Creation Controversy At The Tulsa Zoo (Elephant pic/deity offends fundies)

[rainbow4321]

http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=84540

A couple of displays at the Tulsa Zoo have angered some critics. And another that's been suggested is controversial too. Both have aspects of religion and another that's been suggested - are both creating controversy.

Over by the elephants at the Tulsa Zoo, there is a statue of an elephant called "Ganesha".For Hindu's, Ganesha is a revered deity, one of the most important in the religion. But the curator of the exhibit at the Tulsa Zoo says it's not religious, in this setting. Brett Fidler: "We exhibit it out of the religious context, strictly as a museum piece."

For Dan Hicks and John Jones, that's unbelievable. They frequent the Tulsa Zoo with their children and Jones says he doesn't want to see religious icons at the zoo. John Jones: "we need to leave it to the display of animals, and the education of children about nature." Hicks wants his religion included or the Hindu icon removed.

The critics also think one of the zoo's most visible symbols, the big globe by the entrance, evokes religion through the saying "the earth is our mother, the sky is our father". Zoo staff says it's there to add a Native American flair, but Hicks believe it's another example of openness to anything but the Christian view.

[TheDebbieDee]

1. Fundies are offended by EVERYTHING.......

[saigon68]

27. Right Wing Nut -Job Hateful Fundies

Most of the white ones would wish, the Black man would just go away or die

These are the same goof balls who Bray and wave flags when the troops go off to kill Rag Heads</sarcasm>

[Brooklyn Michael]

69. I'm officially coining a new word.....

...."Offunded": (verb, transitive) (from the root word "Fundie", a religiously ignorant person) To have one's extremely narrow, intolerant religious viewpoint damaged due to an inability to accept that you and your views are not the most important things in the universe. (See also: Offundsive)

This word may be used for free by all DU'ers, but I want a $5 royalty fee from anyone else.....

$20 from Fundies and Republicans

[fleabert]

107. I like that. nt

[Roland99]

73. I keep waiting for the day they offende themselves into oblivion

They sure give Christians a bad name, eh?

[VegasWolf]

99. Hicks, his name is speaking for itself. n/t

[havocmom]

2. So, religious icons at zoos are bad, but good in Courthouses?!?!

Oh, different religions, different icons. Sure, now it all makes sense... NOT!

[Debau2005]

5. No, no, no...

Religious icons in general are not good at the courthouse. Only THEIR religions icons are good at the courthouse.

:sarcasm:

[tx_dem41]

12. Actually, we have no idea what Mr. Hicks and Mr. Jones' views ..

are on religious symbols in the Courthouse.

[havocmom]

14. Was making a comment on the general tendency of what icons are deemed

as acceptable in the US, not an attack on a certain person.

[Tux]

31. But

The soulless animals might worship a "false god" and burn in hell for their sins. Afterall, none of those animals were married when they had sex.

[havocmom]

77. LOL Same with those heathen gods, always cavorting and such...

YeeHaw, those gods know how ta live! Once again, the sex thing? Religious Wingers hate anybody who has/enjoys sex. My response is that if their God is the all powerful boss, he must also want us to enjoy sex, or else he wouldn't have invented the orgasm. That never fails to send them off sputtering and stammering :evilgrin:

[Zhade]

79. Yeah, and some of those animals might be having GAY SEX!

Those infidels will become crispy critters!

:rofl:

Ah, biblical literalists. What idiots.

[trotsky]

3. Let me just savor the irony...

of a fundie Christian making it clear that "The Planet Earth" could never be construed as a symbol of his own religion.

[Danieljay]

8. absolutely beautifully stated....

I can't help but think of that old church hymn....

"This world is not my home"

I've always wondered what planet these people were actually from.

[heidler1]

30. The not my home idea plus the dominion over earth idea gives

Christians tacit approval to destroy the environment.

[blindpig]

50. fucking Manicheans

this "heavenly reward" bs is at the heart of so much that plagues us. Old Mani should be happy, flayed skin and all, he has a 1000 times more followers than he had in old Persia.

[Danieljay]

75. "I'm Just-a-passing through...My treasures are laid up...

somewhere beyond the blue, the angels beckon me through heavens open door, cause I don't feel at home in this world...anymore.

I'm not sure any fundie has ever felt at home on this planet. Who gives a damn about this planet anyway when the rewards are somewhere out "there".

ughhhh

[FlaGranny]

137. Do they not believe God created the earth?

Why do they think it is acceptable to trash God's creation?

[OldCurmudgeon]

26. globe is not acceptable to fundies

Because they believe the earth is FLAT!

Doesn't the bible say something about "the four corners" of the earth?
Hmmm...yes: "and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

And (of course) it must be literally true in every way. Where are those four corners, exactly?

[Danmel]

49. I don't know where the four corners of the earth are

But my Hat It Has Three Corners,
Three Corners Has My Hat.

Don't these people have anything better to worry about?

