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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:33 AM
Original message
Chavez attacks US
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez accused the United States on Sunday of trying to impose a "global dictatorship". He said the US, not Venezuela, should face scrutiny by the Organisation of American States.

"If there is any government that should be monitored by the OAS, then it should be the US government, a government which backs terrorists, invades nations, tramples over its own people, seeks to install a global dictatorship. That should be the government that is monitored," said Chavez.

His latest anti-US outburst reflected the current tense state of relations between Venezuela, the world's No. 5 oil exporter, and its biggest oil client the United States.

US officials have said they are worried that Chavez's dominance of his country's courts, the military and other state institutions, combined with his government's persecution of political opponents, puts Venezuela's democracy at risk.

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Chavez+attacks+US&id=74118
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jukes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. had a mental pix
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 07:36 AM by jukes
of the headline when the world turns on us, & venezuela et al invade!
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Wolverines!
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jukes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. EXCEPT
if it goes down, they'll likely be met as liberators; given food, shelter, & information. hell, i'd toss roses!!!
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
76. "Vaya con Dios"
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 05:29 PM by leveymg
Is John Milius working these days? Wonder what the self-described "Zen fascist" of Hollywood would do with Fallujah? Scripted Red Dawn after Apocalypse Now and Dirty Harry.

Political paranoia can produce good art as well as entertaining propaganda. :bounce:
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Protagoras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
43. had exactly the same
reaction.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
47. CHAVEZ days are Numbered
THE CIA WILL KILL HIM.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. If the economy and iraq get any worse, it's bush who'll be targetted....

...by the ciada
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #49
75. What does the Colorado Independent Automobile Dealers Assoc
have to do with anything?

http://www.ciada.org/why/
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. Let's hope not....after all Castro managed to stay alive after many,
many attempts on his life....maybe Castro will give Chavez some pointers.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #47
79. It's what they do...
(along with other nefarious acts) They have been a worldwide cancer since their inception.
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. Chavez has a pretty good point.
Hegemony is on the march.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Terra alert sunset orange (orange-red)
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. Makes me wonder how * will be accepted at the OAS meeting today
This could be very intersting.
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readmylips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
39. Hope all the Spanish country leaders, get up and leave in...
protest. Viva Chavez!
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Great propaganda headline. Reminds me of "Poland Attacks Germany"(1939)
Pro-US Indian news site. Understated, they're not. :eyes:
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reality based Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. What persecution?
Oh yeah, he didn't allow a right wing coup to override a democratic election. They obviously need an electoral college and Ohio/Florida style voting procedures down there.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. I tend to agree with him
Does that make me a bad Merkin?
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Makes you one intelligent American.....n/t
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. Is there some way we can send Chavez money? n/t
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no_to_war_economy Donating Member (962 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. yes you can....buy ONLY CITGO gasoline
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
65. Just filled my tank there last night!!
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
71. I only use Citgo and Hess- See two articles below
Amerada Hess Corporation
Summary

Rating: Dark Blue - 98 %
BuyBlue.org's Position:

Amerada Hess currently has a 98% BuyBlue rating due to political contributions for the 2003-2004 election cycle. Hess' Chairman and his spouse contributed heavily and almost exclusively to Democratic candidates in the past election. Hess does not have a political action committee.

Here at BuyBlue we never dreamed we'd find an oil & gas company that was neutral much less solid blue since that industry has been in bed with the Republicans for as long as many of us can remember. It is very encouraging to see that Hess is a small island of blue in a sea of red. Hopefully they will remain that way as we start fleshing out our other ratings. Those of you on the east coast are in luck, Hess may be in your area. Stop by and let them know what you think and please do send them email in our take action section. Those of us on the west coast need to send email too, but we need to ask them to expand.

More:
http://www.buyblue.org/detail.php?corpId=81


----------

May 31, 2005
Weighing in on Citgo

Buying your gas at Citgo has been making rounds in the Progressive Community lately as a way to stand up and speak out against Bush's foreign policy. The most noteable article (and possibly the one that started everything) was written by Jeff Cohen over at CommonDreams.org.

