exactly what I was thinking. Name them! It's like the "Outfoxed"
documentary, where a "reporter" says, "Some people say that Democrats are plotting to steal your underwear"...or some such nonsense.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
31. Grills? GRILLS??? I don't fucking think so!!
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
34. HERE is what the Republicans are going to say about DSM:

THE MEMO HAS BEEN DISCREDITED BY EVERYONE

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. "a British memo touted by crackpot Democrats..."
How else would you expect newsmax to describe the Downing Street memo? I really think they are starting to get worried that people are beginning to pay attention to this story and more importantly, to appreciate its significance.

Let's see what happens Monday with Kerry. It would be nice if the 2004 nominee were to repeat his famous question about how many men should die for a lie. Let's see how newsmax spins that one!
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Russerts lobs nerf balls at Rethugs and...
balls with spikes at Dems. Ever get the impression that he is a shill for the Bush Regime?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Russert used to refer to Bush as "our warrior king"
and he meant it in a complimentary way, as if he was speaking of Henry V. He stopped doing that after things went sour in Iraq.
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liberaliraqvet26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
40. Newsmax's office is a block away from me
I cant believe I have to call these wackos my neighbors....
Drop them a line tell em what you think of their propaganda rag....

Newsmax Media
560 Village Blvd
Suite 120
West Palm Beach FL 33409
561-686-1165
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
43. So Kerry is a crackpot? Conyers a crackpot? I'm a crackpot?
I take this as a very good sign...they resort to insults when desperate...

We shall see who the real crackpots are....
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
44. EVERYBODY did NOT say there were WMD's
George W. Bush (October 2002) "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

Mohammed ElBaradei (International Atomic Energy Agency Director): "We have to date found no evidence that Iraq has revived its nuclear weapon program since the elimination of the program in the 1990s.”

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/iraq_01-27-03.html

============================================

George W. Bush (October 2002): “Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

Mohammed ElBaradei (International Atomic Energy Agency Director): “First, we have been inspected all of those buildings and facilities that were identified through satellite imagery as having been modified or constructed over the past four years. The IAEA inspectors have been able to gain ready access and to clarify the nature of the activities currently being conducted in these facilities. No prohibited nuclear activities have been identified during these inspections.”

http://www.usembassy.it/file2003_01/alia/a3012703.htm

=============================================

George W. Bush (October 2002): “Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html


Mohammed ElBaradei (International Atomic Energy Agency Director): “A particular issue of focus has been the attempted procurement by Iraq of high-strength aluminum tubes, and the question of whether these tubes, if acquired, could be used for the manufacture of nuclear centrifuge. Iraqi authorities have indicated that their unsuccessful attempts to procure the aluminum tubes related to a program to reverse-engineer conventional rockets. To verify this information, the IAEA inspectors have inspected the relevant rocket production and storage sites, taken tube samples, interviewed relevant Iraqi personnel, and reviewed procurement contracts and related documents.

From our analysis to date, it appears that the aluminum tubes would be consistent with the purposes stated by Iraq and, unless modified, would not be suitable for manufacturing centrifuges.”

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/iraq/elbaradei_report.html
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
49. Interesting
The RW spin is not that the DSM is not accurate..or not validated..but that EVERYBODY thought there were WMD so it's okay.

Ha ha ha.

A) There weren't any. You were wrong.

B) Yes, congratulations-you fooled America-you fooled me-Ms. American houswife into believing. However, you knew perfectly well that there wasn't even HALF the danger you were implying. It wasn't an imminent threat. The mushroom cloud was not looming. The yellow cake was FALSE. The aluminum tubes were a lie.

D) Heh-maybe you even fooled members of the house and senate. That's your crime-that's your impeachable offense. You can lie to the stupid Americans like me all day long-but those other guys-oh yeah you aren't supposed to lie to them.

E) THE POINT: You had information and intelligence..and Britain confirms this..that the case for WMD was thin..it was not enough for war.

You lied. To everyone. Your intent was war-the WMD was the fit to make it acceptable. It wasn't the reason for the war-it was the alibi.

Or to sum up: Everyone thought they had WMD? WHY? Because you lied and told them they did. So I guess they are to blame for believing your lies..is that the Republican excuse these days? If you believe them...sorry suckers. That's about all it comes to.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. What happened to C)?
:P
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Brooklyn Michael Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
50. NEWSMAX?????
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 02:25 PM by Brooklyn Michael
Bwa-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

.....*snort*....NewsMax....heh heh heh....

The info on a MacDonald's placemat is more informative than NewsMax. C'mon...posting links to NewsMax stories is like shooting fish in a barrel....And getting upset about anything you find there is like getting upset at Ken Mehlman's talking points....100% "well, DUH"
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alarcojon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. shooting fish in a barrel
Yes, but they are widely read by conservatives and paleoconservatives. We do need to devote thought as to how to counter this "message" once it fllters down to the dittoheads and through them to the guy in the cubicle down the hall. The guy in the cubicle might be reasonable -- if you have an effective counterargument.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
53. The vitriol and mud being sent along with the message of this
"news report" indicates that they are shit-scared about the talk of impeachment.
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