[Art_from_Ark]

104. The four corners would be

the place where Colorado, Utah, New Mexico and Arizona meet, of course :+

[Danmel]

108. I've been there

I have a picture of myself ( at 14) at that spot!

These flat earthers are really starting to get on my nerves.

[Art_from_Ark]

142. Four Corners is a wonderful place

Once the tourists have gone, it can become quite a spiritual experience.

That's one of the things I miss most about living overseas-- not having any opportunities to visit places like that.

On the plus side, though, I can talk about real science, and no one drags their holy book into the discussion

[Debau2005]

4. Whatever....

Well tell Dan Hicks and John Jones to frequent some where else. I am SO VERY tired of having conservative religion rammed down my throat. If I find something offensive I have the common sense to just ignore it!

[rainbow4321]

25. More on Hicks..long history of targeting the zoo

http://www.skepticfiles.org/misc3/tulsaicr.htm

Early in 1995, a private citizen (and member of Tulsa Zoo
Friends) by the name of Dan Hicks approached the Zoo staff with
requests that some Zoo signage be modified. He stated that he
was offended by some text, and confounded by that fact that said
text contradicted beliefs that he had instilled in his child at
home. He specified (a) graphic reference to a common ancestor
for chimps and man; (b) 'straight-line evolution' as represented
by Equus models in one of our displays; (c) another display's
reference to the age of the Cosmos. He offered to replace some
of the signage at his own expense, as well to provide a
'disclaimer' attesting to the 'non-factual' nature of
evolutionary 'theories'. He was thanked for his interest and
input, assured that some thought woul dbe given to his comments
about horse evolution, and told that his offer to provide new
signage at his own expense would not be necessary.

During the next six months, Dan frequently wrote to me and others
with the same basic requests. He appealed to ZooFriends'
Executive Director and President, the Director of the Parks and
Recreation Department, the Chairman of the Park Board, City
Council persons, and the Mayor of Tulsa. Many letters of protest
were received from private citizens; most of these were based
on a form letter, and many seemed to be affiliated with
fundamentalist churches in our area. Letters were written to the
editors of local newspapers as well. Petitions were submitted
with up to 2,000 signatures; to my knoweldge, these were not
prepared or conducted by an independent agency. Our City's
population is about 380,000; the metropolitan area is 745,000,
and I am unaware of a 'scientifically conducted poll'
representing two-thirds of either population number.

In September, City and PArk officials met with Dan Hicks and his
associate to discuss their concerns. Although we did not feel
it was appropriate to honor all of his requests, we did agree
to the following: (a) to place a sign at the Zoo's entry which
states, 'There are many views on the origin of biological species
and their behaviors. The information that accompanies our
displays is based on compelling evidence of the natural sciences.
Because scientific knowledge is subject to change, these displays
may be revised as new informatin becomes available.' (b) to
reword one line of signage from our chimp exhibit from
'Scientific blood tests show that chimpanzees are man's closest
biological relative, branching off from a common ancestor
about 6 million years ago' to 'Scientific blood tests, including
DNA analysis, show a biological similarity between chimps and
people'. (c) to modify the exhibit on Equus ancestry to more
completely reflect current sicentiifc thought, using the writings
of Dr. Bruce McFadden.

Although Mr Hicks volunteered to work with us on copy for the
latter modification, we declined his offer. The general tone
of our meeting expressed a need for sensitivity to the beliefs
of different groups, but confirmed that established scientific
principles could not be ignored or watered-down."

David G. Zucconi, Director
Tulsa Zoo and Living Museum

[Tux]

33. My disclaimer sign

"Scientific evidence, theories, and research are views different from those of fundamentalists. They may offend the fundamentalists which will cause a howling noise from them which proves our common ancestry with apes."

[hatrack]

37. So in other words, the zoo kow-towed to a rabid fundie with form letters

How inclusive and sensitive of them!

I don't leave Darwin flyers or copies of The Descent Of Man in your churches. Do me the courtesy of leaving your Bronze Age belief systems out of my zoos and museums.

[Bridget Burke]

43. A form letter is not a "kow-tow"

It's a brush off.

[hatrack]

44. But posting signs which weaken the scientific message of the zoo is

Perhaps they could have posted signs saying "Life is very, very complicated" or "There are many, many different kinds of animals, and since we don't understand every single twist and turn of every single stage of the process over tens of millions of years, we don't really know how it happened."

[Zhade]

82. I don't see it as weakening the message.

If anything, it seems to bolster it.

[Zhade]

81. It doesn't appear the zoo caved.

Their "a" revision is essentially true, and gives no credence to any religious creation myth at all, and their "b" revision flips the bird to the literal creationist idiots by adding "DNA analysis" to the sentence.

I think the zoo actually played these dumb saps pretty well!

[Norquist Nemesis]

41. I have a solution for Mr. Hicks

Wear a cross.