People have been begging us since this article came out to rate Citgo and add our two cents into the pot on the issue. As of today Citgo has been rated, but I won't be jumping up and down with excitement about it unfortunately. In fact I would prefer not to post them at all, but that isn't how we operate around here.

This is one of those times when I really wished we didn't have a strict methodology we were bound by, because by posting this I know the emails will roll in protesting it. However, you never make exceptions to your methodology if you expect to maintain credibility.

Citgo has a 0% rating based on our methodology, but this is one of those times when you absolutely have to dig deeper and you cannot make quick decisions based on a percentage. In total, all of the executives counted donated only $2480 to Republicans and Citgo has no political action committee. Compare that to their peers which donate hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions to politicians and have very active PACs. BP donated $209,499 (38% D / 62% R), Shell donated $86,000 (17% D, 83% R), and Chevron donated $384,800 (11% D / 89% R). We are working on the other oil giants and I'd be willing to bet money you'll find similar or greater numbers from them.

If you are speaking strictly about poilitical donations, the only blue oil company we have found so far is Hess.

So if you were planning on joining this Buy-cott which Common Dreams has called for you can do so without feeling guilty - Citgo does not play the political game the way their peers do. If all of the things Mr. Cohen has written are to be believed then they could actually be a company we should all be supporting.

So what does this mean for BuyBlue? Well first of all, we'll be improving their rating for other areas once we roll out our new ratings this summer. We have also had fairly extensive discussions about rating companies based on low dollar donations and we'd like to improve our methodology there. The reason we haven't done anything is because any change at this point would be a lot of work to go back through everything and adjust the ratings. We have resolved we'll deal with this after the new web site comes online because we feel that only a handful of companies have received a low (or high) rating when they didn't really deserve it. Until then I would suggest that everyone look deeper into the profiles rather than simply relying on the list.

I'm sure that we'll get our share of emails about this, but I hope people appreciate the fact that we are sticking to our guns here even though we'd love nothing more than to give Citgo the highest rating we can. If you have any thoughts on it, as always please post them here.

Posted by Raven at May 31, 2005 06:33 PM

More:
http://www.buyblue.org/archives/2005/05/weighing_in_on.html#more
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getmeouttahere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Maybe not, but you can help.....
these fine folks, and check out what they are doing to help Venezuela.

www.handsoffvenezuela.org
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. Thanks to both of you.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
23. One Way to Support the Country
is just to visit. Cheap airline tickets. Great exchange rate. Nice people. You can go to the Caribbean coast, the mountains, or the rainforest.

I'm absolutely serious. Venezuela has a hard time attracting tourists because of the impression of instability. The more Americans see what's going on there, the less the public can sold a pack of lies.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
50. A question, ribofunk. How large is the expatriot community there?
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. I Don't Know
I suspect the oil industry in the Maracaibo has some American expats. Maybe some businessmen in Caracas. There are a lot of other Latin Americans -- I met an Argentinian photographer, for example. I suspect that some of the resort spots like Margarita Island have some American retirees.

Venezuelans seem to like Americans, but there are not a lot of Americans around. There are a lot of US brands and designer goods, but not many English speakers. That's more than made up for by the friendliness of the people, however.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
72. There are groups all over the world supporting Venezuelan Solidarity.
You can check Hands Off Venezuela in London. They are happy to get donations for the cause, I believe. There is a DU member who posts here who is a prominent member of a group in London.

http://www.venezuelasolidarity.org.uk/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=3&comments_parentId=4

http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/

Can even get a "Hands Off Venezuela" bumper sticker to attrack Republicans to you while you're driving! I'll bet the more Venezuela watchers and supporters come forward world wide the harder it's going to be politically for Bush and the other ogres to override the will of the Venezuelan elections through another coup attempt.




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pescao Donating Member (716 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #72
81. hi judi!
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 10:04 PM by pescao
also there are HOV groups in the states (LA are quite active), and all over the world. we've got a demo next monday in london:

http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/bush_give_up_terrorists060605.htm

Protest Outside the US Embassy (Grosvenor Sq, London) Monday 13th June 4-7pm

BUSH - GIVE UP THE TERRORISTS!