[tanyev]

6. No problem.

The zoo could invite Mr. Hicks and Mr. Jones into the boa constrictor cage to personally wrestle with their religion's depiction of Satan. Sell tickets!

[LiberalFighter]

94. Since Satan was one of the fallen angels

And Satan was a snake

Wouldn't all snakes be related to man?

[Wilber_Stool]

7. I suppose they could put

a crucifix in the monkey house. But they'd probably complain about that too.

[Danieljay]

9. the monkeys could sit on it and fling poop on the non believers...eom

[Benhurst]

10. Cutting-edge Bronze Age thoughts for Stone Age minds.

:puke:

[OKNancy]

11. The Tulsa Zoo spokesman was on local TV last night

I was very happy to hear these words.( paraphrased) "There is no scientific evidence for any of the ideas put forth by xxxxx, we are a scientific organization and we believe in science"

[rainbow4321]

23. The Hicks guy has been pissed since the Gay Day at the zoo was announced

He may have a fundie chip on his shoulder when it comes to the zoo.
Between the zoo not backing down for the Gay Day and now this elephant story, I may have to either make a zoo donation or buy myself a zoo membership to use when I visit my relatives in Tulsa...

http://www.1170kfaq.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=5&num=1180


Gay Day at the Zoo

TULSA (KFAQ) - Some Tulsa parents say they are concerned about plans for a so-called "Gay Day" at the Tulsa Zoo. As part of Gay Pride Week, PFLAG officials say they are urging members to attend the zoo on June 4th.

Dan Hicks is one of the parents voicing concern about the day. Hicks says "it's not something I want my children to see."

Zoo officials say they are not organizing the event, but welcome anyone to attend the zoo.

[UncleSepp]

83. If it's not something he wants his children to see...

How about "don't bring your kids to the zoo that day" ?

Why does this not occur to these people??

[Danieljay]

87. If their belief in God is based on faith

and faith is something discerned within the heart...then why does there need to be any icon of a Christian God anywhere? After all, if God is indeed everywhere present...there is no place where God is not. If one indeed truly has faith....they need not a symbol to recognized God's presence anywhere.

[edhopper]

13. As an atheist

I am deeply offended by any mention of God or Jesus. Is anyone concerned abou my being offended?

[ET Awful]

16. Hell no you godless heathen!

:evilgrin:

[musette_sf]

32. as a Dan Hicks & The Hot Licks fan

I am deeply offended by some @sshat with the same name who is giving Dan Hickses everywhere a bad name!!!

[Tux]

36. Depends

If it violates your freedom of religion, yes.

If it is trival like God on our money, no.

Republicans really do worship money. Why else label money "God"?

[Zhade]

84. I don't see the money issue as trivial.

I am forced to spend money to survive. Whenever I use federally-printed (printing paid for with the aid of my atheist tax dollars) currency, it expresses something I do not agree with, and every transaction further establishes religion.

It's not a small matter to me.

[Tux]

90. Your atheist tax money

Is also wasted on faith-based welfare and a lame pres. I prefer our real national motto over "In God We Trust" since it came in the 50's when evangelicals wanted to start plans for a theocracy. We help beat tyranny and it starts here. Ironic.

[Zhade]

91. Tell me about it! It's ALL bullshit.

NT!

[ET Awful]

15. Fine, we'll take down the statue of Ganesha and put up one of Kali

Human sacrifices are to commence immediately.

:evilgrin:

[NuttyFluffers]

93. can we sacrifice WASP female virgins? preferrably blondes in nighties?

:evilgrin:

[Larkspur]

17. The Christian god is represented at the Tulsa Zoo -- no icon

The Christian god has no form, thus no icon.

[Zhade]

86. That's an interesting point.

Obviously, the lack of evidence for creationism or gods means I don't have this belief, but if fundies think their god literally created the world, isn't a zoo kind of a living exhibit of their belief?

I'd ask why they couldn't just enjoy what they see as their god's creation, but this is always about them trying to force others to accept the (unproven, unsupported-except-by-a-mythical-book) "fact" of creation.

[PunkPop]

18. Excuse Me????

"Zoo staff says it's there to add a Native American flair, but Hicks believe it's another example of openness to anything but the Christian view."

Is it not enough that their megachurches are ubiquitous on our landscape, their "God" is in our pledge of allegiance and on our money, their "President" is stinking up our White House, their "preachers" are all over our tv and their "Christian view" permeates so many aspects of civic life in America?

I FREAKING DESPISE these fundie assholes!!!!!!

[Gman]

19. Another skrimish occurs in the Culture Wars

Who will win?

[Tesha]

21. The media and the Republicans will win. (NT)

[aden_nak]

20. To be fair, they should put up statues of all the Christian Elephant Gods.

[prodigal_green]

29. LOL

Maybe they can keep the bull, the lion, the eagle and a man at each of the four compass directions to symbolize the apocalypse. Or maybe they should just have a recreation of Noah's ark.

[KittyWampus]

61. That's A Good Idea Though The Bull, Lion, Eagle & Angel Symbolize

Taurus, Leo, Scorpio & Aquarius in Esoteric Judaism/Christianity. Hence their reference & meaning in Revelations.

Bet Hicks has no idea that Christianity is deeply ingrained with Astrological symbolism.

[prodigal_green]

76. or that it was just one of hundreds of

Egyptian mystery cults flourishing at the time of Roman occupation.

There is a lot they don't know about Christianity. One of my best friends is a linguistics professor and he studies English morphology, particularly from around the time the King James Bible was written. He gets no end of glee at the gross misreading of the text, from a simple linguistics point of view, much less theological.

[Inland]

22. Whatever. Elephants will be extinct in a couple of years anyway.

Gonna be moot.

[blindpig]

51. only if we let it happen

and if we do then damn us all.

[TlalocW]

24. I live in Tulsa, and these guys missed a big one

I think in the rainforest section there are some representations of Aztec deities - including my namesake, Tlaloc, the god of rain and wind.

TlalocW

[Karmageddon]

28. I'm all for anything that offends the fundies.

Perhaps we should take up a collection for an Egyptian Cat-god statue for the lion house?

[Bridget Burke]

47. The Egyptians had two (2) Godesses represented as lionesses!

Sekhmet & Tefnut:

Many Egyptian deities had animal forms. Searching world religions would find many others. And some Christian saints had links to animals--St Jerome befriended a lion by removing a thorn from his paw. And St Francis tamed a wolf--among his many animal pals.



Of course, this nut-case probably disapproves of all that Catholic stuff as well.

[Solon]

144. Don't Forget Bastet!!!

Bast in another form. Though she is more for the small cats. Perfect for the African Wild Cat exhibit, progenator of domestic cats.

[Zhade]

88. Welcome to DU! Dig the screen name.

NT!

[noonwitch]

34. So, does he want a Noah's Ark exhibit-Fisher Price makes a cute one

For about $20.

[sakabatou]

35. "If it's not for me, it must be destroyed."

Stupid greedy fundies...

[Lorien]

39. Boy, does that ever sum up their mindset!

"openness to anything other than a Christian view"...apparently that one is unaware that America was founded on the concept of religious freedom.

[NNguyenMD]

38. I am really just fed up with hypersensitive fundies...they need to face

consequences when they waste the public's time filing ridiculous complaints like this.

I say give officials at schools, parks, zoos, museums the power to counter sue people who file frivilous complaints for huge sums of money. Thats right, we ought to have a legal open season on groups like Focus on the Family, or one of those retarded Values Research Councils who get offended by anything thats not Christian or gives them a hard on. I want to bankrupt these motherfuckers for everything that they're worth.

[Xithras]

54. I can't believe the hypocrisy in this thread. They SHOULD be removed.

How would you all be reacting if the zoo had placed a 7 foot cross in front of their gates, or emblazoned the quote "And God said, Let The Land Produce Living Creatures..." across the top of their nature display?

Religion is religion is religion, and NONE of it has any place on public property...I don't care if it's Christian, Muslim, Native American, Hindu, or Aztec.

[MisterP]

56. yes, but if there was an orangutan called Moses or Arimathea the Swan,

we wouldn't mind

[KittyWampus]

62. A Cross Would Not Relate To Any Animals. A Reference To Jonah In

an aquarium wouldn't bother me IF OTHER RELIGIONS WERE DEPICTED AS WELL.

Perhaps the zoo could have a reference to the tribe of Judah by the lions or something else like that.

[havocmom]

85. Zoo is open to the public, but is it acutally a wholely public funded

operation or is it privately funded and funded by admissions? THERE is a difference. Something that is open to the public is not always a publicly owned place.

A shopping center is open to the public, however, you may not insist on certain Consitituional rights being enforced there. Why? Because it is NOT public property and the property owner can set their own rules.

Have not found if the Tulsa Zoo is a part of the government of that area, but most zoos are not. If this is true of the Tulas Zoo also, they can put up what they damn well please.

Open to public is NOT the same as being a government installation like, oh, say a courthouse.

[kwolf68]

40. DIMWITS

If these morons really believed in Creation then the mere existence of any animal in a zoo (especially for protection of endangered species) would be religious in nature.

"This is God's Work...the plants and animals...and we are trying to SAVE the work of God."

This is a real pickle for fundies...the more they convince themselves that all animal life came from the work of God then they will have to reject policies that destroy this same life, policies ALWAYS promoted by Republicans.

As someone who believes in evolution, I can see a real positive outcome of creationism too, to challenge these people to help us protect the earth.

[deacon2]

42. Jesus rode elephants too you know...

It's right there in First Circus Clownians, just after the part about feeding the Flock of Seagulls with five peanuts and a stale piece of bread. These people are 100 percent certifiable. If an inclusive display reflecting more than one cultural orientation offends them - GOOD! I derive great pleasure from their discomfort and unhappiness. A sin, I'm certain, but it's all I have these days to warm my heart.