"America has a message for the nations of the world: If you harbor terrorists, you are terrorists. If you train or arm a terrorist, you are a terrorist. If you feed a terrorist or fund a terrorist, you're a terrorist, and you will be held accountable." George W. Bush, 21st November 2001

Cuban-Venezuelan Luis Posada is wanted for blowing up an airliner in 1976, killing 73 people. He was arrested last month in the US, which is refusing to hand him over to Venezuela, where he escaped from jail. His partner in crime, Orlando Bosch, was given a presidential pardon by Bush the Elder and now lives in Miami, where they have named a street after him.

In Colombia this year a total of seven US soldiers (including a colonel) have been arrested for, between them, selling ammunition to right-wing paramilitaries and attempting to smuggle cocaine into the US. Before the Colombian judiciary could blink, they were whisked out of the country to prevent further embarrassment and have not yet been charged with any crime.

Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada used to be President of Bolivia, before he ordered the massacre of peaceful protesters in 2003 and fled to Miami to escape the furious backlash. Bolivians want him tried for crimes against humanity, but that doesn't seem likely while he's protected by the US government, who immediately granted him political asylum.

Notice a pattern?

The problem for Bush is that these cases all reveal the ugly underside of US foreign policy in Latin America. Declassified FBI documents prove Posada was a CIA agent (specialising in explosives) while also freelancing for the Las Vegas mafia. After escaping Venezuelan jail in 1985 he worked for Oliver North supplying arms to the US-backed Contras in their war against the left-wing Sandinista government in Nicaragua. His terrorist career continues in Cuba (where he had been a policeman under the Batista dictatorship) with a string of hotel bombings during an international youth festival in 1997, resulting in several injuries and the death of an Italian tourist. In an interview with the New York Times the following year Posada practically boasted about this terrorism. He was part of the infamous Operation Condor, which co-ordinated right-wing military dicatorships in the region for the US government, and has tried to assassinate Castro at least twice: once in Caracas in 1971 (while head of DISIP, the Venezuelan political police) and again in 2000 in Panama, where he served four years in jail before being pardoned by the outgoing president (who now lives in Florida).

On Monday 13th June, there will be an immigration hearing in El Paso, Texas, to decide Posada's fate. The case has become a major headache for George Bush, as Posada is hailed as a hero amongst the rich right-wing Castro-hating Miami Cubans who form a key component of his (and especially his brother's) base of support. However, refusal to extradite Posada will clearly make a mockery of the whole "War on Terror". Posada is a 77-year-old man who has lead a lifetime of terrorism directed against progressive movements in Latin America. The embarrassing fact that this terror was in line with US foreign policy and supported by the US government doesn't make harbouring him any less hypocritical. Join the international outrage over these double-standards and protest outside the US embassy in London on this day from 4pm to 7pm. Music, food and an open-mic, with speakers from Hands Off Venezuela, Bolivia Solidarity Campaign, Colombia Solidarity Campaign and others. Pass it on!

www.handsoffvenezuela.org
www.colombiasolidarity.org.uk
www.boliviasc.org.uk
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #72
85. A kick for Chavez
and for the solidarity links provided.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
74. Buy Citgo gas - owned by Venez. nat'l oil company, Petroleos.
:bounce:
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
10.  C.N.N.: "Chavez leads the world in Economic Sanctions against U.S."
"but first: Latest developments in the Michael Jackson case...."
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. ok... seriously:
...would it be treasonous of me to e-mail that suggestion to President Chavez?
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getmeouttahere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Everything is considered treasonous...
if it is not lock-step with BushCo, so who cares? Go for it!
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. lot's of hearts & minds around the globe probably agree with him
but American Exceptionalism states that we are above reproach.

next

peace
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. Chavez speaks the truth
makes him a hero in my book
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. "ATTACKS"?
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 08:45 AM by PSPS
Notice how the headline writer uses the word "attacks".

Maybe "Chavez criticizes US" but "Chavez attacks US"?

In the world of BushCo propaganda, even the mere criticism of Our Glorious Leader must be referred to with a word that implies viciousness -- "attack."

All the easier to villify the opponent so that he can be dispatched with impunity, I suppose.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. We'll have to go after them there before they attack us here at home
Where have I heard that before???

This is getting way too scary.
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getmeouttahere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Good point...
yet another psychological ploy from BushCo's braindead media
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Yeah. Slams, bashes, disses, all of these would be apropos. But attack? nt
Looks like fodder for the brain-damaged:

"But Venezuela ATTACKED the USA! I remember reading that somewhere!"
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
46. Xactly - I have 2 wonder....
on Sept. 12, 2001 - did their headline read - 'Saudi Arabia Attacks US'?
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humus Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
86. should have read.....
................"it's a jungle out there"

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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
24. I'm just a little skeptical of Chavez's anti-US rhetoric.
I mean, if he REALLY thought the US was trying to assassinate him, was the root of all evil, etc--would he be selling us all of his oil?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Congrats. You get the "worst non-sequitur of the month" award.
And it's still June 6.

"ALL of his oil?"
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Okay, not "all." But, it is funny that despite all of the harsh rhetoric
and dislike between him and Bush, that the free flow of oil continues. If he really wanted to stick it to the Bush admin, he could.
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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Diversifying the customer base and ending tax breaks for oil cos?
Don't those two things sound consistent with the "rhetoric"?

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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. The larger point is that one would think that Chavez and the US were
bitter enemies when they're not anything close to that.
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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. You're skeptical of whether the US is anti-Chavez?
And your evidence is that Venezuela sells oil to the US?

Hmm.

(By the way, it seems that the money Venezuela makes from selling oil on the open market to all comers is what's is allowing Chavez to speak the truth.)
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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Yeah, trying to overthrow Chavez doesn't mean we don't like him
Venezuela has to sell its oil to the U.S. by contractual obligations.

The contracts are up in 2006 from what I understand and Chavez is in the process of promising more oil exports to China and Russia, which will affect the amount available to sell to the U.S.
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Niche Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
88. And support the people who VOTED for him.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. "All of his oil"? Try "up to 60%"..........
{b]VENEZUELA: Bush's next oil war?
<http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/619/619p17.htm>

QUOTE:

Venezuela supplies up to 15% of US oil imports and the US purchases up to 60% of Venezuela's oil output. A key goal of the Chavez government has been ensuring full government control over Venezuela's oil industry in order to use its earnings to eradicate poverty. This has put Venezuela at odds with US oil corporations, and therefore at odds with the US government.

In November, Chavez announced that his government would begin to enforce the law passed in 2001 that calls for a dramatic increase in the royalties foreign corporations pay to the Venezuelan government for the extraction of oil inside Venezuela. ExxonMobil has denounced the increase and is considering mounting a legal challenge, according to a February 28 Venezuela Analysis report.

In December, Venezuela signed an agreement with China that includes plans for Venezuela to sell large amounts of oil to China. Although China does not currently have the refining capacity to deal with Venezuela's high-sulphur oil, the agreement sparked concern among US commentators about the potential for Venezuela to either cease or significantly decrease its oil sales to the US.


Any more questions?

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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. As I noted in another post, I was just noting that Chavez and the US
do an awful lot of business together despite all of that harsh rhetoric.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
62. Yes, that's because Venezuela is an actual DEMOCRACY.
Having a trade war with the US would be highly unpopular with those who would go out of business, now wouldn't it?
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. A friend's son works in the oil industry in Venezuela
and he says the Chinese are all over the place.

I think both China and Venezuela are planning for Venezuela to sell more oil to China as soon as China develops enough refining capacity to handle it.

By the way, I understand that China is also looking at oil in Africa.

I do not want to live in a world dominated by China, but I fear that Bush's policies are going to make that happen for these reasons:

(1) The U.S. has run up a huge credit card debt to .... China.

(2)We are spending billions in hopes of getting Iraq's oil, while China is spending only millions to get oil through diplomacy. Is it possible that China will bankrupt the U.S. in a race for oil the way the U.S. bankrupted Russia in the arms race?
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Bingo, that makes real sense! Now you need to tell Condi and **.
Not that they might begin to understand.