[Deja Q]

45. I agree. Give them all equal time for forget them all

I say the latter. Relgion and money have only hurt ourselves as a species.

[u2spirit]

46. I was born, raised and still live in Tulsa

And I want the hell out. I am sick and tired of the utter stupidity of even smart people that live here, including relatives. Is there any friendly DU'er living on the Oregon coast with a room for let?

[jobycom]

48. When are they going to raise Hell over the Washington Monument?

The obelisk was an ancient Egyptian religious symbol, and a phallic symbol to boot.

I guess soon Hispanic males named Jesus will have to change their names to get passports and drivers licenses.

I wish I was a fundie. Then I could convert, and know I had done at least one thing good for the world.

[killbotfactory]

52. go blow up an ancient bhudda statue

it will make you feel better

[Behind the Aegis]

53. Amazing

This makes me so mad. I go to the Tulsa Zoo often, and didn't know this was going on. I wish I could show the offending pics (I lost several in a computer crash), but I do have a pic of the "Native American" display. :eyes: The words are inscribed on the globe in white.

People like these make me so damn mad!



Native American "display" at the Tulsa Zoo.

[katamaran]

105. Hey...we have one of those in VA

The Virginia Zoo in Norfolk has one of those giant earth water/stone sculptures too...minus the writing.

/Useless info, just chatty.

[rainbow4321]

55. UPDATE:Park Board passes new ( biblical account) exhibit at the Tulsa zoo

Just found from their meeting today:

http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=84592

The debate over religion at the Tulsa Zoo. The Tulsa Parks Board discussed a controversial plan Tuesday morning to install an exhibit chronicling the biblical account of creation.

News on 6 reporter Emory Bryan was at the meeting and says a new exhibit will go up at the Tulsa Zoo. It won the approval of the Parks Board, but not before several hours of debate over the philosophy of evolution and creation.

Before a packed meeting of the Parks Board, dozens of people spoke for and against including any new religious material at the Tulsa Zoo. The people backing the new exhibit pointed to several religious icons already at the zoo - they claim the door is already opened to religious exhibits. Tulsa mayor Bill LaFortune called it an issue of fairness to also display the Christian viewpoint of creation.

The man who started the effort, Dan Hicks, was happy with the decision - even though it means several other accounts of creation, from other religions, will go up as well.

[Xithras]

58. And this is WHY the Hindu and Native American exhibits should be removed.

Someone thought it would be cool to have a Native American spiritual reference on a statue, and as a result every visitor to this zoo is now going to have to deal with a cross and a Christian/Creationist exhibit every time they visit. Open the door to one, and you'll have to open the door to all.

[KittyWampus]

63. So? What A Great Way To Embrace Diversity.

[mitchum]

102. I'm all for feeding these fundy nutjobs to the lions

They claim to be traditional christians. Well, it's time for them to shut up or put up.

[pop goes the weasel]

60. that may be a good compromise

But there needs to be a central exibit explaining evolution as the bedrock of biology. The other religious items weren't aimed at undermining science, the way that teaching creationism does.

[FlaGranny]

138. That's totally stupid.

Creationism is the fundamentalist view of creation - NOT the Christian view.

[pop goes the weasel]

57. perfectly reasonable

and an obvious oversight on the part of the zoo in their homage to world mythologies. They should put in a statue of the Revelations lamb, complete with seven eyes and seven horns. At the petting zoo.

[prodigal_green]

80. heck, with bioengineering

they could produce a live one!!

[BattyDem]

59. "the big globe by the entrance, evokes religion"

So now the Earth is considered to be a religious display that's offensive to Fundies??? In that case, feel free to find another planet! :eyes:

Jones says he doesn't want to see religious icons at the zoo. John Jones: "we need to leave it to the display of animals, and the education of children about nature."

Well ... now you know how the rest of us feel about having the 10 Commandments shoved in our faces all the time! :mad:

[Behind the Aegis]

65. See post #53

That is a recent pic of the "offending" display. The statue of Ganesha has a little plaque that explains gods in Hindu mythology (?) have many animal/human dieties.

[BattyDem]

67. Ah ... OK

at least that makes a little more sense. It sounded like it was just a normal globe. :-)

[Behind the Aegis]

68. It is very beautiful

It looks like it is floating on air and it is bathed in water. It is really quite nice.

[BattyDem]

71. You're right ... it is beautiful

But I don't see a religious symbol - I see our planet with an artistic, "Native American" flair. :shrug: That's probably because I'm not very familiar with their religious beliefs.

[Behind the Aegis]

72. I don't either.

That is why I was surprised when I read it was some sort of religious display. Considering that many NA religions are earth-based, the man-made swamp garden (I have pics of that too) would be a religious display!

Fundies are never happiest as when making others unhappy.

[rainbow4321]

92. This article has a pic of the elephant

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0605/234149.html

[Terran]

64. These guys need to be slapped.

HARD.

[Lowell]

66. If these Hicks hate the zoo so much

why do they keep going back? I think they spend entirely too much time at the zoo, of course then maybe that is where the day care is for their Neanderthal children.

[ima_sinnic]

70. "Hicks" is SUCH an appropriate name for them!

... who the %#*(& cares if they have a statue of an elephant labeled "Ganesha"?

I find that highly refreshing in "Jesusland."

[KansDem]

74. Haven't met a Fundie yet who wouldn't bitch about the rope their hung with

Some people just aren't happy unless they're miserable. :eyes:

[Zhade]

78. Awww, poor "persecuted" tyrannical majority.

Cry me a fucking river, assholes. When YOU can't run for office because of your lack of belief in gods, we can talk.

[geniph]

89. How dare there be other beliefs!

We demand to never be exposed to anyone else's ideas!

:sarcasm:

"I'm a victim, I'm a poor oppressed victim! Pay no attention to the fact that we frigging RUN everything, I'm an oppressed victim because I'm not allowed to inflict my Neanderthal views on every person I encounter!"

Clue bus coming through for the fundie fruitbats - it's not all about YOU! Everything is not all about YOU! Get OVER yourselves!

[hatrack]

95. Are there any elephant-headed Christian gods or saints?

Didn't think so . . .

[IndianaGreen]

96. Let's get a statue of a jackass and call it Jesus!

Will that satisfy the fundies?

[0007]

97. Hanuman of the Ramayana could be junior, but of course that

would be an insult to the great monkey devotee.

[rexcat]

98. Just more stupidity.

Seems to be a lot of it going around.

[foo_bar]

100. deja vu

Last week I found an "organic" strawberry that looked just like Ganesha/G'nesh:



I ended up eating it, no karmic side effects thusfar.

[mitchum]

101. Can't they just add a fleeced sheep in order to keep the christians happy?

Or maybe a gull?

[kodi]

103. must be a pretty weak god if it needs humans to protect it.

.

[katamaran]

106. Just tell them it's a GOP elephant....

Just tell them it's a GOP elephant, and maybe they'll go away. Of course we'll have to request a statue of a kicking donkey, preferably with hooves facing Ganesh, to make the whole thing fair and balanced. Equal time and all.

Where is my donkey god statue?

[damntexdem]

109. When I lived in Wichita and the anti-choice folks were in town ...

some of them demanded that a prominent statue, Keeper of the Plains (by an Indian artist, standing on the land of an Indian center) be taken down because it was 'non-Christian.'

[leesa]

110. Control freaks these Fundies. Very, very selfish people.

[IChing]

111. Biblical Account of Creation Displayed (Zoo creationist wonTulsa)

TULSA, Okla. (AP) -- The Tulsa Zoo will add a display featuring the biblical account of creation following complaints to a city board about other displays with religious significance, including a Hindu elephant statue.

The Tulsa Park and Recreation Board voted 3-1 on Tuesday in favor of a display depicting God's creation of the world in six days and his rest on the seventh, as told in Genesis, the first book of the Bible.

The vote came after more than two hours of public comment from a standing-room-only crowd.

Zoo employees, religious leaders and others spoke in opposition, saying religion shouldn't be part of the taxpayer-funded scientific institution.>>>snip

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/Z/ZOO_DISPLAY?SITE=MNMAN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-06-08-13-15-14

[NAO]

112. In Genesis Creation Account, plants are created BEFORE the Sun!

How "intelligent" is THAT design? How could plants survive without sunlight?

Some Mistakes of Moses by Robert Ingersoll
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/some_mistakes_of_moses.html

[rocktivity]

113. JUST the biblical account?

What about OTHER religions? Either do all of them or do none.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Lautremont]

115. They are doing them all, apparently,

but that's fine with the fundie wingnut who spearheaded the whole thing, beaing as he's so confident people will naturally recognize the Genesis account as "the truth".

My head hurts when I hear stuff like this.

[onager]

116. That "omnipotent" god-thingy sure is a big wuss

Couldn't an all-powerful deity issue Its own instructions for a display on how It created the world?

Why does It always have to rely on crybaby fundie asshats, thieving televangelists, and mendacious hack politicians to interpret its oh-so-Divine Will?

[hatrack]

114. Who was posting yesterday that the zoo "hadn't caved"?

Guess again.

[OKNancy]

119. That may have been me

as of yesterday, the zoo folks said NO. They still haven't "caved" actually. It was not the zoo employees who did this, but the bureaucrats on the Park Board. If the zoo staff have anything to say about it, it's going to take a long time getting this thing done, and if it is, I bet it's tucked away in a corner.

I may not see any of this...my husband is so furious, he wants to move to France.

[teenagebambam]

126. Can I go too?

I don't speak French, but I can dust and vacuum like nobody's business.