:kick: :thumbsup:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #36
57. not only possible
but entirely probable. I think I may look into a visit to Venezuela. Soon.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
73. And (3) Thanks to the NeoCons, we no longer have reliable allies....
...and we have to buy those that "support" us now.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #31
48. '...Venezuela at odds with US oil corporations,
and therefore at odds with the US government...'

Boy oh boy, lots of truth in those few words.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
41. Anti US?........suuuuuure whatever. n/t
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 11:01 AM by Guy Whitey Corngood
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aneerkoinos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
42. Geek
Chavez non esta stupido. He has explicitely said that if he's murdered, by anyone, Venezuela will immediately stop providing US oil. That way US has very good reasons not to off him, on the contrary to keep him alive.

And Venezuela is not selling all it's oil to US, but also neighbour countries and Europe, and is in the process of diversifying it's customer base (especially China).
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. Not only that, but international capital seems to like Chavez as well
Foreign investors think his government is a safe bet now.

The truth is always more complex than the soundbites.
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aneerkoinos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. Yup
Truth is very complex, personifying complex processes are among the most stupid soundbites.

Capital likes growing economies, and Venezuela has been growing very fast for couple of years. What is important is Bolivarian revolution and it's peacefull transition from capitalism to socialism, not Chavez, who is just a very usefull tool for this revolution.
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
60. Money !!!!
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
61. Exactly! It's like Halliburton doing business with Iraq or something!
You take the cake, geek. You think Chavez would last ONE minute if he started a trade war with the United States?
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liberaliraqvet26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
69. Chavez??
I have read a lot of good things about Chavez, but ive met people from Venezuela who have only bad things to say about him, and they are not right wingers. We don't get the whole truth in our media, so I try not to make opinions on things I don't know the whole story on.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
89. Uh - sure. We've heard that before.
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 11:24 PM by TankLV
From people who no longer post.

Enjoy your stay here while you can.

Maybe you'll learn something.
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doodadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
30. "democracy at risk."
Don't like that very last line. That, plus the oil situation, equals invasion by the U.S.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
52. Invasion? With what army? We are mired down in Iraq and afghanistan.


To say nothing of the more than 700 bases all over the world. The military can't meet it's recruitment needs now, how about if we invade Venezuela? Plus, have you seen the terrain of Venezuala?

Forget it. The world now knows that in spite of spending as much on defense as the rest of the world combined, we can't beat a bunch of insurgents who don't even have a government to coordinate.

We are now know as the paper tiger.
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. But don't forget Colombia next door, the #2 recipient of US for. aid
and all those guys (both military and non-) fighting the "war on drugs."
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
32. With a few substitutions:
"Venezuelan officials have said they are worried that Bush's dominance of his country's courts, the military and other state institutions, combined with his government's persecution of political opponents, puts Venezuelan democracy at risk."

Take your pick. I lean to the latter, but at my age, I have far fewer hostages to reprisal than many here.

pnorman
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getmeouttahere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #32
40. Perfect, pnorman!
once again, the astounding hypocricy of BushCo rears its ugly head!
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
87. Bush speaks to the mirror
His critisism of Chavez reeks of exactly what is wrong with him.

Makes me think that deep down B*S* knows he truly is an evil, sick, and contemptable son of a bitch.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
37. Chavez is right and I thank him from the bottom of my heart for speaking

out about the bushgang.

recall the article I posted about the new triangle of Russia, China, and India and I mentioned other triangles, well China and Venezuela are two sides of another triangle.

they all would be stupid not to protect themselves and their oil from the invading, occupying, shock and awe bushgang.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
45. and this is different from the neo-cons - HOW?
'...US officials have said they are worried that Chavez's dominance of his country's courts, the military and other state institutions, combined with his government's persecution of political opponents, puts Venezuela's democracy at risk....'