[BiggJawn]

117. Well, it *IS* Tulsa, after all....

The Zoo Director probably went "Oh? Genesis isn't there? Well, get that fixed, right NOW! Call over to ORU and see if they can help. Maybe call Billy-Joe and Sharon, too!"

Tulsa is a beautiful city, even if it IS infested with thumpers...

[OKNancy]

123. The zoo director had nothing to do with it

Lots of good people in Tulsa too.

http://www.tohr.org/dc2005.html

[BiggJawn]

140. Sorry, misunderstood.

The Mayor must have SOME power, then...

[rainbow4321]

135. The zoo people are NOT happy w/ the decision

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/060805dnnatzoo.2f4647b62.html

<snip>

But those who favored the creationist exhibit, including Mayor Bill LaFortune, argued that the zoo already displayed religious items, including the statue of the Hindu god, Ganesh, outside the elephant exhibit and a marble globe inscribed with an American Indian saying: “The earth is our mother. The sky is our father.”


Tulsa Zoo exhibit curator Kathleen Buck-Miser estimated it would take about six months to research and organize the exhibit. She expressed qualms about the zoo delving into theological debate.

“I'm afraid we are going in the wrong direction,” she said. Board member Dale McNamara, who voted against the proposal, agreed. “I do not like the idea of scripture at the zoo,” she said.

Zoo officials had argued that the zoo does not advocate religion and that displays like the elephant statue are meant to show the animal's image among cultures. The same exhibit includes the Republican Party's elephant symbol.
------------------------------------

And someone spoke with the zoo's curator..they feel blindsided by the Tulsa mayor who told the zoo employees to NOT show up for the public hearing..see this DU link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3813252&mesg_id=3813252

----------
Zoo is asking for snail mail..from a DU link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3813869&mesg_id=3813869

Tulsa Park Board
1710 Charles Page Blvd.
Tulsa, OK 74129

[IChing]

118. 50 different signs around one animal I can see it now, but not

the poor creature.

"I see this as a big victory," said Dan Hicks, the Tulsa resident who approached the zoo with the idea. "It's a matter of fairness. To not include the creationist view would be discrimination."

Hundreds of people signed a petition supporting the exhibit.

The new display will include a disclaimer that says it represents one view. City attorneys also advised it be placed alongside other cultures' views of creation."

[nickinSTL]

121. "Other cultures' views of creation"

I should petition them to include the Norse creation myth.

I'm sure that'd go over well.

[IChing]

124. Yes all should be posted

Aborigine, Multiple African ideas, All native north and South American cultures, etc.

now where is the creature?

[ovidsen]

129. With all those "creation" exhibits

There won't be room for the zoo!

[TheFarseer]

127. This is just silly

I thought the point of the zoo was to teach people about animals and to learn respect and appreciation for them. I guess now the point of the zoo is to learn about Christianity! Wow, the zoo sure has changed

[nickinSTL]

120. I see the zoo has AZA accreditation

The AZA should threaten to pull accreditation if they don't remove the creationist *.

It is completely against scientific reason (and science is one of the reasons that zoos exist) as well being unconstitutional if the zoo is taxpayer-supported.

[slackmaster]

122. Those twits are trying to run us back into the Middle Ages

That we would be, in the 21st Century, discussing Biblical creation in public forums other than as mythology boggles my mind.

I admit it, I am boggled.

[jsw_81]

125. I'm usually strict on church/state stuff...

But I support this because it rightfully portrays the Genesis story as MYTH alongside other myths rather than placing it above all the others as "truth."

[TahitiNut]

128. Why don't they try to build an ark?

Let's see these fundies put their money where their mouth is: build an ark that can hold and feed EVERY animal in the Tulsa zoo with space left over for all the animals that the Tulsa Zoo doesn't exhibit. After all, if Noah could do it on his own, why can't all the fundies in Tulsa???

:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[hunter]

131. Somewhere in Tulsa a two-bit garden troll is pretending to be God.

That's the only explanation I've ever heard that makes any sense.

Heh, heh, little boy, wanna see me pull an elephant out of my pants?

The lovely thing about Creation is that it is all self-documenting. You dig through the rocks and you find fossil people, fossil dinosaurs, and fossil Precambrian squirmy things. The real God writes some very tight code. You work through it long enough and you begin to catch glimpses of how this Universe is all put together.

Evolution is a fact, whether or not you believe a God writes this creation.

It's a very nice metaphor to say God made you in his own image out of clay. But to actually believe that a big old guy with a deep voice and a grey beard went down to the river, dug up some clay, made a little guy out of it, "breathed life" into his creation and called it Adam, well that is to deny all the evidence that this Creation is much, much more than that.

I really want to know what sort of mind truly understands something like quantum physics. Any God who would create something like that is Truly Awesome.

The garden troll god is clearly an imposter. As was said in the movie Time Bandits, "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

[rainbow4321]

133. The zoo's curator asks for HELP...feels they were "blindsided" by city

See this DU link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3813252&mesg_id=3813252

I just got off the phone with the exhibits curator of the Tulsa Zoo. She called me back after I had emailed her asking her what's going to happen now that the Tulsa Parks Commission has bowed to some fundy nutjob to put up a creationist viewpoint exhibit.