Chavez was elected and defeated the US backed referendum as well as the neo-cons attempted coup. I'll take their version of democracy over the vision currently being promoted DC criminals.
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getmeouttahere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. Damn straight, xxqqqzme!
you can bet that if BushCo thinks "democracy is at risk" it's exactly the opposite and the real deal is that the particular country in question isn't practicing unfettered capitalism and will be targeted. Will the rest of the world stand up for Venezuela???

www.handsoffvenezuela.org
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. hey getmeouttahere
I finally saw you again. Don't know if you got my reply about RAndy Moss, but I was against trading him---but, have to tell you that it's true that the difference between Moss and a dollar bill is that you can get 4 quarters out of a dollar bill. And, BTW--let's hear it for Chavez!
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
55. Nice non-alarmist headline, that.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
59. Pot meet kettle
US citizens have said they are worried that Bush's dominance of his country's courts, the military and other state institutions -- including voting mechanisms, combined with his government's persecution of political opponents, puts the USA's democracy at risk.
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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. America and the world would be better off if America didn't support
every fascist dictator and royal family willing to lick its boots.

America built itself into a global power by building a strong middle class. Why is our example not good enough for the rest of the world? I have no doubt strong middle classes around the globe would be allies of America.

It seems like it's in America's best interest if Chavez is successful.

Isn't that the lesson we've learned all over the globe? Every fascist government we've supported has turned around and bit our ass, whereas the few places we've supported policies that encouraged democracies which have served the people, we've mutually benefitted -- we've seen economies develop that have helped us get rich because everyone got rich.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #67
83. This is sound and true
"America built itself into a global power by building a strong middle class."

It's also precisely the reason the neocons do not want others enjoying too much democracy unless it's at the leisure of US control. Because once they taste of freedom and prosperity, furiners might get ideas. Their country might actually develop and become an economic or military RIVAL to the USA.

Tsk. Can't have that.

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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
64. gov't persecution of political opponents?
You mean the people who the US backed in the failed violent coup?

How can you say he persecutes political opponents when almost every public tv station is a mouthpiece for anti-Chavez propaganda?

What a bunch of assholes.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
66. good grief
"US officials have said they are worried that Chavez's dominance of his country's courts, the military and other state institutions, combined with his government's persecution of political opponents, puts Venezuela's democracy at risk."

sound like any other present-day country??????

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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
68. Does Venuzeula export its oil in dollars or euros?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
70. When he's right, he's right - and he's usually right.
NT!

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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
77. BushCo stages a coup on Venezuela and MSM calls it a "march for Democracy"
Chavez says the OAS should monitor the US and the headlines scream "ATTACK".
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
78. I Support President...Chavez!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
80. "his latest anti-US outburst"? You mean, Chavez told the truth about US!
As Bob Dylan said, it doesn't take a weatherman to tell which way the wind is blowing. It doesn't take a genius to realize that Bush is trying to turn the Earth into a slave planet, owing allegiance to the Holy American Empire.

Consider these chilling words from Bush's Main Bitch, Condi Rice:

Rice, who is chairing the session as U.S. host, said the Bush administration has a "renewed interest" in the Western Hemisphere assembly as a way to promote its global democracy agenda. It is the first time the annual meeting of ministers has taken place on U.S. soil since 1974.

<snip>

Rice said the Democratic Charter "must become the core of a principled, effective multilateralism for the Americas."

The push to strengthen the organization as a bulwark for democracy comes amid U.S. concern over governments in the region that are democratically elected but do not govern in a democratic manner.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/05/rice.oas/index.html
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OKthatsIT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
82. Dont believe the hype. VIVA CHAVEZ!
USH, HANDS OFF! LEAVE VENZUELA ALONE!
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Robworld Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
84. Has anyone here ever seen the Revolution will not be televised?
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
90. Thank you Chavez and Bernie Sanders! Social Democrats!
Edited on Tue Jun-07-05 01:14 AM by anarchy1999
Thank you. Call out the Bush Inc. Corporate Control of this nation. End the military/industrial complex that Ike E. warned us all of in his farewell address to this great once used to be nation!

Stand up, sweep house! We the people own the White House, Bush and Family. Inc. do not! It's our own American version of the Italian Mafia, anyone tired of it yet? I know I AM!

All we have to do is stand up and say NO MORE!

Send them back to Kennebunkport, send them back to Midland/Odessa, send them back to HELL!
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