She said that what we need to do is flood the mayor's office and the Parks Commission with emails and phone calls about this. This was pretty much a one-sided argument due to the AM radio stations, fundy churches, and Mayor Bill LaFortune blind-siding everyone (LaFortune told the zoo staff not to show up at the meeting last night that "discussed" the proposed exhibit).


http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Contact+Us/

[symbolman]

147. Let's get to work people

I am personally going to post this everywhere, send this to KOS, Bartcop, Buzzflash, etc..

get the word out, we need 100,000 phone calls and email to the Mayor - Bartcop is from OK and I'm sure he's going to be pissed about this one..

It's up to us, we need to pound these creeps with media, mail, phones, etc..

[Judi Lynn]

130. They should place a permanent copy of "The Night Before Christmas"

by the reindeer exhibit, with all verses relating to reindeers appearing in red script.

If it's written that they can fly, by Jupiter, it's only right that the public is educated on this point. We're not primitives, after all!

Anything which is written anywhere is the absolute truth. Especially if someone has said so.

[maxrandb]

132. Was it on the 4TH or 5TH Day that

God created Idiots? I would also like to know on what day God created the dinosaurs, and why there is no mention of them in the bible?? These were some pretty huge animals. You'd think someone may have noticed one or two running around.

Since dinosaurs are now extinct, did they have a falling out with the big guy? Is that what is going to happen to humans when God gets pissed enough?

I one way, this could be a great thing. Thank you "fundies". You've done what science never could. You've put the Genesis story of creation into the same category as these stories below. Congratulations. Now we can all tell our kids that the story in Genesis is about as believable as the following:

From ancient Greece: "CHAOS - in one ancient Greek myth of creation, the dark, silent abyss from which all things came into existence. According to the Theogony of Hesiod, Chaos generated the solid mass of Earth, from which arose the starry, cloud-filled Heaven. Mother Earth and Father Heaven, personified respectively as Gaea and her offspring Uranus , were the parents of the Titans. In a later theory, Chaos is the formless matter from which the cosmos, or harmonious order, was created."

From ancient China: Pan Gu took an ax to break forth from his confinement in a cosmic egg. When he died he became the wind, mountains, land, and rushing waters.

You've done more to advance science than you could ever know, and I, for one, am eternally grateful.

[HR_Pufnstuf]

134. If was the wise men riding camels, it would be cool.

I hereby demand separation of Church and Zoo.

;)

[Rex]

136. He's right, they need to include the narrow minded, assholish,

puritanical flavor of 'religion' Dan & John practice in their mom's basement! What could be displayed to represent these two shitheads? How bout another type of elephant?

[yellowcanine]

139. "Mother Earth" is offensive now? How PC of Mr. Hicks. I am tired of

the fundies taking offense at everything that might smack of a different culture or religion. So exercise your right of free choice and don't visit the zoo, Mr. Hicks. The rest of us think that adding cultural references makes the experience a richer one. I feel sorry for your kids and get ready for one of them to come home someday sporting a tongue stud.

[PassingFair]

141. Hooray!

So when does the "In Ganesha We Trust" QUARTER come out! I'm overjoyed! I want to collect all the whole set!

[Dukkha]

143. Why can't they just SHUT THE FUCK UP!

They can't force their cult in schools so now their trying zoos.

They evil scumbags need to be silened once and for all!

[Disturbed]

145. Freakin' ChristoFascists are trying to

force Amerika to cater to their brand of religion. Appeasing them is the wrong tactic.

[symbolman]

146. We need to demand

that SATAN be represented as well..

Time to go get the Satanists involved, this could be fun :)

or don't THEY have equal rights?

I think Takebackthemedia.com will do this on our radio show and alert the masses to call the mayor, etc

this is total bullshit.

On edit: Maybe if one of their kids get cancer or some genetic disease the doctor can offer to bleed them or put leaches on them to cure them. (not that any decent doctor would do such a thing, but I bet if it was offered they might be willing to recant their creator in a heartbeat..)

[Mythsaje]

148. Goes along

with what I've always said. They want "special rights." Their religion, not anyone else's.

Now THAT'S a special right!

[MoonGod]

149. "Omar considers it a miracle that the zoo survived the Taliban."

"...The Taliban's minister of justice demanded to know which law of Islam sanctioned the keeping of animals. Unless Omar could cite the proper text, the animals would be set free.

"Omar went to the University of Kabul's zoology department. They had no opinion. Finally, the theology department certified that the Prophet Mohammed kept house pets."

http://www.lightwatcher.com/animaltalk/kabuls_zoos.html

[Kerrytravelers]

150. Ok, put a pic of * holding a cross by the toilets...

he does peddle the shit, doesn't he?